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strange you say that because the victorian crime statistics show crime to have actually gone down 4% last year and have been the lowest for 10 years ?? so something doesnt add up .... i would say the greatest influence to crime rate in Australia is the rise of the ice epedemic with petty crime to get cash for a hit going up ... if Crime is the real concern then we maybe need to not look so hard at the low hanging fruit of the scary black man but maybe take a crack at the drug dealers and manufacturers ??
Thanks for mentioning the statistics that largely consist of property and deception crimes.

The crimes that concern me the most, in the area's close to where i live, are the crimes where a group of people have kicked in the doors of homes while the occupants are in them. Bashing them and taking keys then cars. Random innocent targets ( as opposed to crime associates or similar ).

I would put it forward that this type of crime was pretty rare a few years back. I AM old enough to know it was.
The nature of the crime means that there is a description of the attackers.
The description is NOT an Irish guy who has been here since he was born.

Apparently i sound like a middle aged angry white man.
Some biased opinions and bigotry are clearly tolerated on this thread while using the same card back on others who have a differing opinion.

Its quite common in places overseas that the middle and upper class live in gated communities or secure apartments while the rest are left to rough it. That doesn't mean its a good thing and we should aspire to it.
 

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st_trav_ofWA

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Wasn't it you that started this a few days go by asking is there a problem with African gangs around StKilda ?
yes i did and to that point im still none the wiser as to if it really is an issue there or not .. from what i can see from the locals there is not much changing in the area in regards to crime
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Bloody hell, so much for not wanting to kick the hornets nest.

When elements of the young generation get their hands on the power and money they will prove to be equally corruptible.
perhaps .... but you gotta have faith ... honestly i think my generation will be skipped over as the boomers hang on for even longer but looking at the way the generation below me are i do have a lot of hope provided of course we dont corrupt them
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Thanks for mentioning the statistics that largely consist of property and deception crimes.

The crimes that concern me the most, in the area's close to where i live, are the crimes where a group of people have kicked in the doors of homes while the occupants are in them. Bashing them and taking keys then cars. Random innocent targets ( as opposed to crime associates or similar ).

I would put it forward that this type of crime was pretty rare a few years back. I AM old enough to know it was.
The nature of the crime means that there is a description of the attackers.
The description is NOT an Irish guy who has been here since he was born.

Apparently i sound like a middle aged angry white man.
Some biased opinions and bigotry are clearly tolerated on this thread while using the same card back on others who have a differing opinion.

Its quite common in places overseas that the middle and upper class live in gated communities or secure apartments while the rest are left to rough it. That doesn't mean its a good thing and we should aspire to it.
what the heck are you on about ?
history will show there will always be criminals - as long as there is the haves and the have nots there will be crime , policing is not an at risk profession there will always be criminals if we stop african imigration compleatly we will still have crime ...
the funny thing about you people who yearn about the "good old days" is you have really short memories maybe Drake with his copper experiance can share with you the violent crimes he saw in your so called good old days im sure there were pleanty that happened but in that time there was no money to be made by reporting on these crimes, there was no cash for clicks on online stories about heated topics in those days so i dont think the crime has increased i think the reporting on crime has increased ...
 

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I’m sure that came and went the same way as the Y2K bug.

I was really interested in neural networks in that podcast, and how various alogarithms can achieve tasks to a very high level without mankind even being aware of how they are doing it. And the Facebook alogarithm developing its own language to speak to itself was mind blowing.
Yes, apart from environmental degradation and pathogen release causing pandemics, AI fuelled by AI written algorithms is the most immediate threat.

From that podcast, the universe of paper clips example was extraordinary.



On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

VDS66

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Just leave this here...

THE WORLD OF FRASER ANNING.
No matter where I have lived or travelled in my 87 years, there have always been bullies who don't like people who are different to them. They feel a great need to punish those of whom they disapprove.
I felt their wrath when I was a student at the North State School in Toowoomba in the 1940's when the Bidgood gang declared that I was a 'pansy' because my name was Everald and I really should have been a girl.
So, yet another one of these mobs of bogans appeared at St Kilda in Melbourne a few days ago to vent their spleen on migrants and refugees even though any police officer in Australia will tell you that, per head of population, white thugs commit far more crimes than coloured ones.
Unfortunately, too may public figures attacked these thugs in the media giving them just the publicity they sought.
Senator Fraser Anning from Queensland had already worked out that there were votes to be gained by turning up in Melbourne to publicly declare that he agreed with the angry guys.
He is right. The racist vote in Australia is about 10% and, if he gets their support, he just might get re-elected to the Senate next year where 13% is needed to get a quota.
His big mistake was not that he sided with thugs, but that he claimed parliamentary expenses for his visit.
He is not a Senator for Victoria. He is a Queensland Senator and it is quite dishonest for him to claim that he just had to go to Melbourne to represent Queensland's interests in this matter.
Peter Slipper was kicked out of Parliament for submitting a false expenses claim of much less than that.
However, to get to the point of this Post.
For most of my life, I have been helping New Australians settle into our nation and many of them are not white, yet turned out to be real good citizens, far better people than the St.Kilda thugs or Anning..
I intend to encourage more to come here and I will continue to help them find their productive place in a world that Anning fears.
My inspiration is Martin Luther King who said when addressing the Great March of Negroes in Washington a half century ago.
'I have a dream that one day my children will be judged not by the colour of their skin, but by the purity of their soul.'
Everald
 

VDS66

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yes i did and to that point im still none the wiser as to if it really is an issue there or not .. from what i can see from the locals there is not much changing in the area in regards to crime
No reports of gang violence on the beach.

However, that right wing peanut was down there a few weeks back shoving a video can.in the faces of a group of African youth playing soccer. Same guy who called Dastyari a monkey and terrorist if I recall correctly.
 

CursingFijian

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what the heck are you on about ?
history will show there will always be criminals - as long as there is the haves and the have nots there will be crime , policing is not an at risk profession there will always be criminals if we stop african imigration compleatly we will still have crime ...
the funny thing about you people who yearn about the "good old days" is you have really short memories maybe Drake with his copper experiance can share with you the violent crimes he saw in your so called good old days im sure there were pleanty that happened but in that time there was no money to be made by reporting on these crimes, there was no cash for clicks on online stories about heated topics in those days so i dont think the crime has increased i think the reporting on crime has increased ...
This post is insinuating that the ‘have nots’ are doing all the stealing. Our world is littered with examples where it is the other way around though.

I think it’s just more accurate to say that as long as we have societal laws, we will have crime.

Even the 2nd law of thermodynamics is not exempt.
 
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yes i did and to that point im still none the wiser as to if it really is an issue there or not .. from what i can see from the locals there is not much changing in the area in regards to crime
The answer is.... If you say its an issue, someone will say its not.

What i said is that most of the time you can go most places safely there.
No different from Dandenong.
Don't know what its like out West at places like Sunshine, haven't been there for years.
 
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No reports of gang violence on the beach.

However, that right wing peanut was down there a few weeks back shoving a video can.in the faces of a group of African youth playing soccer. Same guy who called Dastyari a monkey and terrorist if I recall correctly.
Not since December anyway.
 

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st_trav_ofWA

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This post is insinuating that the ‘have nots’ are doing all the stealing. Our world is littered with examples where it is the other way around though.

I think it’s just more accurate to say that as long as we have societal laws, we will have crime.

Even the 2nd law of thermodynamics is not exempt.
it still is a case of haves and have nots a rich person stealing from a poor is a case of one person having something the other person wants
 

Mowman

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yes i did and to that point im still none the wiser as to if it really is an issue there or not .. from what i can see from the locals there is not much changing in the area in regards to crime
IMO yes it is a problem it needs to be fixed and when its fixed another problem will come up. no different to the last 50 years and most likely no different to next 50 years
 
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I locked up many people of different races and colours, but about 98% of them were white. This was between 1960 and 1990. I believe the same situation would exist today.
Agreed, bb. Same for me. You would've been around Springvale in the days when Asian "crime gangs" extorted the local shopkeepers and citizens. Drug dealing, theft, violence and extortion were the norm. It resulted in vicpol setting up the Asian Crime Squad, long since disbanded. Several of the local Springvale detectives formed up the original squad. It was very successful in cleaning up crime in conjunction with local police and detectives.

Some of the Vietnamese crooks in those days were tough and scary. They were fearless, challenging you to torture them because nothing you could do was anywhere near as bad as to what had already been done to them back home.

They also convinced locals that the police were corrupt and you could buy your freedom. Bail was a foreign concept in SE Asia and people would see crooks arrested and taken into police stations. Later that day, the same crooks would tell everyone they had bought their way out by paying the police. Bail bond forms provided "evidence" of this "corrupt" practice.

One generation on, have a drive through Springvale now. Every second home near the main shopping drag is a solicitor's, doctor's, accountant's or dentist's practice. I shop there often as the markets provide great quality food at cheap prices. It is vibrant and bustling. When you wander through the back lanes you'd swear you're in Vietnam it Cambodia. It is an example of successful integration and assimilation. Of course, it still has its problems, but the transformation and gentrification of the place in just 30 years has been remarkable.

One thing I'll never forget is footage we took of a well known 'fence' and his shop. One day, two rival mobs of Turks and Viets ran at each other and engaged in a pitched battle in the street. Baseball bats, steel bars, knives and cleavers were plentiful. One little Turk copped a cleaver to the back of the head. Blood went everywhere. He merely shook his head and staggered backwards, off camera. As the camera was fixed and unmanned at the time, we never did find out what happened to him. Fortunately, there were no reported deaths from head wounds in the ensuing days. This was in the middle of the day, too. It was a bit like that back then.

I'm hopeful that Africans will assimilate in the same way. Culture, not race, is the key with these issues. Firm policing and enforcement also sends a strong message. The leaders of the African community gave a great responsibility in this. They should be consulting the Vietnamese, especially in light of recent events.

In the end, the St.Kilda beach events have been highlighted because of the location. The problem has dared to encroach the bayside and the elites and middle classes are appalled, fuelled by a media eager to pour petrol onto a ratings bonfire. The greater problems exist in the western and northern suburbs, where incidents of brawls, home invasions, assaults and gangs roaming the streets are commonplace. Wyndhamvale in the west now boasts the unenviable record of having the most reported violent crimes, burglaries and car thefts in the state. At times the police in this region have refused to attend reports of gang related incidents for having a lack of numbers to form an appropriate response.

I house sat and cared for a mate's pets for three weeks in Point Cook recently. The nearby suburbs of Laverton and Tarneit didn't feel that safe after dark. Melton, has also had significant problems, to the extent that public protests have been held because of a lack of police presence and action. There is little coverage of these incidents compared to the St.Kikda beach fiasco. Hard times, but these issues typically take a generation to settle. Strap in. We live in Interesting times.
 

VDS66

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Agreed, bb. Same for me. You would've been around Springvale in the days when Asian "crime gangs" extorted the local shopkeepers and citizens. Drug dealing, theft, violence and extortion were the norm. It resulted in vicpol setting up the Asian Crime Squad, long since disbanded. Several of the local Springvale detectives formed up the original squad. It was very successful in cleaning up crime in conjunction with local police and detectives.

Some of the Vietnamese crooks in those days were tough and scary. They were fearless, challenging you to torture them because nothing you could do was anywhere near as bad as to what had already been done to them back home.

They also convinced locals that the police were corrupt and you could buy your freedom. Bail was a foreign concept in SE Asia and people would see crooks arrested and taken into police stations. Later that day, the same crooks would tell everyone they had bought their way out by paying the police. Bail bond forms provided "evidence" of this "corrupt" practice.

One generation on, have a drive through Springvale now. Every second home near the main shopping drag is a solicitor's, doctor's, accountant's or dentist's practice. I shop there often as the markets provide great quality food at cheap prices. It is vibrant and bustling. When you wander through the back lanes you'd swear you're in Vietnam it Cambodia. It is an example of successful integration and assimilation. Of course, it still has its problems, but the transformation and gentrification of the place in just 30 years has been remarkable.

One thing I'll never forget is footage we took of a well known 'fence' and his shop. One day, two rival mobs of Turks and Viets ran at each other and engaged in a pitched battle in the street. Baseball bats, steel bars, knives and cleavers were plentiful. One little Turk copped a cleaver to the back of the head. Blood went everywhere. He merely shook his head and staggered backwards, off camera. As the camera was fixed and unmanned at the time, we never did find out what happened to him. Fortunately, there were no reported deaths from head wounds in the ensuing days. This was in the middle of the day, too. It was a bit like that back then.

I'm hopeful that Africans will assimilate in the same way. Culture, not race, is the key with these issues. Firm policing and enforcement also sends a strong message. The leaders of the African community gave a great responsibility in this. They should be consulting the Vietnamese, especially in light of recent events.

In the end, the St.Kilda beach events have been highlighted because of the location. The problem has dared to encroach the bayside and the elites and middle classes are appalled, fuelled by a media eager to pour petrol onto a ratings bonfire. The greater problems exist in the western and northern suburbs, where incidents of brawls, home invasions, assaults and gangs roaming the streets are commonplace. Wyndhamvale in the west now boasts the unenviable record of having the most reported violent crimes, burglaries and car thefts in the state. At times the police in this region have refused to attend reports of gang related incidents for having a lack of numbers to form an appropriate response.

I house sat and cared for a mate's pets for three weeks in Point Cook recently. The nearby suburbs of Laverton and Tarneit didn't feel that safe after dark. Melton, has also had significant problems, to the extent that public protests have been held because of a lack of police presence and action. There is little coverage of these incidents compared to the St.Kikda beach fiasco. Hard times, but these issues typically take a generation to settle. Strap in. We live in Interesting times.
A ratings bonfire.

Nail hammer head.

That's why I no longer watch commercial TV news. All sensational stories making people afraid and paranoid... Not to mention angry and depressed.

All to keep you watching, boost ratings and revenue.

A fearful divided community is perfect for maintaining the status quo for the elites.

This goes to my original comments about apathy and a lack of protests to enforce real change.

I'm old enough to remember the Vietnamese gangs.

As you say it takes a while but eventually it settles.

Where will the next migrant gangs come from?
 
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I know you love a good stat, SaintsSeptember but this has got to be your worst, most selective, self-serving use of numbers I have seen. Dig a little deeper. I know you can do it. What was the indigenous vs non-indigenous fatality count in the settlement wars? How many aboriginals died as a result of European settlement in Australia? What are the lasting impacts of settlement on the aboriginal people?

Your argument is lets throw these here new fellas off the Island because violence and criminality. But let's forget about all the genocide we tried on early in our history because, you know, bygone are bygones, right? How about we treat refugees the same way we want aboriginals to treat us, by accepting the ugly circumstances, and pull up your socks and lets make the best of it. By jove.
Well there's a pretty significant difference in that everyone who perpetrated crimes during settlement is long dead whereas the kids in African gangs are very not dead. I don't believe in persecuting a son for the sins of his father (or any other ancestor) and anyone who does has a flawed sense of morals.

And how about we don't just accept a crime rate 44 times higher than every other Australian because well, long dead ancestors whise lineage is essentially untraceable did some bad things but also removed some ugly traditions such as infanticide.
 
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A ratings bonfire.

Nail hammer head.

I'm old enough to remember the Vietnamese gangs.

As you say it takes a while but eventually it settles.

Where will the next migrant gangs come from?
South and Central America. Once people are turned back from the USA in significant numbers, it'll be Canada or here. I have a mate who is from the Dominican Republic and worked in central America with his missus, also a nurse back in the 80's. He reckons Asian and African gangs look Sunday school teachers compared to what the Central/South American gangs have to offer.
 
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"A fearful divided community is perfect for maintaining the status quo for the elites."

This sums it up neatly in 25 words or less, VDS66. It's one of the main reasons I ended up changing careers. It was pretty obvious we were policing to preserve the status quo, at the expense of the security and welfare of the great "unwashed". If you examine budgets, priorities and the behaviour if vicpol Command, it soon becomes clear the welfare of police members and the public are far from the top of their list.
 
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StCicatriz

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it still is a case of haves and have nots a rich person stealing from a poor is a case of one person having something the other person wants
I don't think it's that simple. Crime isn't always due to rich vs poor.

Shit loads of fighting stereotypes with more stereotypes in this thread. It's the exact same argument but made from two different sides.
 
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Agreed, bb. Same for me. You would've been around Springvale in the days when Asian "crime gangs" extorted the local shopkeepers and citizens. Drug dealing, theft, violence and extortion were the norm. It resulted in vicpol setting up the Asian Crime Squad, long since disbanded. Several of the local Springvale detectives formed up the original squad. It was very successful in cleaning up crime in conjunction with local police and detectives.

Some of the Vietnamese crooks in those days were tough and scary. They were fearless, challenging you to torture them because nothing you could do was anywhere near as bad as to what had already been done to them back home.

They also convinced locals that the police were corrupt and you could buy your freedom. Bail was a foreign concept in SE Asia and people would see crooks arrested and taken into police stations. Later that day, the same crooks would tell everyone they had bought their way out by paying the police. Bail bond forms provided "evidence" of this "corrupt" practice.

One generation on, have a drive through Springvale now. Every second home near the main shopping drag is a solicitor's, doctor's, accountant's or dentist's practice. I shop there often as the markets provide great quality food at cheap prices. It is vibrant and bustling. When you wander through the back lanes you'd swear you're in Vietnam it Cambodia. It is an example of successful integration and assimilation. Of course, it still has its problems, but the transformation and gentrification of the place in just 30 years has been remarkable.

One thing I'll never forget is footage we took of a well known 'fence' and his shop. One day, two rival mobs of Turks and Viets ran at each other and engaged in a pitched battle in the street. Baseball bats, steel bars, knives and cleavers were plentiful. One little Turk copped a cleaver to the back of the head. Blood went everywhere. He merely shook his head and staggered backwards, off camera. As the camera was fixed and unmanned at the time, we never did find out what happened to him. Fortunately, there were no reported deaths from head wounds in the ensuing days. This was in the middle of the day, too. It was a bit like that back then.

I'm hopeful that Africans will assimilate in the same way. Culture, not race, is the key with these issues. Firm policing and enforcement also sends a strong message. The leaders of the African community gave a great responsibility in this. They should be consulting the Vietnamese, especially in light of recent events.

In the end, the St.Kilda beach events have been highlighted because of the location. The problem has dared to encroach the bayside and the elites and middle classes are appalled, fuelled by a media eager to pour petrol onto a ratings bonfire. The greater problems exist in the western and northern suburbs, where incidents of brawls, home invasions, assaults and gangs roaming the streets are commonplace. Wyndhamvale in the west now boasts the unenviable record of having the most reported violent crimes, burglaries and car thefts in the state. At times the police in this region have refused to attend reports of gang related incidents for having a lack of numbers to form an appropriate response.

I house sat and cared for a mate's pets for three weeks in Point Cook recently. The nearby suburbs of Laverton and Tarneit didn't feel that safe after dark. Melton, has also had significant problems, to the extent that public protests have been held because of a lack of police presence and action. There is little coverage of these incidents compared to the St.Kikda beach fiasco. Hard times, but these issues typically take a generation to settle. Strap in. We live in Interesting times.
No, I was at Springy from 1977 to 1981. Plenty of Asians there, but they were relatively well behaved. I asked the manager of Enterprise Migrant Hostel who were the worse migrants for causing trouble there. He told me Eastern Europeans, The Vietnamese, who were in the majority at that time, were good and handled there own problems.
And I dont know what sheltered life you led Drake but Springvale was by far the quietess area I worked in Melbourne. My other stations were Fitzroy, St.Kilda, and Dandenong, and the Wireless Patrol. As a Sergeant Fitzroy and Dandenong and in the CIB St.Kilda and Dandenong, and a brief spell in the Drug Bureau CIB.. I had two spells in the Country in the CIB.
 
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No, I was at Springy from 1977 to 1981. Plenty of Asians there, but they were relatively well behaved. I asked the manager of Enterprise Migrant Hostel who were the worse migrants for causing trouble there. He told me Eastern Europeans, The Vietnamese, who were in the majority at that time, were good and handled there own problems.
And I dont know what sheltered life you led Drake but Springvale was by far the quietess area I worked in Melbourne. My other stations were Fitzroy, St.Kilda, and Dandenong, and the Wireless Patrol. As a Sergeant Fitzroy and Dandenong and in the CIB St.Kilda and Dandenong, and a brief spell in the Drug Bureau CIB.. I had two spells in the Country in the CIB.
Yeah, I led a really a sheltered career around the inner city, Port Melbourne, South Melbourne, DSGs, a couple of task forces, Frankston CIB, two stints over 5 years at the Homicide Squad, in charge of the Serial Violent Offender Unit in the Crime Department. Crammed a bit into my 18 years, but I don't know what our relative CVs have to do with the issue.

Why do you think they set up the Asian Squad? Because there wasn't a need? Why did they draw the original staff from Richmond, Footscray and Springvale? Maybe you just missed all the crime going on around you.

In terms of "quietess" as you put it, from 1989-1991 it was Footscray and Sunshine that led the way for crimes investigated and solved per number of members on the roster. Incredibly, Parkdale CIB in the old Z District came in 4th on that stat. Frankston, Dandenong and Springvale CIBs all came in ahead of St.Kilda, which limped home in 16th place. In fairness to you, it was after your time, but I can assure you, Springvale had its challenges. How did I know those stats? My DDI at the time pulled them up for an appeal hearing for a colleague who was up against a member of the "St.Kilda Police Force", who continually hammered home the point how much busier it was than Z District. The facts shot him down in flames. They have a cruel way of doing that.
 
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