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Joffaboy

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Agreed, bb. Same for me. You would've been around Springvale in the days when Asian "crime gangs" extorted the local shopkeepers and citizens. Drug dealing, theft, violence and extortion were the norm. It resulted in vicpol setting up the Asian Crime Squad, long since disbanded. Several of the local Springvale detectives formed up the original squad. It was very successful in cleaning up crime in conjunction with local police and detectives.

Some of the Vietnamese crooks in those days were tough and scary. They were fearless, challenging you to torture them because nothing you could do was anywhere near as bad as to what had already been done to them back home.

They also convinced locals that the police were corrupt and you could buy your freedom. Bail was a foreign concept in SE Asia and people would see crooks arrested and taken into police stations. Later that day, the same crooks would tell everyone they had bought their way out by paying the police. Bail bond forms provided "evidence" of this "corrupt" practice.

One generation on, have a drive through Springvale now. Every second home near the main shopping drag is a solicitor's, doctor's, accountant's or dentist's practice. I shop there often as the markets provide great quality food at cheap prices. It is vibrant and bustling. When you wander through the back lanes you'd swear you're in Vietnam it Cambodia. It is an example of successful integration and assimilation. Of course, it still has its problems, but the transformation and gentrification of the place in just 30 years has been remarkable.

One thing I'll never forget is footage we took of a well known 'fence' and his shop. One day, two rival mobs of Turks and Viets ran at each other and engaged in a pitched battle in the street. Baseball bats, steel bars, knives and cleavers were plentiful. One little Turk copped a cleaver to the back of the head. Blood went everywhere. He merely shook his head and staggered backwards, off camera. As the camera was fixed and unmanned at the time, we never did find out what happened to him. Fortunately, there were no reported deaths from head wounds in the ensuing days. This was in the middle of the day, too. It was a bit like that back then.

I'm hopeful that Africans will assimilate in the same way. Culture, not race, is the key with these issues. Firm policing and enforcement also sends a strong message. The leaders of the African community gave a great responsibility in this. They should be consulting the Vietnamese, especially in light of recent events.

In the end, the St.Kilda beach events have been highlighted because of the location. The problem has dared to encroach the bayside and the elites and middle classes are appalled, fuelled by a media eager to pour petrol onto a ratings bonfire. The greater problems exist in the western and northern suburbs, where incidents of brawls, home invasions, assaults and gangs roaming the streets are commonplace. Wyndhamvale in the west now boasts the unenviable record of having the most reported violent crimes, burglaries and car thefts in the state. At times the police in this region have refused to attend reports of gang related incidents for having a lack of numbers to form an appropriate response.

I house sat and cared for a mate's pets for three weeks in Point Cook recently. The nearby suburbs of Laverton and Tarneit didn't feel that safe after dark. Melton, has also had significant problems, to the extent that public protests have been held because of a lack of police presence and action. There is little coverage of these incidents compared to the St.Kikda beach fiasco. Hard times, but these issues typically take a generation to settle. Strap in. We live in Interesting times.
Great post. All so true and confirms my anecdotal beliefs.

Interesting your comments on the West.

The two swings against the govt in Nov were in the seats of Werribee and Melton.

Safe Labor seats where crime and infrastructure are huge issues.

Daughter lived in Tarneit and it was a terrible place like all new suburbs, no trees on the flat basalt plain, tiny houses, roadworks everywhere and lots of kid trouble.
She and her boyfriend moved to a new estate in Werribee which is a bit more affluent and it just feels safer.



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Agreed, bb. Same for me. You would've been around Springvale in the days when Asian "crime gangs" extorted the local shopkeepers and citizens. Drug dealing, theft, violence and extortion were the norm. It resulted in vicpol setting up the Asian Crime Squad, long since disbanded. Several of the local Springvale detectives formed up the original squad. It was very successful in cleaning up crime in conjunction with local police and detectives.

Some of the Vietnamese crooks in those days were tough and scary. They were fearless, challenging you to torture them because nothing you could do was anywhere near as bad as to what had already been done to them back home.

They also convinced locals that the police were corrupt and you could buy your freedom. Bail was a foreign concept in SE Asia and people would see crooks arrested and taken into police stations. Later that day, the same crooks would tell everyone they had bought their way out by paying the police. Bail bond forms provided "evidence" of this "corrupt" practice.

One generation on, have a drive through Springvale now. Every second home near the main shopping drag is a solicitor's, doctor's, accountant's or dentist's practice. I shop there often as the markets provide great quality food at cheap prices. It is vibrant and bustling. When you wander through the back lanes you'd swear you're in Vietnam it Cambodia. It is an example of successful integration and assimilation. Of course, it still has its problems, but the transformation and gentrification of the place in just 30 years has been remarkable.

One thing I'll never forget is footage we took of a well known 'fence' and his shop. One day, two rival mobs of Turks and Viets ran at each other and engaged in a pitched battle in the street. Baseball bats, steel bars, knives and cleavers were plentiful. One little Turk copped a cleaver to the back of the head. Blood went everywhere. He merely shook his head and staggered backwards, off camera. As the camera was fixed and unmanned at the time, we never did find out what happened to him. Fortunately, there were no reported deaths from head wounds in the ensuing days. This was in the middle of the day, too. It was a bit like that back then.

I'm hopeful that Africans will assimilate in the same way. Culture, not race, is the key with these issues. Firm policing and enforcement also sends a strong message. The leaders of the African community gave a great responsibility in this. They should be consulting the Vietnamese, especially in light of recent events.

In the end, the St.Kilda beach events have been highlighted because of the location. The problem has dared to encroach the bayside and the elites and middle classes are appalled, fuelled by a media eager to pour petrol onto a ratings bonfire. The greater problems exist in the western and northern suburbs, where incidents of brawls, home invasions, assaults and gangs roaming the streets are commonplace. Wyndhamvale in the west now boasts the unenviable record of having the most reported violent crimes, burglaries and car thefts in the state. At times the police in this region have refused to attend reports of gang related incidents for having a lack of numbers to form an appropriate response.

I house sat and cared for a mate's pets for three weeks in Point Cook recently. The nearby suburbs of Laverton and Tarneit didn't feel that safe after dark. Melton, has also had significant problems, to the extent that public protests have been held because of a lack of police presence and action. There is little coverage of these incidents compared to the St.Kikda beach fiasco. Hard times, but these issues typically take a generation to settle. Strap in. We live in Interesting times.
Thanks Drake , that's a much better articulation of some of my concerns.
Major points i thought were,
1.
the police acted to address a specific cultural problem in Springvale. ( as someone living in Footscray , with a large Vietnamese community , if it was happening there it wasn't apparent to the general public ). Surely its not racist to recognize and respond to a cultural problem. And just because it was an " Asian Crime Unit " didn't mean they were targeting all Asians in a racist way. Is it true that a lot of the crime there , such as extortion, was committed largely against Vietnamese community members?


2. Crimes in the outer suburbs have been swept under the rug.

I think its bad that its been made a racial issue.
------------
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_(gang)
Claims of racism[edit]
There have been varying claims of racism in relation to Apex, the Moomba brawl, and related crimes. An Apex member speaking under the assumed name of "James" claimed to have been present at the Moomba brawl but not involved stated that media reports were exaggerated, that he "wouldn't call Apex a gang", and that he didn't know of organised criminal activity within Apex. He stated it was racist that police were only targeting Apex, and not the other group involved. After Border Force chief Roman Quaedvlieg stated that Apex members could be deported under legislation previously used to deport outlaw motorcycle club members, there were claims by Anthony Kelly, head of the Flemington and Kensington Community Legal Centre that this would be inherently racist, and akin to apartheid
-------------------
( My opinion ) Anthony Kelly is simply wrong. Apartheid was segregation due to race. The Border Force Chief was talking about deporting criminals like Dustin Martin's dad was, never about deporting people simply because of where they came from, or the color of their skin. Kelly's type of comments cause authorities and the law to tread lightly , and sweep it under the rug which unfortunately leads to :

-------
Far-right response[edit]
Far right white supremacists and neo-Nazis including the True Blue Crew and Soldiers Of Odin were reported to have been running vigilante "safety patrols" around Melbourne's CBD in the face of non-action by Victoria Police. The groups stated aim was to stop the violence, however it emerged they were simply participating in further violence with the vigilante patrols reported to have harassed innocent people based on their appearance, and even followed one individual home. In response, a Victoria Police spokeswoman stated that "We do not recommend people confront offenders as this places you at risk of harm. Police have extensive training which equips them with the skills and resources needed to respond to safety issues." adding that "Anyone in danger or who is a witness to a crime should ring triple zero

--------------
Surely the specific types of crime we are seeing are a relatively small number of people. ( i know of cases where a dodgy family moves from town to town, and the crime follows them ). Just somehow get them under control. I really don't care if the criminals are in their country of birth or a jail.

A local cop made the comment to me... "We catch them, they let them go "
 

st_trav_ofWA

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I don't think it's that simple. Crime isn't always due to rich vs poor.

Shit loads of fighting stereotypes with more stereotypes in this thread. It's the exact same argument but made from two different sides.
read it again ...
im not saying rich vs poor .. im saying haves vs have nots ... as long as some one has something someone else wants there will be a case of that someone taking it from the other someone .. it doenst matter if the person is poor or rich, black or white, male or female its a case of one person wanting something from another person - be it an object , money, physical attention or even fear, its a transfer of someone giving up something they have to a person who wants it
 

StCicatriz

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read it again ...
im not saying rich vs poor .. im saying haves vs have nots ... as long as some one has something someone else wants there will be a case of that someone taking it from the other someone .. it doenst matter if the person is poor or rich, black or white, male or female its a case of one person wanting something from another person - be it an object , money, physical attention or even fear, its a transfer of someone giving up something they have to a person who wants it
See I don't think it's that simple. Take drink driving. It's not a case of taking something. They just want to drive and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. Same with the use of illegal drugs etc.
 
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Thanks Drake , that's a much better articulation of some of my concerns.
Major points i thought were,
1.
the police acted to address a specific cultural problem in Springvale. ( as someone living in Footscray , with a large Vietnamese community , if it was happening there it wasn't apparent to the general public ). Surely its not racist to recognize and respond to a cultural problem. And just because it was an " Asian Crime Unit " didn't mean they were targeting all Asians in a racist way. Is it true that a lot of the crime there , such as extortion, was committed largely against Vietnamese community members?


2. Crimes in the outer suburbs have been swept under the rug.

I think its bad that its been made a racial issue.
------------
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_(gang)
Claims of racism[edit]
There have been varying claims of racism in relation to Apex, the Moomba brawl, and related crimes. An Apex member speaking under the assumed name of "James" claimed to have been present at the Moomba brawl but not involved stated that media reports were exaggerated, that he "wouldn't call Apex a gang", and that he didn't know of organised criminal activity within Apex. He stated it was racist that police were only targeting Apex, and not the other group involved. After Border Force chief Roman Quaedvlieg stated that Apex members could be deported under legislation previously used to deport outlaw motorcycle club members, there were claims by Anthony Kelly, head of the Flemington and Kensington Community Legal Centre that this would be inherently racist, and akin to apartheid
-------------------
( My opinion ) Anthony Kelly is simply wrong. Apartheid was segregation due to race. The Border Force Chief was talking about deporting criminals like Dustin Martin's dad was, never about deporting people simply because of where they came from, or the color of their skin. Kelly's type of comments cause authorities and the law to tread lightly , and sweep it under the rug which unfortunately leads to :

-------
Far-right response[edit]
Far right white supremacists and neo-Nazis including the True Blue Crew and Soldiers Of Odin were reported to have been running vigilante "safety patrols" around Melbourne's CBD in the face of non-action by Victoria Police. The groups stated aim was to stop the violence, however it emerged they were simply participating in further violence with the vigilante patrols reported to have harassed innocent people based on their appearance, and even followed one individual home. In response, a Victoria Police spokeswoman stated that "We do not recommend people confront offenders as this places you at risk of harm. Police have extensive training which equips them with the skills and resources needed to respond to safety issues." adding that "Anyone in danger or who is a witness to a crime should ring triple zero

--------------
Surely the specific types of crime we are seeing are a relatively small number of people. ( i know of cases where a dodgy family moves from town to town, and the crime follows them ). Just somehow get them under control. I really don't care if the criminals are in their country of birth or a jail.

A local cop made the comment to me... "We catch them, they let them go "
Yes, SS. The Asian Squad was set up to mainly to address Asion on Asian crime. Traditionally, Asians did not trust police, mainly due to experiences in their own cultures, kept disputes " in house" and were generally discreet with crimes such as illegal gaming, animal fighting, extortion etc. Drug dealing was what caused the main area of crossover into mainstream society.

The squad itself was designed to build cultural bridges as much as enforce the law. It did open a whole new book on how various cultures operated and what expectations were. It was eventually disbanded when its goals were reached.

The asian communities I policed in were generally law abiding and well behaved. Respectful, if fearful of the police. Occasionally trouble would spill into public such as the example I gave, but that was rare.

It took a long time to build trust on both sides. Even today, despite vigorous efforts, it is difficult to recruit people of asian descent, as the cultures simply don't see it as a profession with any social status. Bad memories of brutal treatment also linger for the older generation.

In the end, co operation was granted because people were sick of being extorted and exploited and that police demonstrated they could act effectively.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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See I don't think it's that simple. Take drink driving. It's not a case of taking something. They just want to drive and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. Same with the use of illegal drugs etc.
yes but in the context of what we are discussing it is a case of taking something from someone else ... i mean we are not talking about African gangs drink driving here are we ....
and to be honest with you drink driving is kind of taking away from people , if you choose to drink and drive then you are taking away my ability to be safe on the roads ...
as for drug taking thats a whole other kettle of fish on if drug use should even be a crime , the action of people under the influence of drugs is certainly a crime but the actual taking of a drug is a choice a person ..
 

DGontheQT

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The answer is.... If you say its an issue, someone will say its not.

What i said is that most of the time you can go most places safely there.
No different from Dandenong.
Don't know what its like out West at places like Sunshine, haven't been there for years.
Must be pretty bad. My 11 year old niece calls it Scumshine.
 

StCicatriz

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yes but in the context of what we are discussing it is a case of taking something from someone else ... i mean we are not talking about African gangs drink driving here are we ....
and to be honest with you drink driving is kind of taking away from people , if you choose to drink and drive then you are taking away my ability to be safe on the roads ...
as for drug taking thats a whole other kettle of fish on if drug use should even be a crime , the action of people under the influence of drugs is certainly a crime but the actual taking of a drug is a choice a person ..
you can spin everything down to "taking something" doesn't mean it makes one iota of sense

possessing an illicit substance is illegal and a crime. you're not taking anything from anyone. so is taking it... hey there is that taking word, must mean they're "taking something" ;-)

i had some acquaintances when i was growing up that were stealing sound systems from peoples cars. some of them involved didnt care about the goods they were stealing. they never received it or any money. they didn't care about taking something from someone, in fact they felt quite guilty about it. it was more getting drawn into the crowd, feeling cool etc.

i imagine this could be an element for some of the alleged sudanese car jackings and invasions. some of the guys involved just like feeling part of something and the excitement of it.
 

mightymalaka

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you can spin everything down to "taking something" doesn't mean it makes one iota of sense

possessing an illicit substance is illegal and a crime. you're not taking anything from anyone. so is taking it... hey there is that taking word, must mean they're "taking something" ;-)

i had some acquaintances when i was growing up that were stealing sound systems from peoples cars. some of them involved didnt care about the goods they were stealing. they never received it or any money. they didn't care about taking something from someone, in fact they felt quite guilty about it. it was more getting drawn into the crowd, feeling cool etc.

i imagine this could be an element for some of the alleged sudanese car jackings and invasions. some of the guys involved just like feeling part of something and the excitement of it.
That's taking it way out of context St.C and I suspect you know that!
How on earth you have made the leap from someone taking an " illegal substance"
As you put it, too someone stealing sound systems from other persons car is beyond me!
They are 2 different actions altogether! One MAY hurt oneself! The other clearly hurts another
Completely innocent citizen! Please do not put the 2 together and compare them as like for like!
 

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StCicatriz

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That's taking it way out of context St.C and I suspect you know that!
How on earth you have made the leap from someone taking an " illegal substance"
As you put it, too someone stealing sound systems from other persons car is beyond me!
They are 2 different actions altogether! One MAY hurt oneself! The other clearly hurts another
Completely innocent citizen! Please do not put the 2 together and compare them as like for like!
they are two completely different examples to show its not always about taking something from someone.

i agree that one hurts themselves whilst the other hurts a completely innocent victim. i dont condone either action what so ever.

what i did try to provide though was insight into why crime in young adults could argue. its not as simple as to put it down to one element. there's a myriad of different reasons as to why crime occurs.
 

mightymalaka

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So it seems I have insufficient privileges to continue posting on the Richo thread!
Either your taking the piss Georgie or someone seriously needs to lighten up!
'Twas a joke my friend! But if you want to push this out of control muzzling of free speech
Then by all means go ahead comrade!

Personally I find it just way over the top in terms of moderation!
But hey knock yourself out Lord Thinskin! Go the whole hog and silence me altogether!
I welcome it!
Kicking and screaming please!
 

George

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So it seems I have insufficient privileges to continue posting on the Richo thread!
Either your taking the piss Georgie or someone seriously needs to lighten up!
'Twas a joke my friend! But if you want to push this out of control muzzling of free speech
Then by all means go ahead comrade!

Personally I find it just way over the top in terms of moderation!
But hey knock yourself out Lord Thinskin! Go the whole hog and silence me altogether!
I welcome it!
Kicking and screaming please!
It was for one day because quite frankly I can't be bothered entertaining your posts trying to get a rise out of me.

Give it a rest.
 

mightymalaka

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It was for one day because quite frankly I can't be bothered entertaining your posts trying to get a rise out of me.

Give it a rest.
There's that indifferent arrogance again Georgie!
Not a pleasant trait at all! Trust me man you nor I are that important!
Me thinks you may need to give it a rest!

But we all know how this little exchange will end up and who will have the last word!
So I'll make it easy for you bud!
Its been fun fellow sainters I have enjoyed every minute of it!
But it appears my time amongst you all is up!
Peace and love to you all!

Malaka out!
 
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In reply to Drake Huggins, my time at Springy was 77 to 81. One of the original members of the Asian Crime squad was a uniformed Constable at Springy in those years. Neal (I forget was it Sullivan?). It is not usually the migrants themselves that were the crims, but the first generation, their kids. I am sure there will be tougher times ahead from our current intake.
 

George

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There's that indifferent arrogance again Georgie!
Not a pleasant trait at all! Trust me man you nor I are that important!
Me thinks you may need to give it a rest!

But we all know how this little exchange will end up and who will have the last word!
So I'll make it easy for you bud!
Its been fun fellow sainters I have enjoyed every minute of it!
But it appears my time amongst you all is up!
Peace and love to you all!

Malaka out!
I'm not sure if you understand how forums work but what you are doing is definitely not on, mate.

If you would like an explanation PM me, otherwise keep it to yourself.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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you can spin everything down to "taking something" doesn't mean it makes one iota of sense

possessing an illicit substance is illegal and a crime. you're not taking anything from anyone. so is taking it... hey there is that taking word, must mean they're "taking something" ;-)

i had some acquaintances when i was growing up that were stealing sound systems from peoples cars. some of them involved didnt care about the goods they were stealing. they never received it or any money. they didn't care about taking something from someone, in fact they felt quite guilty about it. it was more getting drawn into the crowd, feeling cool etc.

i imagine this could be an element for some of the alleged sudanese car jackings and invasions. some of the guys involved just like feeling part of something and the excitement of it.
i think you are getting caught up in an innocuous turn of phrase ... the point i was saying is there will always be crime ... you mis-interpreted it as me saying poor people will steal from rich i corrected this now you seem to be fixated on the fact not all crime is taking from some one .... seem a bit like arguing for the sake of arguing ...
my initial point remains even if we had no African migration we would still have crime
 
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