Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

In a nutshell...

https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/fe...t-and-why-no-one-noticed-20190519-p51ox6.html

Yeah, the appeal of what labour was going to do on franking credits and negative gearing really only impressed people with a fairly good grip on finance. Most people that weren't affected by the changes weren't impressed by it but those that stood to lose were scared by it. The losers were everyone from estate agents scared of the way it would impact on the housing market to loan brokers, financial planners, investors etc.Modern politics is about promising something and then worrying about how you are going to do it later. Trump never has to build a wall, he can actually use it later to show why the opposition are shit and have held him back. I had a really bad feeling they would lose. Shorten is an incredibly uninspiring leader as well. Morrison has a kind of dim witted every man persona, Bill has a kind of overly confident soft **** kind of vibe.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lol all good I am just passing time until I clock off. It's like arguing religion. All good mate

I didn't really think it was startling news that "Politicians tell lies "

 

[gringo2011]

ABC is run by the Murdoch press. They have run a smear campaign on Labor for ages, it keeps Murdoch and those at the top better off.

It's common knowledge that the ABC is a Liberal machine. Only need to look at how they interviewed Morrison compared to how they interviewed Shorten. Need to link independent news sources I reckon.

Yeah, in the UK I was surprised by how right wing the BBC had become but coming back here you realise the board is so stacked and the agenda so pushed to the right that the ABC is not far off it. It just looks good in comparison to the mainstream networks.

 

[Premium]

Anyone heard from Joffa lately , I havn't seen him post for a long time

 

[George]

Anyone heard from Joffa lately , I havn't seen him post for a long time

Spoke to him yesterday he is around

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah, the appeal of what labour was going to do on franking credits and negative gearing really only impressed people with a fairly good grip on finance. Most people that weren't affected by the changes weren't impressed by it but those that stood to lose were scared by it. The losers were everyone from estate agents scared of the way it would impact on the housing market to loan brokers, financial planners, investors etc.Modern politics is about promising something and then worrying about how you are going to do it later. Trump never has to build a wall, he can actually use it later to show why the opposition are **** and have held him back. I had a really bad feeling they would lose. Shorten is an incredibly uninspiring leader as well. Morrison has a kind of dim witted every man persona, Bill has a kind of overly confident soft **** kind of vibe.

The Franking credits thing seems bizarrely complex , but you really wonder if it was worth going after it.
https://www.commsec.com.au/support/learn/managing-investments/how-do-franking-credits-work.html

I'm still trying to get my head around it. Tell me if i'm missing something.

If you were making up a system and applying it to a small business. ( ie one shareholder ).
It would make sense that The company makes $10 000. The company pays $3000 tax. The owner of the company keeps the profits without further tax.

But then what if the Owner owned lots of these little companies, he could be earning millions with only paying 30% tax.
Its clearly not fair that his business has made $10 000, gets taxed $30% , then the owner gets taxed 60% of the remainder. The Government ends up taking a huge chunk.

So they then cancel out the company tax , and apply the profit to the owner as if its Income.
( Now my head is starting to hurt ).

So what is happening is that some pensioners are getting back the 30% tax that was already paid on their dividend i think, not as a deduction, but as an actual payment from the tax department.

Makes you kind of wonder , why do they bother taxing the company , if its going to be "untaxed" as soon as it gets to a real person.
If a company makes profit, they can only:
Take it out as profits. ( So tax the shareholders ).
Send the profits to head office ( So tax that ).

I'm also not sure why they have payroll tax, yes it makes money, but increases the cost of employing people, but we want to employ people. Why do we want to tax them for employing people.
Is it just because big companies have found ways to avoid paying tax , so the gov has tried to find other ways?
Surely it would have made more sense to tax "transfer payments".

Whole thing seems to be insanity designed by madmen, but i really wasn't worried about a few pensioners who got a check back for their franked dividends.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah, the appeal of what labour was going to do on franking credits and negative gearing really only impressed people with a fairly good grip on finance. Most people that weren't affected by the changes weren't impressed by it but those that stood to lose were scared by it. The losers were everyone from estate agents scared of the way it would impact on the housing market to loan brokers, financial planners, investors etc.Modern politics is about promising something and then worrying about how you are going to do it later. Trump never has to build a wall, he can actually use it later to show why the opposition are **** and have held him back. I had a really bad feeling they would lose. Shorten is an incredibly uninspiring leader as well. Morrison has a kind of dim witted every man persona, Bill has a kind of overly confident soft **** kind of vibe.

Agree.

Shorten has an upside down triangle head which makes him less trustworthy.

His delivery always seems rehearsed and in my eyes, ge lacks passion. The only glimpse we got was when they questioned his mother.

Unfortunately it looks like we Now have a chequebook democracy.

Palmer wasn't as dumb as we think. He took enough votes and used his preferences to impact the result.

He will be partially reimbursed by the AEC. But his effect was better than simply donating to the libs. Kudos.

The guy who did our ads showing the agent taking a selfie with Porsche would have done a better job than the alp guy IMO.

Away they got it wrong on policy. Negative gearing changes during a price slump was suicidal. Even if it wasn't as bad as made out. Even investors I talk to didn't understand it.

I just hope they Slomo is pragmatic and moves to the centre now that Abbott is gone. If he is smart, he will go just that and guarantee himself another term.

If they instead drink their bath water and turn arrogant like Joyce was on Saturday night, then we are ****ed.

 

[gringo2011]

The Franking credits thing seems bizarrely complex , but you really wonder if it was worth going after it.
https://www.commsec.com.au/support/learn/managing-investments/how-do-franking-credits-work.html

I'm still trying to get my head around it. Tell me if i'm missing something.

If you were making up a system and applying it to a small business. ( ie one shareholder ).
It would make sense that The company makes $10 000. The company pays $3000 tax. The owner of the company keeps the profits without further tax.

But then what if the Owner owned lots of these little companies, he could be earning millions with only paying 30% tax.
Its clearly not fair that his business has made $10 000, gets taxed $30% , then the owner gets taxed 60% of the remainder. The Government ends up taking a huge chunk.

So they then cancel out the company tax , and apply the profit to the owner as if its Income.
( Now my head is starting to hurt ).

So what is happening is that some pensioners are getting back the 30% tax that was already paid on their dividend i think, not as a deduction, but as an actual payment from the tax department.

Makes you kind of wonder , why do they bother taxing the company , if its going to be "untaxed" as soon as it gets to a real person.
If a company makes profit, they can only:
Take it out as profits. ( So tax the shareholders ).
Send the profits to head office ( So tax that ).

I'm also not sure why they have payroll tax, yes it makes money, but increases the cost of employing people, but we want to employ people. Why do we want to tax them for employing people.
Is it just because big companies have found ways to avoid paying tax , so the gov has tried to find other ways?
Surely it would have made more sense to tax "transfer payments".

Whole thing seems to be insanity designed by madmen, but i really wasn't worried about a few pensioners who got a check back for their franked dividends.

It's like the company pays tax so the share holder doesn't have to but the shareholder can then get the tax paid by the company like they paid it. It was a loop hole that costs billions a year. It should go but no one is brave enough. Once anything is in people exploit it, no on wants to be the one to miss out.

 

[StFly]

The Franking credits thing seems bizarrely complex , but you really wonder if it was worth going after it.
https://www.commsec.com.au/support/learn/managing-investments/how-do-franking-credits-work.html

I'm still trying to get my head around it. Tell me if i'm missing something.

If you were making up a system and applying it to a small business. ( ie one shareholder ).
It would make sense that The company makes $10 000. The company pays $3000 tax. The owner of the company keeps the profits without further tax.

But then what if the Owner owned lots of these little companies, he could be earning millions with only paying 30% tax.
Its clearly not fair that his business has made $10 000, gets taxed $30% , then the owner gets taxed 60% of the remainder. The Government ends up taking a huge chunk.

So they then cancel out the company tax , and apply the profit to the owner as if its Income.
( Now my head is starting to hurt ).

So what is happening is that some pensioners are getting back the 30% tax that was already paid on their dividend i think, not as a deduction, but as an actual payment from the tax department.

Makes you kind of wonder , why do they bother taxing the company , if its going to be "untaxed" as soon as it gets to a real person.
If a company makes profit, they can only:
Take it out as profits. ( So tax the shareholders ).
Send the profits to head office ( So tax that ).

I'm also not sure why they have payroll tax, yes it makes money, but increases the cost of employing people, but we want to employ people. Why do we want to tax them for employing people.
Is it just because big companies have found ways to avoid paying tax , so the gov has tried to find other ways?
Surely it would have made more sense to tax "transfer payments".

Whole thing seems to be insanity designed by madmen, but i really wasn't worried about a few pensioners who got a check back for their franked dividends.

1. You have capita, 1000.
2. You pay worker $700.
3. There is $300 in excess as "franked" 30% tax.
4. You declare that you have 1000 (700 + 300) on personal tax.
5. Rebate is 15%, you get $150 due to previous tax rate being applied.

When you are in a low tax bracket and when you fiddle with numbers in said bracket, that $150 can turn into $300, so instead of receiveing $700, you receive $1000 and 100% of the capita due to deductions, previous credits, dividend imputation and etc.

This is how the "wealthy" basically do it, they move the money around in such small mounts to other entities to get rebates on those entities to then only have a taxable income in miniscule amounts to then draw profit on the rebates from "other" payment schemes.

https://insidestory.org.au/the-real-story-of-labors-dividend-imputation-reforms/

This is only a "recent" thing in regard to "abuse" of the system, but it's not just pensioners that would be affected as it's on threshold of what is deemed taxable and assets to the person.

Payroll tax is state driven, not federal.

Levels of taxation.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

ABC is run by the Murdoch press. They have run a smear campaign on Labor for ages, it keeps Murdoch and those at the top better off.

It's common knowledge that the ABC is a Liberal machine. Only need to look at how they interviewed Morrison compared to how they interviewed Shorten. Need to link independent news sources I reckon.

Funny how different people perceive things differently. Not really into the whole left-right paradigm but the only Australian broadcast news I get is the ABC on the Australia Plus channel.
Watching the election coverage I was staggered how often the ABC presenters were cheerleading the ALP. Even the following day, multiple times, ABC presenters were still pushing the ALP narrative.
Perhaps if others see it differently the ABC is managing to strike the balance.

Admittedly found the whole argument around "is it a tax or removal of a concession?" sad but hilarious.

 

[VDS66]

1. You have capita, 1000.
2. You pay worker $700.
3. There is $300 in excess as "franked" 30% tax.
4. You declare that you have 1000 (700 + 300) on personal tax.
5. Rebate is 15%, you get $150 due to previous tax rate being applied.

When you are in a low tax bracket and when you fiddle with numbers in said bracket, that $150 can turn into $300, so instead of receiveing $700, you receive $1000 and 100% of the capita due to deductions, previous credits, dividend imputation and etc.

This is how the "wealthy" basically do it, they move the money around in such small mounts to other entities to get rebates on those entities to then only have a taxable income in miniscule amounts to then draw profit on the rebates from "other" payment schemes.

https://insidestory.org.au/the-real-story-of-labors-dividend-imputation-reforms/

This is only a "recent" thing in regard to "abuse" of the system, but it's not just pensioners that would be affected as it's on threshold of what is deemed taxable and assets to the person.

Payroll tax is state driven, not federal.

Levels of taxation.

Great article.

So basically the worse off would have been either people living off their super which is tax free or people who are on part pension be aide they have super or don't qualify fit the full pension.

Fmd the baby boomers have a lot to answer for...

Glad to see my excessive income tax being redistributed to those who least deserve it.

After all I work my arse off to subsidise the wealthy. Go on the dole and you're treated like a pariah.

 

[VDS66]

Funny how different people perceive things differently. Not really into the whole left-right paradigm but the only Australian broadcast news I get is the ABC on the Australia Plus channel.
Watching the election coverage I was staggered how often the ABC presenters were cheerleading the ALP. Even the following day, multiple times, ABC presenters were still pushing the ALP narrative.
Perhaps if others see it differently the ABC is managing to strike the balance.

Admittedly found the whole argument around "is it a tax or removal of a concession?" sad but hilarious.

They used that argument becausevit worked a treat with the carbon tax which wascnever a carbon tax.

 

[VDS66]

The Franking credits thing seems bizarrely complex , but you really wonder if it was worth going after it.
https://www.commsec.com.au/support/learn/managing-investments/how-do-franking-credits-work.html

I'm still trying to get my head around it. Tell me if i'm missing something.

If you were making up a system and applying it to a small business. ( ie one shareholder ).
It would make sense that The company makes $10 000. The company pays $3000 tax. The owner of the company keeps the profits without further tax.

But then what if the Owner owned lots of these little companies, he could be earning millions with only paying 30% tax.
Its clearly not fair that his business has made $10 000, gets taxed $30% , then the owner gets taxed 60% of the remainder. The Government ends up taking a huge chunk.

So they then cancel out the company tax , and apply the profit to the owner as if its Income.
( Now my head is starting to hurt ).

So what is happening is that some pensioners are getting back the 30% tax that was already paid on their dividend i think, not as a deduction, but as an actual payment from the tax department.

Makes you kind of wonder , why do they bother taxing the company , if its going to be "untaxed" as soon as it gets to a real person.
If a company makes profit, they can only:
Take it out as profits. ( So tax the shareholders ).
Send the profits to head office ( So tax that ).

I'm also not sure why they have payroll tax, yes it makes money, but increases the cost of employing people, but we want to employ people. Why do we want to tax them for employing people.
Is it just because big companies have found ways to avoid paying tax , so the gov has tried to find other ways?
Surely it would have made more sense to tax "transfer payments".

Whole thing seems to be insanity designed by madmen, but i really wasn't worried about a few pensioners who got a check back for their franked dividends.

What about lifting the dole for those living in poverty? Would that bother you?

I'm still waiting for your top 5 list of Abbott's great achievements...

Thinking I have more chance of seen a Saints flag TBH.

 

[Stewart66]

I personally enjoy Foxtel over Netflix etc, they do need to lower prices and adapt with the times, I'm not unhappy about this predicament that they are in. Hopefully the consumer wine somehow, not that I'm holding my breath with Murdoch.

Nope cancelled Foxtel all the better for it.
Cancelled reading the Age & Herald Sun amazing how much better you feel without Slobbo & Caro in your life.

 

[Yawkey way]

Agree.

Shorten has an upside down triangle head which makes him less trustworthy.

His delivery always seems rehearsed and in my eyes, ge lacks passion. The only glimpse we got was when they questioned his mother.

Unfortunately it looks like we Now have a chequebook democracy.

Palmer wasn't as dumb as we think. He took enough votes and used his preferences to impact the result.

He will be partially reimbursed by the AEC. But his effect was better than simply donating to the libs. Kudos.

The guy who did our ads showing the agent taking a selfie with Porsche would have done a better job than the alp guy IMO.

Away they got it wrong on policy. Negative gearing changes during a price slump was suicidal. Even if it wasn't as bad as made out. Even investors I talk to didn't understand it.

I just hope they Slomo is pragmatic and moves to the centre now that Abbott is gone. If he is smart, he will go just that and guarantee himself another term.

If they instead drink their bath water and turn arrogant like Joyce was on Saturday night, then we are ******.

Shorten always looks like he needs a shower and a shave and his suits are ill fitting, that’s a lousy look when you’re running for PM.

Now Keating knew how to dress, I had a zenga suit and a couple of their shirts which where the finest I ever owned imo. Shop at Raouls in church street Brighton, they’ll look after you.

 

[Nutsngum]

Franking credits and Negative Gearing are effictevly both government subsidies on personal investments. Why either exist really boggles my mind and it is absolutely important to remove them from the system.

What was stupid though was going to the election with these notions. The average Australian doesn't really understand these systems and therefore can have it spun in a way that can come back and bite you.

That coupled with Labor's completely inadequate campaigning in rural and marginalised areas cost them dearly. They coasted on the idea that hard done by workers will "naturally vote labor" when they provided them little reason to actually do so.

The coalition did **** all as well mind you but support for the nationals is so ingrained that they already have a lot of that tied up anyway and they can boast about creating mining jobs (they actually will create barely any employment naturally) and the like because they have no vested interest in tackling climate change issues at all.

I expect the next three years to be an utter waste of time and money from Scomo, just like the Liberal tenure so far. My only hope is they don't **** up TOO much more like they already did with the NBN and the encryption laws.

Shorten always looks like he needs a shower and a shave and his suits are ill fitting, that’s a lousy look when you’re running for PM.

Now Keating knew how to dress, I had a zenga suit and a couple of their shirts which where the finest I ever owned imo. Shop at Raouls in church street Brighton, they’ll look after you.

Comparing Shorten to Keating is a little unfair. Keating was as quick witted as they came and had absolutely no qualms in annihating his opposition at any opportune time. Whether you entirely agree with what he did as PM he was a VERY strong leader and suffered at the end really with fall out of the 90s recession and the long ass Labor tenure by that point.

 

[gringo2011]

What about lifting the dole for those living in poverty? Would that bother you?

I'm still waiting for your top 5 list of Abbott's great achievements...

Thinking I have more chance of seen a Saints flag TBH.

Knighted a prince
Ate a raw onion s a publicity stunt
And, um white-anted the liberal party from the inside
Then, well lots of other good stuff

 

[Stewart66]

Funny how different people perceive things differently. Not really into the whole left-right paradigm but the only Australian broadcast news I get is the ABC on the Australia Plus channel.
Watching the election coverage I was staggered how often the ABC presenters were cheerleading the ALP. Even the following day, multiple times, ABC presenters were still pushing the ALP narrative.
Perhaps if others see it differently the ABC is managing to strike the balance.

Admittedly found the whole argument around "is it a tax or removal of a concession?" sad but hilarious.

Sadly I agree with George .

 

[gringo2011]

Franking credits and Negative Gearing are effictevly both government subsidies on personal investments. Why either exist really boggles my mind and it is absolutely important to remove them from the system.

What was stupid though was going to the election with these notions. The average Australian doesn't really understand these systems and therefore can have it spun in a way that can come back and bite you.

That coupled with Labor's completely inadequate campaigning in rural and marginalised areas cost them dearly. They coasted on the idea that hard done by workers will "naturally vote labor" when they provided them little reason to actually do so.

The coalition did **** all as well mind you but support for the nationals is so ingrained that they already have a lot of that tied up anyway and they can boast about creating mining jobs (they actually will create barely any employment naturally) and the like because they have no vested interest in tackling climate change issues at all.

I expect the next three years to be an utter waste of time and money from Scomo, just like the Liberal tenure so far. My only hope is they don't **** up TOO much more like they already did with the NBN and the encryption laws.



Comparing Shorten to Keating is a little unfair. Keating was as quick witted as they came and had absolutely no qualms in annihating his opposition at any opportune time. Whether you entirely agree with what he did as PM he was a VERY strong leader and suffered at the end really with fall out of the 90s recession and the long ass Labor tenure by that point.

I was listening to Raph Epstein on radio tonight, lots of rural Aussies were ringing in, most said climate change was BS and that it was a city persons worry. They want jobs. One guy said climate change was crap because his high school science teacher was a dick head, seemed like the sort of logic that possibly got Morrison back in. It was eye opening as to who votes out there.

 

[mightymalaka]

Knighted a prince
Ate a raw onion s a publicity stunt
And, um white-anted the liberal party from the inside
Then, well lots of other good stuff

Don't forget the Budgie Smugglers!

 

[Stewart66]

I was listening to Raph Epstein on radio tonight, lots of rural Aussies were ringing in, most said climate change was BS and that it was a city persons worry. They want jobs. One guy said climate change was crap because his high school science teacher was a dick head, seemed like the sort of logic that possibly got Morrison back in. It was eye opening as to who votes out there.

Agree 100 %

But that’s the dumbing down effect works a treat .

All governments Lie ....All politicians Lie become an art form these days.

 

[Stewart66]

Don't forget the Budgie Smugglers!

Or Lycra .

 

[VDS66]

Knighted a prince
Ate a raw onion s a publicity stunt
And, um white-anted the liberal party from the inside
Then, well lots of other good stuff

Voted against the abortion pill.

Stood by a convicted paedophile.

Abstained from voting on SSM despite the overwhelming decision of his constituents.

That's just off the top of my head.

The saddest part is that we have people like him and a devout Christian PM, who treat the poorest like shit, underfunded the ndis etc. All the qualities that made Jesus great, yeah?

 

[VDS66]

Or Lycra .

Told a reporter that soldiers dying is just "shit happens".

 

[Stewart66]

Told a reporter that soldiers dying is just "**** happens".

Lot of money is made from misery , charities run like corporations.
Ex Girlfriend worked at one long time ago
Everyone had Leased BMW as part of deal 90 % of the revenue went to admin costs


World Bank Ain’t in it for love