Discussion Random Discussion

[CursingFijian]

Ah yes the Guardian, a publication universally known for their unbiased reporting... I mean if the Guardian says so then they MUST be fascists right? I'm not saying anyone's right in this situation but one group is definitely more in the wrong and trying to pass off the blame saying "oh but they were instigated by those awful fascists" is insulting to these African kids intelligence. If it was a gang of rich white kids would you be blaming anti whites like the Greens for their crimes or them? I know who I'd be blaming.

The Guardian didn't tell me they are fascist. I recognize it all on my lonesome. I posted that article to try and drum up some debate about how things go to the next level when fascism connects with political parties.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

What? Can you actually provide any evidence of these alt right people using violence to get their way? Trust me I've tried and from what I've seen they actually make a point of being non violent even if their protesting is aggressive because they already know their reputation in the media. Before anyone accusses me of being a sympathiser I'm not really I just like to find out for myself rather than be told my sanctimonious journalists.

And even if that's what you believe about Blair Cottrell... He's still allowed to do that, he's not operating outside the bounds of freedom of speech in Australia.

I can give an example of how the alt right manage violence as i have seen it first hand ... in WA we have a family friendly beach that is pretty popular due to the lack of waves its a great place for little kids to have a swim its also fairly popular with imigrant familys of the muslim faith... not that long ago the Alt Right under their banner of the United Patriots Front decided to hold a gathering at this said area not based on any threat in the area not based on anything other than the fact its know to be frequented by these families... now i get its their right to be there and technically they are not breaking any law but the intimidation towards familys... im talking kids , grandparents females with infants they had a specific plan in mind they were stoking for a reaction to justify their retaliation ... most of the familys left feeling a sence of fear, anger, sadness and worthlessness some stood their ground , not getting the responce they were chasing they upped the ante and started to use words as weapons ... now i dont condone violence but at some point poking a bear is eventually going to get the responce a group of the males approached their group (funny enough thats when the UPF got out their cameras).. thankfully the police rocked up at that point and the only violence was a bit of push and shove but had the police not got involved it would have sparked up ... so while technically they were not violent they were inciting violence ...

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

When they elected Muslim senators who don't like to many white peiple at their rallies or who try to eradicate "white" traditions or who blame white racists when they receivehate mail for saying racist things...

Have a look at Sarah Hanson-Young's or especially Mehreen Faruqi's. They're both hateful towards anyone who's a male or white then cry racism and sexism anyone calls themout for it.

ummm thats a bit tinfoil hat territory Crusty ... what "white" traditions are they trying to erradicate ? from what i have seen from Greens rallys they are pretty much open to and for anyone obviously if someone enters those rallies to stir trouble security will remove them (just as they would from a libs rally or labor rally or a PHON rally)..
im not a huge SHY fan i think she tends to lose perspective of what is important and gets suckered into battling PHanson instead of actually campagning for the issues but i dont think she is hateful to males , i think she doesnt stand for males who degrade her, i think she fights back against males who try to impose double standard on her ... i mean lets get real here she has called out sexism in a case that is blatantly sexism yet thats a negative ?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

In the SE Suburbs , my daughter was stuck in traffic, while a group of very large guys with dark skin ( at risk of incorrectly labeling them ) were heading towards her from the traffic lights, smashing windscreens and panels with baseball bats of each car. Can you imagine the fear a skinny 19 year old has when something like this happens? They ran off when cops arrived, before they got to her car.
Not reported on the news. We've had carjackings in the area.
I almost welcome their move to StKilda, because with a higher profile at least SOME people might realize its a real issue and its happening.
The fascists are offensive idiots, ( i've seen them in action at community meetings and they risk derailing some of the things they pertain to be supporting ).
But i'm also pretty pissed at people like the guy in the guardian that tells me not to believe reality.

look please dont take this the wrong way as im just using your story here as an example....
so in this recount the crime is clearly the smashing of property , and i can totally appriciate the fear your daughter had , very traumatic .. but i would say the case would not be any less traumatic if the skin colour of the person was white or if it was asian or if they were female or if they were 30 yearolds or if they were 40 yearolds ... the crime would be just as bad and the fear your daughter felt would be just as appropriate... yet in that situation the Alt Right would only have an issue with that crime if commited by one demographic ... crimes are committed every day by all kinds of people of all kinds of races and beliefs but when you single out one crime purely because the criminal has a destinctive apperance then we have an issue ..

 

[Yawkey way]

In the SE Suburbs , my daughter was stuck in traffic, while a group of very large guys with dark skin ( at risk of incorrectly labeling them ) were heading towards her from the traffic lights, smashing windscreens and panels with baseball bats of each car. Can you imagine the fear a skinny 19 year old has when something like this happens? They ran off when cops arrived, before they got to her car.
Not reported on the news. We've had carjackings in the area.
I almost welcome their move to StKilda, because with a higher profile at least SOME people might realize its a real issue and its happening.
The fascists are offensive idiots, ( i've seen them in action at community meetings and they risk derailing some of the things they pertain to be supporting ).
But i'm also pretty pissed at people like the guy in the guardian that tells me not to believe reality.

I had a surreal experience with some African youths back in 2011 in Dandenong.

I had to visit an office in the city it was mid morning and I was driving down a fairly major street, a group of them just walked out in front of me and the oncoming traffic causing everybody to stop. It was the biggest Fck you I have seen to be honest they just sauntered out daring people to run them over. My wife went in and dealt with our business and I just sat and watched as this group worked it’s way from confrontation to confrontation down both sides of the street. I was parked outside an afgan restaurant if memory serves me correctly.

I was just speechless to be frank and I can remember thinking at the time that i was bloody glad it wasn’t on my patch. I went on down and had a nice lunch in flinders then drove home but I’ve never forgotten that encounter. I don’t know what people are meant to do but this will only get worse unless this is treated as a serious law and order problem.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

look please dont take this the wrong way as im just using your story here as an example....
so in this recount the crime is clearly the smashing of property , and i can totally appriciate the fear your daughter had , very traumatic .. but i would say the case would not be any less traumatic if the skin colour of the person was white or if it was asian or if they were female or if they were 30 yearolds or if they were 40 yearolds ... the crime would be just as bad and the fear your daughter felt would be just as appropriate... yet in that situation the Alt Right would only have an issue with that crime if commited by one demographic ... crimes are committed every day by all kinds of people of all kinds of races and beliefs but when you single out one crime purely because the criminal has a destinctive apperance then we have an issue ..

Look the alt right are idiots as i've said several time, and i agree with you, and simultaneously don't care who they have an issue with.

But a lot of these sorts of crimes are being done by Africans. I had occasion to talk to some cops after a car was stolen from my garage. They said they generally know who the problem makers are, they lock them up, the courts let them out.
My daughter has only seen the one example.
I've only seen people drive off in my car once.
Over-represented is probably what the statisticians would say.

I know why, but knowing why doesn't mean its right. We did a bad job of choosing refugees and settling them.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I had a surreal experience with some African youths back in 2011 in Dandenong.

I had to visit an office in the city it was mid morning and I was driving down a fairly major street, a group of them just walked out in front of me and the oncoming traffic causing everybody to stop. It was the biggest Fck you I have seen to be honest they just sauntered out daring people to run them over. My wife went in and dealt with our business and I just sat and watched as this group worked it’s way from confrontation to confrontation down both sides of the street. I was parked outside an afgan restaurant if memory serves me correctly.

I was just speechless to be frank and I can remember thinking at the time that i was bloody glad it wasn’t on my patch. I went on down and had a nice lunch in flinders then drove home but I’ve never forgotten that encounter. I don’t know what people are meant to do but this will only get worse unless this is treated as a serious law and order problem.

but is the issue that they were thugs or that they were African thugs ?
i mean lets be real here a crime is a crime regardless of who is comitting it ... the question is though is there enough evidence to show the crime being commited by African decented people is significant enough to say there is an issue.. and if that is the case what steps can be made to turn that around... i dont think isolation and protest is really going to fix the issue

 

[Crusty Undies]

look please dont take this the wrong way as im just using your story here as an example....
so in this recount the crime is clearly the smashing of property , and i can totally appriciate the fear your daughter had , very traumatic .. but i would say the case would not be any less traumatic if the skin colour of the person was white or if it was asian or if they were female or if they were 30 yearolds or if they were 40 yearolds ... the crime would be just as bad and the fear your daughter felt would be just as appropriate... yet in that situation the Alt Right would only have an issue with that crime if commited by one demographic ... crimes are committed every day by all kinds of people of all kinds of races and beliefs but when you single out one crime purely because the criminal has a destinctive apperance then we have an issue ..

Yes but no one else in Melbourne is walking down a busy street in a group bashing in people's windows.

 

[Crusty Undies]

ummm thats a bit tinfoil hat territory Crusty ... what "white" traditions are they trying to erradicate ? from what i have seen from Greens rallys they are pretty much open to and for anyone obviously if someone enters those rallies to stir trouble security will remove them (just as they would from a libs rally or labor rally or a PHON rally)..
im not a huge SHY fan i think she tends to lose perspective of what is important and gets suckered into battling PHanson instead of actually campagning for the issues but i dont think she is hateful to males , i think she doesnt stand for males who degrade her, i think she fights back against males who try to impose double standard on her ... i mean lets get real here she has called out sexism in a case that is blatantly sexism yet thats a negative ?

You believe what you want to about her. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that she hates white people and hates men. In terms of traditions well; horse racing, dayd off for sport, Australia day, saying Merry Christmas etc etc etc. She's gone after them all and so has Mehreen Faruqi who I also mentioned. Not only that though Faruqi has attendes multiple pro palestine rallies and essentially endorsed terrorist organisations operating out of Palestine such as Hamas and Hesbollah. If being a huuuge anti semite isn't anti white then what is?
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/sydney-protest-calls-for-intifada/

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Look the alt right are idiots as i've said several time, and i agree with you, and simultaneously don't care who they have an issue with.

But a lot of these sorts of crimes are being done by Africans. I had occasion to talk to some cops after a car was stolen from my garage. They said they generally know who the problem makers are, they lock them up, the courts let them out.
My daughter has only seen the one example.
I've only seen people drive off in my car once.
Over-represented is probably what the statisticians would say.

I know why, but knowing why doesn't mean its right. We did a bad job of choosing refugees and settling them.

statistics are an interesting thing to look at in this regards as depending on what statistic you look at you can find the root of the problem ...
looking at the sex demographic for crime you could say males are the problem
looking at the age demographic for crime you could say 16-20 yearolds are the problem
looking at the race demographic for crime you could say white australians are the problem
looking at the race demographic weighted by representation of population african decent is the problem

i remember a stat i once read from the US ( i can find the link so sorry) but it was explaining the link of African americans and crime where the stat that was most telling was not so much the race of the crimials but the social ecconomic demographic of the criminals , basically poor people commit more crime, black america makes up a large % of poor people hence the spike in that demographic

i dont think its a problem of migration or refugees we are bringing in i think its more to do with the widening gap between the social ecconomic classes ... when people have nothing they have nothing to lose when they have nothing and want more they will work to get more if the opportunity to get more isnt there they will then take what they want ...
theres a multi layers to the problem but one thing i am certain of and that is singleing out of one specific demographic almost never leads to the issue getting better

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Yes but no one else in Melbourne is walking down a busy street in a group bashing in people's windows.

are we certain of that ? crime doesnt seem to be exclusivly the domain of dark skinned people ....
lets break this down another way lets look at argubly a significantly worse crime of child sexual exploitation now demographically speacking white males are the biggest offenders in this, there is a huge over representation of this in one specific sect of white males being religious leaders... now why do we not have protests from Blair about that ? where are the Alt right in this crime epidemic ? we want to talk about damage done , windows can be repaired lives really cant so where is that outrage?

 

[CursingFijian]

An interesting twitter thread.

 

[Crusty Undies]

are we certain of that ? crime doesnt seem to be exclusivly the domain of dark skinned people ....
lets break this down another way lets look at argubly a significantly worse crime of child sexual exploitation now demographically speacking white males are the biggest offenders in this, there is a huge over representation of this in one specific sect of white males being religious leaders... now why do we not have protests from Blair about that ? where are the Alt right in this crime epidemic ? we want to talk about damage done , windows can be repaired lives really cant so where is that outrage?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/...w/news-story/8ca308022ba8fbbc4b89ed50504271c5

Yeah actually I'm pretty certain there's a problem when they're 44 times more likely to break a law than anyone else in Australia.

Also I'm right there with you in the trenches in regards to the church being filled child molesters and I despise how they repeatedly get away with it by brushing it off as "only some priests". Clearly there is a problem in the church and in the same way, there is a problem in the African immigrant community in Australia, specifically in Melbourne.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Also let me just add that I don't like Blair Cottrell, I'm not arguing about whether or not he's in the right tbh. I'm arguing that there is a problem with African gang related crime in Melbourne. By the same token I'm not trying to argue that you support Antifa when they're constantly more egregious than any other political group in the developed world, can we please stick to each other's arguments rather than people or groups we try to identify each other with? <3

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The issue is not Africans.

The issue is immigrants chosen by our government. They have chosen Immigrants who won't assimilate well and who will act violently in a manner which our society is not accustomed.

-- Irrelevant detail : they are from Africa.

It doesn't make the situation better if someone says, "but wait some white guy did something wrong "

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

You believe what you want to about her. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that she hates white people and hates men. In terms of traditions well; horse racing, dayd off for sport, Australia day, saying Merry Christmas etc etc etc. She's gone after them all and so has Mehreen Faruqi who I also mentioned. Not only that though Faruqi has attendes multiple pro palestine rallies and essentially endorsed terrorist organisations operating out of Palestine such as Hamas and Hesbollah. If being a huuuge anti semite isn't anti white then what is?
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/sydney-protest-calls-for-intifada/

wow ..... really just wow ...
hating male sexist pigs is not hating men its hating sexist pigs who happen to be male. i highly doubt SHY would hate me but im pretty certain if i went the grope on her or if i treated her like a lesser person cause she doesnt have jangly bits between her legs she would prob hate me ...
remind me again how is horse racing a "white" thing
i have no idea what you mean about a day off for sport
i think you will find she is against the date of Australia Day not the national day (again how is this a "white" thing)
saying Merry Christmas i mean come on thats just stupid where has she said you can say merry christmas and again when did Christmas become a "white" thing ???
as for Palistine im not going down that rabbit hole that fight over a patch of land that has been going for generations is a waste of time discussing and arguing over , no side is right , both sides are guilty of crimes against eachother and both sides have blood on their hands

 

[Yawkey way]

but is the issue that they were thugs or that they were African thugs ?
i mean lets be real here a crime is a crime regardless of who is comitting it ... the question is though is there enough evidence to show the crime being commited by African decented people is significant enough to say there is an issue.. and if that is the case what steps can be made to turn that around... i dont think isolation and protest is really going to fix the issue

Generally protests are a waste of time these days, they are either taken over by fringe groups or turn into battles between fringe groups.

Crime is crime but in my case coming from an area where at that time I had only read about problems with African youth yeah I’ll be honest it was pretty confronting and yes I did wonder about the suitability of youth from lawless countries as refugee candidates. If I had the same experience with Asian kids or Caucasians I’d be telling the same story and asking the same questions.

Yes it’s statistically significant, obviously it’s a minority but that’s the same for every group. If I was the responsible minister I’d definitely want some answers and recommendations.

Yeah the immigration debate definitely needs to be had imo, to not ask who and how many is just straight up negligence. Remembering that only a very small percentage are refugees so we already supposedly have both a quota and a set of rules.

 

[Crusty Undies]

wow ..... really just wow ...
hating male sexist pigs is not hating men its hating sexist pigs who happen to be male. i highly doubt SHY would hate me but im pretty certain if i went the grope on her or if i treated her like a lesser person cause she doesnt have jangly bits between her legs she would prob hate me ...
remind me again how is horse racing a "white" thing
i have no idea what you mean about a day off for sport
i think you will find she is against the date of Australia Day not the national day (again how is this a "white" thing)
saying Merry Christmas i mean come on thats just stupid where has she said you can say merry christmas and again when did Christmas become a "white" thing ???
as for Palistine im not going down that rabbit hole that fight over a patch of land that has been going for generations is a waste of time discussing and arguing over , no side is right , both sides are guilty of crimes against eachother and both sides have blood on their hands

So tell me again how she doesn't hate men or think that we're all rapists?
Horse racing is definitely a white thing in Australia come on. How many Asians have you seen at the races?
And yes being against the date is synonymous with being against the day in my eyes. Moving the date won't satisfy her, after it's moved she'll want it removed.
Christmas is quite literally a Christian thing, most Christians/Catholics are white... And she was one of the people saying you should say happy holidays instead of merry christmas because it's more "inclusive".
And it's funny how willing people are to dismiss both sides of the Israel/Palestine conflict, but only one side has used children as bombs to kill the other, only one has aimed to kill civilians to try and bully the other into submission, only one actively tries to invade the other. But yeah those poor Palestinians and their terrorist organisation that facades as a government, how unlucky they are to kill those evil zionist jews. I'm not jewish or religious btw it's still stupid though.

 

[Saints43]

...this will only get worse unless this is treated as a serious law and order problem.

Is it a law and order problem though? I live in Flemington/Kensington and there are *thousands* of African people living in the area.
There are hundreds of businesses in the area.
In fifteen years of living here I've *never* seen an African person working on a business that isn't African owned.
Would you reckon that no African person has ever wanted a job in the area? It's unfathomable.
We can't continually exclude people from the community and then expect them to 'fit in or **** off'.
Lack of opportunity and disaffection has always resulted in antisocial behavior. Including in monocultures.

PS. I have created a Facebook group called '3031 Saints' for Flemington/Kensington/surrounds Saints supporters to get together and watch interstate games at a pub together. Give the page a like if you're interested.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/560069181106327/?ref=share

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/...w/news-story/8ca308022ba8fbbc4b89ed50504271c5

Yeah actually I'm pretty certain there's a problem when they're 44 times more likely to break a law than anyone else in Australia.

Also I'm right there with you in the trenches in regards to the church being filled child molesters and I despise how they repeatedly get away with it by brushing it off as "only some priests". Clearly there is a problem in the church and in the same way, there is a problem in the African immigrant community in Australia, specifically in Melbourne.

and this is the main point im trying to get to the bottom of .. ive read the articles ive seen the news but im still none the wiser as to if this is a specific issue or if its being overplayed ...
ok so we have a stat here that says a Sudanese person is 44 times more likely to commit a crime , why is that ? what makes that figure so high what is the root cause of that statistic ... is it because they are Sudanese or is it because they are from a poor social ecconomic group? Aboriginal australians also have this over representation in this situation as well so how do we fix that how do we change that cycle ? do we think isolation is going to work is fear going to change the trend ? we know voilence against violence doesnt work

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

The issue is not Africans.

The issue is immigrants chosen by our government. They have chosen Immigrants who won't assimilate well and who will act violently in a manner which our society is not accustomed.

-- Irrelevant detail : they are from Africa.

It doesn't make the situation better if someone says, "but wait some white guy did something wrong "

ok so we talk about assimilation ... thats a great topic and i have my own beliefs around that , basically i see assimilation as a two way street as much as the person coming here needs to be mindful and respectful of the customs and traditions of here the inhabitants also need to be mindful and respectful of the customs and traditions of those coming here , its not a case of you come here you do all the changing to fit in , we learn this as kids when we meet new people that to become friends with people you have to get to know them as they get to know you its a give and take prospect , if a person is all push and no take then the chances are a friendship will not develop.. for many migrants the hardest part of coming to Australia is the part of fitting in especially when people already have a perception of you before they meet you..

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

So tell me again how she doesn't hate men or think that we're all rapists?
Horse racing is definitely a white thing in Australia come on. How many Asians have you seen at the races?
And yes being against the date is synonymous with being against the day in my eyes. Moving the date won't satisfy her, after it's moved she'll want it removed.
Christmas is quite literally a Christian thing, most Christians/Catholics are white... And she was one of the people saying you should say happy holidays instead of merry christmas because it's more "inclusive".
And it's funny how willing people are to dismiss both sides of the Israel/Palestine conflict, but only one side has used children as bombs to kill the other, only one has aimed to kill civilians to try and bully the other into submission, only one actively tries to invade the other. But yeah those poor Palestinians and their terrorist organisation that facades as a government, how unlucky they are to kill those evil zionist jews. I'm not jewish or religious btw it's still stupid though.

ok firstly i have no idea what you are saying SHY has said about horse racing so i cant say either way if you are right or wrong but horse racing is most certainly not a white person thing .. im going to guess that the issue she has around horse racing is more to do with the exploitation of animals for gambling i wouldnt expect she would be against horse racing to punish the white man ...

as for Australia day its not about satisfying her , Aboriginal Australia has been pretty clear and pretty vocal as to why they would like that date changed, im pretty certain a celebration of our nation would be welcomed by all provided it wasnt on a date linked with the start of generations of hurt and pain... but again i dont think she supports change the date because she wants to punish white males ...
most Catholics and Christians are white .... funny the top three countrys with the highest catholic numbers are
1. Brazil
2. Mexico
3. The Philippines
so where are you getting these stats from ???? also the "happy holidays" saying originated from the american culture as a sensitivity towards the jewish community who while not celebrating christmas do observe a religious holiday in that period ... and as you say "the jews are white" so how is she being anti white ??

face it she is a confident outspoken female and that scares the shit out of certain white males so they paint her as a man hater cause its easier to do that then admit she makes them feel uncomfortable

 

[Yawkey way]

Is it a law and order problem though? I live in Flemington/Kensington and there are *thousands* of African people living in the area.
There are hundreds of businesses in the area.
In fifteen years of living here I've *never* seen an African person working on a business that isn't African owned.
Would you reckon that no African person has ever wanted a job in the area? It's unfathomable.
We can't continually exclude people from the community and then expect them to 'fit in or **** off'.
Lack of opportunity and disaffection has always resulted in antisocial behavior. Including in monocultures.

PS. I have created a Facebook group called '3031 Saints' for Flemington/Kensington/surrounds Saints supporters to get together and watch interstate games at a pub together. Give the page a like if you're interested.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/560069181106327/?ref=share

Yes it’s pretty hard to belong when you’re excluded, all the data of the different groups is there and readily available.

Dozens of questions though, have we brought in illiterate people with poor English skills.

I don’t think for a minute any of these things are solved by clicking your fingers, I just really dislike the way we can’t have a sensible debate about anything without it getting hijacked by one fringe group or another.

Everybody who has lived here and seen the post war immigration growth has seen and known countless migrants who have come here worked hard and generally done very well. That’s not to say we haven’t had bumps along the way but I think we’re demonstrably pretty successful as a multicultural society.

I still think that until the waves of Vietnamese we really largely just assimilated ourselves in the sense that most were white and Christian. Maybe it’s a tougher ask with some groups, do we have any stats on how well different groups have settled in other countries that would be interesting.

I still keep coming back to the fact that immigration is meant to benifit us, if it doesn’t then it’s an epic fail.

 

[VDS66]

When I was kid it was Vietnamese gangs. Before that the Oakleigh wogs and Lebanese tigers.

Some the actions I witnessed were pretty bad.

And before all these migrants the crime rate was zero, right?

Good and bad in every race colour and religion.

Sadly we hear nothing about the Triads, Russian Mafia and bikie gangs.

Whilst there are the usual issues, the Sudanese the the latest scapegoats IMO.

The problem is if a white man robs a bank, it's a bank robbery. If an African does it, his race is pointed out.

White man runs people over in Bourne St he's mentally ill.

Muslim runs people over, he's a terrorist.

 

[St Muir]

Toss up between this and the Richo thread which is the most controversial....Maybe Richo could be appointed as some sort of cultural ambassador to assist Somalian immigrants/refugees? I could certainly see him take some of the emotional heat out of the issue.