Discussion Random Discussion

[st_trav_ofWA]

reading all these accounts really rams home to me the point that we deserve better than what we accept as acceptable in our society .. far to many people get left behind or pushed aside and forgoten about

 

[George]

reading all these accounts really rams home to me the point that we deserve better than what we accept as acceptable in our society .. far to many people get left behind or pushed aside and forgoten about

Well, at least the Liberals will save us

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Well, at least the Liberals will save us

in all honesty i cant be deverstated by the libs winning ... i didnt want them too but the end of the day if it was blue or red running the country neither of them have the strenght of leadership will do anything to really make a fiddlesticks of differance to change our lives positively .... we are no more stuffed today as we were on Friday ..
the rich will still be rich , the poor will still be poor ...

this election in my opinion was like having a pocket full of change and walking past a homless person asking for some spare change and saying sorry got none .. the pocket full of change makes you richer but not rich enough to better life for you ...
Australia voted libs cause they wanted to keep the spare change in their pocket instead of doing something with it ...

the promising thing is technology cant be held back as much as the old white dudes who dont understand it will try change is already happening but instead of being in the drivers seat for that change we will be stuck hitching a ride as it zooms past ...

 

[George]

in all honesty i cant be deverstated by the libs winning ... i didnt want them too but the end of the day if it was blue or red running the country neither of them have the strenght of leadership will do anything to really make a fiddlesticks of differance to change our lives positively .... we are no more stuffed today as we were on Friday ..
the rich will still be rich , the poor will still be poor ...

this election in my opinion was like having a pocket full of change and walking past a homless person asking for some spare change and saying sorry got none .. the pocket full of change makes you richer but not rich enough to better life for you ...
Australia voted libs cause they wanted to keep the spare change in their pocket instead of doing something with it ...

the promising thing is technology cant be held back as much as the old white dudes who dont understand it will try change is already happening but instead of being in the drivers seat for that change we will be stuck hitching a ride as it zooms past ...

Fair enough. I think the Liberals are killing this country, taking hundreds of millions out of education and healthcare. People say the ALP aren't good with money well depends what you spend it on and debt is only an issue if you can't service it. If it weren't for Labor we would've had a recession in the late 00's.

Just frustrating that so many people will believe what the media tells them. You may not think anything will change but I think that's only a short term view. Long term it will ruin us as long as they are in charge. For instance we are ranked 39 out of 41 countries for quality education - the Libs absolutely gutting the education system. Kazakhstan ahead of us. And of course the idiots who draw dicks on their ballot or vote for the Sex party or some other minority that has no realistic chance of administering real, important change.

Anyway I guess nothing will change as long as the Murdoch press dominate the landscape.

 

[VDS66]

In a nutshell...

https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/fe...t-and-why-no-one-noticed-20190519-p51ox6.html

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Fair enough. I think the Liberals are killing this country, taking hundreds of millions out of education and healthcare. People say the ALP aren't good with money well depends what you spend it on and debt is only an issue if you can't service it. If it weren't for Labor we would've had a recession in the late 00's.

Just frustrating that so many people will believe what the media tells them. You may not think anything will change but I think that's only a short term view. Long term it will ruin us as long as they are in charge. For instance we are ranked 39 out of 41 countries for quality education - the Libs absolutely gutting the education system. Kazakhstan ahead of us. And of course the idiots who draw dicks on their ballot or vote for the Sex party or some other minority that has no realistic chance of administering real, important change.

Anyway I guess nothing will change as long as the Murdoch press dominate the landscape.

maybe its just the mood im in but im at the point now where im accepting that the general public dont give a rats about being better ... we are so self involved and so stuck serving our own self interest to really give a rats about anything .. education is a joke ... healthcare is a farce, our telecomunications network is third world, our reliance on fossil fuel is ingrained ... our nation are dumber , less welcoming and greedy but no one can make the change unless we want to make the change for ourselves ...
looking at our history today i cant help but wonder how events like the industial revolution would have played out with our leaders ... could you imagine in the age of innovation holding back that innovation because its a bit expensive... hell imagine not developing things like the printing press cause it was more costly than pen and paper ..
the worst of it is the ruling generation of today are pushing the next generation down so far that come the time for that generation to take over they wont know how to or not be bothered to ..

 

[VDS66]

maybe its just the mood im in but im at the point now where im accepting that the general public dont give a rats about being better ... we are so self involved and so stuck serving our own self interest to really give a rats about anything .. education is a joke ... healthcare is a farce, our telecomunications network is third world, our reliance on fossil fuel is ingrained ... our nation are dumber , less welcoming and greedy but no one can make the change unless we want to make the change for ourselves ...
looking at our history today i cant help but wonder how events like the industial revolution would have played out with our leaders ... could you imagine in the age of innovation holding back that innovation because its a bit expensive... hell imagine not developing things like the printing press cause it was more costly than pen and paper ..
the worst of it is the ruling generation of today are pushing the next generation down so far that come the time for that generation to take over they wont know how to or not be bothered to ..

Pretty accurate summation IMO.

It's up to the millenials to demand change.

I read great quote from Chomsky yesterday along the lines that as soon as a kid goes into debt for their degree, they are immediately indoctrinated into serving the master... Or something to that effect.

 

[George]

maybe its just the mood im in but im at the point now where im accepting that the general public dont give a rats about being better ... we are so self involved and so stuck serving our own self interest to really give a rats about anything .. education is a joke ... healthcare is a farce, our telecomunications network is third world, our reliance on fossil fuel is ingrained ... our nation are dumber , less welcoming and greedy but no one can make the change unless we want to make the change for ourselves ...
looking at our history today i cant help but wonder how events like the industial revolution would have played out with our leaders ... could you imagine in the age of innovation holding back that innovation because its a bit expensive... hell imagine not developing things like the printing press cause it was more costly than pen and paper ..
the worst of it is the ruling generation of today are pushing the next generation down so far that come the time for that generation to take over they wont know how to or not be bothered to ..

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head mate. We are stuffed. Feels all a bit helpless doesn't it. I worry for the generation after mine.

 

[Mowman]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head mate. We are stuffed. Feels all a bit helpless doesn't it. I worry for the generation after mine.

Jesus man this isn’t the Richo thread lol bloody negativity on here driving me mad
We will be ok mate I only have to look and listen to my two kids and there friends to realise we wil be fine, so much more tuned into most things then my age bracket was

Our whole political system lacks good strong leadership but it’s poor labelling people red knecks - stupid ect because they didn’t vote a certain way

 

[George]

it’s poor labelling people red knecks - stupid ect because they didn’t vote a certain way

Are you referring to me?

 

[Mowman]

Are you referring to me?

Not all mate
Just in general a lot people upset things didn’t go the way they wanted

 

[SaintsSeptember]

maybe its just the mood im in but im at the point now where im accepting that the general public dont give a rats about being better ... we are so self involved and so stuck serving our own self interest to really give a rats about anything .. education is a joke ... healthcare is a farce, our telecomunications network is third world, our reliance on fossil fuel is ingrained ... our nation are dumber , less welcoming and greedy but no one can make the change unless we want to make the change for ourselves ...
looking at our history today i cant help but wonder how events like the industial revolution would have played out with our leaders ... could you imagine in the age of innovation holding back that innovation because its a bit expensive... hell imagine not developing things like the printing press cause it was more costly than pen and paper ..
the worst of it is the ruling generation of today are pushing the next generation down so far that come the time for that generation to take over they wont know how to or not be bothered to ..

1. Wrong
https://www.master-and-more.eu/en/top-40-education-systems-in-the-world/
My problem with it is we always talk about improving it in terms of dollars. More money=more education. That doesn't necessarily follow.

2. Wrong
https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...ries-with-the-best-public-health-systems.html


3. Wrong
https://www.budde.com.au/Research/Global-Telecoms-Maturity-Index-Top-20-Countries
( the USA for example have great internet in New York, but don't hope for too much in the back woods ).

4. Yes we are like most countries of our size and wealth.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-the-most-dependent-on-fossil-fuels.html
Unfortunately we will need to BUILD alternative energy systems....then we have this problem.

http://www.primecapital.com/the-high-cost-of-building-in-australia/


Fact is we do ok for a place that can't do much except dig for minerals, and grow food ( often not even processed ie...live sheep export ).

The industrial revolution was not handed out on a platter by a government. Big COMPANIES used printing presses to displace their pen and paper writers. IT SAVED THEM MONEY. Australia has been great at not using technology to improve things. We are littered with factories and the like that were built in the 50's and 60's and never really updated to a large degree. Technology here costs a lot. Construction here costs a lot. No-one anywhere pays so much money for a little piss-ass desalination plant like Victoria built.

Technology has not been provided by any government its been driven by big companies.
Technology is not invented by some clever guy in his shed. And if it did, he'd sell it to a big company overseas.
We have no big companies. We have made Australia a "yukky" place for such companies. We'd outsource mining if it was possible.
We don't provide an environment where businesses can thrive. We prefer to consider them evil.

Course you have to do it for yourself. No place anywhere will give you everything.

You seem to want to just spend money.
We don't make stuff in Australia, so the costs of Medical equipment , solar equipment.
If we spend more than we have, we end up like Greece. Then all your complaints will become reality.

Or are you suggesting we bump up the GST and double the income tax?

 

[George]

Not all mate
Just in general

Fair enough. For what it's worth I agree with you.

I did say something to that effect but what I meant was people who don't take it seriously.

 

[Yawkey way]

in all honesty i cant be deverstated by the libs winning ... i didnt want them too but the end of the day if it was blue or red running the country neither of them have the strenght of leadership will do anything to really make a fiddlesticks of differance to change our lives positively .... we are no more stuffed today as we were on Friday ..
the rich will still be rich , the poor will still be poor ...

this election in my opinion was like having a pocket full of change and walking past a homless person asking for some spare change and saying sorry got none .. the pocket full of change makes you richer but not rich enough to better life for you ...
Australia voted libs cause they wanted to keep the spare change in their pocket instead of doing something with it ...

the promising thing is technology cant be held back as much as the old white dudes who dont understand it will try change is already happening but instead of being in the drivers seat for that change we will be stuck hitching a ride as it zooms past ...

I’m not surprised, you live in a conservative state and as such attitudes will be somewhat different as will the issues.

It’s interesting because the median age of the population of both states is roughly the same, so clearly what was important varied from state to state if not seat to seat. I think the liberals targeted seats better and simply ran a more effective campaign.

I wouldn’t worry too much, the libs can talk about a mandate all they like but the reality is as always you need the numbers in both houses. I wonder what labour’s margin would have been had they run the perfect campaign and just how much of their agenda they would have been able to deliver. Seriously though if people really want change then join a party and make yourselves heard.

 

[George]

1. Wrong
https://www.master-and-more.eu/en/top-40-education-systems-in-the-world/
My problem with it is we always talk about improving it in terms of dollars. More money=more education. That doesn't necessarily follow.

2. Wrong
https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...ries-with-the-best-public-health-systems.html


3. Wrong
https://www.budde.com.au/Research/Global-Telecoms-Maturity-Index-Top-20-Countries
( the USA for example have great internet in New York, but don't hope for too much in the back woods ).

4. Yes we are like most countries of our size and wealth.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-the-most-dependent-on-fossil-fuels.html
Unfortunately we will need to BUILD alternative energy systems....then we have this problem.

http://www.primecapital.com/the-high-cost-of-building-in-australia/


Fact is we do ok for a place that can't do much except dig for minerals, and grow food ( often not even processed ie...live sheep export ).

The industrial revolution was not handed out on a platter by a government. Big COMPANIES used printing presses to displace their pen and paper writers. IT SAVED THEM MONEY. Australia has been great at not using technology to improve things. We are littered with factories and the like that were built in the 50's and 60's and never really updated to a large degree. Technology here costs a lot. Construction here costs a lot. No-one anywhere pays so much money for a little piss-ass desalination plant like Victoria built.

Technology has not been provided by any government its been driven by big companies.
Technology is not invented by some clever guy in his shed. And if it did, he'd sell it to a big company overseas.
We have no big companies. We have made Australia a "yukky" place for such companies. We'd outsource mining if it was possible.
We don't provide an environment where businesses can thrive. We prefer to consider them evil.

Course you have to do it for yourself. No place anywhere will give you everything.

You seem to want to just spend money.
We don't make stuff in Australia, so the costs of Medical equipment , solar equipment.
If we spend more than we have, we end up like Greece. Then all your complaints will become reality.

Or are you suggesting we bump up the GST and double the income tax?

Education:
http://www.educationmattersmag.com.au/unicef-report-card-ranks-australia-3941-in-education/

Healthcare:
They tried to cut $57 billion from hospitals.
They tried to force up the cost of seeing a doctor with their GP Tax.
They tried to force up the cost of all prescription medicines, even for pensioners.
They cut $10 billion from other health programs and agencies.
$2.8 billion to public hospital cuts.

Internet:
NBN stuff up is self explanatory, and according to studies done in 2018 we are ranked 55th in the world for internet speed.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/con...d-slower-than-kazakhstan-20180108-p4yyb1.html

Keep in mind we're a developed nation.

 

[Yawkey way]

Not all mate
Just in general a lot people upset things didn’t go the way they wanted

Hahah clearly a minority of people as it turns out.

I just find the whole business of politics fascinating, but you’re right people have a right to vote as they see fit. One encouraging outcome was that getup largely wasted a lot of money, I’m not keen on aggressive third party activist groups.

 

[StCicatriz]

Hope all is well mate...that's really sad to hear. Really puts things into perspective.

It hits a bit too close to home for me as well, so in a small way I can appreciate the struggles your son would've had to go through. My father suffered from anxiety & clinical depression. He passed away in 2014 (I was 23) and I too suffer from it which has grown worse since his passing given I had to shoulder the responsibility of being a father figure to my two younger siblings and financially support my entire family given our circumstance. To say the illness is debilitating is an understatement and something people have to deal with every day of their lives.

I hope things with your son weren't made worse by people too ignorant to understand it, and I hope he didn't see it as a weakness. To anyone else here doing it tough...support groups are great for seeking some help, and although I haven't been I have friends that have and just being there as a mate for them I understood that those that find pleasure in ridiculing others are the ones that are truly weak. It's easy to deliberately make fun of people when you don't know what they are going through or what they have been through - and it's more of a reflection of the sadness in their own lives than what is going on in yours.

All the best mate

geeze mate that's horrible! nothing anyone can say can make things better, but i hope but nothing but happiness for you. hopefully with each day it gets easier.

 

[StCicatriz]

in all honesty i cant be deverstated by the libs winning ... i didnt want them too but the end of the day if it was blue or red running the country neither of them have the strenght of leadership will do anything to really make a fiddlesticks of differance to change our lives positively .... we are no more stuffed today as we were on Friday ..
the rich will still be rich , the poor will still be poor ...

this election in my opinion was like having a pocket full of change and walking past a homless person asking for some spare change and saying sorry got none .. the pocket full of change makes you richer but not rich enough to better life for you ...
Australia voted libs cause they wanted to keep the spare change in their pocket instead of doing something with it ...

the promising thing is technology cant be held back as much as the old white dudes who dont understand it will try change is already happening but instead of being in the drivers seat for that change we will be stuck hitching a ride as it zooms past ...

couldn't agree more with everything said except the old white dudes comment. its racist, should be called out as such and the reality is very different. there's literally no difference between the "boat people" argument from the far right and the "old crusty white dudes" argument from the super woke on the left. it's the same old xenophobic crap. create a stereotype and blame all our woes on that. creates nothing but division and moves the argument away from the actual challenges we are facing. like somehow it's easily fixed by removing one demographic in society. do people really think things will get better when the "old white dudes" cark it? i don't. then who do we blame it on... maybe we should just blame everything on the old. what happens when you're old trav? when everyone starts blaming you. everythings ok with that stuff until they point the finger at the demographic you are part of.

its not old white dudes holding back advancement in this country. its literally across all demographics. white & black and everything in between. it's not bound by gender or religion. its the mind set of an entire nation. my brother in laws are in their late 20s and think any kind of technology is a load of shit and will never work out. i've copped countless roastings for working in IT. they just don't see it. this is a view shared by some of my friends and acquaintances. the harsh reality is a lot of people in this country have a view of what it should be that was formed 50 years ago. it's well ingrained within the generations that have come through. bring up automation and they get this blank look followed by an arrogant "this blokes an idiot" look. they don't get what's coming. they don't get that automation will be to the labor workforce that the excavator was to the shovel. i have a family friend who's a courier driver, doesn't believe in climate change, doesn't believe in electric vehicles and cannot see what's coming in terms of how automation will basically make him obsolete. he's not a boomer. i have another friend, a lady, who was banging on about her new great job, driving trucks up north. pays really well, so much better than IT. in fact the rest of us should do it too, BHP are offering apprenticeships. again doesn't see what's coming.

then you speak to them about the value of education. they laugh at it. teachers are idiots. university is a joke. etc. i've heard that view from people in their 20s all the way up to boomers.

as you said very well there's very little difference between the two major parties. one can be seen as being slightly more supportive but it's still very much the same old. especially when talking about technology. yet they're the two options we have for changing direction. a small 5% shift. if that. in the same direction. the election results will just make that gap smaller now. the approach from labor will now be to be as close to the libs on literally everything and get in by default because the libs have been there so long. they will not even try to implement some taxation tweaks or try the slightest tweak to the transition we are already having to renewable's.

i pray for the day we get a major centrist party as an alternative to labor and liberal, that's not made up of whacks jobs.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Education:
http://www.educationmattersmag.com.au/unicef-report-card-ranks-australia-3941-in-education/

Healthcare:
They tried to cut $57 billion from hospitals.
They tried to force up the cost of seeing a doctor with their GP Tax.
They tried to force up the cost of all prescription medicines, even for pensioners.
They cut $10 billion from other health programs and agencies.
$2.8 billion to public hospital cuts.

Internet:
NBN stuff up is self explanatory, and according to studies done in 2018 we are ranked 55th in the world for internet speed.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/con...d-slower-than-kazakhstan-20180108-p4yyb1.html

Keep in mind we're a developed nation.

A "developed nation " means we have a massive service industry. When we all mow each others laws and sell each other coffee, its hard to see a need for that fast internet, or a way to generate the cash.

Fast broadband is certainly available in places like Slovania. BUT its not cheap and most people don't have it. Meanwhile they installed NBN at my house , i was getting around 15 MB/s on ADSL, now i get close to 90, and its costing me less for my phone and net. If i was part of the survey the 15Mb would have been the one counted. The company i work for has similar slow net, simply due to issues connecting to the NBN. ( Not the fault of the NBN).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ast_broadband_and_what_drives_them_to_migrate
""Ultrafast broadband of at least 100 Mbps is still very rare in both Slovenia and the EU, with only 3.6% and 4.9% penetration rates, respectively "".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x

"Super-fast broadband is generally taken to mean broadband products that provide a maximum download speed that is greater than 24 Mbit/s. This threshold is commonly considered to be the maximum speed that can be supported on current generation (copper-based) networks."

As for working out the "average" of Australia, well that probably takes in some places that are pretty out of the way.


Did you read the recommendations of that school report? Its not about spending extra money. We have a system where the teachers think that the Holiday's are there for their benefit.

I'm not buying that those things make our health system a joke. There are reasons i'm in favour of most people paying a small fee to see a GP , but it would need to be a well thought out system.


Factcheck. As provided by the ABC.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07...ent-spending-record-amounts-on-health/9989808
Coalition claim found to be OK.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05...coalition-cuts-public-school-funding/11084514
Labor claim found to be misleading.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-08/has-the-federal-government-cut-health-funding/7284138
Labor found to be exaggerating.

Lots of bullshit in general from both sides.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-17/federal-election-fact-check-2019-wrap/11120748

 

[George]

A "developed nation " means we have a massive service industry. When we all mow each others laws and sell each other coffee, its hard to see a need for that fast internet, or a way to generate the cash.

Fast broadband is certainly available in places like Slovania. BUT its not cheap and most people don't have it. Meanwhile they installed NBN at my house , i was getting around 15 MB/s on ADSL, now i get close to 90, and its costing me less for my phone and net. If i was part of the survey the 15Mb would have been the one counted. The company i work for has similar slow net, simply due to issues connecting to the NBN. ( Not the fault of the NBN).

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ast_broadband_and_what_drives_them_to_migrate
""Ultrafast broadband of at least 100 Mbps is still very rare in both Slovenia and the EU, with only 3.6% and 4.9% penetration rates, respectively "".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x

"Super-fast broadband is generally taken to mean broadband products that provide a maximum download speed that is greater than 24 Mbit/s. This threshold is commonly considered to be the maximum speed that can be supported on current generation (copper-based) networks."

As for working out the "average" of Australia, well that probably takes in some places that are pretty out of the way.


Did you read the recommendations of that school report? Its not about spending extra money. We have a system where the teachers think that the Holiday's are there for their benefit.

I'm not buying that those things make our health system a joke. There are reasons i'm in favour of most people paying a small fee to see a GP , but it would need to be a well thought out system.


Factcheck. As provided by the ABC.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07...ent-spending-record-amounts-on-health/9989808
Coalition claim found to be OK.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05...coalition-cuts-public-school-funding/11084514
Labor claim found to be misleading.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-08/has-the-federal-government-cut-health-funding/7284138
Labor found to be exaggerating.

Lots of ******** in general from both sides.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-17/federal-election-fact-check-2019-wrap/11120748

ABC is run by the Murdoch press. They have run a smear campaign on Labor for ages, it keeps Murdoch and those at the top better off.

It's common knowledge that the ABC is a Liberal machine. Only need to look at how they interviewed Morrison compared to how they interviewed Shorten. Need to link independent news sources I reckon.

 

[StCicatriz]

ABC is run by the Murdoch press. They have run a smear campaign on Labor for ages, it keeps Murdoch and those at the top better off.

It's common knowledge that the ABC is a Liberal machine. Only need to look at how they interviewed Morrison compared to how they interviewed Shorten. Need to link independent news sources I reckon.

how was old m8 clive spending millions on advertising. he copped it from everyone. "what an idiot" was a common theme. now people get it. he's buying approval for his next projects that will put hundreds of millions into his pocket.

same deal with the murdoch press. do people think that's happening because murdoch is a conversative, or is it happening because something's coming back to him. i reckon if there's nothing coming back, he wouldn't bother.

 

[George]

how was old m8 clive spending millions on advertising. he copped it from everyone. "what an idiot" was a common theme. now people get it. he's buying approval for his next projects that will put hundreds of millions into his pocket.

same deal with the murdoch press. do people think that's happening because murdoch is a conversative, or is it happening because something's coming back to him. i reckon if there's nothing coming back, he wouldn't bother.

Yeah that's true, but also on those articles from the ABC - they have Liberals lining their pockets - it's in their best interests to have a Liberal government. And you look at the people who they source these "facts" and information from and it's usually some corporate who benefits from the Liberals.

For instance the article that SS linked referring to healthcare - they got an opinion on it from Dr Stephen Duckett.

Funnily enough Duckett is on the ABC payroll...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/stephen-duckett/5125338

 

[SaintsSeptember]

ABC is run by the Murdoch press. They have run a smear campaign on Labor for ages, it keeps Murdoch and those at the top better off.

It's common knowledge that the ABC is a Liberal machine. Only need to look at how they interviewed Morrison compared to how they interviewed Shorten. Need to link independent news sources I reckon.

OK and RMIT too i guess.
Mostly i've heard and ignored claims that the ABC was biased to the left. But if you say so.
http://thekorngroup.com.au/is-the-abc-biased-we-asked-australians-and-the-results-may-surprise-you/

But i guess they are right on target where they've caught the Liberals telling porkies.


I'm out.

 

[George]

OK and RMIT too i guess.

I'm out.

Lol all good I am just passing time until I clock off. It's like arguing religion. All good mate

 

[gringo2011]

Fair enough. I think the Liberals are killing this country, taking hundreds of millions out of education and healthcare. People say the ALP aren't good with money well depends what you spend it on and debt is only an issue if you can't service it. If it weren't for Labor we would've had a recession in the late 00's.

Just frustrating that so many people will believe what the media tells them. You may not think anything will change but I think that's only a short term view. Long term it will ruin us as long as they are in charge. For instance we are ranked 39 out of 41 countries for quality education - the Libs absolutely gutting the education system. Kazakhstan ahead of us. And of course the idiots who draw dicks on their ballot or vote for the Sex party or some other minority that has no realistic chance of administering real, important change.

Anyway I guess nothing will change as long as the Murdoch press dominate the landscape.

Yeah, it hit home a few years back when I went to Sri Lanka, faster internet, they were running a plan to pull their people into a better life by paying for education free from kinder to uni, building roads, free health care and you could feel progress. Here and the US seem like they are going backwards towards third world conditions for some. In the past the third world suffered from the greedy taking too much for themselves and ruining the standard of living for the majority. Looks like it still works that way.