Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

Random Discussion seems like the right place for this.

I was at the premier of "Australian Dream" (Adam Goodes Doc) at TIFF (the Toronto Film Festival) last week, my wife works for CBC and was interviewing the director.

I said hi to Goodesy (I must say the he's a nice bloke!) and through the doc was excellent.

McAddams and Winmar are fantastic, and Eddie looked like a idiot, but I was wondering about its response inside Australia.

I always liked Goodes (except when he played the Saints), thought he was a supper talented player and was very fair and a real tough bloke especially as an undersized ruck. But because I was travelling around the world at the time and only lived in oz for maybe 1 or 2 months of the controversy, I never understand were the "he's a dirty player/stages for free kicks" thing came from.

Did I mis something, or was this just the excuse that was used to justify the continuation for the booing as people jumped in the bandwagon.

The doc went down very well! Canadians sometimes think they have all of this sorted out, but many of them are smart enough to no they don't and know that there history is full of similar issues, and they are in a similar position.

Ive got to say, I find it sad that a two time Brownlow medalist and premiership captain now can't watch the game, very sad!

Not meaning to upset anyone her guys and gals, but I was full of emotions and love for my home and I think the doc actually painted a hopefully way forward. My wife was crying at one point, and she can name 10 afl players (9 of them are St Kilda players)... very powerful!

I think people hated him because he was so good and then on top of that they had a touch of casual racism towards him because he was assertive and political. The staging wasn't overt like some IMO, more he'd throw his arms up if he was tackled without the ball and stuff to make sure the umpires saw it. He wasn't dirty so much a brutal, he'd not shirk contests. I always rated him as a player.

 

[CanadianSaint]

I think people hated him because he was so good and then on top of that they had a touch of casual racism towards him because he was assertive and political. The staging wasn't overt like some IMO, more he'd throw his arms up if he was tackled without the ball and stuff to make sure the umpires saw it. He wasn't dirty so much a brutal, he'd not shirk contests. I always rated him as a player.

Thanks Gringo, that was my assessment too... He was so good to watch when on (and playing against Essendon!)

 

[StCicatriz]

Its been a massive fu** up with both quality going down and cost rising.

Black Saturday fires were a direct result of the Electrical network being improperly maintained.

the NBN, not only did we pay $8 billion to buy back the copper network that we paid for in the first place, the absolute debacle that has become is mind boggling.

the closure of Hazelwood power station is another sign of mismanagement and lack of private funding into a state critical infrastructure, Hazelwood was due for closure no doubt but now the 3 remaining power stations are also due for closure and there is no proposal for their replacement.

Private sector might work in high population zones such as England and the USA but the fact we are the same landmass as the USA and a population less the greater New York means that private sector is not going to invest in those areas.

The hindsight way forward would of been maintaining the infrastructure in public hands and on selling to the private sector.

the NBN optus copper buy out should have had some kind of investigation into it. it made literally no sense, especially once you consider the state of the network its self. optus had not been maintaining it as it was sunset and seen to be on the way out. what optus didn't see coming, is someone stupid enough to but it.

it's a long running joke within the IT industry.

on the black fire stuff, do you know who was found to be financially responsible. reason i ask is i just had a similar conversation over here with a mate about some fires we had in the Perth hills. you can read about it here:

2014 Perth Hills bushfire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

57 homes destroyed. source of the fire, a fallen power pole.

this is where it gets interesting. the fire pole, whilst owned by the state government, was on private property. when a power pole is on private property, it is the responsibility of the land owner to maintain it. so the initial thoughts were that the land over would be responsible for paying out the damage and costs for the 57 homes. however it turns out the landowner had acquired the services of a big third party provider to inspect and maintain the pole. this inspection was carried out literally the day before the pole fell and the fire occurred. the company had signed off on the pole and said it was all good. everyone thought they were in the clear and the company rightfully so would be held to account on how they could check off on a pole that falls down a day later.

despite all this, the land owner is going to be held financially responsible for a % of the costs. i think from memory it was around 1/3. people were shocked, like how could that happen?

that family is now financially ruined.

 

[St Muir]

the NBN optus copper buy out should have had some kind of investigation into it. it made literally no sense, especially once you consider the state of the network its self. optus had not been maintaining it as it was sunset and seen to be on the way out. what optus didn't see coming, is someone stupid enough to but it.

it's a long running joke within the IT industry.

on the black fire stuff, do you know who was found to be financially responsible. reason i ask is i just had a similar conversation over here with a mate about some fires we had in the Perth hills. you can read about it here:

2014 Perth Hills bushfire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

57 homes destroyed. source of the fire, a fallen power pole.

this is where it gets interesting. the fire pole, whilst owned by the state government, was on private property. when a power pole is on private property, it is the responsibility of the land owner to maintain it. so the initial thoughts were that the land over would be responsible for paying out the damage and costs for the 57 homes. however it turns out the landowner had acquired the services of a big third party provider to inspect and maintain the pole. this inspection was carried out literally the day before the pole fell and the fire occurred. the company had signed off on the pole and said it was all good. everyone thought they were in the clear and the company rightfully so would be held to account on how they could check off on a pole that falls down a day later.

despite all this, the land owner is going to be held financially responsible for a % of the costs. i think from memory it was around 1/3. people were shocked, like how could that happen?

that family is now financially ruined.

I can’t see how he would be liable, maybe there’s some details missing from what you’ve been told? It’s shaping up as a lawyers picnic by the looks.

 

[StCicatriz]

I can’t see how he would be liable, maybe there’s some details missing from what you’ve been told? It’s shaping up as a lawyers picnic by the looks.

Contractor, property owner liable for Parkerville fire that torched 57 homes

The judge in a class action case finds a massive bushfire was sparked by a power pole on Noreen Campbell's property, which contractor Thiess had been ordered to inspect months before it collapsed in January 2014.

www.abc.net.au

basically the owner was found responsible because they did not inspect the pole themselves and left it up to the company she had hired to do it.

tbh i know nothing about structural integrity of power poles nor electricity networks, so i wouldn't bother inspecting it either, if i had paid someone to do it. especially a big company like theis.

 

[St Muir]

Contractor, property owner liable for Parkerville fire that torched 57 homes

The judge in a class action case finds a massive bushfire was sparked by a power pole on Noreen Campbell's property, which contractor Thiess had been ordered to inspect months before it collapsed in January 2014.

www.abc.net.au

basically the owner was found responsible because they did not inspect the pole themselves and left it up to the company she had hired to do it.

tbh i know nothing about structural integrity of power poles nor electricity networks, so i wouldn't bother inspecting it either, if i had paid someone to do it. especially a big company like theis.

Exactly. I think that’s an appalling judgement. The litigants have a stronger sense of justice than the buffoon who made the judgement. If the electricity company is off the hook, so should be the poor woman caught up in this. Surely she exercised her responsibility and duty of care?

 

[StFly]

Exactly. I think that’s an appalling judgement. The litigants have a stronger sense of justice than the buffoon who made the judgement. If the electricity company is off the hook, so should be the poor woman caught up in this. Surely she exercised her responsibility and duty of care?

You do know level of guilt however, and when shit invariably hits the fan its nearly always the one who can cop the blame as opposed to the ones who can organise a gaggle of lawyers that actually cop it.

So they will state that "should" equates to "has to" for example.

 

[Mat Mann]

the NBN optus copper buy out should have had some kind of investigation into it. it made literally no sense, especially once you consider the state of the network its self. optus had not been maintaining it as it was sunset and seen to be on the way out. what optus didn't see coming, is someone stupid enough to but it.

it's a long running joke within the IT industry.

on the black fire stuff, do you know who was found to be financially responsible. reason i ask is i just had a similar conversation over here with a mate about some fires we had in the Perth hills. you can read about it here:

2014 Perth Hills bushfire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

57 homes destroyed. source of the fire, a fallen power pole.

this is where it gets interesting. the fire pole, whilst owned by the state government, was on private property. when a power pole is on private property, it is the responsibility of the land owner to maintain it. so the initial thoughts were that the land over would be responsible for paying out the damage and costs for the 57 homes. however it turns out the landowner had acquired the services of a big third party provider to inspect and maintain the pole. this inspection was carried out literally the day before the pole fell and the fire occurred. the company had signed off on the pole and said it was all good. everyone thought they were in the clear and the company rightfully so would be held to account on how they could check off on a pole that falls down a day later.

despite all this, the land owner is going to be held financially responsible for a % of the costs. i think from memory it was around 1/3. people were shocked, like how could that happen?

that family is now financially ruined.

Black Saturday survivors win $500 million payout

Survivors of Victoria's devastating 2009 Black Saturday bushfires have secured a $500 million payout, in what lawyers have called the biggest class action settlement in Australian legal history. Maurice Blackburn Lawyers said victims of the Kilmore East-Kinglake bushfire, which started on 7...

www.abc.net.au

When they talk about faulty conductor they mean the cross arm fell off the pole because SP Ausnet are assholes that cheap-skated and fraudulently duded the government of Victoria. In a system where maintenance of the assets rewarded SP Ausnet with bonus payments, they fraudulently and negligently doctored the paperwork.

As an Arborist that contracted for these companies I can say this for a fact.

My Boss lost his Home, I lost people I knew, I worked from the Saturday Arvo of the fires with the fire dept clearing road and property access, i worked throughout the effected areas solidly for the next year. How these ****ers recorded no criminal conviction is breathtakingly astounding.

as for how liability differs between states I cant say, but in Vic the provider (SP Ausnet as an example) is liable for all electrical assets in their network.

 

[St Muir]

Black Saturday survivors win $500 million payout

Survivors of Victoria's devastating 2009 Black Saturday bushfires have secured a $500 million payout, in what lawyers have called the biggest class action settlement in Australian legal history. Maurice Blackburn Lawyers said victims of the Kilmore East-Kinglake bushfire, which started on 7...

www.abc.net.au

When they talk about faulty conductor they mean the cross arm fell off the pole because SP Ausnet are assholes that cheap-skated and fraudulently duded the government of Victoria. In a system where maintenance of the assets rewarded SP Ausnet with bonus payments, they fraudulently and negligently doctored the paperwork.

As an Arborist that contracted for these companies I can say this for a fact.

My Boss lost his Home, I lost people I knew, I worked from the Saturday Arvo of the fires with the fire dept clearing road and property access, i worked throughout the effected areas solidly for the next year. How these f***ers recorded no criminal conviction is breathtakingly astounding.

as for how liability differs between states I cant say, but in Vic the provider (SP Ausnet as an example) is liable for all electrical assets in their network.

Good on you for your efforts to help the community recover from all the damage caused.
I’m still struggling to understand how the WA power company escaped liability. If she failed to adequately ensure the ‘experts’ had checked the pole properly and was deemed partially liable because of it, then surely they have some responsibility to do the same?
I was talking to someone recently about low level corruption in their native country. They were embarrassed at what happens there and were full of praise for the Australian system. I told them to not feel too bad about it, we just do it on a much larger scale. I’d love to see real reform of our justice system and political system. Large scale corruption is endemic and getting more blatant in my opinion.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Contractor, property owner liable for Parkerville fire that torched 57 homes

The judge in a class action case finds a massive bushfire was sparked by a power pole on Noreen Campbell's property, which contractor Thiess had been ordered to inspect months before it collapsed in January 2014.

www.abc.net.au

basically the owner was found responsible because they did not inspect the pole themselves and left it up to the company she had hired to do it.

tbh i know nothing about structural integrity of power poles nor electricity networks, so i wouldn't bother inspecting it either, if i had paid someone to do it. especially a big company like theis.

Its a question of liability.
You can't shirk your responsibility by hiring a contractor.
However , depending on the contracts in place, you can sue the contractor for any damages caused by them not performing as they should.

 

[StFly]

Good on you for your efforts to help the community recover from all the damage caused.
I’m still struggling to understand how the WA power company escaped liability. If she failed to adequately ensure the ‘experts’ had checked the pole properly and was deemed partially liable because of it, then surely they have some responsibility to do the same?
I was talking to someone recently about low level corruption in their native country. They were embarrassed at what happens there and were full of praise for the Australian system. I told them to not feel too bad about it, we just do it on a much larger scale. I’d love to see real reform of our justice system and political system. Large scale corruption is endemic and getting more blatant in my opinion.

It's levels of jargon which is why the print is always fine as it's likely through contract work that they deferred liability by and large to mobs who could default and claim bankruptcy, like Trump for example, to then start up again at a later date and hark on about how great they are whilst the wheel is always spinning to make sure the big stay big and the small stay small with everyone wedged in the middle.

So they likely do not have the same level of sign off as an"expert" since they only created the idea and facilitate its production, if production is not at fault and it is a maintenance thing for example, they can entirely defer liability to whomever carried out said maintenance since they likely agreed via several binding contract clauses to accept liability.

Morally, you bet, they're cactus for everyone within earshot, but legally, they're golden and there's several lawyers who will fight you if you state otherwise.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's levels of jargon which is why the print is always fine as it's likely through contract work that they deferred liability by and large to mobs who could default and claim bankruptcy, like Trump for example, to then start up again at a later date and hark on about how great they are whilst the wheel is always spinning to make sure the big stay big and the small stay small with everyone wedged in the middle.

So they likely do not have the same level of sign off as an"expert" since they only created the idea and facilitate its production, if production is not at fault and it is a maintenance thing for example, they can entirely defer liability to whomever carried out said maintenance since they likely agreed via several binding contract clauses to accept liability.

Morally, you bet, they're cactus for everyone within earshot, but legally, they're golden and there's several lawyers who will fight you if you state otherwise.

If i was in charge of fine print jargon, i'd get you to write it for me StFly.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Just to get off saving the world for a moment.

Is anyone going in SuperCoach racing? Or want to start a private league?
It kicks off this weekend.

 

[gringo2011]

Gas: how Australia privatised the profits and socialised the losses - Michael West

Norway delivered its oil & gas riches to its people, Australia delivered the profits into foreign hands, having done the exploration, spending years and billions proving up giant gas fields. As the gas cartel rakes in the profits exporting LNG at the expense of local consumers

www.michaelwest.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Gas: how Australia privatised the profits and socialised the losses - Michael West

Norway delivered its oil & gas riches to its people, Australia delivered the profits into foreign hands, having done the exploration, spending years and billions proving up giant gas fields. As the gas cartel rakes in the profits exporting LNG at the expense of local consumers

www.michaelwest.com.au

Idiots, then they tax the stuff upon sale to Australian consumers.

 

[Yawkey way]

Gas: how Australia privatised the profits and socialised the losses - Michael West

Norway delivered its oil & gas riches to its people, Australia delivered the profits into foreign hands, having done the exploration, spending years and billions proving up giant gas fields. As the gas cartel rakes in the profits exporting LNG at the expense of local consumers

www.michaelwest.com.au

Are you at all surprised, even the Canadian model has these idiots screaming about sovereign risk.

Everywhere you look private companies are ripping us off with assets we previously owned or should have at least had equity in, scandalous doesn’t begin to describe it.

Imagine having to put in place the Australian domestic gas security mechanism lol what a bunch of unhung scoundrels. Everywhere you look other countries are getting rich exporting lower volumes but not us sovereign risk booga booga.

Doesn’t do to think about it too much it makes me want to storm the winter palace so to speak.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I think people hated him because he was so good and then on top of that they had a touch of casual racism towards him because he was assertive and political. The staging wasn't overt like some IMO, more he'd throw his arms up if he was tackled without the ball and stuff to make sure the umpires saw it. He wasn't dirty so much a brutal, he'd not shirk contests. I always rated him as a player.

i think from time to time he did cross the line in his way about playing footy .. he did perfect the sliding in to take out players legs quite well but as you say the responce to him from the haters wasnt in proportion to the wrongs he made as a player .. it was simply the fact he turned a mirror onto society and it made a lot of people uncomfortable but in stead of seeing that and making changes they flipped it and made it about Goodes being a flog to justify their actions ...

 

[Yawkey way]

i think from time to time he did cross the line in his way about playing footy .. he did perfect the sliding in to take out players legs quite well but as you say the responce to him from the haters wasnt in proportion to the wrongs he made as a player .. it was simply the fact he turned a mirror onto society and it made a lot of people uncomfortable but in stead of seeing that and making changes they flipped it and made it about Goodes being a flog to justify their actions ...

He was one of my all time favourite players, well I remember his tac grand final I couldn’t believe clubs passed on him.

Anyway he became a bit of a serial offender late is his career sliding in with the knees etc and Sydney jumped up and down about him be victimised etc, I think that put a few people offside. Then we had the Collingwood kid which despite Goodes not driving it once he realised her age it was an appalling look having a 12 year old girl with granny in tow booted out and then questioned etc.

Now here’s the kicker Goodes didn’t use his Australian of the year speech to launch into Australia at all, he made some inflammatory comments after viewing that John pilger hit piece film utopia. Pilger is a serial hater and I can’t be bothered reviewing his work but those comments by Goodes opened the floodgates imo.

So were the people booing him racist or motivated by racism or just sick of Goodes the player. I highly doubt that Goodes the player was being booed by most people without at least a touch of Goodes the cultural critic added in. It really doesn’t matter if people think his comments were fair or absolute rubbish but many were over the player and hated the critic imo.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

He was one of my all time favourite players, well I remember his tac grand final I couldn’t believe clubs passed on him.

Anyway he became a bit of a serial offender late is his career sliding in with the knees etc and Sydney jumped up and down about him be victimised etc, I think that put a few people offside. Then we had the Collingwood kid which despite Goodes not driving it once he realised her age it was an appalling look having a 12 year old girl with granny in tow booted out and then questioned etc.

Now here’s the kicker Goodes didn’t use his Australian of the year speech to launch into Australia at all, he made some inflammatory comments after viewing that John pilger hit piece film utopia. Pilger is a serial hater and I can’t be bothered reviewing his work but those comments by Goodes opened the floodgates imo.

So were the people booing him racist or motivated by racism or just sick of Goodes the player. I highly doubt that Goodes the player was being booed by most people without at least a touch of Goodes the cultural critic added in. It really doesn’t matter if people think his comments were fair or absolute rubbish but many were over the player and hated the critic imo.

from my experiance the booing was a sheep mentality ... i remeber being at the WCE vs Swans game where the WCE fans started the booing of Goodes in the warm up .. after the game i asked on facebook why people were booing him before the bounce of the ball and the only reason i got was "cause hes a flog" ...
once the public got wind of the fact the booing was impacting him that just lit the fire for it to get worse .... then along came the usual suspects with their character justifiying of their actions being the victim blame ...
as a person who personally copped racisim in sport and nearly walked away from sport because of it i really felt ashamed of the way that situation was handled

 

[Yawkey way]

from my experiance the booing was a sheep mentality ... i remeber being at the WCE vs Swans game where the WCE fans started the booing of Goodes in the warm up .. after the game i asked on facebook why people were booing him before the bounce of the ball and the only reason i got was "cause hes a flog" ...
once the public got wind of the fact the booing was impacting him that just lit the fire for it to get worse .... then along came the usual suspects with their character justifiying of their actions being the victim blame ...
as a person who personally copped racisim in sport and nearly walked away from sport because of it i really felt ashamed of the way that situation was handled

Overt sledging in sport was rife in my time, a lot of course was just mindless rubbish the same stuff to some degree that ltbti people have copped.

I watch local football and you wouldn’t believe how much it’s improved in terms on onfield violence etc and crowd behaviour. It’s not perfect and some sports still have some ground to makeup but their definitely trying to improve.

Anyway I really don’t see how there was much anyone could have done about it, the AFL might have come out sooner and stronger but what would they have said, you can’t boo?. Some clubs did ask their supporters to stop, I really don’t remember if it had much impact.

I think people have danced around this on both sides for way too long, Goodes made some inflammatory comments after watching that piece of rubbish a lot of people obviously jumped all over him because of it. Sport and politics aren’t a great match people want the Shut up and play sportsperson.

He was harshly treated and it was a sad end to a fantastic career, pretty embarrassing stuff really but there you are.

 

[Start Again]

Patty Ryder said it felt a lot better at morrabin then esendon
We aren’t far away

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Its 10 years to the day we had our heart collectively ripped out.

 

[BigPowerForward]

So today I was sitting down at a table outside the chicken shop I normally go to and this 80 year old woman stops beside me on her mobility scooter.
(I'm not sure what it is about me but it is quite normal for people over seventy, dogs, cats and most nut jobs to gravitate towards me)
After a quick discussion about the weather, she says to me, "Hey, do you want to hear a joke?"
I said, "sure, why not!
This was her joke

A man goes to the doctors with a lettuce sticking out of his bum.
The man says, "Tell me Doctor is it serious?"
The doctor replied "It's just the tip of the iceberg."

Then she hit the throttle on her mobility scooter and off she went
Today was a good day!

 

[Yawkey way]

Has anybody had any problems with the bump below your knee where the tendon joins the tibia.

My right one is swollen and I feel like I’ve been belted with a baseball bat, the bloody thing is murder to walk on.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Facebook suggests this.

I wouldnt wipe my arse with Carlton stuff!