Discussion Random Discussion

[Moral Decay]

Maybe people should read it particularly balanced minds

OPINION | 'We did burnoffs': Badja Sparks hits back

Nearly 50 per cent of our able adults are members of the Wytaliba RFS, a figure envied by...

www.armidaleexpress.com.au

So I've avoiding this subject, fuel reduction burns are totemic, like old growth forest, habitat trees, native gardens, wood chips, logging, protesters chained to dozers and trucks. Depending on who you are and what your bent is you'll get worked up about these topics and get very angry about them, but they won't make a rats worth of difference, the trees of the forest have evolved to burn and burn to keep surviving.

Up here we haven't had fuel reduction burns here for years, just too hot and too dry, but the blokes right and a crown fire is a very different beast, a lightning strike can last for weeks smouldering away in a dry tree just waiting for heat and wind, it wouldn't matter how the undergrowth had been burnt away the fire is in the tree top.

It's a bit the same with fire spotting ahead and trying to cut fire breaks, eucalyptus oil has a flash point of 49 degrees, so on a really hot day you'll see a blue haze of eucalyptus oil over the forest, it's the forest getting ready to kick off. I've seen a lone grey gum 1 km from the fire front "spontaneously combust" which it didn't it was just days of high 40 degree temps (and no good measuring in the shade, measure in the full sun because that's where the trees are) add a spark and were off.

One variable to consider, are there messmates growing in the forest and how old are they? They grow from sea level to about 1500 meters and can live for hundreds of years but their bark is very fibrous and very flammable. From about 60 years on they will pipe, they can grow 90m tall, the older they get the more flammable they are. So I'm little Johnny out on summer crew doing a bit of supervised burning, I'm young, fit, idealistic, keen on the girls a little macho, a little thick and sporting a man bun to hide my crippling lack of self esteem.

There's an old messmate, a wolf tree, high and wide canopy, a habitat tree, very old lots of nooks and crannies for birds and little critters. the fire isn't all that close but a spark gets into a hole which is now deep enough to get to the pipe, whoosh the tree acts like a chimney, the crown explodes like a grenade and you've got a fire ball. It really has hit the fan because up there it can't be controlled, there's no water bomber to call on, under equipped, under educated, under prepared, it's all out of control, hundreds of acres burnt a farm house and stock. Luckily nobody dies. The Dept. gets sued (have to settle), little Johnny has to rethink his life choices and the won't be any money to stop this happening again, so they redraw the regs. The Dept. can't afford payouts especially when funds are being cut so there's less fuel reduction burns.

The messmate has evolved to burn, the leaves, the oil, the bark, the pipe, they grow on a lignotuber so their life force is under ground, when the top burns they just start from the bottom again.

Fuel reduction burns do work, if the forest is high enough, wet enough, cool enough, young enough, they work depending on the ignition site and source, they do make a difference in the short term, but in the long term all they do is delay the inevitable, because once the air temp gets to 50 deg. nothing works. Unless we come up with a different ecological model for how our forest is made up, they will just get dryer and more flammable.

 

[gringo2011]

So I've avoiding this subject, fuel reduction burns are totemic, like old growth forest, habitat trees, native gardens, wood chips, logging, protesters chained to dozers and trucks. Depending on who you are and what your bent is you'll get worked up about these topics and get very angry about them, but they won't make a rats worth of difference, the trees of the forest have evolved to burn and burn to keep surviving.

Up here we haven't had fuel reduction burns here for years, just too hot and too dry, but the blokes right and a crown fire is a very different beast, a lightning strike can last for weeks smouldering away in a dry tree just waiting for heat and wind, it wouldn't matter how the undergrowth had been burnt away the fire is in the tree top.

It's a bit the same with fire spotting ahead and trying to cut fire breaks, eucalyptus oil has a flash point of 49 degrees, so on a really hot day you'll see a blue haze of eucalyptus oil over the forest, it's the forest getting ready to kick off. I've seen a lone grey gum 1 km from the fire front "spontaneously combust" which it didn't it was just days of high 40 degree temps (and no good measuring in the shade, measure in the full sun because that's where the trees are) add a spark and were off.

One variable to consider, are there messmates growing in the forest and how old are they? They grow from sea level to about 1500 meters and can live for hundreds of years but their bark is very fibrous and very flammable. From about 60 years on they will pipe, they can grow 90m tall, the older they get the more flammable they are. So I'm little Johnny out on summer crew doing a bit of supervised burning, I'm young, fit, idealistic, keen on the girls a little macho, a little thick and sporting a man bun to hide my crippling lack of self esteem.

There's an old messmate, a wolf tree, high and wide canopy, a habitat tree, very old lots of nooks and crannies for birds and little critters. the fire isn't all that close but a spark gets into a hole which is now deep enough to get to the pipe, whoosh the tree acts like a chimney, the crown explodes like a grenade and you've got a fire ball. It really has hit the fan because up there it can't be controlled, there's no water bomber to call on, under equipped, under educated, under prepared, it's all out of control, hundreds of acres burnt a farm house and stock. Luckily nobody dies. The Dept. gets sued (have to settle), little Johnny has to rethink his life choices and the won't be any money to stop this happening again, so they redraw the regs. The Dept. can't afford payouts especially when funds are being cut so there's less fuel reduction burns.

The messmate has evolved to burn, the leaves, the oil, the bark, the pipe, they grow on a lignotuber so their life force is under ground, when the top burns they just start from the bottom again.

Fuel reduction burns do work, if the forest is high enough, wet enough, cool enough, young enough, they work depending on the ignition site and source, they do make a difference in the short term, but in the long term all they do is delay the inevitable, because once the air temp gets to 50 deg. nothing works. Unless we come up with a different ecological model for how our forest is made up, they will just get dryer and more flammable.

Yeah, on hot days you can smell the bush and it smells like the amount of gas in the air from the trees is flammable. When you get the hairdryer winds on top of it, it feels like at any moment it could ignite.

 

[joop]

Keep playing politics and promoting propaganda. Well done!

Support the firies, volunteers, people and donate instead.

All admist a bushfire tragedy. Real legends some of you blokes!

I'm out of this whacky left wing comfy love fest safe space. You're so blind to it you can't even see it.

See you later!

Since when are you not able to support the fire department, volunteers, people and donate but call out the government at the same? Didn’t know they were exclusive.

 

[Moral Decay]

Yeah, on hot days you can smell the bush and it smells like the amount of gas in the air from the trees is flammable. When you get the hairdryer winds on top of it, it feels like at any moment it could ignite.

Add global warming so that summers are hotter, drier, longer and people crapping on about what our indigenous peoples knew, green activists getting their rocks off on their righteous indignation, and denialists finding fault with everything so they don't have to be responsible, all of them getting their jollies finger pointing at the other lot and how wrong and deranged they are and guess what none of it will stop the forest burning, and the things that might or could wont be done because it will always be too hard to do, too hard to sell, and it's always better to have an enemy some other to blame than to think.

 

[CursingFijian]

Good article about not so much climate change but the politics that won't allow change.

Thread by @adamliaw: OK, it's Monday so here’s a thread about climate change, the lack of political action in response to it, why climate change deniers are irre…

Thread by @adamliaw: OK, it's Monday so here’s a thread about climate change, the lack of political action in response to it, why climate chaiers are irrelevant, and why Australia taking action on climate change is vital for our economic survival. It’s p…

threadreaderapp.com

Very interesting take.

 

[Kildonan]

 

[bergholt]

Well, I would always take 90% over 5-10%.

Does that apply to scientists researching climate change?

 

[gringo2011]

Does that apply to scientists researching climate change?

The majority want climate action in both Australia and the US. It's not even an argument.

Lowy Institute Poll shows Australians’ support for climate action at its highest level in a decade

The latest annual survey from the Lowy Institute shows that 59% of Australians support strong climate action, and 84% want the government to embrace renewable energy even if it’s more expensive.

theconversation.com

 

[StFly]

The majority want climate action in both Australia and the US. It's not even an argument.

Lowy Institute Poll shows Australians’ support for climate action at its highest level in a decade

The latest annual survey from the Lowy Institute shows that 59% of Australians support strong climate action, and 84% want the government to embrace renewable energy even if it’s more expensive.

theconversation.com

Meanwhile in Canberra

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Facts on bushfire seasons:
1974-75: 117 million hectares burnt across Australia
2019-20: 15 million hectares burnt and growing across Australia

Wow!
For the idiots and flogs from Australia and the rest of the world that think climate change made these fires...I didnt realise co2 levels and climate change could travel back in time like the DMC DeLorean off Back To The Future.

 

[Hubnester]

 

[gringo2011]

Facts on bushfire seasons:
1974-75: 117 million hectares burnt across Australia
2019-20: 15 million hectares burnt and growing across Australia

Wow!
For the idiots and flogs from Australia and the rest of the world that think climate change made these fires...I didnt realise co2 levels and climate change could travel back in time like the DMC DeLorean off Back To The Future.

View attachment 803001

Been reading the Australian's climate skeptic propaganda again? You don't have to use critical thinking but it sometimes helps so that you come across as a little bit more complex. The 70s fires were big areas of outback through NT and western NSW. It's unusual to have such huge fire fronts that are hitting huge areas of heavily populated coastal areas in an era when fire management is much more advanced. Fire conditions are increasing as temperatures rise. You can choose to hide from it but the mega fires seem to be getting more common. In my life there has been Ash Wednesday, Black Saturday and now this one. There have been plenty of smaller fires but they are the big ones. This one is over so many states and so many areas and is only part way through. Who knows when it will end. It's pretty ordinary downplaying the severity by comparing the size of areas when it's not the same.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

So 117 vs 10-15...hmmm...that is grade 6 maths.

Plus it was 44 years ago. That nearly half a century ago.

Hmmm....lots of carbon made by aussies then too.

Take a look at the 1851 Vic bushfires too if you dare. I can't recall many petrol guzzling cars and coal fire powered plants back then either.

If you get a bit flustered then a quick visit to Greta Thunbergs or Tim Flannerys doomsday pages might get you back on track.

 

[Moral Decay]

So 117 vs 10-15...hmmm...that is grade 6 maths.

Plus it was 44 years ago. That nearly half a century ago.

Hmmm....lots of carbon made by aussies then too.

Take a look at the 1851 Vic bushfires too if you dare. I can't recall many petrol guzzling cars and coal fire powered plants back then either.

If you get a bit flustered then a quick visit to Greta Thunbergs or Tim Flannerys doomsday pages might get you back on track.

If it makes you feel better, there's between 6 and 8 weeks left for more forest to burn, houses to be lost, people to die and lives to be ruined. To improve things a little more it has nothing to do with your politics I find Jill Redwood just as tone deaf and grotesque and if it helps you along just a little more, I'm going to work tomorrow to find out whether I have a job, just a small company only 120 employers but the odds are we have three weeks and then it will be all over, while your taking cheap pointless shots there'll be a lot of people wondering how they will rebuild shattered lives and there'll be a lot more before this is over. So just keep posting this pointless crap, it's not improving anything but giving you an outlet for your bile and contempt for the rest of humanity. Cheers!

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

If it makes you feel better, there's between 6 and 8 weeks left for more forest to burn, houses to be lost, people to die and lives to be ruined. To improve things a little more it has nothing to do with your politics I find Jill Redwood just as tone deaf and grotesque and if it helps you along just a little more, I'm going to work tomorrow to find out whether I have a job, just a small company only 120 employers but the odds are we have three weeks and then it will be all over, while your taking cheap pointless shots there'll be a lot of people wondering how they will rebuild shattered lives and there'll be a lot more before this is over. So just keep posting this pointless crap, it's not improving anything but giving you an outlet for your bile and contempt for the rest of humanity. Cheers!

Have you read this forum at all?

 

[jwikked]

So 117 vs 10-15...hmmm...that is grade 6 maths.

Plus it was 44 years ago. That nearly half a century ago.

Hmmm....lots of carbon made by aussies then too.

Take a look at the 1851 Vic bushfires too if you dare. I can't recall many petrol guzzling cars and coal fire powered plants back then either.

If you get a bit flustered then a quick visit to Greta Thunbergs or Tim Flannerys doomsday pages might get you back on track.

Gee, imagine bringing in the 1851 bushfires as a comparison to the 2019/2020 fires.

This is the perfect example of why you're never going to convince anyone to your view on climate change.
a) no one takes you seriously
b) an obvious lack of critical thinking
c) an insistence on only using the figures you like and ignoring all others

You're comparing the size of the 1851 fires to the 2019/2020 fires, but completely ignoring ALL differences in firefighting techniques. In 1851 they didn't have planes, helicopters, fire engines, radio communications, satellite data or a large organised force of firefighters.
In 1851 they had horse and buggies. And you want to compare that fire to what happens today, with all our modern equipment and millions and millions of dollars and the thousands of dedicated firefighters.

You should really reflect on your arguments, why you make them and why you're so one eyed about it. You're so determined to be right about climate change being a hoax that you will ignore any and all evidence that proves you wrong. Yet you'll accept the word of anyone who says its false - regardless of whether or not they're a climate scientist or not.

If you have a problem with your brain, you don't visit a podiatrist. They're both doctors, but who are you going to trust? I'm guessing you'll trust the guy at the servo who will tell you "ah it's no problem at all"

 

[Moral Decay]

Have you read this forum at all?

I have, just go to the top of the page. The question really should be have you read it, because you're looking like a prime Fwit, every piece of rubbish you've posted is self serving and designed to be offensive and generally got the result it deserves. Check how many likes you've got and take a break have a rethink, if so many people disagree with you, find your style of posting contemptible, maybe just maybe they've got a point.

 

[Joffaboy]

For those who missed it

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Gee, imagine bringing in the 1851 bushfires as a comparison to the 2019/2020 fires.

This is the perfect example of why you're never going to convince anyone to your view on climate change.
a) no one takes you seriously
b) an obvious lack of critical thinking
c) an insistence on only using the figures you like and ignoring all others

You're comparing the size of the 1851 fires to the 2019/2020 fires, but completely ignoring ALL differences in firefighting techniques. In 1851 they didn't have planes, helicopters, fire engines, radio communications, satellite data or a large organised force of firefighters.
In 1851 they had horse and buggies. And you want to compare that fire to what happens today, with all our modern equipment and millions and millions of dollars and the thousands of dedicated firefighters.

You should really reflect on your arguments, why you make them and why you're so one eyed about it. You're so determined to be right about climate change being a hoax that you will ignore any and all evidence that proves you wrong. Yet you'll accept the word of anyone who says its false - regardless of whether or not they're a climate scientist or not.

If you have a problem with your brain, you don't visit a podiatrist. They're both doctors, but who are you going to trust? I'm guessing you'll trust the guy at the servo who will tell you "ah it's no problem at all"

Don't put your words in my mouth mate.

When facts and figures get presented then its funny to see how people deflect and run the other way.

117 vs 15...do the math.

 

[Joffaboy]

I have, just go to the top of the page. The question really should be have you read it, because you're looking like a prime Fwit, every piece of rubbish you've posted is self serving and designed to be offensive and generally got the result it deserves. Check how many likes you've got and take a break have a rethink, if so many people disagree with you, find your style of posting contemptible, maybe just maybe they've got a point.

Like his garbage 'inside information' about football, his climate denying is just a game to get a reaction.

Not long now until he starts being the victim and claims he is bullied by the posters here as he did about SS.

I dont know why you dont just put him on ignore.

 

[Moral Decay]

Like his garbage 'inside information' about football, his climate denying is just a game to get a reaction.

Not long now until he starts being the victim and claims he is bullied by the posters here as he did about SS.

I dont know why you dont just put him on ignore.

Yeah I know but I always hope there will be a glimmer, my own fault really.

 

[jwikked]

Don't put your words in my mouth mate.

When facts and figures get presented then its funny to see how people deflect and run the other way.

Your facts and figures are worthless, and taken out of context. You're not better than one of those flat Earthers. You can show them a photo of the world and they'll say it's fake. You can show them the math that proves the Earth is a sphere and they'll say it's made up. You can ask them why the worlds Governments would pretend the earth is a sphere, and they'll say it's a conspiracy.

Denying global warming is the same as saying the Earth is flat.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Your facts and figures are worthless, and taken out of context. You're not better than one of those flat Earthers. You can show them a photo of the world and they'll say it's fake. You can show them the math that proves the Earth is a sphere and they'll say it's made up. You can ask them why the worlds Governments would pretend the earth is a sphere, and they'll say it's a conspiracy.

Denying global warming is the same as saying the Earth is flat.

I'm not denying anything and stop using the holocaust term.

And the world is a sphere and vaccinations work. Get stuffed. All scientific areas cannot be linked to one another. Very poor argument.

 

[Moral Decay]

I couldnt give a fu** how many likes I get in a whacky left wing forum.

I am not being offensive. I am presenting facts and realism to those using these horrific bushfires for political purposes by promoting man made climate change as its cause. Just like when that four eyed Greenie w***er Bob Brown used the Queensland floods disaster 10 years ago for the same purpose.

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Then why bother posting? You don't add anything, you have nothing to offer, all your facts get shot down, and if you hate all those Greenie w***ers why are you so like them? You don't give a flying **** about the damage you do, so long as you can throw all the toys out and have your little tantrum.

 

[jwikked]

I'm not denying anything and stop using the holocaust term.

And the world is a sphere and vaccinations work. Get stuffed. All scientific areas cannot be linked to one another. Very poor argument.

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

There is actual, irrefutable evidence. If you scroll to the bottom of the page all the information and authors are listed so you can independently verify their claims.