Discussion Random Discussion

[triggering bro]

The democrats from 1870 are vastly different to today. Same for the republican party.

Do you really think it has any relevance to what's happening now?

Its just so completely different.

Its not helpful at all to any political discussion to bring it up as it just muddies the waters and has no relevance to the issues we have now.

Its nothing more than cheap point scoring.

I lived in the states for 3 years. Their politics are extremely complex. I lived in a deep south city. The best way I can describe it, is their country is a living breathing contradiction built on hypocrisy.

Theres no hard and fast rule for anything. There's no republicans good democrats bad or vice versa because they chop and change so god damn much. If you don't believe it read how much the Southern democrats changed over the years:

Southern Democrats - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As someone said they actually end up becoming republicans because the republican party started to move more and more into conservatism.

The republican party was initially a very solid liberal and progressive party. But its now solidly conservative. If they were aligned the way they are now back in 1870 they would have been overwhelmingly in favor of the JC laws.

Good luck to anyone getting any kind of meaningful change there. Especially in the social media age of misinformation and point scoring exercises.

The relevance is the hypocrisy with regard to the current Republican Party & Trump being blamed for 150 years of systemic racism in America. Trump has been in politics for a few of those 150 years FFS. If you want to direct blame start with a few of the politicians that have been in the game for 50 years & who make statements such as if you don’t vote for me you aren’t black.

My main issue with the left (on the extreme side) is they constantly resort to race politics & are supercharged on rage & emotion instead of looking at the facts. The removal of statues illustrates the hypocrisy & lack of understanding these criminals are resorting to ie human kind & civilisation has evolved, we all, yes all cultures, countries, religious groups have many skeletons in our closet & removing historic pieces & art & attempting to sweep it under the carpet is plain ignorance.

 

[triggering bro]

Like I said relevance by pass with absolutely zero connection to the events of today

Just so I can be clear are you saying that in today’s politics the republicans are racist & the democrats are not? Or are you taking aim at Trump specifically? Are you blaming the republicans &/or Trump for the current race riots & engrained issues they have had over their history? since you are talking contemporary/today let’s keep it there.

 

[triggering bro]

I wish I'd learn to shut up about politics. I just noticed Mowman has cancelled his account and Kegs on Legs before him. It's actually a shame those guys have walked. We should never have gone there, They were some of the better posters on here for a long time. Hopefully they come back at some point.

Yes, politics & religion is such a divisive topic because it is our identify so when attacked it can be taken with a great deal of offence. The way I look at it is we are all different so you can believe in whatever you like as long as it’s within the rules of law & it does not have a significant negative impact on other people. This is the grey area because things like art, statues, movies, free speech, is being taken away from people on the grounds of it significantly negatively impacting people/groups. I don’t agree with people making derogatory comments at somebody but if they choose to disagree with someone’s lifestyle/religion/etc they are free to think that way without the thought police making the rules. What we think is right now probably won’t be in 50 years time. We evolve, that’s nature. Show me a race/country/religious group that hasn’t committed atrocities at some point in their history.

 

[Mat Mann]

I know this is a general discussion place but seriously can we leave the politics alone on the StKilda FOOTY board, there is a politics section on the forums for those who want to venture into that region.

 

[George]

The democrats from 1870 are vastly different to today. Same for the republican party.

Do you really think it has any relevance to what's happening now?

Its just so completely different.

Its not helpful at all to any political discussion to bring it up as it just muddies the waters and has no relevance to the issues we have now.

Its nothing more than cheap point scoring.

I lived in the states for 3 years. Their politics are extremely complex. I lived in a deep south city. The best way I can describe it, is their country is a living breathing contradiction built on hypocrisy.

Theres no hard and fast rule for anything. There's no republicans good democrats bad or vice versa because they chop and change so god damn much. If you don't believe it read how much the Southern democrats changed over the years:

Southern Democrats - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As someone said they actually end up becoming republicans because the republican party started to move more and more into conservatism.

The republican party was initially a very solid liberal and progressive party. But its now solidly conservative. If they were aligned the way they are now back in 1870 they would have been overwhelmingly in favor of the JC laws.

Good luck to anyone getting any kind of meaningful change there. Especially in the social media age of misinformation and point scoring exercises.

You're right, the Democrats of today pander for votes by telling african american's they "aren't black enough" if they don't vote Democrat and by dressing up in African garb to kneel in support of someone who isn't African. It's a bit rich and like you say, built on hypocrisy given their party has been in support of segregation in the past. All the Democrats have done is try and divide the American people. How long have they been in office? What have they actually done to improve the lives of minorities? African americans aren't physically enslaved anymore but they sure as hell are mentally enslaved. You've got a political party telling them they are outcasts if they don't vote for them, and then you've got the mainstream media only reporting white on black crime to paint a narrative that America was just as racist as it was 100 years ago. Regardless of which political party you support, I reckon the media have been the most divisive of the lot. They don't mention that more white americans have been killed in police custody than blacks or that there have been black police officers that have killed unarmed white americans.

All it is is a way to keep african americans angry, to keep them believing that they can't make something of themselves, that their situation is untenable. And I guess you said the same thing in the last bit of your post. Misinformation and point scoring. There's definitely racist people in America just like there would be in any country, but if the media reported truthfully and the Democrats stopped pandering to minorities for votes I reckon America would see real change.

 

[George]

I know this is a general discussion place but seriously can we leave the politics alone on the StKilda FOOTY board, there is a politics section on the forums for those who want to venture into that region.

Will direct posts to that board in future, can understand from someone not involved in the conversation it can get tedious. Apologies.

 

[StCicatriz]

You're right, the Democrats of today pander for votes by telling african american's they "aren't black enough" if they don't vote Democrat and by dressing up in African garb to kneel in support of someone who isn't African. It's a bit rich and like you say, built on hypocrisy given their party has been in support of segregation in the past. All the Democrats have done is try and divide the American people. How long have they been in office? What have they actually done to improve the lives of minorities? African americans aren't physically enslaved anymore but they sure as hell are mentally enslaved. You've got a political party telling them they are outcasts if they don't vote for them, and then you've got the mainstream media only reporting white on black crime to paint a narrative that America was just as racist as it was 100 years ago. Regardless of which political party you support, I reckon the media have been the most divisive of the lot. They don't mention that more white americans have been killed in police custody than blacks or that there have been black police officers that have killed unarmed white americans.

All it is is a way to keep african americans angry, to keep them believing that they can't make something of themselves, that their situation is untenable. And I guess you said the same thing in the last bit of your post. Misinformation and point scoring. There's definitely racist people in America just like there would be in any country, but if the media reported truthfully and the Democrats stopped pandering to minorities for votes I reckon America would see real change.

You could remove the word democrat ask 1000 people who you are referring to and I reckon you would get a 50/50 split on what major party you are referring too.

The democracts of old were heavily conservative and down right racist. There will be no argument from anyone on that but you can't then extend that to say that's how the party operates now.

It holds 0% relevance!

The republican party has moved more and more moved to what the democrats of old were. Theyre becoming more and more conservative. Now heavily protectionist driven by popularism. Its starting to get a bit scary. Especially for things like the right to choose for a woman.

The democracts were looking like moving in the right direction and trying to become more progressive but sadly that regressed massively post Obama.

It looked like there might be light at the end of the tunnel when Obama won the nomination. There was talk of change. Universal health care. Gun control.

Both got dragged down by the GOP and conservative democracts.

Best we got was some good policy during the GFC. He saved their car industry and set the economy on an incredible path to recovery. He rescued the banks.

His big failure was the inquiry into the banks effectively let them off. Similar to scomo here.

Since then the GOP have taken over. Everything's been torn down and the countries moving further and further away from meaningful change.

I was hoping Bernie would win the nomination and we'd be back on the path fixing many issues in the states.

But then the democracts kick in and they've chosen to go down the same path as the repubicans. Its like their whole strategy is to be like them just slightly less ****ing crazy.

Which makes the shit fight of republican vs democract hilarious. They're not that far apart.

 

[StCicatriz]

Will direct posts to that board in future, can understand from someone not involved in the conversation it can get tedious. Apologies.

Extremely tedious. Now I'm dragged into and never wanted to be.

 

[gringo2011]

Never have gone where? What happened for them to leave?

I don't know but a lot of the regular poster have left and those two are two of the good guys on here. I think a lot of people got a bit upset with the political stuff. Hopefully there wasn't anything nasty that got them pissed off. I only realised Mowman had left because he hadn't posted for ages so went to message him and his account was cancelled. It won't be the same without those two, they are like Bigfooty family.

 

[StCicatriz]

The relevance is the hypocrisy with regard to the current Republican Party & Trump being blamed for 150 years of systemic racism in America. Trump has been in politics for a few of those 150 years FFS. If you want to direct blame start with a few of the politicians that have been in the game for 50 years & who make statements such as if you don’t vote for me you aren’t black.

My main issue with the left (on the extreme side) is they constantly resort to race politics & are supercharged on rage & emotion instead of looking at the facts. The removal of statues illustrates the hypocrisy & lack of understanding these criminals are resorting to ie human kind & civilisation has evolved, we all, yes all cultures, countries, religious groups have many skeletons in our closet & removing historic pieces & art & attempting to sweep it under the carpet is plain ignorance.

My statement was for both sides. Not just the republicans but the entire country.

Land of the free but you have people all basically ****ed from what is modern slavery now. Low minimal wage. Shit health care. Poor living conditions.

Students paying 100k for a degree thats seen prices rise over 1000%.

Trump is not the reason racism exists nor is it in America. Hes just part of the problem going right back to his days as a property developer.

His handling of these race issues has been extremely poor. Inflammatory. Basically a strategy of pouring gasoline on a fire that's been lit for decades and decades now.

Also many of these so called lefties are they even lefties or is it just a term people use to describe something they thinks bad? Like how we do we know what side of the political spectrum theyre on? You can have conservatives on the left and right. Likewise the progressive types. Ive seen people label democracts lefties for crying out loud and they're not on the left!!!!!! They're still on the right.

 

[George]

You could remove the word democrat ask 1000 people who you are referring to and I reckon you would get a 50/50 split on what major party you are referring too.

The democracts of old were heavily conservative and down right racist. There will be no argument from anyone on that but you can't then extend that to say that's how the party operates now.

It holds 0% relevance!

The republican party has moved more and more moved to what the democrats of old were. Theyre becoming more and more conservative. Now heavily protectionist driven by popularism. Its starting to get a bit scary. Especially for things like the right to choose for a woman.

The democracts were looking like moving in the right direction and trying to become more progressive but sadly that regressed massively post Obama.

It looked like there might be light at the end of the tunnel when Obama won the nomination. There was talk of change. Universal health care. Gun control.

Both got dragged down by the GOP and conservative democracts.

Best we got was some good policy during the GFC. He saved their car industry and set the economy on an incredible path to recovery. He rescued the banks.

His big failure was the inquiry into the banks effectively let them off. Similar to scomo here.

Since then the GOP have taken over. Everything's been torn down and the countries moving further and further away from meaningful change.

I was hoping Bernie would win the nomination and we'd be back on the path fixing many issues in the states.

But then the democracts kick in and they've chosen to go down the same path as the repubicans. Its like their whole strategy is to be like them just slightly less ******* crazy.

Which makes the shit fight of republican vs democract hilarious. They're not that far apart.

Telling the public they aren't black enough if they don't vote Democrat? No issue with that? They've oppressed minorities for decades. Obama did nothing for minorities, in many cases he made their situation much worse. I guess we disagree massively because I think Bernie Sanders is a lunatic. Many of his policies means that taxes will rise and that affects minorities and many regular americans. I don't know how else he expects to fund universities and staffing those universities if education is free.

Saw your other post about being dragged into it - you didn't need to reply in the first instance (not to me, but to whoever you initially posted to).

Hes just part of the problem going right back to his days as a property developer.

His handling of these race issues has been extremely poor. Inflammatory. Basically a strategy of pouring gasoline on a fire that's been lit for decades and decades now.

Both points are wrong.

I know this thread says random discussion but I can see many are over the political talk so will just re-direct people to the politics board if they want to continue discussion. Happy to leave it there.

 

[StCicatriz]

I don't know but a lot of the regular poster have left and those two are two of the good guys on here. I think a lot of people got a bit upset with the political stuff. Hopefully there wasn't anything nasty that got them pissed off. I only realised Mowman had left because he hadn't posted for ages so went to message him and his account was cancelled. It won't be the same without those two, they are like Bigfooty family.

He seemed a bit annoyed prior to leaving. He even cracked it at me and told me maybe its better I go follow someone else. He wasn't normally like that.

I hope he comes back. Sometimes you just need a break.

 

[George]

He seemed a bit annoyed prior to leaving. He even cracked it at me and told me maybe its better I go follow someone else. He wasn't normally like that.

I hope he comes back. Sometimes you just need a break.

He was sick of the constant negativity.

 

[StCicatriz]

Telling the public they aren't black enough if they don't vote Democrat? No issue with that? They've oppressed minorities for decades. Obama did nothing for minorities, in many cases he made their situation much worse. I guess we disagree massively because I think Bernie Sanders is a lunatic. Many of his policies means that taxes will rise and that affects minorities and many regular americans. I don't know how else he expects to fund universities and staffing those universities if education is free.

Saw your other post about being dragged into it - you didn't need to reply in the first instance (not to me, but to whoever you initially posted to).

I know this thread says random discussion but I can see many are over the political talk so will just re-direct people to the politics board if they want to continue discussion. Happy to leave it there.

Of course I have a massive issue with that!

Hence why I said in my initial post its an extremely complex problem.

Who is telling people that by the way? Because the party is a huge political entity like the republicans.

For example read up on how many democracts reacted to hilary clinton losing the nomination to Obama.

Read up on how they turned on sanders and then how sanders supporters reacted to it.

Its not like here where the parties are relatively small and very controlled.

Over there theyre big with many different and large factions.

Have you lived there?

Universities can charge 50k a semester. Kids or their parents are loading up on debt. Theyre effectively ****ed from the get go unless their parents are well off. That's occurred because its not regulated and prices have increased 1000% for the same content.

For example George do you have a uni degree?

 

[StCicatriz]

He was sick of the constant negativity.

Sad to hear. The negativity on here is no where near the levels its been on here in the past.

I actually think its been very positive post richo.

 

[George]

Of course I have a massive issue with that!

Hence why I said in my initial post its an extremely complex problem.

Who is telling people that by the way? Because the party is a huge political entity like the republicans.

For example read up on how many democracts reacted to hilary clinton losing the nomination to Obama.

Read up on how they turned on sanders and then how sanders supporters reacted to it.

Its not like here where the parties are relatively small and very controlled.

Over there theyre big with many different and large factions.

Joe Biden is telling people that.

I would say the Dems have a history of racially segregating people, either physically or mentally. You say Trump is pouring gasoline on the fire, I'm not sure how he is doing that, I think most of the narrative has come about from the mainstream media not reporting truthfully. It's interesting that when we speak of Trump, he is adding fuel to the fire and has handled the crisis badly, but when we speak of the Democrats, who have done it for 100 years, it's a complex problem and there's many different people involved.

 

[gringo2011]

Sad to hear. The negativity on here is no where near the levels its been on here in the past.

I actually think its been very positive post richo.

It's been a weird time during lock down. It seems a bit flat generally. Hopefully once we get some footy action he'll come back on. The Saints need to get him a win. We're all besties after a victory.

 

[George]

It's been a weird time during lock down. It seems a bit flat generally. Hopefully once we get some footy action he'll come back on. The Saints need to get him a win. We're all besties after a victory.

Just the same regulars who spend all their time arguing and hanging shit on the club. Two have left because of it. I'm sure many more will.

 

[StCicatriz]

Joe Biden is telling people that.

I would say the Dems have a history of racially segregating people, either physically or mentally. You say Trump is pouring gasoline on the fire, I'm not sure how he is doing that, I think most of the narrative has come about from the mainstream media not reporting truthfully. It's interesting that when we speak of Trump, he is adding fuel to the fire and has handled the crisis badly, but when we speak of the Democrats, who have done it for 100 years, it's a complex problem and there's many different people involved.

So this is the issue I was explaining earlier. Biden is like Trump. He says stupid shit and has a long history of doing so.

His voting record is poor. Hes not someone id say has a long history of integrity. Look at the Iraq war for example.

The democrats also have a good history of civil rights. For example Obama the first African American president is an incredibe achievement. Off the top of my head theyve broken ground for govenors senators etc. Something the republican party wasn't capable of doing.

But like the republicans they also have a long history of division.

Theres no good guy or bad guy here. I want to stress that. I am saying there is no good or bad guy here.

But let's just say Biden gaff here is an indication that there's a larger problem in the party.

What do we day about the republicans given trumps history:

Racial views of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[StCicatriz]

Just the same regulars who spend all their time arguing and hanging shit on the club. Two have left because of it. I'm sure many more will.

Here we go...

 

[Joffaboy]

He was sick of the constant negativity.

Like most of us were with the relentless negativity when Richo was coach.

Seems the negativity was fine and dandy then.
Weird.

 

[George]

So this is the issue I was explaining earlier. Biden is like Trump. He says stupid shit and has a long history of doing so.

His voting record is poor. Hes not someone id say has a long history of integrity. Look at the Iraq war for example.

The democrats also have a good history of civil rights. For example Obama the first African American president is an incredibe achievement. Off the top of my head theyve broken ground for govenors senators etc. Something the republican party wasn't capable of doing.

But like the republicans they also have a long history of division.

Theres no good guy or bad guy here. I want to stress that. I am saying there is no good or bad guy here.

But let's just say Biden gaff here is an indication that there's a larger problem in the party.

What do we day about the republicans given trumps history:

Racial views of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's interesting, his actions would say the complete opposite. Look at Obama as a prime example of the complete opposite. Said all the right things and did absolutely nothing.

Here we go...

You don't have to like it if you don't want to. He PM'd me before he cancelled his account. I tried to keep him around, he is one of the better people we have here. Unfortunately he had had enough of it and I'm sure many will follow.

 

[George]

Like most of us were with the relentless negativity when Richo was coach.

Seems the negativity was fine and dandy then.
Weird.

Not really, people were still warned, banned and removed from the forum.

 

[StCicatriz]

That's interesting, his actions would say the complete opposite. Look at Obama as a prime example of the complete opposite. Said all the right things and did absolutely nothing.


You don't have to like it if you don't want to. He PM'd me before he cancelled his account. I tried to keep him around, he is one of the better people we have here. Unfortunately he had had enough of it and I'm sure many will follow.

So what are you advocating for here? You want me to leave the forum [emoji1787]

 

[gringo2011]

Joe Biden is telling people that.

I would say the Dems have a history of racially segregating people, either physically or mentally. You say Trump is pouring gasoline on the fire, I'm not sure how he is doing that, I think most of the narrative has come about from the mainstream media not reporting truthfully. It's interesting that when we speak of Trump, he is adding fuel to the fire and has handled the crisis badly, but when we speak of the Democrats, who have done it for 100 years, it's a complex problem and there's many different people involved.

Most parties have their dirty past. Labor here had the white Australia policy. These days they court a more educated socially progressive type. The Libs were at one point talking about taking Australia and removing the democratic system. Menzies sold iron to Japan, our enemy. The Labor party was once the party for the working classes and so hated immigrants taking jobs etc. The Liberals were the party for the old money and small business voters. The Libs went after radical financial reforms while Labs went social justice light. My family were all conservatives for generations and they saw them as the steady as she goes, preserve the system types. Today both sides have a brand but they are both sell outs to the corporate take over of politics. I think being humanist makes me a better person so I vote Labor but still think they are shit, just slightly less shit because the others sell them self as the punitive party where you kick campaigners when they are down. Both do **** all though.