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[SaintsSeptember]

I don’t care about my income. I care about working. Mowing a lawn is one of the safest jobs you could have but once that crazy Jim guy threatened Andrews he like all politicians was never going to back down and use common sense about some jobs. As I said this lockdown in keeping people at home seems to be working worse than the start of stage3 four months ago. It’s lockdown fatigue and if you stuff up once why not twice

Thats my question too Plugger. Its so arbitrary. I see plenty of business activity which i'd consider unnecessary and reasonably high risk.
Why is it OK for some contractors to mow lawns? They were doing the edges of the Dandenong Bypass this morning.

Mowing laws could be done within 5km and be totally contactless.

They singled out the truck building industry as being able to operate.
The Caravan construction industry is however not able to operate.
The Caravan construction industry is bigger and more important for Victoria.

Where i work the gov changed their mind at midnight on the last day. I went home expecting an extended break. We'd packed up things at work not expecting to be using them for 6 weeks. Some of our customers were going to be **** and probably wouldn't be our customers when we got back.
Then 2 days later we were back.
They'd been asked about stage four weeks earlier, but still didn't know what it was on the day it came in!!!
Was he consulting with the actual business groups or was it the unions he was talking to , or was it just his mates?
What is his justification for keeping some businesses open and closing others?

There is plenty wrong with how they've handled things, but i don't disagree with the current CoronaVirus measures.

 

[George]

Really? What about how the second wave started? It’s basically been proven 99% of cases are from hotel quarantine. If that never starts we are most likely like nsw. I thought Andrews did a very good job in the first wave but I think the second wave is all on their government and now we have certain rules about working that make no sense.

99% are not from hotel quarantine. 65% of cases are from healthcare workers and aged care. Why he hasn't locked down certain sections of Victoria or areas of Victoria is the only thing I am annoyed about. Our entire state does not need to be in stage 4 lockdown because of a small minority who are making up the majority of cases.

This, coupled with the fact it's now proven that they have fudged the numbers (for political gain I assume) is sick. This isn't Andrews I'm talking about it's the entire country. My suburb has 2 active cases. Why we are in S4 lockdown is beyond me. Lockdown those that need it. Rest can move freely between selected suburbs if they wish, IMO.

When you look at what the CDC issued out last week you'd probably think differently about the seriousness of this virus if you haven't thought differently about it already. 6% of the deaths in America were 100% COVID related. They've been reporting that anyone that dies that has COVID died from COVID. 94% of the time this is not the case and the death was mainly due to other factors. I'm starting to question why not only our country but most of the world is still under some sort of lockdown rules given these figures. You'd assume the percentages would be similar all over the world.

You were correct about the useless Covid app as well. Has not found one single case that was not already known.

As for Andrews, he made plenty of stuff ups, so did Gladys Binchicken, and also Morrison, however the pile on as Faine says is appalling. Business demands we reopen, will they take responsibility when a third wave hits and kills hundreds more and incapacitates hundreds more.

Norman Swan said today research shows young people who gets this have a much higher risk of heart failure as they get older as the heart muscle and those around it are weakened by this. There was a young bloke on ABC this morning who 6 months after contracting covid is still very ill and has severe respiratory problems. it is not just the mortality, but the ongoing effects.

Also a Herald Sun poll showed 70% of Victorians approve of the handling of this by Andrews. Maybe the right don't like the fact that Andrews is trying to minimise the harm maybe they think #healthoverwealth is the not necessary.

I've never trusted this current government. I hope that people finally start to question new policies the Liberals introduce. From their handling of the bushfire crisis, to their many blunders when it comes to data security, to completely ruining our economy. I cannot wait for the day they are replaced. Preferably by Labor. They are completely incompetent, it's a shame so many just believe whatever the Murdoch press spits out.

It's pleasing to see Andrews get so much support from Victorians in the face of so much Liberal backlash. It's a hard thing to manage perfectly given we've never faced it before but he has done a great job. He has definitely led and led well.

 

[plugger66]

So your mates reckon O'Brien, the bloke who demanded the economy open in April would have handled it better? God give me strength? We would have hundreds of thousands of cases and thousands under him.

have you seen overseas? The US, Britain, Brazil, they are a complete shambles because they wouldn't tackle the health crisis first.

i am no Morrison fan but he went the totally opposite path with pretty good success.

As for your rant on holidays, you want to give away gazetted public holidays? And who says you wont be able to watch the GF with a couple of friends? Thats two months away, we might be all dead by then.

Again you must speak more in-depth than me. No one has mentioned that guy having said that what you are saying is just emotive crap. No one knows what would have happened and it couldn’t happened anyway because Andrews in charge. If we are going to guess maybe quarantine was handled better like all the other states under him. Who knows and more importantly it’s irrelevant

Yes I’m happy to give away a public holiday. Half the state has been in holidays for months And yes we might not be in stage 3 then but at the moment we are. Facts are more relevant than guesses at this stage.

 

[plugger66]

99% are not from hotel quarantine. 65% of cases are from healthcare workers and aged care. Why he hasn't locked down certain sections of Victoria or areas of Victoria is the only thing I am annoyed about. Our entire state does not need to be in stage 4 lockdown because of a small minority who are making up the majority of cases.

This, coupled with the fact it's now proven that they have fudged the numbers (for political gain I assume) is sick. This isn't Andrews I'm talking about it's the entire country. My suburb has 2 active cases. Why we are in S4 lockdown is beyond me. Lockdown those that need it. Rest can move freely between selected suburbs if they wish, IMO.

When you look at what the CDC issued out last week you'd probably think differently about the seriousness of this virus if you haven't thought differently about it already. 6% of the deaths in America were 100% COVID related. They've been reporting that anyone that dies that has COVID died from COVID. 94% of the time this is not the case and the death was mainly due to other factors. I'm starting to question why not only our country but most of the world is still under some sort of lockdown rules given these figures. You'd assume the percentages would be similar all over the world.


I've never trusted this current government. I hope that people finally start to question new policies the Liberals introduce. From their handling of the bushfire crisis, to their many blunders when it comes to data security, to completely ruining our economy. I cannot wait for the day they are replaced. Preferably by Labor. They are completely incompetent, it's a shame so many just believe whatever the Murdoch press spits out.

It's pleasing to see Andrews get so much support from Victorians in the face of so much Liberal backlash. It's a hard thing to manage perfectly given we've never faced it before but he has done a great job. He has definitely led and led well.

The health workers got it because of the quarantine muck ups. Anyway it’s all to late now. I’d love to lockdown certain areas but they tried that and it just kept spreading.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

99% are not from hotel quarantine. 65% of cases are from healthcare workers and aged care. Why he hasn't locked down certain sections of Victoria or areas of Victoria is the only thing I am annoyed about. Our entire state does not need to be in stage 4 lockdown because of a small minority who are making up the majority of cases.

This, coupled with the fact it's now proven that they have fudged the numbers (for political gain I assume) is sick. This isn't Andrews I'm talking about it's the entire country. My suburb has 2 active cases. Why we are in S4 lockdown is beyond me. Lockdown those that need it. Rest can move freely between selected suburbs if they wish, IMO.

When you look at what the CDC issued out last week you'd probably think differently about the seriousness of this virus if you haven't thought differently about it already. 6% of the deaths in America were 100% COVID related. They've been reporting that anyone that dies that has COVID died from COVID. 94% of the time this is not the case and the death was mainly due to other factors. I'm starting to question why not only our country but most of the world is still under some sort of lockdown rules given these figures. You'd assume the percentages would be similar all over the world.


I've never trusted this current government. I hope that people finally start to question new policies the Liberals introduce. From their handling of the bushfire crisis, to their many blunders when it comes to data security, to completely ruining our economy. I cannot wait for the day they are replaced. Preferably by Labor. They are completely incompetent, it's a shame so many just believe whatever the Murdoch press spits out.

It's pleasing to see Andrews get so much support from Victorians in the face of so much Liberal backlash. It's a hard thing to manage perfectly given we've never faced it before but he has done a great job. He has definitely led and led well.

Its from Quarantine.
Huge end of Ramadan parties. Into schools and aged care facilities.
All the sick people in hospitals spread it to healthcare workers. Who often spread it to other aged care facilities.
It didn't come from no-where.

Why are we in lock down? Because as a society we are irresponsible dickheads.
If we could trust people to do the right thing we wouldn't need it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The health workers got it because of the quarantine muck ups. Anyway it’s all to late now. I’d love to lockdown certain areas but they tried that and it just kept spreading.

They contained the commission flats pretty well, but Jesus didn't people cry about it.

 

[George]

Why are we in lock down? Because as a society we are irresponsible dickheads.
If we could trust people to do the right thing we wouldn't need it.

Well that's true but I also think it has gone overboard.

 

[gringo2011]

What about mental health. I’m shocked it’s still 70%. Nearly every single person that I knew as a labor person is pissed off with him at the moment.

He was dumb to do all the public health announcements himself. Scomo just his and pushed out his health officials to take the heat. Andrews let the media make him the face of the problem while Scomo managed the bad publicity well by going to ground. No one cares about good government they just want someone to blame. Andrews was dumb to not know that. I think he thought we’d appreciate leadership, we just want someone to Lynch. He just walked out with a sign around his neck.

Interesting that yesterday they were saying Richmond and the AFL will cost ALP the state election in Queensland. The opposition and media are showing the AFL as lazy ingrates ****ing up the state.

 

[George]

Scomo just his and pushed out his health officials to take the heat.

Probably sipping lattes overseas

 

[Joffaboy]

Its from Quarantine.
Huge end of Ramadan parties. Into schools and aged care facilities.
All the sick people in hospitals spread it to healthcare workers. Who often spread it to other aged care facilities.
It didn't come from no-where.

Why are we in lock down? Because as a society we are irresponsible dickheads.
If we could trust people to do the right thing we wouldn't need it.

Agree with everything here except that I reckon the vast majority of our society are responsible. the nature of this beast is that it is so infectious that with circumstance (Eid), it just took a few idiots in quarantine to pass it on and then it was into the community.

I reckon everyone who has contributed to this thread would be responsible, we may have different views, but I reckon we are all basically on the same page.

Normal sensible people understand it is a health emergency. Nobody, including me likes this lockdown, and I am one of the least affected, apart from not going to a cafe, or the footy or out to dinner. I can do all of my work from home, have a 4 bedroom house so the other two working from home have there own working space, top of the line FTTC NBN, work though a VPN, use Microsoft teams to be in contact with my work team.

I am fortunate, unlike thousands of others, and even i am sick to death of this, so I have enormous empathy for the people who can't work, have lost income, businesses etc.

My whole attitude is that if we don't get this to sustainable levels and have a 3rd wave, we will have a quantum leap in failed business and unemployment. Lets get this done once and for all FFS.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well that's true but I also think it has gone overboard.

We had stage 3 first, it was failing and not enforceable.

 

[George]

We had stage 3 first, it was failing and not enforceable.

I mean overboard in the sense that we shouldn't even be in lockdown. Based on what the CDC has said we shouldn't be in lockdown. I would support us locking down certain suburbs or certain sectors of society (in this case, healthcare and aged care) but let others go about their business. A month ago, when cases were in the daily 300's, the six suburbs around me had 5 total cases. I don't know why they cant pull these kinds of suburbs out of lockdown.

Anyway I can sense people are over it in Victoria and I would bet on many just not bothering to get tested anymore. If nobody tests cases will "drop" which will get us out. I'm sure many are of this thinking already.

 

[Joffaboy]

I mean overboard in the sense that we shouldn't even be in lockdown. Based on what the CDC has said we shouldn't be in lockdown. I would support us locking down certain suburbs or certain sectors of society (in this case, healthcare and aged care) but let others go about their business. A month ago, when cases were in the daily 300's, the six suburbs around me had 5 total cases. I don't know why they cant pull these kinds of suburbs out of lockdown.

Anyway I can sense people are over it in Victoria and I would bet on many just not bothering to get tested anymore. If nobody tests cases will "drop" which will get us out. I'm sure many are of this thinking already.

you mean the American CDC, the place that has 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds deaths? We are one thirteenth of their population, we would have 470,000 cases and over 14,000 dead if we followed their advice.

 

[George]

you mean the American CDC, the place that has 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds deaths? We are one thirteenth of their population, we would have 470,000 cases and over 14,000 dead if we followed their advice.

Yes the American CDC. If 6% of deaths are solely attributed to COVID in one country, why would the statistic be completely different in another? If it's not 6% here it would be something similar.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He was dumb to do all the public health announcements himself. Scomo just his and pushed out his health officials to take the heat. Andrews let the media make him the face of the problem while Scomo managed the bad publicity well by going to ground. No one cares about good government they just want someone to blame. Andrews was dumb to not know that. I think he thought we’d appreciate leadership, we just want someone to Lynch. He just walked out with a sign around his neck.

Interesting that yesterday they were saying Richmond and the AFL will cost ALP the state election in Queensland. The opposition and media are showing the AFL as lazy ingrates ******* up the state.

I have a friend in Queensland who is a mad Richmond nut.
I'm sure he's having the footy season of his life and will in no way be pissed off at the Politicians there.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I mean overboard in the sense that we shouldn't even be in lockdown. Based on what the CDC has said we shouldn't be in lockdown. I would support us locking down certain suburbs or certain sectors of society (in this case, healthcare and aged care) but let others go about their business. A month ago, when cases were in the daily 300's, the six suburbs around me had 5 total cases. I don't know why they cant pull these kinds of suburbs out of lockdown.

Anyway I can sense people are over it in Victoria and I would bet on many just not bothering to get tested anymore. If nobody tests cases will "drop" which will get us out. I'm sure many are of this thinking already.

America had widespread community transmission before they knew they had it. Their approach is not the same and shouldn't be.

Garbage the positive test rates proportions are dropping.
Less people actually have it.
Less needing to be tested. Less people getting tested found to have it.

 

[George]

America had widespread community transmission before they knew they had it. Their approach is not the same and shouldn't be.

Garbage the positive test rates proportions are dropping.
Less people actually have it.
Less needing to be tested. Less people getting tested found to have it.

I'm not comparing America's approach to ours.

 

[StCicatriz]

I mean overboard in the sense that we shouldn't even be in lockdown. Based on what the CDC has said we shouldn't be in lockdown. I would support us locking down certain suburbs or certain sectors of society (in this case, healthcare and aged care) but let others go about their business. A month ago, when cases were in the daily 300's, the six suburbs around me had 5 total cases. I don't know why they cant pull these kinds of suburbs out of lockdown.

Anyway I can sense people are over it in Victoria and I would bet on many just not bothering to get tested anymore. If nobody tests cases will "drop" which will get us out. I'm sure many are of this thinking already.

logistically very hard to do. how do you isolate one suburb into lock down? then as you add more it gets harder.

i've seen it here in WA when we had regional lock downs. what it really was was just a check point on a main road. drive 30 seconds, take a smaller feeder road and bang your outside the zone again.

not saying its right, just think maybe thats where they come from on it.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

They singled out the truck building industry as being able to operate.
The Caravan construction industry is however not able to operate.
The Caravan construction industry is bigger and more important for Victoria.

It flows down to boot. Because Jayco are shut we have or racks filled with thier stuff that has been completed or yet to be welded.
This extension to stage 4 screws us because we dont get paid until it gets delivered.
Non essential stuff is what keeps the lights on and allows the essential stuff to be made.

Not even job keeper is helping us right now.

Im now having to burn through my leave to get through it.
When we can open up theres a week im not taking off that I would normally would

 

[George]

logistically very hard to do. how do you isolate one suburb into lock down? then as you add more it gets harder.

i've seen it here in WA when we had regional lock downs. what it really was was just a check point on a main road. drive 30 seconds, take a smaller feeder road and bang your outside the zone again.

not saying its right, just think maybe thats where they come from on it.

It's already been done here before.

 

[plugger66]

It's already been done here before.

It has and it really didn’t work. I wish it did. Glen eira have a massive 21 active cases. Some suburbs in west have many hundreds. I’m starting to come around to what Kennett wanted to know. Are the people dying from or with COVID in nursing homes because it’s big bloody difference in stats if it’s with with COVID.

 

[George]

It has and it really didn’t work. I wish it did. Glen eira have a massive 21 active cases. Some suburbs in west have many hundreds. I’m starting to come around to what Kennett wanted to know. Are the people dying from or with COVID in nursing homes because it’s big bloody difference in stats if it’s with with COVID.

Well this is what I was talking about before. Some are saying they are listing anyone who dies that happens to have COVID as a COVID death when in actuality it could be anything. Someone could drop dead today and if they run an autopsy and find COVID, then they label it as that instead of what it actually was.

They've fudged the numbers. And it isn't just here it's all over the world. Incredible to see how many have died in America actually from COVID. 6%. I can only assume the other deaths would be regular deaths that happen in a normal year.

 

[plugger66]

Well this is what I was talking about before. Some are saying they are listing anyone who dies that happens to have COVID as a COVID death when in actuality it could be anything. Someone could drop dead today and if they run an autopsy and find COVID, then they label it as that instead of what it actually was.

They've fudged the numbers. And it isn't just here it's all over the world. Incredible to see how many have died in America actually from COVID. 6%. I can only assume the other deaths would be regular deaths that happen in a normal year.

Well it’s easily fixed. Give us an average percentage wise that have died in nursing homes over the last 10 years and compare to this year. That’s gives you a pretty good idea. If it’s one extra a week then we need to decide if all this is worth it for that. If it’s a big number then it is most likely worth it.

 

[George]

Well it’s easily fixed. Give us an average percentage wise that have died in nursing homes over the last 10 years and compare to this year. That’s gives you a pretty good idea. If it’s one extra a week then we need to decide if all this is worth it for that. If it’s a big number then it is most likely worth it.

Yeah I agree. This is why I posted about the USA's numbers. Not to compare us to them, but a virus is a virus, and it's the only information I can go by. 300m people is a big enough sample size and it works in our favour because America had presumably lots of community transmission before they got serious about it and still only 6% of those who died actually died from it.

I'm only assuming that that number in Australia is similar, and probably far less than that given our population and how hard we locked down.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yes the American CDC. If 6% of deaths are solely attributed to COVID in one country, why would the statistic be completely different in another? If it's not 6% here it would be something similar.

Soley. It was a fact at the beginning of all this, that people with pre existing conditions were more vulnerable. It is weasel words. They are rising 190,000 in the US deaths from covid related causes.

And this doesn't count ongoing illness, ongoing respiratory conditions that could be for life, and it has emerged today that heart failure for young patients will become more prevalent as they get olderdue to weakening of the muscles around the heart caused by covid.

Add to that the deaths from non covid issues because the hospitals will be overrun.

To use one spurious statistic to say we should not be locked down is like saying Savage has an 80% D/E without looking at the measurement of a D/E and the outcomes of the disposal (turnovers).