Discussion Random Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

To me he's been good Sutton, he's non partisan so I'm happy just to get him through until this is over and then review his position. He's actually done a really good job in keeping a clear and steady message and what he came up with seems to have worked. He might have been pulled into some bullshitting but at the end of the day it was a fu** up not corruption. Some dickhead in hindsight should have used health department workers or army but it's easy in hindsight. I can forgive the mistake but they should be honest about it and just get to the bottom of it.

Its clear the **** up is the DHHS.
There is a lot of noise ...but this is the main reason we got wide spread infection.

Hotel workers didn't isolate after COVID outbreak; guards 'slept on job'

A security guard distracted by his phone was blamed for a biosecurity breach in Victoria's hotel quarantine program, an inquiry hears, while the manager of the Rydges hotel details his response to an outbreak at the venue.

www.abc.net.au

On Friday, Rydges general manager Rosswyn Menezes said he found out his colleague had tested positive on May 26.
Mr Menezes said he ordered all staff who had worked in the weeks prior to come in and get tested.
"When I got tested … I asked [the] DHHS team leader on site: 'Should we self-isolate straight away?' And I believe what we were advised at that point was we did not have to because we're not a close contact," he told the inquiry.
"That's why nobody was stood down at that point."
Mr Menezes said he received a call from the department on May 30, telling him that everyone who had worked in the building over a certain period had to self-isolate for 14 days.

Then once it got into the community , there were hundreds of people just as "clever" as the Kilmore truck driver.

Tracing obviously got lost in the crowd during the peak of it. With low numbers tracing is fine.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Based on that then nsw are stuffed. They have been semi normal open for a fair while now. 40k to the footy this week. Racecourse with crowds. Nearly every type of business semi normal open yet have the odd few cases even double figures over the last few months. Why no outbreak?

NSW didn't have it go through their community like we did.
We still have tripple the active cases.

 

[plugger66]

You might be able to meet them for a picnic now.

Be ok if dad could leave home but he is to sick for that

 

[plugger66]

NSW didn't have it go through their community like we did.
We still have tripple the active cases.

I fail to get active cases and how they matter. Firstly they could be 3 or 4 weeks ago so probably not contagious and secondly they are supposed to be isolated.

 

[gringo2011]

Now the Feds pretending that they meant NZ people could leave NSW or Darwin. Politicians can't seem to tell the truth. You'd rate them a lot more if they just admit it was a **** up and they'll round them up and send them into Iso.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I fail to get active cases and how they matter. Firstly they could be 3 or 4 weeks ago so probably not contagious and secondly they are supposed to be isolated.

No different to the quarantine. They were supposed to be isolated as well. One of the cases from yesterday was a healthcare worker.

What the Andrews was actually saying is , that while places like Shepperton are obviously doing the right thing, he can't be sure we don't have another family of numb sculls working on the next outbreak in the Metro area , so he needs to be extra careful.
I'd suggest that he'll open up a bit more after next weekend if nothing goes wrong, but he's scared shitless to say that , because if he had to backpedal for some reason, he'd get lynched. He also seems a bit worried that the Grand Final could go like the end of Ramadan did, so i couldn't see him opening anything up before then.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Now the Feds pretending that they meant NZ people could leave NSW or Darwin. Politicians can't seem to tell the truth. You'd rate them a lot more if they just admit it was a fu** up and they'll round them up and send them into Iso.

Yeah they did. Its inconsequential though. Who cares if NZ people come into Victoria. They haven't got it.
What are our rules, NZ people need to quarantine for two weeks to come into Melbourne? What the hell for?
Getting out will be their problem.

 

[Yawkey way]

Yeah they did. Its inconsequential though. Who cares if NZ people come into Victoria. They haven't got it.
What are our rules, NZ people need to quarantine for two weeks to come into Melbourne? What the hell for?
Getting out will be their problem.

It’s the principle, we don’t have a travel bubble NSW and the NT do.

Andrews is right who’s next japan, South Korea ?. We’re isolated from the rest of the country at present because of action taken by them not us. Scott Morrison is a sleazy piece of work, he may have won this round with WA and victoria but it will come back to bite him on the arse. I so sick of Morrison and his coordinated attacks on Victoria, hunt and Frydenberg should shut the hell up.

Loved the budget josh, nothing for Victoria as per usual. No recognition of the circumstances here and the pot of gold that went to nsw compared to Victoria was a joke. Apparently our money will arrive sometime over the next ten years,
in other words a big middle finger.

NSW have been bloody lucky and I’m glad but one more rolled gold standard quote about the most Corrupt state in the country and I’ll loose my shit, a liberal prime minister with a hard on for a liberal premier.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With the use of Private security firms.
The Government chose 3 firms.
Wilson security, which did not seem to cause any quarantine breaches.

MSS were used at the North Melbourne flats, and the Stanford. The Stanford had a relatively minor breach.
An MSS guard made this comment.
--------------------------
A guard employed at several different quarantine hotels has described how security staff were regularly shifted between sites and sometimes only informed by SMS message the night before.
The guard said some subcontractors had treated safety protocols with contempt.

Security firm had guards at hotels and locked-down housing estates

MSS Security, one of three security companies linked to the coronavirus outbreak in quarantine hotels, also provides guards for the North Melbourne and Flemington public housing estates now under a hard lockdown.

www.theage.com.au

---------------------------

The Brad Howard selection award goes to Unified Security , a Sydney based firm with a fairly low number of Employees.
Unified were so ill equipped for the task , they simply pocketed a good chunk of the cash and did this......

Security firm with four full-time staff contracted to work at quarantine hotels

Sterling Services Group was contracted by Unified Security to fill more than 4000 shifts at 13 hotels, including the Rydges on Swanston, from March to July.

www.theage.com.au

It actually would have made more sense for the Vic government to contract SSG directly, at least SSG would have had the details of the contract.
Although SSG subcontracted across several hotels, Mr Aggarwal said in his statement that he was never provided any details of the head contract that the Victorian government entered into with Unified Security.

----------------------

The comments made by the MSS guard are concerning , but it also implies that there was a core of regular "career" guards there doing things properly.

None of the security operations was perfect, but it seems highly likely that the breach was allowed to occur due to the selection of Unified.
A large function of the enquiry should be focussed on who was given the responsibility of selecting the contractors and their process of selection.

I can hire a car from a private hire company, lets think.....hmmm Hertz , Europcar, I know...Dandenong Rent a Bomb!!!!.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah they did. Its inconsequential though. Who cares if NZ people come into Victoria. They haven't got it.
What are our rules, NZ people need to quarantine for two weeks to come into Melbourne? What the hell for?
Getting out will be their problem.

It's the principal, several states asked not to be involved. The government said it was only Sydney and Darwin.....next minute. I think they didn't think a step beyond the financial gain of getting tourists back. I don't care but just say sorry, stuffed it up and move on. They are pretending that it's nothing to do with them. It adds another lot of shit to chase up on our already stretched public health officials just as we are getting on top of it.

I did love Alan Tudge getting called Alan Tunt, supposedly he is.

 

[gringo2011]

With the use of Private security firms.
The Government chose 3 firms.
Wilson security, which did not seem to cause any quarantine breaches.

MSS were used at the North Melbourne flats, and the Stanford. The Stanford had a relatively minor breach.
An MSS guard made this comment.
--------------------------
A guard employed at several different quarantine hotels has described how security staff were regularly shifted between sites and sometimes only informed by SMS message the night before.
The guard said some subcontractors had treated safety protocols with contempt.

Security firm had guards at hotels and locked-down housing estates

MSS Security, one of three security companies linked to the coronavirus outbreak in quarantine hotels, also provides guards for the North Melbourne and Flemington public housing estates now under a hard lockdown.

www.theage.com.au

---------------------------

The Brad Howard selection award goes to Unified Security , a Sydney based firm with a fairly low number of Employees.
Unified were so ill equipped for the task , they simply pocketed a good chunk of the cash and did this......

Security firm with four full-time staff contracted to work at quarantine hotels

Sterling Services Group was contracted by Unified Security to fill more than 4000 shifts at 13 hotels, including the Rydges on Swanston, from March to July.

www.theage.com.au

It actually would have made more sense for the Vic government to contract SSG directly, at least SSG would have had the details of the contract.
Although SSG subcontracted across several hotels, Mr Aggarwal said in his statement that he was never provided any details of the head contract that the Victorian government entered into with Unified Security.

----------------------

The comments made by the MSS guard are concerning , but it also implies that there was a core of regular "career" guards there doing things properly.

None of the security operations was perfect, but it seems highly likely that the breach was allowed to occur due to the selection of Unified.
A large function of the enquiry should be focussed on who was given the responsibility of selecting the contractors and their process of selection.

I can hire a car from a private hire company, lets think.....hmmm Hertz , Europcar, I know...Dandenong Rent a Bomb!!!!.

It's one of those ones that if they go straight to the big guys they get slammed for being biased. In reality we should have a bigger public service who are trained and regulated. Private enterprise is the first to call for deregulation and privatisation until they **** up and then everything is the governments fault. Big businesses take all the cash they can and then when it's time to invest they cut and run.

 

[gringo2011]

No different to the quarantine. They were supposed to be isolated as well. One of the cases from yesterday was a healthcare worker.

What the Andrews was actually saying is , that while places like Shepperton are obviously doing the right thing, he can't be sure we don't have another family of numb sculls working on the next outbreak in the Metro area , so he needs to be extra careful.
I'd suggest that he'll open up a bit more after next weekend if nothing goes wrong, but he's scared shitless to say that , because if he had to backpedal for some reason, he'd get lynched. He also seems a bit worried that the Grand Final could go like the end of Ramadan did, so i couldn't see him opening anything up before then.

The Orthodox Jews near us had trouble following the rules for Sukkot too. Some guy filming them got bashed. In New York they are a big problem because they won't follow health laws and have applied to the Supreme Court because they believe it limits their religious freedom. Who ever their leaders are seem hell bent on stupidity.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Orthodox Jews near us had trouble following the rules for Sukkot too. Some guy filming them got bashed. In New York they are a big problem because they won't follow health laws and have applied to the Supreme Court because they believe it limits their religious freedom. Who ever their leaders are seem hell bent on stupidity.

Set fire to their beards.

 

[gringo2011]

Set fire to their beards.

They leave you alone, they'll just spread it to each other which is mental decision making by their religious leaders. They are the hardcore orthodox guys who dress in the big bearskin hats and stuff. they're like something out of a movie.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's one of those ones that if they go straight to the big guys they get slammed for being biased. In reality we should have a bigger public service who are trained and regulated. Private enterprise is the first to call for deregulation and privatisation until they fu** up and then everything is the governments fault. Big businesses take all the cash they can and then when it's time to invest they cut and run.

One of my big issues with Unified is that they didn't even do the work at all.
MSS and Wilson were actually running their operations.

Suppose I have a business that performs a service.
A prospective customer checks me out, checks out my business, the way i do things, training etc etc.
When i win the job, i don't have capacity, so i simply pocket the money and hire another cheaper company to take it on. What's more i don't even forward a copy of the original contract, they only know my version of what the customer wants.

The issue is not that a "Private" company was used. Its that they selected a company that didn't even perform the work or organise the work in the way required. The public service numb sculls allowed themselves to be rorted. Its about as smart as letting that random guy who rings you up claiming to be from microsoft access your computer.

If you go to Puckapunyal to see the tank museum, you'll notice its not ADF people manning the gate. But its not "Dodgy Brothers security" either.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They leave you alone, they'll just spread it to each other which is mental decision making by their religious leaders. They are the hardcore orthodox guys who dress in the big bearskin hats and stuff. they're like something out of a movie.

The really weird ones become president of Melbourne Demons.

 

[gringo2011]

One of my big issues with Unified is that they didn't even do the work at all.
MSS and Wilson were actually running their operations.

Suppose I have a business that performs a service.
A prospective customer checks me out, checks out my business, the way i do things, training etc etc.
When i win the job, i don't have capacity, so i simply pocket the money and hire another cheaper company to take it on. What's more i don't even forward a copy of the original contract, they only know my version of what the customer wants.

The issue is not that a "Private" company was used. Its that they selected a company that didn't even perform the work or organise the work in the way required. The public service numb sculls allowed themselves to be rorted. Its about as smart as letting that random guy who rings you up claiming to be from microsoft access your computer.

If you go to Puckapunyal to see the tank museum, you'll notice its not ADF people manning the gate. But its not "Dodgy Brothers security" either.

There was a story on how shit the security industry is about a year ago. Governments have dropped regulations so that industries can do it themselves. It's insane. Lots of the security that do clubs and pubs put all responsibility on the staff and no job security or safety training. Heaps of outsourcing after a one day TAFE course just about anyone can do it. They failed to check criminal records or even take an interest.

Modern business is about skimming, a mate from the UK had his friends out from there. They were engineers and they told a story about a small bridge they designed that had been built, the tender was won and went through about 10 sets of hands before it ended up being built by international students with no experience and the company used the cheapest materials they could get. It fell down before it could be used fortunately but no-one was even checking it. Then did it again with the same process of someone winning the tender and on selling the contract until the government had to step in a stop it all happening again. For a basic footbridge it cost millions more than it's value to save money and the government had to take responsibility for it anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

The really weird ones become president of Melbourne Demons.

He was a criminal old Joe.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There was a story on how sh*t the security industry is about a year ago. Governments have dropped regulations so that industries can do it themselves. It's insane. Lots of the security that do clubs and pubs put all responsibility on the staff and no job security or safety training. Heaps of outsourcing after a one day TAFE course just about anyone can do it. They failed to check criminal records or even take an interest.

Modern business is about skimming, a mate from the UK had his friends out from there. They were engineers and they told a story about a small bridge they designed that had been built, the tender was won and went through about 10 sets of hands before it ended up being built by international students with no experience and the company used the cheapest materials they could get. It fell down before it could be used fortunately but no-one was even checking it. Then did it again with the same process of someone winning the tender and on selling the contract until the government had to step in a stop it all happening again. For a basic footbridge it cost millions more than it's value to save money and the government had to take responsibility for it anyway.

Anything that goes out for tender needs to be specified to the hilt.
I don't know how you could design a bridge without specifying materials for example, its why you use Engineers to design it and not artists. If they don't use the right materials , then they are not fulfilling the contract. ( The Brooklyn bridge is built with inferior steel cabling, each coil was meant to be inspected on the way to the bridge, the contractor had a good one that was switching with the crappy stuff between the inspection location and the construction site - so not a new phenomenon ).

Governments just do it wrong. Tendering should be pretty simple, but for some reason Governments seem to have a clause on bottom that says, "ripping us off will be acceptable "

Whoever did the tendering on the Desalination plant should be in Jail.
W.A. built one with half the capacity , for around 1/7 the cost.

 

[gringo2011]

Anything that goes out for tender needs to be specified to the hilt.
I don't know how you could design a bridge without specifying materials for example, its why you use Engineers to design it and not artists. If they don't use the right materials , then they are not fulfilling the contract. ( The Brooklyn bridge is built with inferior steel cabling, each coil was meant to be inspected on the way to the bridge, the contractor had a good one that was switching with the crappy stuff between the inspection location and the construction site - so not a new phenomenon ).

Governments just do it wrong. Tendering should be pretty simple, but for some reason Governments seem to have a clause on bottom that says, "ripping us off will be acceptable "

Whoever did the tendering on the Desalination plant should be in Jail.
W.A. built one with half the capacity , for around 1/7 the cost.

It's illegal but if no-one checks it off it ends up the final builders responsibility. Try suing an Indian student for $16 million dollars and see how far it gets you. I remember someone saying that Marvel would have been half full to the top in solid concrete if they got what they paid for, trucks were lapping the bock and taking payment slips each time all day with out going back to depots.

I know tradies that call it a government tax when quoting. They claim the excessive regulatory compliance makes it harder, which I think is code for doubling or tripling a quote.

All those businesses like Uber, AirBNB etc all just skim money without doing anything. They are really just parasite companies. Disruptive industry is just another way to remove regulation and checks to make it more profitable without providing anything.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's illegal but if no-one checks it off it ends up the final builders responsibility. Try suing an Indian student for $16 million dollars and see how far it gets you. I remember someone saying that Marvel would have been half full to the top in solid concrete if they got what they paid for, trucks were lapping the bock and taking payment slips each time all day with out going back to depots.

I know tradies that call it a government tax when quoting. They claim the excessive regulatory compliance makes it harder, which I think is code for doubling or tripling a quote.

All those businesses like Uber, AirBNB etc all just skim money without doing anything. They are really just parasite companies. Disruptive industry is just another way to remove regulation and checks to make it more profitable without providing anything.

Lets get Plugger and Mowman started on Jim's.

 

[CaptainRisky]

You might be able to meet them for a picnic now.

Still sucks for me , My new boat is in a shed in Narre Warren North and im the CBD , 3 months and i still haven't used it once

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Still sucks for me , My new boat is in a shed in Narre Warren North and im the CBD , 3 months and i still haven't used it once

I could take it to Mordy for you

 

[plugger66]

Still sucks for me , My new boat is in a shed in Narre Warren North and im the CBD , 3 months and i still haven't used it once

I Will grab for you when I mow the lawn right next to it. I’m sure it needs mowing.

 

[gringo2011]

Why we don't have public services any more.

Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems

Financial meltdown, environmental disaster and even the rise of Donald Trump – neoliberalism has played its part in them all. Why has the left failed to come up with an alternative?

www.theguardian.com