Discussion Random Discussion

[StCicatriz]

Ben Shapiro said that there is no need to worry about rising sea levels impacting coastal house prices, because if they start going underwater their owners can just sell them.

He ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, nor does he try to be, he just throws meat to the base.

his argument on universal health care was hilarious. he's not an enlightened mind, he's just a ****in idiot.

 

[StCicatriz]

Must not have seen it.

Irrespective of who you vote for, surely you don't seriously believe a country of more than 330 million with the power they have wouldn't rig (or even try to rig) an election?

you think they rigged this election against trump?

 

[flyingmagic]

Going for lunch - hope it gets wrapped up today.

Am a Trump supporter but more importantly want a fair election Republican or Democrat. If it is found the Dems win fairly then good luck to them. I just worry for their country. It is like watching a game of footy this election though - swinging back and forth, very close.

Trump hate gets so boring, wish the conversation would be objective and with the facts presented. Did make comment earlier Trump had won, because it had looked that way last night before the very unusual swing of MI and now PA. American elections have been rigged before so lets not assume this one isn't - it's probably the most important one in that nations history. Republican OR Democrat. But to say it isn't rigged at all...c'mon, lol.

"very unusual swing"

- This was the most predictable thing ever and is what a lot of experts have been saying for ages. They can't count their mail-in ballots until the end of election day (unlike other states) and democrats voted by mail far more than republicans. If it all got reported at the same time there wouldn't even be question.

- pretty hard to see how/where it is rigged.

- remember, facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[StCicatriz]

this is how dictators happen

 

[LiterallyNobody]

One thing I don't understand about this (well several but this is particularly pertinent):
They have 84% of the votes in for AZ and yet they have called it for Biden yet they are not calling NC or GA even though both have 99%?

 

[Pardon me]

One thing I don't understand about this (well several but this is particularly pertinent):
They have 84% of the votes in for AZ and yet they have called it for Biden yet they are not calling NC or GA even though both have 99%?

Arizona may have more votes to make up than population left to count
Ie: the gap may be 80k and the remaining votes to count are only 70k
Depending on what the criteria is also affects how AZ is called - some agencies go off the above example, others go off historical voting preferences for the areas left to count.

 

[StCicatriz]

what is interesting is where America goes from here. I agree with George's sentiment that America is so divided. Using another George, this what George Washington said:

“There cannot a greater judgment befall a country than a dreadful spirit of division as rends a government into two distinct people, and makes them greater strangers, and more averse to one another, than if they were actually two different nations. The effects of such a division are pernicious to the last degree, not only with regard to those advantages which they give the common enemy, but to those private evils which they produce in the heart of almost every particular person. This influence is very fatal both to men’s morals and their understandings; it sinks the virtue of a nation, and not only so, but destroys even common sense. A furious party spirit, when it rages in its full violence, exerts itself in civil war and bloodshed; and when it is under its greatest restraints, naturally breaks out in falsehood, detraction, calumny, and a partial administration of justice. In a word, it fills a nation with spleen and rancor, and extinguishes all the seeds of good nature, compassion and humanity.”

he warned that if the nation went along partisan lines they open themselves up to be exploited by outside influences and even civil war

Trump is never going to heal the division he will only add to it. Biden is not a perfect candidate but he has shown more compassion and the ability to work with both sides of politics. Republicans are on record stating how decent Biden is as a person. He's well liked and respected. Much in the same way McCain was respected on both sides.

Trump on the other hand is seen as a bully and dis-tasteful, see his comments on McCain for example or those who died at war.

the US needs to get over the divisive rhetoric they use. hell even the whole Fake News slogan was a take away from the Nazi Germany playbook.

the first step needs to be resounding push back on the fraudulent election claims. this shit absolutely needs to be called out. its wrong and undermines not only democracy in america but also the world.

 

[StCicatriz]

this is what Trump has done, instead of urging patience for due process and explaining how the system works. he has tried to shed doubt on the outcome and inflame his base to undermine democracy:


this is scary. these people are not smart. they are easily manipulated.

you need to provide leadership and urge civility. instead we get this shit.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, I had a look through some of my chat logs with people I've been discussing the election with.

For over three months I've been trying to prepare people for the fact that Trump would appear to be winning on election night, he would declare victory knowing it's too early to tell, would send his militias to obstruct and intimidate the election officials (luckily doesn't seem to have occured) and then take any close states, likely to be Pennsylvania or Michigan to the Supreme Court.

This has been the slowest moving car accident of all time.

I am honestly impressed at just how well the Trump campaign knew the votes were going to play out, they even knew which states to take to the state supreme court ahead of time.

This isn't a socialist or republican issues, this is a world leader trying to circumvent the democratic process. The doubt that he has cast on the election process will likely last for a generation, this should be condemned by all involved.

Anybody who is still defending Trump at this point, is merely defending their own ego.

It's not really a big surprise though, Trump was always good at finding ways of pushing the law to one side in business and as president. It is pretty much what would be expected of him. Try to ignore the legal system until he can use it to manipulate an advantage while causing public distrust of institutions of law. People hate lawyers and the legal system but with out strong laws and systems you just have anarchy. Trump is a borderline anarcho-capitalist. He's done so much damage to an already shaky public trust. I really can't see how they are going to right the ship in any real way there.

 

[StCicatriz]

 

[gringo2011]

For me it is merely fascination but election day is kind of like sport - you're watching the numbers and generally barrcking for one team so it's kind of exciting.

Or maybe I just make it exciting lol


As for who wins, couldn't care less. I've said numerous times, both candidates are awful BUT better the devil you know. So I guess you could say I'm a Trump supporter. Will I cry if he loses though? Hell, no.

US politics is like a horrible soap opera or reality TV show where just when you think your outrage and scorn couldn't spike any more they find newer and more insane ways to suck you back in.

To try to get some climate action happening the world needs to move Trump out IMO. Not that the Dems are much better in that regard.

 

[gringo2011]

Doesn't really matter who has posted it just need to look at the numbers referenced in the post.

If he's not just talking shit.

 

[BigPowerForward]

Must not have seen it.

Irrespective of who you vote for, surely you don't seriously believe a country of more than 330 million with the power they have wouldn't rig (or even try to rig) an election?

How could the voting process be manipulated to such a degree that it changes the result though George
Where can that manipulation happen along the voting process.
The processes in Australia and the USA are similar
Every voter has to be registered and ticked off so multiple votes are very unlikely.
Every ballot box is tamper evident sealed with random numbered (sometimes alpha numeric) security seals or tamper evident security tapes that are recorded and checked before opening the ballot boxes and counting the votes. Forging of the security seals/tapes is difficult because you would have to know the numbering and the colour of the security seals/tapes ahead of time.
Every counting booth has scrutineers that check that protocols are being followed and the votes being counted
Even if you could substitute votes, how could you do it on such a scale and at enough separate polling booths to change an election result
For postal votes signatures have to be verified and there are also scrutineers involved in the process
I just can't see how rigging on a mass scale is possible.

The little red thing on the side of the ballot box is the security seal.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Arizona may have more votes to make up than population left to count
Ie: the gap may be 80k and the remaining votes to count are only 70k
Depending on what the criteria is also affects how AZ is called - some agencies go off the above example, others go off historical voting preferences for the areas left to count.

I feel like we're getting conflicting reports here - some are saying there are 600k votes to count there but the gap is only 80k....

I don't know who to trust - I feel like every party just spins it to suit their narrative.

 

[George]

Whole lotta posts to get through. I'll try my best.

i've lived there, the problem the states have is that there is no central media like there is here.

we have a limited number of traditional sources: ABC, SBS, 9, CBS, 7. Rupert then controls all the print media pretty much.

in the US it's a free for all and it's state by state/city by city.

but you can't deny the influence Fox has, which has been proven over two decades now. it pumps out fear to a base that is hard wired to receive it.

the bigger issue we have now though from a media stand point IMO isn't so much rupert or print media or TV, it just our access to information via the internet.

at first this was an amazing thing, it meant we could get the "truth" at a click of the button. everything was fact based pretty much. which created problems for those in power who were doing the wrong thing. but they've worked it out, all you do now is pump the medium full of misinformation and then no one knows what is right or wrong anymore.

Rupert/Fox/Trump they get this, if you pump it full of crap, people won't know any better and that's how you end up with this MAGA bullshit, where people believe Obama was born overseas or Biden is a pedo and so on.

I think it's a problem on both fronts. Yes there's no central media in the states but they all have an agenda, republican or not. Before I even side with Trump I am more for a true democracy not ruined or compromised by a media machine that controls the narrative of the most powerful country on the planet. I'll be really clear and say that if I would more prefer someone to win fairly then to have the result questioned and end up proven to have been tampered with. If Biden wins, and he wins fairly, all power to him. I am not stupid enough to sit here and blindly defend the republican party or categorically say that there is mass voter fraud. All I am saying is that a swing of this magnitude in this amount of time is unusual and I would hope that that's just how it is. For anyone to argue against that (the want to have a fair and accurate election) has an agenda. I think we can all agree on this point no matter what side of the fence we sit on.

i agree with this 100%. again you need to watch the great divide documentary, it goes over how the republicans and democracts had a strong working relationship. this fell down when clinton took the nomination but then got back to business as normal, only to then go down the path we have today from the tea party/sarah palin movement. since then it's been an absolute dog fest.

the real issue in america right now is it has too big issues:
- the squeeze on the middle class
- racial tension from the changing demographics



this i can't agree with. you can't have a president retweet white supremacist bullshit and expect that to go un-noticed or just washed off like it doesn't matter. it does matter to a lot of americans, because they are minorities. people brush this off that it's just trump speak, the problem is it's incredibly divisive and is intended to be such to appeal to his base.

we need to get back to using the function of government in the right way. the president is not there to run government departments. he's not there to implement policy.

he's pretty much just a spokesperson and the brand, with maybe 2-3 items of policy he thinks will improve the country.

the problem with trump is he is an absolutely horrible spokesperson. he will openly lie. he will adlib stuff that makes him look like an absolute fool. but worse than that, he's prepared to through jarbs out there deliberately meant to hurt, alienate and create divide.



now do Trump is all i can say. there's a good video out there summing up his 4 years. its absolutely insane and it's absolutely mental it's going to end in him trying to uproot the very foundations of democracry.

maybe you answered your own question though: "do they think the americans are stupid?"

hmmmmm

I'll check it out mate and thanks for suggesting. You say Trump can't tweet out something about white supremacy but his actions and policies actually reflect a completely different image. He passed criminal reform in the United States, something Barack Obama - who was widely loved - didn't manage to do. In fact, the person Trump is running against passed a crime bill in 1994 that incarcerated african americans. So if we are to talk about racial divide I think Trump falls 3rd in line on that list behind mainstream media and Joe Biden.

Maybe this is just a difference in opinion but I don't particularly care what he says. I care more about the policies he implements and the changes he makes. In this election he has the most black votes for a republican candidate since 1960. That is telling. Despite what the media want to trot out, this is evidence to suggest minorities in America have had enough of being pandered to by the Democrats from someone who imprisoned their families for decades over minor offences. This is just facts, this isn't hearsay or opinion or anything of the sort. If we are to have an objective discussion about American politics we need to give credit and criticism where it is due. I don't agree with Trump on everything. But out of the two currently running for office I would much rather have him over a guy that has been there half a century and has nothing to show for it.

IS this in reference to the supposed mail fraud George? The swings are due to the early and mail counts. Not sure they classify as "unusual"? This has been reported for weeks that it would be the case.

View attachment 1003854

as per the ABC (Australian) live blog.

It's unusual because election day votes predominantly come from republicans, not democrats. Sure the Dems could get more election day votes than the republicans but the swings are just way too much for it to be anything 'normal'.

the left? who are the left? the democrats? biden?

More so the mainstream media who are fuelling it.

it will be interesting where those ballots come from. if its the suburbs, he's done.

if he wins arizona by biden takes Pennsylvania is it for nothing though?

Yep true. Trump is favoured to win AZ because the counties that are left to tally are currently all in favour of Trump bar one if I remember correctly. Haven't checked it for about an hour. But you are right mate if Biden wins PA it's over. But it's even easier for Biden. If he wins NV it's over. This is why Trump has to flip AZ because it's worth 11 electoral votes, along with holding in the states he currently leads - GA, NC, PA and he will win Alaska but that doesn't really matter as it's only worth 3 electoral votes.

you think they rigged this election against trump?

I don't know what has happened but the swing is unusual and from the stuff coming out now about fraud in MI and WI it's just all a bit too murky. Again and I must reiterate because people here are so anti-Trump that I must spell it out for them - if Biden wins fairly then fair play to him. I am pro-Trump HOWEVER above ALL ELSE I want a fair election. WHOEVER ends up winning.

"very unusual swing"

- This was the most predictable thing ever and is what a lot of experts have been saying for ages. They can't count their mail-in ballots until the end of election day (unlike other states) and democrats voted by mail far more than republicans. If it all got reported at the same time there wouldn't even be question.

- pretty hard to see how/where it is rigged.

- remember, facts don't care about your feelings.

Election day votes are predominantly republican. Not too sure why you are getting so worked up, it's just a difference of opinion/view. I want Trump to win and I think Biden will ruin the country. You don't. That's fine. I'm not attacking you for it, I don't know why you think it's ok for you to do so.

what is interesting is where America goes from here. I agree with George's sentiment that America is so divided. Using another George, this what George Washington said:


he warned that if the nation went along partisan lines they open themselves up to be exploited by outside influences and even civil war

Trump is never going to heal the division he will only add to it. Biden is not a perfect candidate but he has shown more compassion and the ability to work with both sides of politics. Republicans are on record stating how decent Biden is as a person. He's well liked and respected. Much in the same way McCain was respected on both sides.

Trump on the other hand is seen as a bully and dis-tasteful, see his comments on McCain for example or those who died at war.

the US needs to get over the divisive rhetoric they use. hell even the whole Fake News slogan was a take away from the Nazi Germany playbook.

the first step needs to be resounding push back on the fraudulent election claims. this sh*t absolutely needs to be called out. its wrong and undermines not only democracy in america but also the world.

I'm actually surprised that someone would agree with me on the discussion about racial divide in the US. I'm actually really pleased you do agree there (that the mainstream are fuelling racial tension and hatred in America).

However it's not about any politician mate. It's about the mainstream and their narrative. They control the masses and with their misreporting of the facts & events they control power. This is probably going to open up another can of worms but look at how they report white on black crime and then look at how they report black on white crime or even black on black crime. You don't hear about it. Why? Because they want to keep black Americans mentally enslaved. To continue to think that they cannot make a success of themselves in America. Always someone against them. Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) said that he'd have blacks voting Democrat for the next 200 years. Their aim is to keep racial tension high. To keep people fighting amongst one another. If it isn't for equal pay it's for the LGBT community and if it isn't for that it's for race. Not saying these issues don't exist at all, but to the extent the media wants people to believe? No way in hell. Cannon Hinnant, a 5 year old white child, was murdered in broad daylight by an african american man. And because of this, CNN didn't even report on it. CNN! A mainstream news outlet. Nothing. Yet they fuel the narrative to defund the police because examples like an african american man resists arrest and charges at a police offer with a knife, gets shot and dies. Where's the fairness in the reporting? Why should the public have to accept this stuff?

And please don't generalise anything I've said above. Yes some events are warranted (George Floyd death disgraceful) and others have their place too but for the most part (and I mean 95%) the news is only one way. Divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book.

The quicker we start thinking for ourselves the better off we will all be. Because I sure as shit can't see any mainstream news outlet giving us the true story.

 

[gringo2011]

Im shocked to learn this is the highest voter turnout in ages - 150 odd million votes in a country of 350mil is mind boggling to me. Do they simpy not care?

The people don't get much from government there. I think most feel like it doesn't matter who you vote for.

 

[George]

I feel like we're getting conflicting reports here - some are saying there are 600k votes to count there but the gap is only 80k....

I don't know who to trust - I feel like every party just spins it to suit their narrative.

What do you mean? When I posted there was 600k votes left and Trump down 80k. I posted the maths on it before but if he wins 58% of the remaining vote he wins AZ. I just read 74k votes had been counted and Trump won 62% of them so he is on pace.

 

[gringo2011]

there is some truth to this. Rupert did not want Trump. Rupert hated Trump.

however, the guy in charge of Fox loved Trump, to the point he was briefing him behind Ruperts back. Then it became apparent Trump was going to role Jeb Bush, so Rupert had no choice (also due to the whole UK sh*t), but to go along for the ride. He's never looked back since.

I always thought that was a ruse. That pretending that Trump was an outsider was what made him popular. It was a beefed up Tea Party II.

 

[George]

If he's not just talking sh*t.

Look it up for yourself then haha

 

[flyingmagic]

Whole lotta posts to get through. I'll try my best.


I think it's a problem on both fronts. Yes there's no central media in the states but they all have an agenda, republican or not. Before I even side with Trump I am more for a true democracy not ruined or compromised by a media machine that controls the narrative of the most powerful country on the planet. I'll be really clear and say that if I would more prefer someone to win fairly then to have the result questioned and end up proven to have been tampered with. If Biden wins, and he wins fairly, all power to him. I am not stupid enough to sit here and blindly defend the republican party or categorically say that there is mass voter fraud. All I am saying is that a swing of this magnitude in this amount of time is unusual and I would hope that that's just how it is. For anyone to argue against that (the want to have a fair and accurate election) has an agenda. I think we can all agree on this point no matter what side of the fence we sit on.


I'll check it out mate and thanks for suggesting. You say Trump can't tweet out something about white supremacy but his actions and policies actually reflect a completely different image. He passed criminal reform in the United States, something Barack Obama - who was widely loved - didn't manage to do. In fact, the person Trump is running against passed a crime bill in 1994 that incarcerated african americans. So if we are to talk about racial divide I think Trump falls 3rd in line on that list behind mainstream media and Joe Biden.

Maybe this is just a difference in opinion but I don't particularly care what he says. I care more about the policies he implements and the changes he makes. In this election he has the most black votes for a republican candidate since 1960. That is telling. Despite what the media want to trot out, this is evidence to suggest minorities in America have had enough of being pandered to by the Democrats from someone who imprisoned their families for decades over minor offences. This is just facts, this isn't hearsay or opinion or anything of the sort. If we are to have an objective discussion about American politics we need to give credit and criticism where it is due. I don't agree with Trump on everything. But out of the two currently running for office I would much rather have him over a guy that has been there half a century and has nothing to show for it.


It's unusual because election day votes predominantly come from republicans, not democrats. Sure the Dems could get more election day votes than the republicans but the swings are just way too much for it to be anything 'normal'.


More so the mainstream media who are fuelling it.


Yep true. Trump is favoured to win AZ because the counties that are left to tally are currently all in favour of Trump bar one if I remember correctly. Haven't checked it for about an hour. But you are right mate if Biden wins PA it's over. But it's even easier for Biden. If he wins NV it's over. This is why Trump has to flip AZ because it's worth 11 electoral votes, along with holding in the states he currently leads - GA, NC, PA and he will win Alaska but that doesn't really matter as it's only worth 3 electoral votes.


I don't know what has happened but the swing is unusual and from the stuff coming out now about fraud in MI and WI it's just all a bit too murky. Again and I must reiterate because people here are so anti-Trump that I must spell it out for them - if Biden wins fairly then fair play to him. I am pro-Trump HOWEVER above ALL ELSE I want a fair election. WHOEVER ends up winning.


Election day votes are predominantly republican. Not too sure why you are getting so worked up, it's just a difference of opinion/view. I want Trump to win and I think Biden will ruin the country. You don't. That's fine. I'm not attacking you for it, I don't know why you think it's ok for you to do so.


I'm actually surprised that someone would agree with me on the discussion about racial divide in the US. I'm actually really pleased you do agree there (that the mainstream are fuelling racial tension and hatred in America).

However it's not about any politician mate. It's about the mainstream and their narrative. They control the masses and with their misreporting of the facts & events they control power. This is probably going to open up another can of worms but look at how they report white on black crime and then look at how they report black on white crime or even black on black crime. You don't hear about it. Why? Because they want to keep black Americans mentally enslaved. To continue to think that they cannot make a success of themselves in America. Always someone against them. Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) said that he'd have blacks voting Democrat for the next 200 years. Their aim is to keep racial tension high. To keep people fighting amongst one another. If it isn't for equal pay it's for the LGBT community and if it isn't for that it's for race. Not saying these issues don't exist at all, but to the extent the media wants people to believe? No way in hell. Cannon Hinnant, a 5 year old white child, was murdered in broad daylight by an african american man. And because of this, CNN didn't even report on it. CNN! A mainstream news outlet. Nothing. Yet they fuel the narrative to defund the police because examples like an african american man resists arrest and charges at a police offer with a knife, gets shot and dies. Where's the fairness in the reporting? Why should the public have to accept this stuff?

And please don't generalise anything I've said above. Yes some events are warranted (George Floyd death disgraceful) and others have their place too but for the most part (and I mean 95%) the news is only one way. Divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book.

The quicker we start thinking for ourselves the better off we will all be. Because I sure as sh*t can't see any mainstream news outlet giving us the true story.

Lol, sorry was just taking the piss with the Ben Shapiro quote.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

What do you mean? When I posted there was 600k votes left and Trump down 80k. I posted the maths on it before but if he wins 58% of the remaining vote he wins AZ. I just read 74k votes had been counted and Trump won 62% of them so he is on pace.

What do I mean???


Check the below post:

Arizona may have more votes to make up than population left to count
Ie: the gap may be 80k and the remaining votes to count are only 70k
Depending on what the criteria is also affects how AZ is called - some agencies go off the above example, others go off historical voting preferences for the areas left to count.

Arizona is 86% done, so let's say 600k votes remain BUT the gap is only 80k.... how then can anyone actually justify calling this state as done - I realise the counties don't correlate with the actual electoral votes available so this is probably a poor argument but look at this map - onle three counties are in blue with Maricopa in light blue indicating a lead but not yet called - YET they are confident to call the state as a Democratic win despite the fact only 86% of votes are in....



What is it that I'm missing here? What's the difference between this and say Georgia or North Carolina which is 99% counted....

 

[Verdun]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/14/cannon-hinnant-killing/

 

[George]

Lol, sorry was just taking the piss with the Ben Shapiro quote.

All good.

Just feel the vitriol towards one side is unfair. Look at how many people I've had to replied to and defend my position because I have a different view. We all have no real dog in this fight. Why others want to get ultra defensive is weird.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/14/cannon-hinnant-killing/

Nice! First one I've seen. Now compare that to a white on black crime and show me how many links you can find haha

What do I mean???


Check the below post:



Arizona is 86% done, so let's say 600k votes remain BUT the gap is only 80k.... how then can anyone actually justify calling this state as done - I realise the counties don't correlate with the actual electoral votes available so this is probably a poor argument but look at this map - onle three counties are in blue with Maricopa in light blue indicating a lead but not yet called - YET they are confident to call the state as a Democratic win despite the fact only 86% of votes are in....

View attachment 1003967

What is it that I'm missing here? What's the difference between this and say Georgia or North Carolina which is 99% counted....

Again not quite sure I'm understanding it correctly. Trump looks to have insurmountable leads in both GA and NC where the votes left to count will have little to no bearing on a possible flip.

As for AZ, there's still a lot of votes left to count and they are in countys where Trump holds the lead so if that continues he will win those counties and by doing so flip AZ.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[gringo2011]

Look it up for yourself then haha

No, Joe Biden did not mysteriously gain 138,000 Michigan votes all at once

False claims, retweeted by the president, about the Michigan vote tabulation exploited a counting error that’s been resolved.

www.vox.com

 

[George]

No, Joe Biden did not mysteriously gain 138,000 Michigan votes all at once

False claims, retweeted by the president, about the Michigan vote tabulation exploited a counting error that’s been resolved.

www.vox.com

Haha what is this?

This is for Michigan not Pennsylvania.