Discussion Random Discussion

[CursingFijian]

True!
But did anyone expect any different here?
The media have prematurely called the election. So what does Trump do?
He Trumps of course.
I wonder what his base would rather him do...

The media calling of a presidential victory is always premature in every US election. When they called it prematurely in 2016 Hilary stuck with convention and conceded.

Trump has shown once again he doesn’t care about convention or tradition or norm or rules or the rule of law. He will do whatever he wants and attempt to legislate his way through the barriers to his position.

He’s not only anti-liberal he is anti-conservative too. Many conservatives have recognised that and begrudgingly voted against Trump in this election. In fact it is the swinging Republican vote in this election that has been critical to Trumps loss.

If Trump is both anti liberal and anti conservative what does he stand for?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

The media calling of a presidential victory is always premature in every US election. When they called it prematurely in 2016 Hilary stuck with convention and conceded.

Trump has shown once again he doesn’t care about convention or tradition or norm or rules or the rule of law. He will do whatever he wants and attempt to legislate his way through the barriers to his position.

He’s not only anti-liberal he is anti-conservative too. Many conservatives have recognised that and begrudgingly voted against Trump in this election. In fact it is the swinging Republican vote in this election that has been critical to Trumps loss.

If Trump is both anti liberal and anti conservative what does he stand for?

Agreed, as well as the low-information voter who turned out in force.
Will be interesting to see where he goes from here, will we see a 78 year old Trump have another crack?

 

[gringo2011]

The media calling of a presidential victory is always premature in every US election. When they called it prematurely in 2016 Hilary stuck with convention and conceded.

Trump has shown once again he doesn’t care about convention or tradition or norm or rules or the rule of law. He will do whatever he wants and attempt to legislate his way through the barriers to his position.

He’s not only anti-liberal he is anti-conservative too. Many conservatives have recognised that and begrudgingly voted against Trump in this election. In fact it is the swinging Republican vote in this election that has been critical to Trumps loss.

If Trump is both anti liberal and anti conservative what does he stand for?

Honestly he's bordering on an anarcho-capitalist. He's a fascinating person, he's got no consistency, it's like he operates in a vortex of chaos, his gravity is so strong he drags everything into his insanity spiral. You can't find your balance or bearings as he overwhelms everything and everyone around him.

He lies, he bullies, blusters, he sacks his last closest ally a week after giving them a position they are totally unsuited to. He's nepotistic, greedy, untruthful, thin skinned and narcissistic.....but you can't look away for a minute.

It's the same addiction you get to reality TV, you want to just see the next bit to witness the really nuts thing coming up next, and just when they couldn't get any more nuts something more nuts happens.

It's really hard to know what he actually stands for or what his end game is. Is it to stave off legal issues that could jail him? Is it a vanity project, a front man for evil billionaires, the new Tea-party face....who knows. I read some good articles on his true financial backers and they were like a who's who of the US corporate worlds bad guys. It still doesn't explain what he's about though.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Honestly he's bordering on an anarcho-capitalist. He's a fascinating person, he's got no consistency, it's like he operates in a vortex of chaos, his gravity is so strong he drags everything into his insanity spiral. You can't find your balance or bearings as he overwhelms everything and everyone around him.

He lies, he bullies, blusters, he sacks his last closest ally a week after giving them a position they are totally unsuited to. He's nepotistic, greedy, untruthful, thin skinned and narcissistic.....but you can't look away for a minute.

It's the same addiction you get to reality TV, you want to just see the next bit to witness the really nuts thing coming up next, and just when they couldn't get any more nuts something more nuts happens.

It's really hard to know what he actually stands for or what his end game is. Is it to stave off legal issues that could jail him? Is it a vanity project, a front man for evil billionaires, the new Tea-party face....who knows. I read some good articles on his true financial backers and they were like a who's who of the US corporate worlds bad guys. It still doesn't explain what he's about though.

Peter Thiel was a big fan/donor.
The book “Conspiracy” on his decade long quest to take down Gawker Media is amazing, he’s utterly diabolical. I kind of admire it.
Recommended read if you haven’t already!

 

[bergholt]

because the left vs right labelling that's been going on a while now, that started in the states through the media there and ended up on our shores, is used to demonise everything they don't like.

if you hate X, then you just label it as "the left" or "lefties". the people using it don't even understand what the left or right are, they're just parroting the sh*t they've heard as a catch-all sledge.

Meh, the people I interact with mostly would proudly call themselves lefties, and damn everything they don't like as conservative or right-wing. People are going to treat this stuff like football teams, nothing you can do about it.

 

[Yawkey way]

No covid and trump romps it in so let’s not get too carried away with uncle joes win.

I can’t be bothered to go into what’s playing out or the merits of the legal challenges but let’s not forget that senate seats and control of the senate is still up for grabs. How do you think the base would react if trump just waved the white flag, lower turn out is my bet so that’s one reason to challenge the legitimacy of some results.

Also while we’re demonising trump and the republicans take a look at some comments coming out of the democrats and AOC, Jesus kicking arse and taking names talk about a vendetta. But yeah uncle joe is bringing all Americans together and there are no republicans or democrats just Americans.

This partisan divisive approach has been the democrats MO from before trump was even elected so the crocodile tears now are a bit much. Gore mounted a legal challenge as he should have, let the courts decide and the rule of law prevail, tell me when the election is officially over and trump is still being an ass then I’ll condemn him.

 

[Crusty Undies]

deliberate

Because Biden encouraged voters to mail in ballots during the middle of a global pandemic..? Oooh yeah so fishy.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

because the left vs right labelling that's been going on a while now, that started in the states through the media there and ended up on our shores, is used to demonise everything they don't like.

if you hate X, then you just label it as "the left" or "lefties". the people using it don't even understand what the left or right are, they're just parroting the sh*t they've heard as a catch-all sledge.

American style politics and rhetoric are crap for Australia

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

One bad thing I already see with Biden winning is that is transition team is going to be full of Neoliberal's.

People from Big banks, Amazon, ect ect

 

[Dard Ball Get]

One bad thing I already see with Biden winning is that is transition team is going to be full of Neoliberal's.

People from Big banks, Amazon, ect ect

Yep. He’ll sell his arse to the highest bidder, not like we didn’t already know that though.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Yep. He’ll sell his arse to the highest bidder, not like we didn’t already know that though.

The climate change stuff is good but Biden could set the seeds for Trump 2.0 and this time they wont spend all day golfing and on twitter.

 

[George]

It's not a matter of "the left" or "the right", it's a matter of "the truth".

Agree 100%! And we will soon find out either way.

my god. repeat after me: "biden and the democrats are not the left"

We can argue semantics if you want? You seem so very offended. It's quite odd.

mate, trump went on live TV and asked another nation to intervene in the election. what did you think was going to come from that?

couple that with the cambridge analytica outcome and you're wondering why there was attention on that?

pro-tip if you don't want people to question if there was foreign interference, DONT GO ON LIVE TV AND ASK FOR FOREIGN INTERFERENCE

Haha the mental gymnastics here is hilarious. One of the lefts best attributes is deflecting blame. In 2016 it wasn't their fault they falsely accused the oppoisition of fraud but in 2020 it's against the rules.

Hilary conceded the day after the election as soon as the media called it.

Good on her, either party has a right to contest a result and Trump his exercising that right.

 

[George]

The media calling of a presidential victory is always premature in every US election. When they called it prematurely in 2016 Hilary stuck with convention and conceded.

Trump has shown once again he doesn’t care about convention or tradition or norm or rules or the rule of law. He will do whatever he wants and attempt to legislate his way through the barriers to his position.

He’s not only anti-liberal he is anti-conservative too. Many conservatives have recognised that and begrudgingly voted against Trump in this election. In fact it is the swinging Republican vote in this election that has been critical to Trumps loss.

If Trump is both anti liberal and anti conservative what does he stand for?

Trump stealing the election?

I thought they were going to count all legal votes and come to a decision that way.

Whoever wins the election from here has done it fairly - Trump included.

I don't get why everyone in here is so defensive. If Trump clearly has lost the election then why worry about the court process? If you are all so sure then there's nothing to worry about. If you want to play the ruining Democracy card, you need to focus that frustration on what the Democrats have done the last four years. From Russian collusion to impeachment to calls of racism because he closed the borders to China. It was all well and good when the left were character assassinating someone you don't like, but the moment it happens the other way around everyone gets on the defensive. Bit hypocritical IMO.

Take this thread for a small sample size of how the left like to operate. From people suggesting I'm not worth speaking to, to being told I have no idea, to being labelled a racist all just because I have a different opinion to them. That's not just left that's radical left behaviour. Get on the attack, deligitimize someone's opinion with character assassination all because they don't sing from the same hymn book. Fascinating stuff!

 

[flyingmagic]

Agree 100%! And we will soon find out either way.


We can argue semantics if you want? You seem so very offended. It's quite odd.


Haha the mental gymnastics here is hilarious. One of the lefts best attributes is deflecting blame. In 2016 it wasn't their fault they falsely accused the oppoisition of fraud but in 2020 it's against the rules.


Good on her, either party has a right to contest a result and Trump his exercising that right.

Would you ever consider it wrong for a candidate to undermine the voting system and delegitimize a result? Or is it always ok as it is simply exercising ones right to contest a result?

 

[CursingFijian]

Honestly he's bordering on an anarcho-capitalist. He's a fascinating person, he's got no consistency, it's like he operates in a vortex of chaos, his gravity is so strong he drags everything into his insanity spiral. You can't find your balance or bearings as he overwhelms everything and everyone around him.

He lies, he bullies, blusters, he sacks his last closest ally a week after giving them a position they are totally unsuited to. He's nepotistic, greedy, untruthful, thin skinned and narcissistic.....but you can't look away for a minute.

It's the same addiction you get to reality TV, you want to just see the next bit to witness the really nuts thing coming up next, and just when they couldn't get any more nuts something more nuts happens.

It's really hard to know what he actually stands for or what his end game is. Is it to stave off legal issues that could jail him? Is it a vanity project, a front man for evil billionaires, the new Tea-party face....who knows. I read some good articles on his true financial backers and they were like a who's who of the US corporate worlds bad guys. It still doesn't explain what he's about though.

I come from a country where we went from bicameral government to military junta in a matter of hours. The transition was that swift. I was there Gringo. In the government buildings in 1987 when a small group of armed militia backed up some military trucks and carted away the citizens who had been elected merely 4 weeks prior.

We went from a country that had two major parties that could be classified left and a right straight into those who dictated and those who obeyed. People from both political leanings were instantaneously amalgamated into a blob of population that needed to be controlled.

The junta then went on to remove senior civil servants in government who had spent lifetimes developing and honing their ability to guide government policy and replaced them with junior military officers who could be relied upon to obey orders. Populist policies were implemented that turned out country from a thriving pacific hub into a mess of failing policy and our economy and outlook crashed.

No help was forthcoming from our allies, from the people that we had shed blood for in several wars. Just some tut tutting and sanctions that deepened the quagmire. Really good, really honest, really hardworking people were just forced to endure in an environment of oppression.

It was all for shit too Gringo. A second coup happened 9 years later for the polar opposite reasons. Then another military faction attempted to overthrow them and were literally killed off.

The descent into chaos is swift. I know that first hand. And when you have people who don’t obey the rules and conventions then you would be amazed at how fragile and hollow the rights that we think are permanent and entrenched just evaporate. The only means of resistance is to dissent and when dissenters are kidnapped l, beaten, tortured and even killed then again you would be amazed by how compliant people become.

And amidst all of that you will still find large chunks of people who support and openly barrack for the oppressor.

I have no skin in the game of US politics. But I know a bad egg when I see one. Trump and his cult are dangerous. I am always genuinely surprised by how many people can’t see that.

But what would I know. I come from a shithole country. Right?

 

[George]

Would you ever consider it wrong for a candidate to undermine the voting system and delegitimize a result? Or is it always ok as it is simply exercising ones right to contest a result?

I think if there is a strong basis by which to contest then I would actually prefer it be contested than to give the result to someone who didn't deserve it. And this is where myself and others don't see eye to eye. Because I am saying I don't know what evidence they have and if they have enough of it, which I would think is a completely reasonable position to hold. Those who disagree with me on this are absolutely adamant there has not been any fraud. How they can know this is beyond me. Furthermore, if they were so sure there's no evidence of fraud - this would already have been thrown out. They wouldn't have even looked at it. If a few blokes on BigFooty can see clearly there's no fraud, surely the supreme court would know.

What is more important than a candidate undermining the election process is a candidate winning an election due to fraud.

Said many times if the court comes to the conclusion that Trump and co don't have a leg to stand on and this was all a big ruse, then I will be right there with the rest of you guys in calling him out for it and how ridiculous it was. But I don't know the ruling the court will make until they've made it so until then I am reserving judgement. You can't really say he is undermining anything until after the fact. If he weren't to contest it, Biden won, and then we find out there was fraud, I think that would look even worse.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Would you ever consider it wrong for a candidate to undermine the voting system and delegitimize a result? Or is it always ok as it is simply exercising ones right to contest a result?

There is yet to be a result, that’s the point

 

[George]

 

[Crusty Undies]

Agree 100%! And we will soon find out either way.


We can argue semantics if you want? You seem so very offended. It's quite odd.


Haha the mental gymnastics here is hilarious. One of the lefts best attributes is deflecting blame. In 2016 it wasn't their fault they falsely accused the oppoisition of fraud but in 2020 it's against the rules.


Good on her, either party has a right to contest a result and Trump his exercising that right.

Can we stop using generic labels like "the left" though? It just deals in generalisations and everyone has a different idea of what "the left" is too them. Also it's just a divisive and unconstructive idea.

 

[George]

Can we stop using generic labels like "the left" though? It just deals in generalisations and everyone has a different idea of what "the left" is too them. Also it's just a divisive and unconstructive idea.

No worries

 

[Ceanag]

Ah Kayleigh ....She's hard not to love ...isn't she

 

[George]

Ah Kayleigh ....She's hard not to love ...isn't she

Only a Republican could be that attractive.

I'm joking I'm joking, geez...

 

[flyingmagic]

I think if there is a strong basis by which to contest then I would actually prefer it be contested than to give the result to someone who didn't deserve it. And this is where myself and others don't see eye to eye. Because I am saying I don't know what evidence they have and if they have enough of it, which I would think is a completely reasonable position to hold. Those who disagree with me on this are absolutely adamant there has not been any fraud. How they can know this is beyond me. Furthermore, if they were so sure there's no evidence of fraud - this would already have been thrown out. They wouldn't have even looked at it. If a few blokes on BigFooty can see clearly there's no fraud, surely the supreme court would know.

What is more important than a candidate undermining the election process is a candidate winning an election due to fraud.

Said many times if the court comes to the conclusion that Trump and co don't have a leg to stand on and this was all a big ruse, then I will be right there with the rest of you guys in calling him out for it and how ridiculous it was. But I don't know the ruling the court will make until they've made it so until then I am reserving judgement. You can't really say he is undermining anything until after the fact. If he weren't to contest it, Biden won, and then we find out there was fraud, I think that would look even worse.

How will you be able to tell that Trump and co don't have a leg to stand on and this was all a big ruse? Is it simply if none of the court cases make it anywhere or he loses in the supreme court?

What if Trump says the courts have gotten it all wrong and are rigged?

 

[George]

How will you be able to tell that Trump and co don't have a leg to stand on and this was all a big ruse? Is it simply if none of the court cases make it anywhere or he loses in the supreme court?

What if Trump says the courts have gotten it all wrong and are rigged?

Well I'll be able to tell because Biden will be sitting in the White House haha.

If Trump says the courts have it wrong/rigged I will disagree. I get that either party can be fraudulent but I have trust/faith in the legal process.

Again it's the failure from others to really understand my position. Because I support Trump doesn't mean I think he is correct all the time. And just because you may support Biden doesn't mean you should agree with him all the time either. It's a stupid way to think.

Trump is now exercising his right to contest a result, let him do that and let the courts determine what the outcome is. I've never said that I categorically know there is or isn't election fraud, so I can't say I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong if Biden wins, but what I will do is accept it and be thankful that in the end it was won fairly.

 

[flyingmagic]

Well I'll be able to tell because Biden will be sitting in the White House haha.

If Trump says the courts have it wrong/rigged I will disagree. I get that either party can be fraudulent but I have trust/faith in the legal process.

Again it's the failure from others to really understand my position. Because I support Trump doesn't mean I think he is correct all the time. And just because you may support Biden doesn't mean you should agree with him all the time either. It's a stupid way to think.

Trump is now exercising his right to contest a result, let him do that and let the courts determine what the outcome is. I've never said that I categorically know there is or isn't election fraud, so I can't say I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong if Biden wins, but what I will do is accept it and be thankful that in the end it was won fairly.

Understandable. Sorry they weren't meant to be gotcha questions.

I just worry that not everyone will hold to your objective measure especially when there are claims that everything is rigged. Eg. if trump loses the election then the election is rigged. If trump loses court cases then the court cases are rigged etc. And eventually you have a situation in which he never concedes, continues to declare himself the winner forever, and a large portion of people in a democratic country believe him.