Discussion Random Discussion

[joop]

It'd be interesting to know if GWS have a different player support structure considering their demographic and age profile. I wonder whether they anticipated situations like this. Think they may want to take a better look at this. The manager may or may not have tried to talk McCarthy into the long deal but as the rule goes they are always trying to set their clients futures up as best they can - do they have the skills to assess their mental state, not sure.

IMO this situation was always going to happen when you over stock a manufactured club up with the country's best youth. AFL should have foreseen this and tried harder to implement a better structure or situation in the new franchises where they had more senior players. Giving them the access to so much youth was always going to lead to the stockpiling and trade strategies that GWS have now implement. They will always be looking after their own interests and so they should but surely the AFL could have done something a little more focused on the welfare of the players here rather than just looking after their own interests.

1 player out of 100 or so that have been through that club so far is a pretty small %.
From reports from a lot of other players it's great up there, not sure what the AFL should do.

 

[Determinant]

It'd be interesting to know if GWS have a different player support structure considering their demographic and age profile. I wonder whether they anticipated situations like this. Think they may want to take a better look at this. The manager may or may not have tried to talk McCarthy into the long deal but as the rule goes they are always trying to set their clients futures up as best they can - do they have the skills to assess their mental state, not sure.

IMO this situation was always going to happen when you over stock a manufactured club up with the country's best youth. AFL should have foreseen this and tried harder to implement a better structure or situation in the new franchises where they had more senior players. Giving them the access to so much youth was always going to lead to the stockpiling and trade strategies that GWS have now implement. They will always be looking after their own interests and so they should but surely the AFL could have done something a little more focused on the welfare of the players here rather than just looking after their own interests.

Up until a few weeks before this came to a head gws had arguably the best player support group in the league with Mel and Craig Lambert backed by a team of specialists. So good that Brisbane "poached" them back home to fix their leaky dyke issues, so the club and the AFL took this very seriously.

Dylan Addison has taken the role of welfare manager over, I don't know a lot about his credentials, he was always very quiet around the club from a fan perspective, but I doubt they would be wanting to drop the ball on the role now so suspect he is qualified.

The reality is, the club has retained a vast amount of young talent, more than expected, and has released many to good homes where it was in the best interests of both, Josh coming to the saints a classic example of a player being traded for a fraction of his worth to ensure he was where he wanted to be.
The parents of the kids appreciate the club's welfare focus, and have openly praised them for it.

Unfortunately there are always "outliers" and this is one, the club acted correctly in it's best interests in the trade period, this outcome would been one of the many considered and they are now openly acting in the interests of the player.

Kind of hard to find real fault to be honest, unless you wear purple ad sing a shit club song..

 

[Joffaboy]

Well it's the AFL'S fault for making a plastic team up, gouging the draft and making young kids leave home to go to a totally non football area full of rednecks and Bogan.

Houso's is a documentary and these kids have been put there in a fake team.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

O'Keefe, Wayne Campbell and Brown from WCE suggests that isn't true. In hindsight you do the deal. Without hindsight no one should blackmail a club one year into a three year contract.

A deeper inspection of those examples would probably suggest they were very different from Cam McCarthy's situation.
O'Keefe, for example, didn't have another committed Vic based club put up a decent offer for him - the Hawks balked at offering a first round pick.

 

[plugger66]

A deeper inspection of those examples would probably suggest they were very different from Cam McCarthy's situation.
O'Keefe, for example, didn't have another committed Vic based club put up a decent offer for him - the Hawks balked at offering a first round pick.

So you are saying the players have all the power and contracts should mean nothing at all? Why bother having them then? No one forces a player to sign a contract so at least commit to 66% of the contract and not 33%. Brown had an offer from us and didn't leave and now has an extended contract. I'm usually for the players but in this case it seems hindsight to suggest they should have just let him go. Let him go and then Whitfield wants to go then Kelly and so on. When does it stop? When you show you are a strong club and say stuff you.

 

[RoundCubic]

Up until a few weeks before this came to a head gws had arguably the best player support group in the league with Mel and Craig Lambert backed by a team of specialists. So good that Brisbane "poached" them back home to fix their leaky dyke issues, so the club and the AFL took this very seriously.

Dylan Addison has taken the role of welfare manager over, I don't know a lot about his credentials, he was always very quiet around the club from a fan perspective, but I doubt they would be wanting to drop the ball on the role now so suspect he is qualified.

The reality is, the club has retained a vast amount of young talent, more than expected, and has released many to good homes where it was in the best interests of both, Josh coming to the saints a classic example of a player being traded for a fraction of his worth to ensure he was where he wanted to be.
The parents of the kids appreciate the club's welfare focus, and have openly praised them for it.

Unfortunately there are always "outliers" and this is one, the club acted correctly in it's best interests in the trade period, this outcome would been one of the many considered and they are now openly acting in the interests of the player.

Kind of hard to find real fault to be honest, unless you wear purple ad sing a shit club song..

I wondered about if the Lambert move contributed as it seems they had been really successful in keeping the group happy and together.
Brisbane were desperate to get them up to stop the loss of kids but not choking out plays may be a start.
I do think if you get an 18 year old to sign a long contract extension then you shouldn't be surprised if a year and half later he's changed his mind.
I don't know if Freo made no serious offer for Cam but the public message from GWS we won't agree to any trade looks ugly now.
If GWS had said Freo needs to come to the table with a serious offer it would of been better.
WA players often get taken later then otherwise because they come up as a risk of the go home factor.
We lost Cripps for pretty much nothing and he was our first pick in 2010.
I just hope the kid is ok i wasn't really that worried til the weight loss stuff came up as that can be dangerous but hopefully he'll get it under control

 

[Jade Buddha]

Up until a few weeks before this came to a head gws had arguably the best player support group in the league with Mel and Craig Lambert backed by a team of specialists. So good that Brisbane "poached" them back home to fix their leaky dyke issues, so the club and the AFL took this very seriously.

Dylan Addison has taken the role of welfare manager over, I don't know a lot about his credentials, he was always very quiet around the club from a fan perspective, but I doubt they would be wanting to drop the ball on the role now so suspect he is qualified.

The reality is, the club has retained a vast amount of young talent, more than expected, and has released many to good homes where it was in the best interests of both, Josh coming to the saints a classic example of a player being traded for a fraction of his worth to ensure he was where he wanted to be.
The parents of the kids appreciate the club's welfare focus, and have openly praised them for it.

Unfortunately there are always "outliers" and this is one, the club acted correctly in it's best interests in the trade period, this outcome would been one of the many considered and they are now openly acting in the interests of the player.

Kind of hard to find real fault to be honest, unless you wear purple ad sing a shit club song..

Good to know GWS have a good support system in place for the young players but my criticism is really centred on how the AFL set the new franchises up to start with. The model was based on over the top compensation for GWS of youth numbers to create a buffer for future drafts and give them more leverage in the trade system hoping this would give them sustained success - this has yet to bear any fruit. They didn't encourage them to engage with the more experienced players in the system which would have given them IMO earlier success. As I've said before I think this is based on the "youth over experience" belief very much fostered in the AFL system itself. The wanders have succeeded because in soccer trading for players is far more accepted than in the AFL. We are far less down that track whether you believe that is better or worse.

 

[plugger66]

Good to know GWS have a good support system in place for the young players but my criticism is really centred on how the AFL set the new franchises up to start with. The model was based on over the top compensation for GWS of youth numbers to create a buffer for future drafts and give them more leverage in the trade system hoping this would give them sustained success - this has yet to bear any fruit. They didn't encourage them to engage with the more experienced players in the system which would have given them IMO earlier success. As I've said before I think this is based on the "youth over experience" belief very much fostered in the AFL system itself. The wanders have succeeded because in soccer trading for players is far more accepted than in the AFL. We are far less down that track whether you believe that is better or worse.

Who cares how soccer have done it. They don't have a draft for a start. You are know getting into area's that have nothing to do with how McCarthy has struggled. It seems you want to blame the AFL because you aren't happy how it was set up. There is plenty of experienced players now at GWS so that has nothing to do with what actually happened.

I would love to know how you think the club should have been set up by the AFL and how that would stop a one off issue.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Wow

Who cares how soccer have done it. They don't have a draft for a start. You are know getting into area's that have nothing to do with how McCarthy has struggled. It seems you want to blame the AFL because you aren't happy how it was set up. There is plenty of experienced players now at GWS so that has nothing to do with what actually happened.

I would love to know how you think the club should have been set up by the AFL and how that would stop a one off issue.

So you're not allowed to give an example of another sport setting up a franchise? I Like your debating style - "who cares", yep great retort.

I'm talking about the bigger picture not just McCarthy. The AFL could have ensured that GWS were encouraged to bring in players from other clubs and not just truck loads of young players yet to enter the system - how many draft concessions were they given? Oh but that's right I'm not entitled to an opinion so go ahead continue on with the bullying style that got you kicked out of SS.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Wow


So you're not allowed to give an example of another sport setting up a franchise? I Like your debating style - "who cares", yep great retort.

I'm talking about the bigger picture not just McCarthy. The AFL could have ensured that GWS were encouraged to bring in players from other clubs and not just truck loads of young players yet to enter the system - how many draft concessions were they given? Oh but that's right I'm not entitled to an opinion so go ahead continue on with the bullying style that got you kicked out of SS.

They were encouraged to get players from other clubs. The whole idea of the 4 pre-draft picks and numerous first rounders was for them to trade for players. But sos had other ideas and just stockpiled even more picks.

 

[Joffaboy]

They were encouraged to get players from other clubs. The whole idea of the 4 pre-draft picks and numerous first rounders was for them to trade for players. But sos had other ideas and just stockpiled even more picks.

Correct

 

[VDS66]

I realise we've moved on from the Invasion Day discussion, but I thought this piece from Carmen Lawrence gives a deep understanding of the situation facing Indigenous Australians...

From an article in The Guardian:

Airbrushing the past also means that we are rendered incapable of properly devising policies that are likely to succeed in reducing Aboriginal disadvantage in particular.

Imposed solutions, such as the “intervention” and “welfare cards”, are unlikely to be real solutions at all. In fact, they simply reinforce the sense of powerlessness that is already so pervasive among those subject to such policies.

This, after all, is not the first time they’ve been subjected to the will of others with painful consequences. Decisions about their lives have been taken from their hands many times before: the appropriation of land, the removal of children, the forced relocation of families and communities, the attacks on language and culture.

It is well understood in psychology that when people repeatedly experience unpleasant events over which they have no control, they will not only experience trauma, but will come to act as if they believe that it is not possible to exercise control over any situation – indeed, that whatever they do is largely futile.

Attempts to remedy the social disadvantage of Aboriginal people depend, fundamentally, on understanding the effects of past trauma and its potentially cumulative effects.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Unfortunately there are always "outliers" and this is one, the club acted correctly in it's best interests in the trade period, this outcome would been one of the many considered and they are now openly acting in the interests of the player.

Kind of hard to find real fault to be honest, unless you wear purple ad sing a shit club song..

Why couldn't you just give him the old heave ho?! That'd be the way to go. Now he's hit you down below.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What a great women's final. A deserving winner ànd a very gracious loser. A couple of young male Aussie tennis players could learn a thing or two from Serena.

 

[MacMum]

Wasn't interested at all, but had a call from my mother saying what a great game the girls were putting on....

So glad I watched. Wow what a match!!.....and Serena was so gracious and friendly.

...and what a delight Angie Kerber is. A top effort by her.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

...and what a delight Angie Kerber is. A top effort by her.

Apparently shes related to Fraser Gehrig & Nick Riewoldt and is a mad Saints fan*



* Thats not true. But us Saints fans will jump on any success

 

[CHBench]

Aussie Ange.

Serena is such a champion though, she was genuinely rapt for her opponent.
It's a shame how mud sticks, that USO outburst 7 years ago was an anomaly. No one within the WTA/ATP circuit has a bad word to say of her.

Hopefully people will come around to appreciate her like they did Lleyton (remember when he was a petulant little shit nobody liked?).

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Aussie Ange.

Serena is such a champion though, she was genuinely rapt for her opponent.
It's a shame how mud sticks, that USO outburst 7 years ago was an anomaly. No one within the WTA/ATP circuit has a bad word to say of her.

Hopefully people will come around to appreciate her like they did Lleyton (remember when he was a petulant little shit nobody liked?).

Yeah true what youve said there CHBench. Ive disliked her ever since that outburst when she said something akin to " ill shove this F-ing ball down your F-ing throat" to a female lineswoman.
Still got a few yrs of being nice before ill forgive her for that one.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yeah true what youve said there CHBench. Ive disliked her ever since that outburst when she said something akin to " ill shove this F-ing ball down your F-ing throat" to a female lineswoman.
Still got a few yrs of being nice before ill forgive her for that one.

Agree, that wasn't a great moment. But I guess if you put into perspective how many hundreds of matches she has played and how few times she's actually lost it, she is still on the positive side of the ledger by far.
What I like is that, like Lleyton, she plays with her heart on her sleeve and is passionate and full of emotion. It's why I like Djokovic too. As brilliant as Federer has been I don't see much of a personality out on court.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Agree, that wasn't a great moment. But I guess if you put into perspective how many hundreds of matches she has played and how few times she's actually lost it, she is still on the positive side of the ledger by far.
What I like is that, like Lleyton, she plays with her heart on her sleeve and is passionate and full of emotion. It's why I like Djokovic too. As brilliant as Federer has been I don't see much of a personality out on court.

Yeah mate nothing wrong with you admiring her cos shes obviously a great athlete.
TBH I dont think shes gonna lose too much sleep if she finds out im not a fan

 

[gringo2011]

Up until a few weeks before this came to a head gws had arguably the best player support group in the league with Mel and Craig Lambert backed by a team of specialists. So good that Brisbane "poached" them back home to fix their leaky dyke issues, so the club and the AFL took this very seriously.

Dylan Addison has taken the role of welfare manager over, I don't know a lot about his credentials, he was always very quiet around the club from a fan perspective, but I doubt they would be wanting to drop the ball on the role now so suspect he is qualified.

The reality is, the club has retained a vast amount of young talent, more than expected, and has released many to good homes where it was in the best interests of both, Josh coming to the saints a classic example of a player being traded for a fraction of his worth to ensure he was where he wanted to be.
The parents of the kids appreciate the club's welfare focus, and have openly praised them for it.

Unfortunately there are always "outliers" and this is one, the club acted correctly in it's best interests in the trade period, this outcome would been one of the many considered and they are now openly acting in the interests of the player.

Kind of hard to find real fault to be honest, unless you wear purple ad sing a shit club song..

I know a GWS players sister and despite wanting to stir you up he has nothing but good things to say about the club. He seems firmly entrenched there despite lots of people hassling him to move back.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I know a GWS players sister and despite wanting to stir you up he has nothing but good things to say about the club. He seems firmly entrenched there despite lots of people hassling him to move back.

I was talking to Devon Smiths mum once and i asked her about how he likes it there . She said he was really enjoying it and was just happy to be drafted.

 

[Determinant]

I was talking to Devon Smiths mum once and i asked her about how he likes it there . She said he was really enjoying it and was just happy to be drafted.

Devon's a lovely young man, a credit to his parents, fairly decent footballer too

 

[plugger66]

Wow


So you're not allowed to give an example of another sport setting up a franchise? I Like your debating style - "who cares", yep great retort.

I'm talking about the bigger picture not just McCarthy. The AFL could have ensured that GWS were encouraged to bring in players from other clubs and not just truck loads of young players yet to enter the system - how many draft concessions were they given? Oh but that's right I'm not entitled to an opinion so go ahead continue on with the bullying style that got you kicked out of SS.

You can use another example but it isn't relevant for the reasons I mentioned. If you are going to use an example it has to be at least similar to the AFL set up. And the AFL could have done what you suggested and I think they did but GWS went down another path. That path has not caused this with McCarthy. That all happened 5 years ago. They now have many players with experience. The McCarthy issue wasn't caused by lack of experience in the side or at board level. It seems you have a different agenda and you are trying to use the McCarthy incident to push it. Nothing wrong with pushing it but McCarthy isn't relevant to it. The rest of your post is personal and not true.

 

[joop]

Wow


So you're not allowed to give an example of another sport setting up a franchise? I Like your debating style - "who cares", yep great retort.

I'm talking about the bigger picture not just McCarthy. The AFL could have ensured that GWS were encouraged to bring in players from other clubs and not just truck loads of young players yet to enter the system - how many draft concessions were they given? Oh but that's right I'm not entitled to an opinion so go ahead continue on with the bullying style that got you kicked out of SS.

Are you joking? You gave your opinion & the other poster gave his...how is that bullying?
And I tend to agree, what relevance does Wsw have? It's a completely different environment. And GWS have bought in older experienced players, every single year.