Discussion Random Discussion

[CALL ME SNAKE]

mental illness is not an excuse. this man has to be dealt with. he's a child murderer

I hope everyone here is safe and well

Yeah. Ive got a 1yr old child and the thought of someone deliberately running down a mother pushing a pram has got my stomach in knots, i feel sick .
Give your family a hug when you get home tonight people.

 

[Nutsngum]

We are losing the battle on ICE though, things are out of control on that front. It's naive IMO to think otherwise. Oh and I have little faith in stats like that.....lets talk about APEX shall we?

You already have the wrong mindset mate. There is no "battle" against drugs as the people effected are the people we know. You cannot fight people and expect to improve them.

Im not sure how to argue you having little faith in stats. The information is right there.

 

[Ekomaira]

how is it this germ gets medical attention. **** that. put him in a room by himself and let him feel every bit of it

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

You already have the wrong mindset mate. There is no "battle" against drugs as the people effected are the people we know. You cannot fight people and expect to improve them.

Im not sure how to argue you having little faith in stats. The information is right there.

You're going literal - the battle against ICE means offering adequate services/support to try to get people off this awful drug. It is decimating country and rural Victoria, (according to ABC program in the ICE problem). AND focusing police on this issue, on the violence and on APEX.

Spend a Friday night or Saturday night on Chapel St or in the CBD with paramedics and tell me that the drunken violence has gotten better? How many more attacks against doctors/nurses are there because of ICE? (I regularly have to go to hospital for an infusion and speaking to the nurses from different hospitals they all confirm what I just said and I would trust them rather than any stats the govt releases) It must be because the stats say so.....they can change the parameters and exclude/include previous instances to manipulate. Seen it done before. Analogy - how memberships for football clubs are counted - that has changed over the year with 3 game memberships now being counted.

Look we are not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disagree.

I say it is getting more violent and you are saying it isnt

 

[crasha301]

Im not sure how to argue you having little faith in stats. The information is right there.

This is the problem! We shouldn't be arguing about who's way is right and who's is wrong! We should be discussing how to fix the issues at hand. What ever we have been doing obviously isn't working.

 

[Keg on legs]

Just heartbreaking.

A child FFS

 

[Plumber66]

You're going literal - the battle against ICE means offering adequate services/support to try to get people off this awful drug. It is decimating country and rural Victoria, (according to ABC program in the ICE problem). AND focusing police on this issue, on the violence and on APEX.

Spend a Friday night or Saturday night on Chapel St or in the CBD with paramedics and tell me that the drunken violence has gotten better? How many more attacks against doctors/nurses are there because of ICE? (I regularly have to go to hospital for an infusion and speaking to the nurses from different hospitals they all confirm what I just said and I would trust them rather than any stats the govt releases) It must be because the stats say so.....they can change the parameters and exclude/include previous instances to manipulate. Seen it done before. Analogy - how memberships for football clubs are counted - that has changed over the year with 3 game memberships now being counted.

Look we are not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disagree.

I say it is getting more violent and you are saying it isnt

Society is going to shit full stop but the nimby's don't care unless it impacts on their lifestyle, and then they start blaming the government for everything.

 

[Nutsngum]

You're going literal - the battle against ICE means offering adequate services/support to try to get people off this awful drug. It is decimating country and rural Victoria, (according to ABC program in the ICE problem). AND focusing police on this issue, on the violence and on APEX.

Spend a Friday night or Saturday night on Chapel St or in the CBD with paramedics and tell me that the drunken violence has gotten better? How many more attacks against doctors/nurses are there because of ICE? (I regularly have to go to hospital for an infusion and speaking to the nurses from different hospitals they all confirm what I just said and I would trust them rather than any stats the govt releases) It must be because the stats say so.....they can change the parameters and exclude/include previous instances to manipulate. Seen it done before. Analogy - how memberships for football clubs are counted - that has changed over the year with 3 game memberships now being counted.

Look we are not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disagree.

I say it is getting more violent and you are saying it isnt

Dude, thats literally the definition of conformational bias. Lots of nurses also believe full moons make people crazier but thats not true either. Statistics gathered from multiple sources over a period of time IS the only accurate way to determine facts otherwise its all anecdotal which is basically worthless.

If we are just going by anecdotal evidence then things have considerably gotten better considering my dad used to tell stories about how much worst things were back in the 70s and 80s. See how that actually doesnt mean anything substantial?

Also I am pretty sure that memberships are based on dollar amounts above 50, not how many games there are attached.

 

[Plumber66]

This is the problem! We shouldn't be arguing about who's way is right and who's is wrong! We should be discussing how to fix the issues at hand. What ever we have been doing obviously isn't working.

In that case, start talking about society's priorities and the obsession on individualism over a cohesive, inclusive existence.

 

[JG22]

It is just terrible what is happening in my hometown.

Posting here what I put on Facebook. I dont normally post stuff like this but enough is enough:

'When will Victorian Police and the Labour Government realise that they are losing the battle on crime? It is disgusting what is going on in Melbourne currently with all the violence. When will the government own up that they have got it terribly wrong? I think they are more interested in pinging drivers for being 5 km over the speed limit rather than deploying police on more serious issues like the proliferation of ICE in our community. No wonder the Donald Trumps of this world got into power. Our country has been and is being run by absolute idiots for the last 25 years.'

Not sure how you can blame the government for that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Except that violent crimes have been on a downward trend for the last decade despite population growth?
http://aic.gov.au/publications/current series/facts/1-20/2013/1_recorded.html

Yes over the last couple of months there has been a decent spike in it all but its disingenuous to claim that as "how terrible its all become" when the stats just dont how that at all really.

I believe your stats except........
THEY DON'T INCLUDE THE LAST 6 YEARS OF QUEENSLAND VICTORIA AND TASSIE>.

So how do you conclude downward trend for the last decade?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not sure how you can blame the government for that.

For starters "known to police" doesn't mean he was mates with them.
What good is it if they police KNOW all the violent criminals if we do nothing to contain them?

 

[StFly]

So, that death a little bit ago in Sunbury where a woman mowed down her BF in a roman catholic primary school car park not once, but reversed over him a few times to ensure he was good and smushed?

Yeah, the pair were well known to partake of the party drugs, she was well known to be utterly batshit when on the take, as in hallucinations leading to property damage and assault batshit. Immediately claimed mental illness afterwards to try and ease the pain that she is, unfortunately for her and those who actually know her as a person, involved in the shit that is dependence on illicit drugs.

Todays efforts, well, wasn't the bloke already being looked at for stabbing his brother a couple times and already on the run after doing doughies in the CBD as well for added "lookitmoi"? Not exactly screaming mental illness there, giant knob maybe but not someone who actively needs help / institutional intervention.

Also, Melbourne; good for a visit, you could not pay me to live there. Melbourne sprawl goes north; hello Lancefield.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Not sure how you can blame the government for that.[/QUOTE

Blame the Govt for not focusing on issues that have been there for a couple of years now - mainly the problem of ICE. It's a complex issue. In rural Victoria, there's a lack of jobs, cycle of poverty, especially in country towns. Policing only does so much. Close one lab and another springs up. Also the cuts in health spending, especially mental health. Making ads where you wag your finger isn't going to do anything.

Also the rise in violence recently as per previous posts. APEX is a very recent thing I'll give you that but the level of violence in Melbourne is pretty bad for a while now yet the Govt has let this slide. Tell us again Daniel Andrews how many level crossings you're fixing? Look this isn't a labor thing - it's a Govt thing as they have both been as bad as each other.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There was a comedian who was on ice, hit a

You're going literal - the battle against ICE means offering adequate services/support to try to get people off this awful drug. It is decimating country and rural Victoria, (according to ABC program in the ICE problem). AND focusing police on this issue, on the violence and on APEX.

Spend a Friday night or Saturday night on Chapel St or in the CBD with paramedics and tell me that the drunken violence has gotten better? How many more attacks against doctors/nurses are there because of ICE? (I regularly have to go to hospital for an infusion and speaking to the nurses from different hospitals they all confirm what I just said and I would trust them rather than any stats the govt releases) It must be because the stats say so.....they can change the parameters and exclude/include previous instances to manipulate. Seen it done before. Analogy - how memberships for football clubs are counted - that has changed over the year with 3 game memberships now being counted.

Look we are not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disagree.

I say it is getting more violent and you are saying it isnt

We have the Green's who think its society's responsibility to make sure they get the drugs they think they are getting.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/g...asy-blamed-for-overdoses-20170116-gts3g1.html

Newsflash :: If it didn't come from a chemist it could be anything at all.

 

[The Jack Pack]

**** me, just caught up with everything that's happened today after work... the scenes are devastating.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Just been reported that this guy is domestic violence central, has mental health and drug related issues. He kidnapped his ex/partner/whatever against her will.

 

[ERMAHGERD]

Just saw Nathan Brown at the Aus Open. Hes in rippng shape, a lot taller ane thinner than what I expected.

 

[joop]

It is just terrible what is happening in my hometown.

Posting here what I put on Facebook. I dont normally post stuff like this but enough is enough:

'When will Victorian Police and the Labour Government realise that they are losing the battle on crime? It is disgusting what is going on in Melbourne currently with all the violence. When will the government own up that they have got it terribly wrong? I think they are more interested in pinging drivers for being 5 km over the speed limit rather than deploying police on more serious issues like the proliferation of ICE in our community. No wonder the Donald Trumps of this world got into power. Our country has been and is being run by absolute idiots for the last 25 years.'

How did you make the connection of Donald Trump to Victoria Police?
How are they losing the battle against crime?
What exactly have the government got wrong? Is it just the labor* government or the last 25 years where liberal have held power for 12 of those years?
Every city has crime, maybe some credit should go to the police and government on how they deal & prevent crimes.
So much of that doesn't get reported, because the media use the classic 'fear' approach so that despite a huge decrease in a number of different crimes, you'll hear about the Apex gang carjacking someone which is all of a sudden an 'epidemic'.
I have family members and friends in the Police force, and if you heard the shit they have to deal with maybe you'd give them some respect. But yeh, it's always the cops fault, until something bad happens to you or your family and you call 000.

 

[joop]

Except that violent crimes have been on a downward trend for the last decade despite population growth?
http://aic.gov.au/publications/current series/facts/1-20/2013/1_recorded.html

Yes over the last couple of months there has been a decent spike in it all but its disingenuous to claim that as "how terrible its all become" when the stats just dont how that at all really.

Nail. Head.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

How did you make the connection of Donald Trump to Victoria Police?
How are they losing the battle against crime?
What exactly have the government got wrong? Is it just the labor* government or the last 25 years where liberal have held power for 12 of those years?
Every city has crime, maybe some credit should go to the police and government on how they deal & prevent crimes.
So much of that doesn't get reported, because the media use the classic 'fear' approach so that despite a huge decrease in a number of different crimes, you'll hear about the Apex gang carjacking someone which is all of a sudden an 'epidemic'.
I have family members and friends in the Police force, and if you heard the shit they have to deal with maybe you'd give them some respect. But yeh, it's always the cops fault, until something bad happens to you or your family and you call 000.

1. It has been said by people far more intelligent than I that one reason Trump got in was due to the apathy of the people to current politicians who were more interested in themselves and their expenses rather than serving the community. Do you think the last 15 years of politics has been inspiring? It has been the opposite I would suggest
2. The police do not have the powers they need. They put these people away only to have them out on bail the same day. This issue shines a light on the poor bail/parole laws that allow these mongrels to be released when they shouldn't be. The rights of some deranged individuals should not be put ahead of the rights of the community as a whole
3. It is not just confined to current labor govt but tell us Dan how many level crossings have you replaced? They are focusing on the wrong issues - focus on the lack of mental health care and services in general. Focus on the scourge that is ICE. Focus particularly in rural Victoria where ICE is rife and there is not the infrastructure to cope with it
4. I think they are linked. I think the amount of violent crime around the city and against police/ambos/doctors/nurses which has increased is linked to ICE.
5. You've got it wrong JOOP, so friggin wrong - it is the not the police's fault. In fact it is the opposite. You have totally misread what I've said. It is the Police command/Govt fault - not the police. I also know a number of cops and they are more worried about having a complaint made against them by a deranged scum that might have had their rights impeded because they had to be tackled to the ground and arrested than being able to police. The police need more help and more powers and be able to do their job and stop the bad guys.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Nail. Head.

Please provide evidence that violent crime in victoria is in a downward trend.
Please include data that includes victorian statistics more recent than 2010.

 

[StCicatriz]

Just been reported that this guy is domestic violence central, has mental health and drug related issues. He kidnapped his ex/partner/whatever against her will.

i've been listening to this podcast:

it covers a bunch of australian murder cases... its amazing how many times someone can re-offend and murder people without being caught/charged/imprisoned

the family court murders are a good one if you wanna have a listen. unbelievable the bloke was allowed to kill that many judges without being sent inside

 

[SaintsSeptember]

https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statistics/latest-crime-data/recorded-offences-1
https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statistics/latest-crime-data/victim-reports-1

I'm interested in finding a way to get a downward trend out of this.

( Nail / Head my arse )

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Just been reported that this guy is domestic violence central, has mental health and drug related issues. He kidnapped his ex/partner/whatever against her will.

I know there are people with genuine mental issues who obviously need help.
But i get a bit pissed when the "he suffered from mental illness " line gets dragged up by the media in cases where the person only has the mental illness in the first place cos theyve fried their brain with drugs for the last 6 yrs.
If you choose to have a life of 'abusing' hard drugs then you can stick the " but im mentally unwell" sympathy vote up your arse as far as im concerned.