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[gringo2011]

For some perspective the Scramble for Africa starts in 1880's, the American colonial empire (Hawaii, Philippines, Guam, Cuba, Virgin Islands, Porto Rico, etc) was part of what was called the late phase or neocolonialism period.

The Filipino-American War was the United States invasion and conquest of the Philippines against an constitutionalist republic that had taken advantage of the Spanish American war to throw off the yolk of oppression. It involved over 100,000 American personnel and 30-40k deployed troops. Numerous atrocities 250,000 to 3 million civilian deaths and by WW1 around 250,000 Americans colonialists in the Philippines.

Campaigning by public figures like Mark Twain lead to congress setting a frame work to independence for the Philippines (but many colonial states had different levels of "independence") but also start an anti-colonial movement in America that influenced Wilson and Roosevelt to end colonialism.

The Monroe doctrine was a little like Russia with Ukraine today you can be independent as far as you do what we want and allow our businesses to export your wealth to our benefit and our citizens are above your laws.

The wealth inequality is partly the result of the erosion of taxation of wealth accumulation from the depression era on capital gains, inheritance etc at a time when new industries and economic growth in developing countries have delivered massive returns to individuals with the capital to invest in them and eroded the blue collar middle class in developed countries.

I read the Kingsolver book Poisonwood Bible a while back and that was on post Belgian Congo and the US meddling in international politics for financial gain, Nicaragua, Iran etc all had US involvement in their politics that were really ways to pave the way for US private companies to access to their markets or direct access to the countries resources.

 

[Yawkey way]

For some perspective the Scramble for Africa starts in 1880's, the American colonial empire (Hawaii, Philippines, Guam, Cuba, Virgin Islands, Porto Rico, etc) was part of what was called the late phase or neocolonialism period.

The Filipino-American War was the United States invasion and conquest of the Philippines against an constitutionalist republic that had taken advantage of the Spanish American war to throw off the yolk of oppression. It involved over 100,000 American personnel and 30-40k deployed troops. Numerous atrocities 250,000 to 3 million civilian deaths and by WW1 around 250,000 Americans colonialists in the Philippines.

Campaigning by public figures like Mark Twain lead to congress setting a frame work to independence for the Philippines (but many colonial states had different levels of "independence") but also start an anti-colonial movement in America that influenced Wilson and Roosevelt to end colonialism.

The Monroe doctrine was a little like Russia with Ukraine today you can be independent as far as you do what we want and allow our businesses to export your wealth to our benefit and our citizens are above your laws.

The wealth inequality is partly the result of the erosion of taxation of wealth accumulation from the depression era on capital gains, inheritance etc at a time when new industries and economic growth in developing countries have delivered massive returns to individuals with the capital to invest in them and eroded the blue collar middle class in developed countries.

Absolutely fascinating I love reading about history, I can remember reading about the carve up of the middle east and the old League of Nations.

I guess it's always pretty much the same follow the money and the self interest.

Did you study history or teach it, you seem too well informed to just have a passing interest.

 

[RoundCubic]

I read the Kingsolver book Poisonwood Bible a while back and that was on post Belgian Congo and the US meddling in international politics for financial gain, Nicaragua, Iran etc all had US involvement in their politics that were really ways to pave the way for US private companies to access to their markets or direct access to the countries resources.

Mate the CIA was involved in the Whitlam dismissal.

There was some mad cowboys doing the rounds during the coldwar they made some huge f'ups Iran being probably number 1 but a post-WW2 isolationist America would of lead to a really dark timeline.

Even today for all of Europe's posturing it's Europe where you find the Burka ban and they have shown little interest in dealing with the problems across the Mediterranean. While China and Russia has gone from Communists to Fascists, are still trying to push out their national borders and prop up the worst regimes around the world.

 

[RoundCubic]

Absolutely fascinating I love reading about history, I can remember reading about the carve up of the middle east and the old League of Nations.

I guess it's always pretty much the same follow the money and the self interest.

Did you study history or teach it, you seem too well informed to just have a passing interest.

History major and passing interest but I went through junior high in New York

 

[CursingFijian]

 

[VDS66]

Chomsky kicks ass.

Requiem for the American Dream is a much watch.

 

[gringo2011]

Chomsky kicks ass.

Requiem for the American Dream is a much watch.

It's a pretty depressing doco though. Politicians need to start future proofing the system and they are instead going into head butting contests with each other. No matter what side you are on the Gay marriage debate not being decided by the parliament shows that the whole political system is a waste of time. Should just automate them or have a peoples parliament where a jury duty style set up decides legislation by internet vote. They couldn't **** it up any worse and they never get cosy enough to Matthew Guy the system.

Some form of mass socialism is the future realistically with health care and universal wage or the capitalist system is going to struggle finding people to hand over money as more and more jobs go.

The US is still the second largest manufacturer on earth but not much of that work is done by humans or is done in prison where they don't pay normal wages.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's a pretty depressing doco though. Politicians need to start future proofing the system and they are instead going into head butting contests with each other. No matter what side you are on the Gay marriage debate not being decided by the parliament shows that the whole political system is a waste of time. Should just automate them or have a peoples parliament where a jury duty style set up decides legislation by internet vote. They couldn't **** it up any worse and they never get cosy enough to Matthew Guy the system.

Some form of mass socialism is the future realistically with health care and universal wage or the capitalist system is going to struggle finding people to hand over money as more and more jobs go.

The US is still the second largest manufacturer on earth but not much of that work is done by humans or is done in prison where they don't pay normal wages.

There are still plenty of manual manufacturers.
They are way more competitive than Australia.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Production_Operator/Hourly_Rate
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Production-Operator-Salaries

Is this a good thing?
Well its good that they don't close down the plants they work in.
Its good that the guy who makes leading hand gets paid a decent premium for his extra responsibility.

Australia have terrible pay scales.
I've worked in places where , due to overtime payable to some and not others, the base level workers take home more than their supervisors.
They think its great until they close the door.

No motivation to do better or take on more responsibility/stress.

 

[gringo2011]

There are still plenty of manual manufacturers.
They are way more competitive than Australia.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Production_Operator/Hourly_Rate
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Production-Operator-Salaries

Is this a good thing?
Well its good that they don't close down the plants they work in.
Its good that the guy who makes leading hand gets paid a decent premium for his extra responsibility.

Australia have terrible pay scales.
I've worked in places where , due to overtime payable to some and not others, the base level workers take home more than their supervisors.
They think its great until they close the door.

No motivation to do better or take on more responsibility/stress.

I'm not saying we have it right either, it's a big issue that incomes have stagnated and jobs are not being created as fast as populations are rising too. Youth unemployment and under employment are not going away and bigger chunks of society are being pushed out. The corporate model is going to have to be changed as more gets automated. It's the biggest flaw in the capitalist system, you get to a point of off shoring and cost cutting until you end up with not enough money going through the system to sustain it.

We aren't about to return to the days when everyone had a job and manual factory work is the most obvious one to go first. I don't know what the answer is because even if you aren't an environmentalist you can only use resources until they go and for a few to have a lot, a lot have to go with out. It's basically too hard and won't be fixed until the whole thing ****s out and we start again.

 

[Pardon me]

I'm not saying we have it right either, it's a big issue that incomes have stagnated and jobs are not being created as fast as populations are rising too. Youth unemployment and under employment are not going away and bigger chunks of society are being pushed out. The corporate model is going to have to be changed as more gets automated. It's the biggest flaw in the capitalist system, you get to a point of off shoring and cost cutting until you end up with not enough money going through the system to sustain it.

We aren't about to return to the days when everyone had a job and manual factory work is the most obvious one to go first. I don't know what the answer is because even if you aren't an environmentalist you can only use resources until they go and for a few to have a lot, a lot have to go with out. It's basically too hard and won't be fixed until the whole thing ****s out and we start again.

I agree with some of this reading guys, I make decent enough money in my role but some of the casuals on OT were making nearly a grand more per week in the peak season. As a business we resorted to shifts and cancelled the OT.
Was it right or wrong?
For the individuals impacted its most certainly wrong, for the new individuals employed I would argue it's right, plus the business gets a win also from a whole host of factors.
Not sure what the best outcome is to be honest

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree with some of this reading guys, I make decent enough money in my role but some of the casuals on OT were making nearly a grand more per week in the peak season. As a business we resorted to shifts and cancelled the OT.
Was it right or wrong?
For the individuals impacted its most certainly wrong, for the new individuals employed I would argue it's right, plus the business gets a win also from a whole host of factors.
Not sure what the best outcome is to be honest

The idea that we can give the whole population a pay rise and we'll all be better off is totally flawed.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Was surprised to hear SEN news at 5.30.
Apparently Nick Riewoldt is IN and "SPENCER White " is out .

 

[Diehard Saint]

Politics is a funny business you rarely get the people you need but they say you get the people you deserve.

Never a truer word spoken!

 

[VDS66]

The idea that we can give the whole population a pay rise and we'll all be better off is totally flawed.

What is flawed is the whole monetary system which manufactures so called scarcity in products and services, thus creating the need to work in exchange for money in order to survive.

Anything that is profit driven is flawed.

Free markets and globalization are a con of epic proportions.

All this privatisation of public services... where has that got us? Competition? Efficiency? How's those power bills going?

Oil supply is regulated by OPEC to ensure stable prices and once again maximise profits.

And the war machine keeps rolling along in order to maintain a supply of cheap oil.

Arm Saddam. When he doesn't toe the line, get rid of him.

Invade and destroy a country, then Halliburton makes squillions from construction contracts.

Democracy is a fraud perpetuated onto ignorant people.

Debt is the new slavery. That's why we call it the rat race or the treadmill. You keep going and go nowhere.

 

[RoundCubic]

Capitalism is the best system we have for managing the exchange of goods and services. I always wondered in Star Trek how someone would be allocated a home, who got to drink the wine that Picards brother grew, How the restaurant Sisko's operated. What if I ask for 10,000 chocolate sundays from a replicator.

If you remove the ability of individuals to amass wealth then they will be drawn to areas where they can amass power this is one of the reasons communism failed many successful entrepreneurs display sociopathic tendencies if these people are in government they amass power to try and satiate desires rather then provide and improve services.

Gorbachev didn't want the collapse of the USSR he was trying to save it. The lack of free market enterprise had turned every government department big and small, local and national into a little kingdom who's purpose became providing luxury to its kings and princes.

As much as I dislike Steve Jobs he is a great example of an entrepreneur nothing was revolutionary in any apple products it was just packaged and refined to be a superior product. Opposed to the USSR basically mading the same 4 cars for the entire cold war.

Also representational government and healthy capitalism are tied together because when you own things/run business you have a stake in a fair system and why periods of economic instability often lead to demagogues.

But privatisation of monopolies is stupid especially when they provide essential services it incentivises gold plating even if you guard against fraud.

OPEC ensured price supply and political stability by off setting the high input cost for exploration and exploitation.
The system broke down a few years ago as people feared the approach of peak oil from developing world demand and fears terrorism/war would impact exports but the high price just made fracking profitable and today prices have returned to norm. but aussie dollar and other bullshit artificially inflates our pump price.

All live is suffering, all organisms are slaves to their needs and humans have needs beyond food and shelter. The malady of my generation compared to the previous post-WW2 generations is insecurity. Our jobs are not secure, we have to borrow so much to buy a home, we rely on dual incomes to pay for it putting pressure on relationships we then have to fear failing, and because external factors often determine our success but in a historical sense we have access to luxuries greater then the richest peoples of any time before the 20th century.

 

[gringo2011]

Capitalism is the best system we have for managing the exchange of goods and services. I always wondered in Star Trek how someone would be allocated a home, who got to drink the wine that Picards brother grew, How the restaurant Sisko's operated. What if I ask for 10,000 chocolate sundays from a replicator.

If you remove the ability of individuals to amass wealth then they will be drawn to areas where they can amass power this is one of the reasons communism failed many successful entrepreneurs display sociopathic tendencies if these people are in government they amass power to try and satiate desires rather then provide and improve services.

Gorbachev didn't want the collapse of the USSR he was trying to save it. The lack of free market enterprise had turned every government department big and small, local and national into a little kingdom who's purpose became providing luxury to its kings and princes.

As much as I dislike Steve Jobs he is a great example of an entrepreneur nothing was revolutionary in any apple products it was just packaged and refined to be a superior product. Opposed to the USSR basically mading the same 4 cars for the entire cold war.

Also representational government and healthy capitalism are tied together because when you own things/run business you have a stake in a fair system and why periods of economic instability often lead to demagogues.

But privatisation of monopolies is stupid especially when they provide essential services it incentivises gold plating even if you guard against fraud.

OPEC ensured price supply and political stability by off setting the high input cost for exploration and exploitation.
The system broke down a few years ago as people feared the approach of peak oil from developing world demand and fears terrorism/war would impact exports but the high price just made fracking profitable and today prices have returned to norm. but aussie dollar and other bullshit artificially inflates our pump price.

All live is suffering, all organisms are slaves to their needs and humans have needs beyond food and shelter. The malady of my generation compared to the previous post-WW2 generations is insecurity. Our jobs are not secure, we have to borrow so much to buy a home, we rely on dual incomes to pay for it putting pressure on relationships we then have to fear failing, and because external factors often determine our success but in a historical sense we have access to luxuries greater then the richest peoples of any time before the 20th century.

Capitalism is fine in principal but humans have a bad habit of cheating everything. The moment people don't act responsibly in any system it breaks down. Off shoring jobs and hiding income and not paying taxes etc all eat away at the system. The modern way of offering services that don't provide jobs and have individuals compete against each other will make it worse. Uber, AirBnB etc all provide jack and skim money while making people offer their service for less and less while killing existing industries who do provide jobs. American Capitalism is broken, Australia had a very good system with a limited socialism and well regulated government owned service system. Unfortunately we were sold the idea of selling off assets as a way of cutting debt. It was like selling our house to an investor to rent it back. It's going to have to get worse to get to a point that people will see the point in fixing it.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Had a pizza for dinner last night. Really nice one with the lot.
Had two slices left to take to work today for lunch. I'm a simple man and life is good







Just wanted to provide some " simple talk" for those of us like me on here who don't even know what half of the words mean in most of the above global politics post.

 

[Pardon me]

Capitalism is fine in principal but humans have a bad habit of cheating everything. The moment people don't act responsibly in any system it breaks down. Off shoring jobs and hiding income and not paying taxes etc all eat away at the system. The modern way of offering services that don't provide jobs and have individuals compete against each other will make it worse. Uber, AirBnB etc all provide jack and skim money while making people offer their service for less and less while killing existing industries who do provide jobs. American Capitalism is broken, Australia had a very good system with a limited socialism and well regulated government owned service system. Unfortunately we were sold the idea of selling off assets as a way of cutting debt. It was like selling our house to an investor to rent it back. It's going to have to get worse to get to a point that people will see the point in fixing it.

There was a fantastic example of Game Theory doing the rounds the other week. It was amazing just seeing how many people tried to cheat their way through. Speaks volumes of us as humans and the current environment. Really sad actually...
Anyway it was a bit of an insight into the office and each individuals motivation.
Interesting stuff.

 

[Kildonan]

I think the Australian system has benefits. The Labor party innovates and provides services that the people want. The Liberal party dismantles what they can of what Labor has brought in, thus reducing the cost to the Taxpayer. Voters then get peeved because they realise that they are worse off despite the lower taxes and the cycle repeats.

The American system is not as effective because both major parties are right wing, the Democrats being closer to Centrist. Also their Defense department costs too much and they are weighed down even more than Australia by the cost of supporting Tax free religious institutions.

 

[StCicatriz]

Bannon gooooonnnneeeeee. I think Trump is going to be squeezed out

 

[Yawkey way]

There are still plenty of manual manufacturers.
They are way more competitive than Australia.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Production_Operator/Hourly_Rate
https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Production-Operator-Salaries

Is this a good thing?
Well its good that they don't close down the plants they work in.
Its good that the guy who makes leading hand gets paid a decent premium for his extra responsibility.

Australia have terrible pay scales.
I've worked in places where , due to overtime payable to some and not others, the base level workers take home more than their supervisors.
They think its great until they close the door.

No motivation to do better or take on more responsibility/stress.

Happens everywhere unskilled jobs on major projects getting $150,000 base it's a joke.

I've seen people make an absolute fortune in overtime and shift penalties.

I have also worked for both the state and commonwealth and have seen how hard ordinary public servants work but strangely enough both departments I worked for had two of the biggest rorts I have ever seen. The beneficiarys weren't what you would think of as public servants and the jobs required little skill or knowledge. Both had a disincentive to promotion, go figure.

 

[Yawkey way]

I think the Australian system has benefits. The Labor party innovates and provides services that the people want. The Liberal party dismantles what they can of what Labor has brought in, thus reducing the cost to the Taxpayer. Voters then get peeved because they realise that they are worse off despite the lower taxes and the cycle repeats.

The American system is not as effective because both major parties are right wing, the Democrats being closer to Centrist. Also their Defense department costs too much and they are weighed down even more than Australia by the cost of supporting Tax free religious institutions.

What is one of the best ways ever invented to transfer public money collected through taxation into private hands and at the same time never have enough for pensions, health etc.

Defence spending.

 

[Yawkey way]

Capitalism is fine in principal but humans have a bad habit of cheating everything. The moment people don't act responsibly in any system it breaks down. Off shoring jobs and hiding income and not paying taxes etc all eat away at the system. The modern way of offering services that don't provide jobs and have individuals compete against each other will make it worse. Uber, AirBnB etc all provide jack and skim money while making people offer their service for less and less while killing existing industries who do provide jobs. American Capitalism is broken, Australia had a very good system with a limited socialism and well regulated government owned service system. Unfortunately we were sold the idea of selling off assets as a way of cutting debt. It was like selling our house to an investor to rent it back. It's going to have to get worse to get to a point that people will see the point in fixing it.

I remember when we owned all the utilities etc, their buying some back in Britain I believe.

Governments need to tax any company replacing workers with automation or AI. If they don't our tax base will disappear with our jobs. It's just the tip if the iceberg, I've have 4 kids and while 3 hopefully 4 are very well qualified and on their way I wonder if even a fantastic education will be enough, probably better off with a trade.

They have a word in that Nordic system for a concept we don't seem to have it means an adequate sufficiency.

 

[Yawkey way]

Bannon gooooonnnneeeeee. I think Trump is going to be squeezed out

Let's just see how this plays out, bannon might work for him, then again maybe he makes life more difficult for trump back at breitbart.

I mean who was bannon anyway he came onto the campaign late and what did he do, Steve bannon big deal.

One thing is for sure we are watching a partisan fracturing that unless they find a way back it's going to be impossible for any president without a comfortable majority in both places to get anything done.

 

[StCicatriz]

Let's just see how this plays out, bannon might work for him, then again maybe he makes life more difficult for trump back at breitbart.

I mean who was bannon anyway he came onto the campaign late and what did he do, Steve bannon big deal.

One thing is for sure we are watching a partisan fracturing that unless they find a way back it's going to be impossible for any president without a comfortable majority in both places to get anything done.

good call

it feels like even the republicans are starting to get sick of him