Discussion Random Discussion

[cartel]

Shin Cup Ramen is actually quality hangover food.

 

[gringo2011]

Shin Cup Ramen is actually quality hangover food.

Cup noodles don't sound like a good hang over cure. Need more grease.

 

[cartel]

Cup noodles don't sound like a good hang over cure. Need more grease.

Normally go for bacon and eggs, maybe some kransky, but the cupboard was pretty bare today. The saltiness was good.

 

[gringo2011]

Normally go for bacon and eggs, maybe some kransky, but the cupboard was pretty bare today. The saltiness was good.

Salty and watery sounds okay actually.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I have fallen for 2 Tampa teams: the Lightning in the NHL, and the Rays in the MLB. They don't have an NBA team. But I'm looking down the barrel of having to go for the Buccaneers for the sake of consistency: one of the most putrid, pointless, sickening teams in the whole comp... and I'd rather do that, than watch one more Saints game this season.

Im getting ready to watch 16+ more saints games before st.kilda are back.

New Orleans are actually a decent team with good weapons either side of the ball.
Should be there at the pointy end of the season.

Ahem... this post did not age well.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Ahem... this post did not age well.

Im disgusted.
Saints living up to their aussie counterparts.

 

[austinnn]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-cartoon-exposes-australias-ignorance-on-race

I have to say I agree with most of the opinions presented in this article. It's hard to face because I've got a lot of love for Australia, but it's not just about the ignorance of the cartoonist, it's about the reaction to protests about his view.

 

[gringo2011]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-cartoon-exposes-australias-ignorance-on-race

I have to say I agree with most of the opinions presented in this article. It's hard to face because I've got a lot of love for Australia, but it's not just about the ignorance of the cartoonist, it's about the reaction to protests about his view.

Yeah, it's a hard one, we have never had a real race revolution and never really faced up to anything. In the US it's an obvious no go zone but we are kind of naive to it here. Like the Hey Hey It's Saturday black and white minstrel thing that Aussies also played dumb on, we just don't really get it. The stereo type dehumanised black person that is primitive and less evolved was perpetrated for a long time and took a lot of people a lot of fighting to reverse. We have a largely oppressed indigenous population that was so decimated that they have lost some of their fight and never held white people to account.

I think Knight probably truely didn't get the insensitivity of the imagery but I don't know if that's an excuse or if that's worse.... he's started doing more right wing cartoons probably on the newspapers orders to garner outrage.

 

[Crusty Undies]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-cartoon-exposes-australias-ignorance-on-race

I have to say I agree with most of the opinions presented in this article. It's hard to face because I've got a lot of love for Australia, but it's not just about the ignorance of the cartoonist, it's about the reaction to protests about his view.

The cartoon made a mockery of Williams for acting like a spoilt little child. It's got nothing to do with racism it's just pointing out that she is a bad loser, something we value here in Australia. After the match she tried to blame umpiring decisions on sexism like no man has ever been penalised for acting like a spoilt child too but on the contrary the men do it more often and we call all of them out too.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yeah, it's a hard one, we have never had a real race revolution and never really faced up to anything. In the US it's an obvious no go zone but we are kind of naive to it here. Like the Hey Hey It's Saturday black and white minstrel thing that Aussies also played dumb on, we just don't really get it. The stereo type dehumanised black person that is primitive and less evolved was perpetrated for a long time and took a lot of people a lot of fighting to reverse. We have a largely oppressed indigenous population that was so decimated that they have lost some of their fight and never held white people to account.

I think Knight probably truely didn't get the insensitivity of the imagery but I don't know if that's an excuse or if that's worse.... he's started doing more right wing cartoons probably on the newspapers orders to garner outrage.

I really hate this idea that white people today are guilty for the crimes of white people 300 years ago. We don't hold children accountable for their parents crimes. And if it is the case that we hold white Australians accountable for their ancestors crimes, why don't we hold everyone in South America guilty for the crimes of the Aztecs and Incas? Why don't we hold Indigenous Aboriginals here responsible for the infanticide of 30-50% of their children prior to white colonists supposedly ruining their lives?

No. White people are held accountable now because it's the only culture capable of self criticism and simultaneously in a position to give money for feeling guilty about said self criticism. No one in Australia is oppressed, no one in America is oppressed and the people telling you there are, are the same people who support "Democratic Socialism" which is a thinly veiled attempt to force socialism down everyone's throat by means of calling people racist, sexist or bigoted if they disagree.

 

[austinnn]

Yeah, it's a hard one, we have never had a real race revolution and never really faced up to anything. In the US it's an obvious no go zone but we are kind of naive to it here. Like the Hey Hey It's Saturday black and white minstrel thing that Aussies also played dumb on, we just don't really get it.

Agreed. It's a bit sad to see people treating this as s freedom of expression issue without considering the historical implications, a bit like the folks who say "I don't mind if black people put on white make up and pretend to be like me, why should they care if I put on blackface?", etc.

When you consider the origins of the country, I suppose it's no real surprise that Australia's racism is so built-in to everything, it rears its ugly head all over the place. It has only recently (since the 90s) been examined seriously and even then, mostly on a surface level, to the point where even many accusations of racism are naive - Red Flag words are judged more than casually or subtly racist attitudes. Not just an Australian issue of course, but the country does seem to lack that more considered opinion - in public at any rate.

 

[austinnn]

I really hate this idea that white people today are guilty for the crimes of white people 300 years ago. We don't hold children accountable for their parents crimes. And if it is the case that we hold white Australians accountable for their ancestors crimes, why don't we hold everyone in South America guilty for the crimes of the Aztecs and Incas? Why don't we hold Indigenous Aboriginals here responsible for the infanticide of 30-50% of their children prior to white colonists supposedly ruining their lives?

No. White people are held accountable now because it's the only culture capable of self criticism and simultaneously in a position to give money for feeling guilty about said self criticism. No one in Australia is oppressed, no one in America is oppressed and the people telling you there are, are the same people who support "Democratic Socialism" which is a thinly veiled attempt to force socialism down everyone's throat by means of calling people racist, sexist or bigoted if they disagree.

Balanced post /s

 

[StCicatriz]

I really hate this idea that white people today are guilty for the crimes of white people 300 years ago. We don't hold children accountable for their parents crimes. And if it is the case that we hold white Australians accountable for their ancestors crimes, why don't we hold everyone in South America guilty for the crimes of the Aztecs and Incas? Why don't we hold Indigenous Aboriginals here responsible for the infanticide of 30-50% of their children prior to white colonists supposedly ruining their lives?

No. White people are held accountable now because it's the only culture capable of self criticism and simultaneously in a position to give money for feeling guilty about said self criticism. No one in Australia is oppressed, no one in America is oppressed and the people telling you there are, are the same people who support "Democratic Socialism" which is a thinly veiled attempt to force socialism down everyone's throat by means of calling people racist, sexist or bigoted if they disagree.

agree with the first paragraph, disagree on the 2nd. oppressed might not be the right determine but there is significant disadvantage

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

i dunno its a tough one with regards to the cartoon .... ive always though something is racist when it degrades a person for thier apperance not their actions ... in this case i do think the cartoon was throwing critisim towards the action not on Serena's ethnicity ... i can certainly see how the drawing of Serena can be seen as being racist in the fact of the exagerated personal features in the drawing but you can equally argue thats the whole style of a charicture where the artist uses physical features and exagerates them ... i mean we have drawings of many people in that style that are not considered racist .. an examle being Nelson Mandela in this cartoon below ... as an aftican man he has distinguishing features that the cartoon exagerates but i dont think its in anyway degrading to the man because of his race..

here becomes the slippery slope with racism if we treat everything remotely unflattering as a racist action does that not push us further away from realising a world where we are less racist ? i mean the outrage over this cartoon is seeing a polarising effect and pushes people further into their corners in the issue...

 

[gringo2011]

I really hate this idea that white people today are guilty for the crimes of white people 300 years ago. We don't hold children accountable for their parents crimes. And if it is the case that we hold white Australians accountable for their ancestors crimes, why don't we hold everyone in South America guilty for the crimes of the Aztecs and Incas? Why don't we hold Indigenous Aboriginals here responsible for the infanticide of 30-50% of their children prior to white colonists supposedly ruining their lives?

No. White people are held accountable now because it's the only culture capable of self criticism and simultaneously in a position to give money for feeling guilty about said self criticism. No one in Australia is oppressed, no one in America is oppressed and the people telling you there are, are the same people who support "Democratic Socialism" which is a thinly veiled attempt to force socialism down everyone's throat by means of calling people racist, sexist or bigoted if they disagree.

You shouldn't feel guilty for anything about the past but you can also see that if your people were ridiculed for along time you would be sensitive to being ridiculed now. PC stuff can go to far but there is also a balance. I like to think I'm pretty balanced, some lefties go too far with their ridiculous self aggrandisement and excessive sensitivity but likewise, some things are just offensive to some people so it doesn't hurt to be civil.

People like Clemantine Ford seem to think that being aggressively anti male will some how spread the gospel through shock tactics, but I'm pretty sure she just smashes a divide between people who take black and white positions.

There needs to be a common sense approach to things without the overly emotional polarising that goes on. I'm not sure what socialism has to do with this at all.

Serena was a dick ruining Osaka's victory and has probably made her self look like a bad sport, Americans certainly didn't cover themselves in glory booing Osaka as well. The cartoon is offensive because of how past representations of black people in the US media.

If it's offensive to them it's offensive, doesn't make it a deliberate racist action but can still be construed as racist by the fact that it pools in with the way "negroes" were represented in the past to ridicule them. He probably even had it still in his sub conscious from things he's seen. If you represented a Jewish person as a big nosed evil looking sneak or asians as buck toothed physically weak specimens you'd get the same response.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I really hate this idea that white people today are guilty for the crimes of white people 300 years ago. We don't hold children accountable for their parents crimes. And if it is the case that we hold white Australians accountable for their ancestors crimes, why don't we hold everyone in South America guilty for the crimes of the Aztecs and Incas? Why don't we hold Indigenous Aboriginals here responsible for the infanticide of 30-50% of their children prior to white colonists supposedly ruining their lives?

No. White people are held accountable now because it's the only culture capable of self criticism and simultaneously in a position to give money for feeling guilty about said self criticism. No one in Australia is oppressed, no one in America is oppressed and the people telling you there are, are the same people who support "Democratic Socialism" which is a thinly veiled attempt to force socialism down everyone's throat by means of calling people racist, sexist or bigoted if they disagree.

im with you no one is saying crimes of 300 years ago need to be paid for by the people of today but i think its reasonable to understand that the crimes actually did happen and acknowledge that the effects of those crimes are still open wounds felt today .. its not about guild or pushing blame or making white people feel bad for being white but it is about understanding that there is still a lot of hurt and a lot of baggage still lingering on from that time and just ignoring it cause it was before your time doesnt help in moving forward from it ...

if you think no one in Australia is oppressed then im afraid you live a sheltered life... casual racisim is still very much ingrained into Australian society, again its not about making white people feel bad but its about changing perceptions white people have of non-white people.... its a huge differance , sure there are extreems there are people who do want white Australia to feel some of the wrath for the actions of the past but for the most part i think the goal we all want to achieve is to just have a fair go for everyone

 

[Crusty Undies]

Balanced post /s

Useful comment /s

 

[Crusty Undies]

agree with the first paragraph, disagree on the 2nd. oppressed might not be the right determine but there is significant disadvantage

According to who? Black people and aboriginals, the two supposedly most oppressed people still, get concessions on everything from welfare benefits to special consideration when entering tertiary education to exemption from certain laws. I'm not saying racism isn't a thing, of course there are still racist assholes worldwide, but there aren't "institutionalized systems" holding certain people back despite what alt-left SJWs say.

 

[Crusty Undies]

i dunno its a tough one with regards to the cartoon .... ive always though something is racist when it degrades a person for thier apperance not their actions ... in this case i do think the cartoon was throwing critisim towards the action not on Serena's ethnicity ... i can certainly see how the drawing of Serena can be seen as being racist in the fact of the exagerated personal features in the drawing but you can equally argue thats the whole style of a charicture where the artist uses physical features and exagerates them ... i mean we have drawings of many people in that style that are not considered racist .. an examle being Nelson Mandela in this cartoon below ... as an aftican man he has distinguishing features that the cartoon exagerates but i dont think its in anyway degrading to the man because of his race..

here becomes the slippery slope with racism if we treat everything remotely unflattering as a racist action does that not push us further away from realising a world where we are less racist ? i mean the outrage over this cartoon is seeing a polarising effect and pushes people further into their corners in the issue...

Is it racist to degrade a white person for their appearance? How many unflattering cartoons of Abbott, Rudd, Gillard, Turnbull have there been? I haven't seen any of those called racist. It's just making fun of a person, sure it's cheap humour but I don't think racism should really come into the equation.

 

[StCicatriz]

According to who? Black people and aboriginals, the two supposedly most oppressed people still, get concessions on everything from welfare benefits to special consideration when entering tertiary education to exemption from certain laws. I'm not saying racism isn't a thing, of course there are still racist assholes worldwide, but there aren't "institutionalized systems" holding certain people back despite what alt-left SJWs say.

errr yuck. that last part is very poor. can we get off this left vs right s**t fight that any kind of conversation around sensitive issues tends to turn into.

ever been to a remote area? have you spoken to those working in government services be it in health or welfare roles?

 

[Crusty Undies]

You shouldn't feel guilty for anything about the past but you can also see that if your people were ridiculed for along time you would be sensitive to being ridiculed now. PC stuff can go to far but there is also a balance. I like to think I'm pretty balanced, some lefties go too far with their ridiculous self aggrandisement and excessive sensitivity but likewise, some things are just offensive to some people so it doesn't hurt to be civil.

People like Clemantine Ford seem to think that being aggressively anti male will some how spread the gospel through shock tactics, but I'm pretty sure she just smashes a divide between people who take black and white positions.

There needs to be a common sense approach to things without the overly emotional polarising that goes on. I'm not sure what socialism has to do with this at all.

Serena was a dick ruining Osaka's victory and has probably made her self look like a bad sport, Americans certainly didn't cover themselves in glory booing Osaka as well. The cartoon is offensive because of how past representations of black people in the US media.

If it's offensive to them it's offensive, doesn't make it a deliberate racist action but can still be construed as racist by the fact that it pools in with the way "negroes" were represented in the past to ridicule them. He probably even had it still in his sub conscious from things he's seen. If you represented a Jewish person as a big nosed evil looking sneak or asians as buck toothed physically weak specimens you'd get the same response.

If it's offensive to them it's offensive.

Why does that matter? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we should all be offensive to everyone for no reason but, why does it actually matter if someone is offended? I used to get offended when people used the word * because I have a disabled brother, should we persecute them as being ableist? No, it's on me for being offended and it's on me to get over the use of a word or a picture or a phrase or anything else that's construed as offensive.

I don't see that really as being any different tbh.

 

[StFly]

So just want to say, as an Australian with Scottish & Italian history, I'm finding this "white people" rhetoric entirely racist, as whilst I may be a reflective surface of the sun on the outside, on the inside I am a manly man of divinity that make the fairer sex swoon.

Or is it only casual racism when it's "black people" since that's not an observation? I'm confused at where the line is, my pasty white arse must not be up with the socially accepted racist cards. I mean, I've been bullied, I've been poor, I have dem mental issues of self harm infrequently, why must my skin colour be lumped in with others of similar skin colours? Why can't I be purple? As it's at least better than Lime Green.

Christ now I'm whatever colour haters are, someone get me off this slope...

The above is obviously hyperbole to highlight a point.

You can't apparently draw a woman of colour as a caricature, you can however casually cite white people with no fuss because casual racism is AOK when it's a majority, particularly pointing out that black women in particular did not like the drawing.

In other news, water is apparently wet, unless you specifically poll the saline content in which case it's salty and needs to smile.

 

[Crusty Undies]

im with you no one is saying crimes of 300 years ago need to be paid for by the people of today but i think its reasonable to understand that the crimes actually did happen and acknowledge that the effects of those crimes are still open wounds felt today .. its not about guild or pushing blame or making white people feel bad for being white but it is about understanding that there is still a lot of hurt and a lot of baggage still lingering on from that time and just ignoring it cause it was before your time doesnt help in moving forward from it ...

if you think no one in Australia is oppressed then im afraid you live a sheltered life... casual racisim is still very much ingrained into Australian society, again its not about making white people feel bad but its about changing perceptions white people have of non-white people.... its a huge differance , sure there are extreems there are people who do want white Australia to feel some of the wrath for the actions of the past but for the most part i think the goal we all want to achieve is to just have a fair go for everyone

But there are people saying that, there are people that still want reparations for the supposed crimes of people we're distantly related too. But funnily enough, other cultures have lost wars too. Do you see Christians approaching Egypt and complaining about reparations for stealing Alexandria?

Casual racism isn't oppression. Racism is bad, yes; but it's not oppressive to be racist, you're just being an arsehole.

I'd argue everyone gets essentially a fair go now, actually I'd go one step further and say the only people who don't get a fair go anymore in Australia are white people and immigrants who aren't part of these "oppressed groups". Indigenous and TSI people get significantly lowered requirements for university entry than Caucasians, Asians, Americans, South Americans etc. Same goes for immigrants from African countries, to varying degrees; housing, food, education, welfare etc are a benefit that simply isn't available to white people in the same conditions.

Anyway, I think we can all agree we want the same thing which is that everyone gets equal opportunity in life. I completely agree, it seems we have different opinions regarding how exactly that would be achieved but that's fair enough.

 

[Crusty Undies]

errr yuck. that last part is very poor. can we get off this left vs right s**t fight that any kind of conversation around sensitive issues tends to turn into.

ever been to a remote area? have you spoken to those working in government services be it in health or welfare roles?

But is it wrong? I mean the vocal group of people campaigning for their interpretation of equal rights is very left wing and I don't think it's very hard to prove that there aren't institutionalized systems of oppression anymore...

But fair call I probably shouldn't have jumped to alt-left SJW.

 

[austinnn]

Useful comment /s

As useful as a two paragraph rant that confirms the original statement. No wonder.