Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

You can't be serious right? There absolutely are people who think you can't be racist to white people or sexist to men it's called the entire intersectional and sjw left wing. Haven't you heard the phrase "Racism = Prejudice + Power" when rational people attempt to point out their hypocrisy? Or those women who not only accept but revel in the fact that they're misandrists? Don't be ridiculous, these people absolutely exist and they're the ones currently being touted as pro equality. The higher ups in the Black Lives Matter movement all say the same "Racism = Prejudice + Power" bullshit whenever someone questions them, are you telling me people don't take BLM seriously?

What's your problem with White South Africa? They're currently undergoing the worst genocide of the 21st century under the support of their government but we shouldn't take them because they're white? Do you not see your own hypocrisy?

As for multi-cultural, do you agree with the diverse view that we should throw gays off of buildings? Stone women to death for the crime of being r*ped? Or maybe, kill people who don't believe that same as you? Because that's what you're statistically getting with 51% of Islamic immigrants, people who wouldn't object to Sharia law being propagated in First World Countries as it is in Egypt or Saudi Arabia right now. I have no problem with multi-ethnic immigrants but why should we willingly bring people into the country who aren't interested in the same core values as our country? People who would see our country in it's current form die out to become something not dissimilar to their own origins?

And no, the Williams caricature was making fun of Serena Williams. Did you call the caricatures Mark Knight has done of any of our Past Prime Ministers, Sports Stars, Trump, Hillary or anyone else in the past for being racist to white people and accentuating the generic features of white people? Of course you didn't, because that's absurd.

I don't think that South Africans have any trouble coming here. Perth is called West South Africa these days because so many come. I'm not sure the South Africans are committing genocide either.

Anyway, extreme views from left wing points of view, right wing points of view and any where else including religion are really divisive. The problem with the way we are fed news and opinion on line is we tend to get buried in opinions similar to our own and the mass of voices tends to make people make more outrageous statements to get more attention.

At the end of the day if we all treat each other well and don't ridicule each other, every one is happy.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

You can't be serious right? There absolutely are people who think you can't be racist to white people or sexist to men it's called the entire intersectional and sjw left wing. Haven't you heard the phrase "Racism = Prejudice + Power" when rational people attempt to point out their hypocrisy? Or those women who not only accept but revel in the fact that they're misandrists? Don't be ridiculous, these people absolutely exist and they're the ones currently being touted as pro equality. The higher ups in the Black Lives Matter movement all say the same "Racism = Prejudice + Power" bullshit whenever someone questions them, are you telling me people don't take BLM seriously?

What's your problem with White South Africa? They're currently undergoing the worst genocide of the 21st century under the support of their government but we shouldn't take them because they're white? Do you not see your own hypocrisy?

As for multi-cultural, do you agree with the diverse view that we should throw gays off of buildings? Stone women to death for the crime of being r*ped? Or maybe, kill people who don't believe that same as you? Because that's what you're statistically getting with 51% of Islamic immigrants, people who wouldn't object to Sharia law being propagated in First World Countries as it is in Egypt or Saudi Arabia right now. I have no problem with multi-ethnic immigrants but why should we willingly bring people into the country who aren't interested in the same core values as our country? People who would see our country in it's current form die out to become something not dissimilar to their own origins?

And no, the Williams caricature was making fun of Serena Williams. Did you call the caricatures Mark Knight has done of any of our Past Prime Ministers, Sports Stars, Trump, Hillary or anyone else in the past for being racist to white people and accentuating the generic features of white people? Of course you didn't, because that's absurd.

wow you really need to stop following Reclaim australia ...
51% of Islamic migrants would be happy with Sharia Law ?? did Blair Cottrell get those stats for you ? because that is just made up bullshit...
this is not a left vs right argument but if we are to go down that path so be it... the left side of thought i will admit do lean in favour of the minoritys but thats because we can see the minoritys being taken advantage of we can see that they are the easy target for the right and lets be honest they need the help more ... as for the Rights everything about them is manufactured bullshit this patriotic veiw is just a good guise to be a bell end and take a higher moral ground for being a bell end .. they flood their supporters with bullshit memes with made up "facts" and their supporters lap it up ... heres the thing if you need to lie or exagerate or tell a half truth to prove your point then theres a fair chance your point is wrong ...

as for Mark Knights cartoon i honestly dont believe it was drawn with a racist undertone at all but heres the thing once it was pointed out it was seen as being racist to a large portion of people he should have just said he was sorry for causing offence and that was not his aim with the cartoon , where its becoming an issue is the way he and his supporters are now defending the cartoon ... you mention his cartoons done of any of our Past Prime Ministers, Sports Stars, Trump, Hillary or what ever not seen as being offensive i think that is the whole damn point if society doesnt deem them offensive then they are not offensive if society does then it is offensive ... its all in the way it is recieved ...
if i call you a name and i call someone else that name if you find that offensive but the other person doesnt find it offensive the other person not finding it offensive doesnt make your offence of being called that unacceptable ... if i continue to call you that name you understandably will become upset by that especially if you tell me you find it offensive .. this is the situation here is no differant to calling adam Goodes an ape , to some they cant see how that is offensive to Goodes but Goodes most certainly finds it offensive so when he vocalises that he finds that offensive the right action is to appologise and not call him that again the wrong action is to call him a flog and that he should harden up and its not racist and everything is racist to you people blah blah blah ....
thats the main problem i have with the right its the fact that they thing their so called right to be hurtful to someone is more important than the just being nice to people in the first place ...

 

[VDS66]

I don't think that South Africans have any trouble coming here. Perth is called West South Africa these days because so many come. I'm not sure the South Africans are committing genocide either.

Anyway, extreme views from left wing points of view, right wing points of view and any where else including religion are really divisive. The problem with the way we are fed news and opinion on line is we tend to get buried in opinions similar to our own and the mass of voices tends to make people make more outrageous statements to get more attention.

At the end of the day if we all treat each other well and don't ridicule each other, every one is happy.

The Sth Africa issue is an interesting one.

We have a few friends who have migrated out here.

PArt of the problem for whites is that apartheid kept the blacks in poverty and uneducated.

Hence they now have a massive problem with poverty and a huge chunk who have no skills.

Black culture (and I say black for the purpose of the discussion) is completely different to white / western / entrepreneurial culture.

They are traditionally tribal and bow to the wisdom of the elders.

If there is corruption in the government, they tend to overlook it because the president is seen as a tribal chief.

Everything the government is doing is based on their traditional beliefs and culture.

Their hiring policy now makes it almost impossible for whites to get a job, even if they are a better candidate.

Hence their economy going backwards and crime rate and poverty increasing.

Now that are taking back land to give back t the black population. Once again, culturally speaking, owning land is seen as success and status.

so on the one hand they are giving back the l;and to the rightful owners, but on the flipside, these owners have no clue how to make the land productive.

so we have a situation emerging like Zimbabwe... on the road to famine.

HAving being dispossessed, the white farmers are leaving and taking their skills and business nouse with them.

In terms of killings, there are and will always be the ones who believe that the whites deserve to die because of past injustices. Like every other nation, there are extreme elements at all levels of power.

Growing up a wog in the 70's with olive skin and wearing glasses was pretty hard and you had to learn to defend yourself quickly. Most of the Aussie kids were from St Kilda which was blue collar and rough in those days. They all played cricket and footy to gather at St Kilda City.

Constant pranks,beatings and racial slurs were part of life. Being called Zaheer and Clive Lloyd... greasy wog and all that stuff.

So I can understand why hatred manifests itself. I don't condone it, but I do understand. Am I racist? Maybe in a sense. However I do accept people regardless of their background. I have Muslim and Jewish friends. I love this country.

I don't automatically follow Ferrari or Italy in soccer. I'm all in for Australia or nothing else.

I accept that there is good and bad in every race. It's human nature.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

"They're currently undergoing the worst genocide of the 21st century under the support of their government but we shouldn't take them because they're white? Do you not see your own hypocrisy?"


Hahahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh mate.

This has been thoroughly debunked and if you have any actual proof to the contrary you're welcome to post it.

I'd say Muslims in Myanmar might have something to say about the largest genocide in the 21st century but something tells me you wouldn't be interested in prioritising them.

 

[gringo2011]

"They're currently undergoing the worst genocide of the 21st century under the support of their government but we shouldn't take them because they're white? Do you not see your own hypocrisy?"


Hahahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh mate.

This has been thoroughly debunked and if you have any actual proof to the contrary you're welcome to post it.

I'd say Muslims in Myanmar might have something to say about the largest genocide in the 21st century but something tells me you wouldn't be interested in prioritising them.

Yeah, South African farmers get killed and the society is pretty lawless with lots of car jackings and some very dangerous areas but it's not all like that. I know someone who travels there to work for an aid project through his corporation. It's got nice safe parts too. I also have a cousin who was working for the UN in Africa and travels there regularly and has no safety provisions. It's not paradise but the idea that there is a genocide is outrageous and diminishes the word.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/white-farmers-south-africa/

 

[StFly]

So, end of the nominal work week for us normie folk and i just want to say;

The next motorcyclist to undertake me on a roundabout is going into a @$%^n tree, goddamn.

Thoroughly enjoy shitting myself as shit approaches from the blind spot during a turn you selfish arseholes.

 

[cartel]

So, end of the nominal work week for us normie folk and i just want to say;

The next motorcyclist to undertake me on a roundabout is going into a @$%^n tree, goddamn.

Thoroughly enjoy shitting myself as shit approaches from the blind spot during a turn you selfish arseholes.

I must be getting older because I think driving standards are just getting worse by the year.

 

[StFly]

I must be getting older because I think driving standards are just getting worse by the year.

I know I'm getting older since no one who knew the 90's is legally an adult this year and to me that is just scary.

Driving just highlights that some people understand how to drive, but fail in the actual action of driving.

 

[Sadsainter]

wow you really need to stop following Reclaim australia ...
51% of Islamic migrants would be happy with Sharia Law ?? did Blair Cottrell get those stats for you ? because that is just made up bullshit...
this is not a left vs right argument but if we are to go down that path so be it... the left side of thought i will admit do lean in favour of the minoritys but thats because we can see the minoritys being taken advantage of we can see that they are the easy target for the right and lets be honest they need the help more ... as for the Rights everything about them is manufactured bullshit this patriotic veiw is just a good guise to be a bell end and take a higher moral ground for being a bell end .. they flood their supporters with bullshit memes with made up "facts" and their supporters lap it up ... heres the thing if you need to lie or exagerate or tell a half truth to prove your point then theres a fair chance your point is wrong ...

as for Mark Knights cartoon i honestly dont believe it was drawn with a racist undertone at all but heres the thing once it was pointed out it was seen as being racist to a large portion of people he should have just said he was sorry for causing offence and that was not his aim with the cartoon , where its becoming an issue is the way he and his supporters are now defending the cartoon ... you mention his cartoons done of any of our Past Prime Ministers, Sports Stars, Trump, Hillary or what ever not seen as being offensive i think that is the whole damn point if society doesnt deem them offensive then they are not offensive if society does then it is offensive ... its all in the way it is recieved ...
if i call you a name and i call someone else that name if you find that offensive but the other person doesnt find it offensive the other person not finding it offensive doesnt make your offence of being called that unacceptable ... if i continue to call you that name you understandably will become upset by that especially if you tell me you find it offensive .. this is the situation here is no differant to calling adam Goodes an ape , to some they cant see how that is offensive to Goodes but Goodes most certainly finds it offensive so when he vocalises that he finds that offensive the right action is to appologise and not call him that again the wrong action is to call him a flog and that he should harden up and its not racist and everything is racist to you people blah blah blah ....
thats the main problem i have with the right its the fact that they thing their so called right to be hurtful to someone is more important than the just being nice to people in the first place ...

I’m sick of people speaking on behalf of those who they think are offended . Didn’t see too many black chunky women talking out about Serena Williams mainly white males and females on their high horse .
Stop being offended on behalf of others

 

[austinnn]

I’m sick of people speaking on behalf of those who they think are offended . Didn’t see too many black chunky women talking out about Serena Williams mainly white males and females on their high horse .
Stop being offended on behalf of others

Just back here to drop this off:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...toon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

The author, Gary Younge, is a chunky black man - does he count? I'm not sure of the body shape of the daughter of Martin Luther King, but it seems she's not happy about it either, is that ok with you or should I get confirmation of her weight first?

Gary Younge writes:


"If there is one thing more damning than the racist cartoon of Serena Williams published in Melbourne’s Herald Sun earlier this week, it’s the paper’s response to accusations of racism. And that’s saying something. Because the cartoon is bad. It’s Hattie McDaniel in Gone With the Wind,Mammy Two Shoes from Tom and Jerry, going out in the cotton fields with Topsy to eat watermelon, Aunt Jemima’s pancakes bad. It’s Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Pauline Hanson, Jeremy Clarkson after a bottle of scotch and a screening of Katie Hopkins’ documentary on white South African farmers bad.

"In the cartoon, Williams’ hair provides a bulbous, bloated, outsized frame for an enormous lolling tongue that’s bigger than her knee; nostril to nostril, her flat, expansive nose is roughly the size of her shoulder. It is not a caricature of Williams, whose lips, nose and tongue are not particularly pronounced and are rarely, if ever, remarked upon. It is a caricature of black people – and more specifically black women – that went straight through the editing process as though the 20th century had never happened."

Funny that the white South African thing came up here too.

 

[triggering bro]

I’m sick of people speaking on behalf of those who they think are offended . Didn’t see too many black chunky women talking out about Serena Williams mainly white males and females on their high horse .
Stop being offended on behalf of others

Being offended is a new sport. It’s whoever is offended the most that wins. Being offended on behalf of others shows that you are a really good person & it makes you feel really good about yourself. Let’s all get offended together.

 

[Yawkey way]

Just back here to drop this off:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...toon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

The author, Gary Younge, is a chunky black man - does he count? I'm not sure of the body shape of the daughter of Martin Luther King, but it seems she's not happy about it either, is that ok with you or should I get confirmation of her weight first?

Gary Younge writes:


"If there is one thing more damning than the racist cartoon of Serena Williams published in Melbourne’s Herald Sun earlier this week, it’s the paper’s response to accusations of racism. And that’s saying something. Because the cartoon is bad. It’s Hattie McDaniel in Gone With the Wind,Mammy Two Shoes from Tom and Jerry, going out in the cotton fields with Topsy to eat watermelon, Aunt Jemima’s pancakes bad. It’s Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Pauline Hanson, Jeremy Clarkson after a bottle of scotch and a screening of Katie Hopkins’ documentary on white South African farmers bad.

"In the cartoon, Williams’ hair provides a bulbous, bloated, outsized frame for an enormous lolling tongue that’s bigger than her knee; nostril to nostril, her flat, expansive nose is roughly the size of her shoulder. It is not a caricature of Williams, whose lips, nose and tongue are not particularly pronounced and are rarely, if ever, remarked upon. It is a caricature of black people – and more specifically black women – that went straight through the editing process as though the 20th century had never happened."

Funny that the white South African thing came up here too.

What is so exceptional about a questionable cartoon in a melbourne paper that triggers an Englishman who lives in France.

How much do you know about Melbourne, it’s demographics, politics etc it’s almost as if you think we’re some redneck white wonderland.

If you’re interested the ABS provides a great snapshot based on census data that will help you better understand the city. The city that makes up the bulk of Mark knights readership is in fact about as diverse as a city of 5 million can get with one ot two notable differences. Melbourne isn’t very black, we also have fewer indigenous people than other Australian cities. Victoria although roughly the size of Britain also doesn’t have any offical remote localities.

The Williams blow up at the open has caused a bit of a battle here, it’s of special interest as Melbourne is the home of the Australian open. Williams was criticised for her behaviour then out came her defenders running a sexist/feminist line of defence. When that failed to gain traction predictably out came the Ace in the pack. Racism, the card that’s guaranteed to shut down any dissension or debate.

Melburnians generally are not ignorant of US racial history or of the sensitivity of how African Americans are/were portrayed in that culture. The Victorian government and many local councils are very proactive in their support of ingenious culture and promoting it. Many would argue we’re overly sensitive to minorities with a robust legal framework that covers speech, depiction etc.

People with an axe to grind will write what they want, imo we choose to view Williams behaviour and depiction through the prism of our own experiences and culture with regard too but not bound by other countries politics.

Write and think what you will but Melbourne is a tolerant accepting multicultural city with education levels that exceed the national average. Australia is ranked by the OECD in the top 10 most educated countries in the world. Should I spend my time scouring the wires for examples of racial conflict or insensitivity based on Australian perceptions in Britain and France, perhaps the broader EU maybe the US.

Pot kettle, what’s the point?.

 

[Crusty Undies]

What is so exceptional about a questionable cartoon in a melbourne paper that triggers an Englishman who lives in France.

How much do you know about Melbourne, it’s demographics, politics etc it’s almost as if you think we’re some redneck white wonderland.

If you’re interested the ABS provides a great snapshot based on census data that will help you better understand the city. The city that makes up the bulk of Mark knights readership is in fact about as diverse as a city of 5 million can get with one ot two notable differences. Melbourne isn’t very black, we also have fewer indigenous people than other Australian cities. Victoria although roughly the size of Britain also doesn’t have any offical remote localities.

The Williams blow up at the open has caused a bit of a battle here, it’s of special interest as Melbourne is the home of the Australian open. Williams was criticised for her behaviour then out came her defenders running a sexist/feminist line of defence. When that failed to gain traction predictably out came the Ace in the pack. Racism, the card that’s guaranteed to shut down any dissension or debate.

Melburnians generally are not ignorant of US racial history or of the sensitivity of how African Americans are/were portrayed in that culture. The Victorian government and many local councils are very proactive in their support of ingenious culture and promoting it. Many would argue we’re overly sensitive to minorities with a robust legal framework that covers speech, depiction etc.

People with an axe to grind will write what they want, imo we choose to view Williams behaviour and depiction through the prism of our own experiences and culture with regard too but not bound by other countries politics.

Write and think what you will but Melbourne is a tolerant accepting multicultural city with education levels that exceed the national average. Australia is ranked by the OECD in the top 10 most educated countries in the world. Should I spend my time scouring the wires for examples of racial conflict or insensitivity based on Australian perceptions in Britain and France, perhaps the broader EU maybe the US.

Pot kettle, what’s the point?.

My issue is that it's only racist because she's black. I've said it before but, no one was angry with Mark Knight when he caricaturised Kim Jong un with typical Asian features, nor any of our white Prime Ministers with typically white features. But accentuate Serena Williams' butt, lips and nose and draw her throwing a tantrum and that's racist.

 

[Crusty Undies]

wow you really need to stop following Reclaim australia ...
51% of Islamic migrants would be happy with Sharia Law ?? did Blair Cottrell get those stats for you ? because that is just made up bullshit...
this is not a left vs right argument but if we are to go down that path so be it... the left side of thought i will admit do lean in favour of the minoritys but thats because we can see the minoritys being taken advantage of we can see that they are the easy target for the right and lets be honest they need the help more ... as for the Rights everything about them is manufactured bullshit this patriotic veiw is just a good guise to be a bell end and take a higher moral ground for being a bell end .. they flood their supporters with bullshit memes with made up "facts" and their supporters lap it up ... heres the thing if you need to lie or exagerate or tell a half truth to prove your point then theres a fair chance your point is wrong ...

as for Mark Knights cartoon i honestly dont believe it was drawn with a racist undertone at all but heres the thing once it was pointed out it was seen as being racist to a large portion of people he should have just said he was sorry for causing offence and that was not his aim with the cartoon , where its becoming an issue is the way he and his supporters are now defending the cartoon ... you mention his cartoons done of any of our Past Prime Ministers, Sports Stars, Trump, Hillary or what ever not seen as being offensive i think that is the whole damn point if society doesnt deem them offensive then they are not offensive if society does then it is offensive ... its all in the way it is recieved ...
if i call you a name and i call someone else that name if you find that offensive but the other person doesnt find it offensive the other person not finding it offensive doesnt make your offence of being called that unacceptable ... if i continue to call you that name you understandably will become upset by that especially if you tell me you find it offensive .. this is the situation here is no differant to calling adam Goodes an ape , to some they cant see how that is offensive to Goodes but Goodes most certainly finds it offensive so when he vocalises that he finds that offensive the right action is to appologise and not call him that again the wrong action is to call him a flog and that he should harden up and its not racist and everything is racist to you people blah blah blah ....
thats the main problem i have with the right its the fact that they thing their so called right to be hurtful to someone is more important than the just being nice to people in the first place ...

No actually I didn't get it from Blair Cottrell, I got it from a pew research source (linked just below) and other associated studies specifically about Muslims and immigration: https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/?amp=1

Specifically a graph about halfway down showing the percentage of a (large) sample of muslims in given countries in favour of instituting Sharia.

Also, for future references, snopes is not a reliable source of information given they don't actually research anything.

Finally, I'm not even right wing, I call out their religious dogma the exact same way I call out feminist, sjw and muslim dogma. It just happens to be that somehow, the far left has become allies with a religion that is antithetical to everything the left is supposed to stand for.

 

[Yawkey way]

My issue is that it's only racist because she's black. I've said it before but, no one was angry with Mark Knight when he caricaturised Kim Jong un with typical Asian features, nor any of our white Prime Ministers with typically white features. But accentuate Serena Williams' butt, lips and nose and draw her throwing a tantrum and that's racist.

Didn’t like the cartoon I’m not a fan of caricatures you could argue it’s inherently offensive.

What gets me is that there is a veritable catalogue of Williams portrayed in this style over a number of years all over the world, the only difference is that in this cartoon she’s loosing and angry which she was. Why isn’t that highlighted and discussed.

It also annoys me that if we view things differently than the views expressed in an opinion piece then we’re all racist simpletons who needed to be educated.

It’s a dangerous game to make assumptions based on little information, it will make a fool of you every time.

 

[Yawkey way]

No actually I didn't get it from Blair Cottrell, I got it from a pew research source (linked just below) and other associated studies specifically about Muslims and immigration: https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/?amp=1

Specifically a graph about halfway down showing the percentage of a (large) sample of muslims in given countries in favour of instituting Sharia.

Also, for future references, snopes is not a reliable source of information given they don't actually research anything.

Finally, I'm not even right wing, I call out their religious dogma the exact same way I call out feminist, sjw and muslim dogma. It just happens to be that somehow, the far left has become allies with a religion that is antithetical to everything the left is supposed to stand for.

Very strange bedfellows, interesting reading.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Didn’t like the cartoon I’m not a fan of caricatures you could argue it’s inherently offensive.

What gets me is that there is a veritable catalogue or Williams portrayed in this style over a number of years all over the world, the only difference is that in this cartoon she’s loosing and angry which she was. Why isn’t that highlighted and discussed.

It also annoys me that if we view things differently than the views expressed in an opinion piece then we’re all racist simpletons who needed to be educated.

It’s a dangerous game to make assumptions based on little information, it will make a fool of you every time.

It's the game they play though now. If you're not with them on one thing, you're against them on everything and a racist, sexist, bigot to boot.

 

[Crusty Undies]

"They're currently undergoing the worst genocide of the 21st century under the support of their government but we shouldn't take them because they're white? Do you not see your own hypocrisy?"


Hahahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh mate.

This has been thoroughly debunked and if you have any actual proof to the contrary you're welcome to post it.

I'd say Muslims in Myanmar might have something to say about the largest genocide in the 21st century but something tells me you wouldn't be interested in prioritising them.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/10013298

If 2000 muslims had been killed in one region in 20 years as a miniscule minority group do you think we'd be questioning whether or not it was racially charged and potentially genocidal? I don't think we would, the UN would be putting sanctions on their government already. Also if you haven't, I'd encourage you to watch a YouTube doco called Farmlands. Just because it's been systematic over 2 decades doesn't mean it's any less wrong.

How about if 2000 had been killed and their own government were telling the world it wasn't happening?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So, end of the nominal work week for us normie folk and i just want to say;

The next motorcyclist to undertake me on a roundabout is going into a @$%^n tree, goddamn.

Thoroughly enjoy shitting myself as shit approaches from the blind spot during a turn you selfish arseholes.

try driving in a place like Kuala Lumpur. You just have to ignore the bikes and assume they will try to avoid you. Otherwise you don't move.

 

[Yawkey way]

The Sth Africa issue is an interesting one.

We have a few friends who have migrated out here.

PArt of the problem for whites is that apartheid kept the blacks in poverty and uneducated.

Hence they now have a massive problem with poverty and a huge chunk who have no skills.

Black culture (and I say black for the purpose of the discussion) is completely different to white / western / entrepreneurial culture.

They are traditionally tribal and bow to the wisdom of the elders.

If there is corruption in the government, they tend to overlook it because the president is seen as a tribal chief.

Everything the government is doing is based on their traditional beliefs and culture.

Their hiring policy now makes it almost impossible for whites to get a job, even if they are a better candidate.

Hence their economy going backwards and crime rate and poverty increasing.

Now that are taking back land to give back t the black population. Once again, culturally speaking, owning land is seen as success and status.

so on the one hand they are giving back the l;and to the rightful owners, but on the flipside, these owners have no clue how to make the land productive.

so we have a situation emerging like Zimbabwe... on the road to famine.

HAving being dispossessed, the white farmers are leaving and taking their skills and business nouse with them.

In terms of killings, there are and will always be the ones who believe that the whites deserve to die because of past injustices. Like every other nation, there are extreme elements at all levels of power.

Growing up a wog in the 70's with olive skin and wearing glasses was pretty hard and you had to learn to defend yourself quickly. Most of the Aussie kids were from St Kilda which was blue collar and rough in those days. They all played cricket and footy to gather at St Kilda City.

Constant pranks,beatings and racial slurs were part of life. Being called Zaheer and Clive Lloyd... greasy wog and all that stuff.

So I can understand why hatred manifests itself. I don't condone it, but I do understand. Am I racist? Maybe in a sense. However I do accept people regardless of their background. I have Muslim and Jewish friends. I love this country.

I don't automatically follow Ferrari or Italy in soccer. I'm all in for Australia or nothing else.

I accept that there is good and bad in every race. It's human nature.

Haha yeah a lot of people tell me that about their time at the high school.

It’s a funny thing but it was touted as the most multicultural school back in the day and my guess is that about 90% of my mates were born overseas or first generation Aussie’s.

Not much fun for a lot of people I guess if it wasn’t one thing it was something else for many students, it was a pretty wild place when I first went there.

My daughters engaged to an Italian should I break out the jokes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Xenophobia[edit]
The post-apartheid period has been marked by numerous outbreaks of xenophobic attacks against foreign migrants and asylum seekers from various conflict zones in Africa. An academic study conducted in 2006, found that South Africans showed levels of xenophobia greater than anywhere else in the world.[212] The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) found that competition over jobs, business opportunities, public services and housing gave rise to tension among refugees, asylum seekers, migrants and host communities, identified as a main cause of the xenophobic violence.[213] South Africa received more than 207,000 individual asylum applications in 2008 and a further 222,300 in 2009, representing nearly a four-fold rise in both years over the levels seen in 2007. These refugees and asylum seekers originated mainly from Zimbabwe, Burundi, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda, Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia.

So the population of South Africa are nowhere near as tolerant as the general population of Australia.
It also doesn't progress the cause of anti-racism, when a significant proportion of the indigenous population behave in accordance to the preconceived stereotypes of those who are racist.

 

[Sadsainter]

Just back here to drop this off:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...toon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

The author, Gary Younge, is a chunky black man - does he count? I'm not sure of the body shape of the daughter of Martin Luther King, but it seems she's not happy about it either, is that ok with you or should I get confirmation of her weight first?

Gary Younge writes:


"If there is one thing more damning than the racist cartoon of Serena Williams published in Melbourne’s Herald Sun earlier this week, it’s the paper’s response to accusations of racism. And that’s saying something. Because the cartoon is bad. It’s Hattie McDaniel in Gone With the Wind,Mammy Two Shoes from Tom and Jerry, going out in the cotton fields with Topsy to eat watermelon, Aunt Jemima’s pancakes bad. It’s Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Pauline Hanson, Jeremy Clarkson after a bottle of scotch and a screening of Katie Hopkins’ documentary on white South African farmers bad.

"In the cartoon, Williams’ hair provides a bulbous, bloated, outsized frame for an enormous lolling tongue that’s bigger than her knee; nostril to nostril, her flat, expansive nose is roughly the size of her shoulder. It is not a caricature of Williams, whose lips, nose and tongue are not particularly pronounced and are rarely, if ever, remarked upon. It is a caricature of black people – and more specifically black women – that went straight through the editing process as though the 20th century had never happened."

Funny that the white South African thing came up here too.

High horse reply

 

[austinnn]

What is so exceptional about a questionable cartoon in a melbourne paper that triggers an Englishman who lives in France.

How much do you know about Melbourne, it’s demographics, politics etc it’s almost as if you think we’re some redneck white wonderland.

Ease up buddy, I'm an Aussie too - got a passport and everything. I lived in Melbourne for 8 fantastic years and loved every minute of it. Got a lot of love for the city and Victoria in general. And I agree it's probably the most tolerant place in Australia - or was when I was there. I haven't been there for a while but still got plenty of friends there, plus of course this forum which provides somewhat of an insight.

If you’re interested the ABS provides a great snapshot based on census data that will help you better understand the city. The city that makes up the bulk of Mark knights readership is in fact about as diverse as a city of 5 million can get with one ot two notable differences. Melbourne isn’t very black, we also have fewer indigenous people than other Australian cities. Victoria although roughly the size of Britain also doesn’t have any offical remote localities.

That summary is pretty much my recollection. I understand there are a few more black folks there who are African immigrants - really don't want to get into yet another debate about the positives of this as this has been done to death on this forum already.

Anyway this may be why sadsainter didn't hear of any "chunky black women" getting upset about the cartoon - there aren't many around. Even on the internet, if you stick to Aussie media you won't find much from a black perspective.

This is one of the points of the original article. We comment on a black person in a way that black people find offensive because we are either oblivious to or uncaring of those issues. Even if there were black people in the Herald Sun, the easy going tolerance of Australia is a world away from the tinderbox of race politics in the USA where every gesture is significant. Maybe that's a good thing, but in the age of global communication we ought to be a bit more responsible IMO.

The Williams blow up at the open has caused a bit of a battle here, it’s of special interest as Melbourne is the home of the Australian open. Williams was criticised for her behaviour then out came her defenders running a sexist/feminist line of defence. When that failed to gain traction predictably out came the Ace in the pack. Racism, the card that’s guaranteed to shut down any dissension or debate.

If Knight had just depicted Williams as a baby or something, the cartoon would have got zero negative commentary. He accidemtally or deliberately chose to evoke tribal Africa or the racist imagery of the early 20th century and got pulled up on it. To suggest this is just a cynical way of detracting from her poor behaviour is a pretty low act.

Melburnians generally are not ignorant of US racial history or of the sensitivity of how African Americans are/were portrayed in that culture. The Victorian government and many local councils are very proactive in their support of ingenious culture and promoting it. Many would argue we’re overly sensitive to minorities with a robust legal framework that covers speech, depiction etc.

Well not totally ignorant, but it's like reading about something in a book. The African American or even black perspective is missing from Melbourne conversations. But the very fact that Melbourne can have this conversation points to a great deal of intelligence and sensitivity towards this subject.

People with an axe to grind will write what they want, imo we choose to view Williams behaviour and depiction through the prism of our own experiences and culture with regard too but not bound by other countries politics.

That's exactly the point the article and I made initially. In a way, we may find American and Afro-American attitudes too sensitive but since the subject is them, it's always a good idea respect those sensitivities.

Write and think what you will but Melbourne is a tolerant accepting multicultural city with education levels that exceed the national average. Australia is ranked by the OECD in the top 10 most educated countries in the world. Should I spend my time scouring the wires for examples of racial conflict or insensitivity based on Australian perceptions in Britain and France, perhaps the broader EU maybe the US.

Pot kettle, what’s the point?.

Yeah not much point, and really don't see why you're being defensive. I didn't scour anything, I came across an article about the country/city I love which confirmed one of the negative points I saw/see in it. I think it could be better in this area. I sometimes wonder why it has to be this way. Sorry if you think Australia or Melbourne is perfect, or you don't have a problem with this negative. I'm sorry to say though being the national education leader just makes Melburnians better educated than the rest of Australia, is that really any surprise?

But like I said, I should have known better really coming on here with this stuff is always a recipe for frustration and ultimately is unproductive. Waste of time.

IIRC Yawkey, you're from the US yourself or have a history there. I've read stuff from you before and it's always interesting to take in your pov on issues like these, as you have first hand experience in that culture unlike myself and I try to remember that despite our different political leanings colouring our differing views.

 

[Crusty Undies]

That's exactly the point the article and I made initially. In a way, we may find American and Afro-American attitudes too sensitive but since the subject is them, it's always a good idea respect those sensitivities

I don't really have a problem with anything else you said. I don't even have a problem with most of this. Of course we should consider people's sensitivities to a degree. But at the end of the day, people are allowed to say what they want and the last thing we should be trying to do is limit what someone can or can't say, draw or do because it offends someone else. Just because someone is offended by something, doesn't mean that the thing said was inherently offensive, that's the point. They took offense to it. Good for them, now actually give a good reasonable point as to why they should be protected from being offended. Federer isn't protected from the media, neither is Nadal or Murray or Djokovic, McEnroe certainly wasn't when he spat the dummy so why should Serena?

 

[austinnn]

I don't really have a problem with anything else you said. I don't even have a problem with most of this. Of course we should consider people's sensitivities to a degree. But at the end of the day, people are allowed to say what they want and the last thing we should be trying to do is limit what someone can or can't say, draw or do because it offends someone else. Just because someone is offended by something, doesn't mean that the thing said was inherently offensive, that's the point. They took offense to it. Good for them, now actually give a good reasonable point as to why they should be protected from being offended. Federer isn't protected from the media, neither is Nadal or Murray or Djokovic, McEnroe certainly wasn't when he spat the dummy so why should Serena?

If anyone criticised Serena's tennis or habits on a personal level without the negative racial reference, I can't imagine anyone being offended. If that's all you think happened then you have missed the point of what I've written and the accompanying articles.

If we begin from a baseline of mutual respect, no problems remain. If I say something you find offensive, if I respect you, I apologise and make a mental note that I shouldn't repeat my faux pas. I may believe you're being too sensitive but at the end of the day I don't wish to cause offence. If I do wish to cause offence or I care more about my freedom of expression than your sensitivity, that's a different story.

If I walk around in public with no clothes on, I'm not hurting anyone. My freedom might make others uncomfortable and someone might object to my naked body at which stage if I respect society I put some clothes on. If I say "I demand to be free from your hangups about nudity" I'm taking a combative stance.

It's becoming more and more common to see people fighting back against what they see as a restriction on their freedom by offending people solely for the purposes of provocation. It's an interesting philosophical action, but doesn't say much for a person's humanity IMO.

If you've got a disabled child and I crack out a few disabled jokes or whatever in your company, if you get tense and ask me to stop, should I tell you to lighten up and accept my freedom of expression? Ricky Gervais was faced with this problem a few years ago and decided his freedom was more important than anyone's sensitivity. Would he care more if he was in Mark Knight's position? We may never know.

It benefits us all to have thick skins and take jokes at face value, but sometimes history hurts too much. Some Jews like Mel Brooks can laugh at Nazis, others find the mere mention of Nazis too much to stomach. They probably are being too sensitive, but if you respect them you have to respect their sensitivity.

You mentioned a little quote earlier in the discussion that I've thought more about. "Racism = prejudice + power." I think this idea is badly expressed and I think a lot of problems stem from us confusing the idea of racism.

Racism as I understand it is making a distinction based on race. This white person must be rich. This Chinese person must work hard. The assumption can be positive or negative. Anyone can be racist. But power does change the equation.

Few in the US have ever been denied work or killed by the authorities for being a "cracker" for example. No one has ever been institutionalised to believe that a cracker is LESS than human, and undeserving of human rights at any point in "white history", if such a thing exists. Even if white folks in Africa feel unloved or unwelcome, do you really think they will ever feel less than human? Why do you think that is?

The biggest problems a cracker has are not being invited to the best parties. So getting called "cracker" may hurt because of the fact a distinction is being made, but I don't feel the pain of my people being kept down. I may feel hated or even unwanted but if I ever felt threatened I could easily retreat into the white privilege I enjoy in western society. This doesn't mean its fine to call someone a cracker. It's still racism. But there is a difference.

The same is true of sexism. It's as sexist to be anti-man as it is to be anti-woman, but while men feel a bit sad that they are unfairly seen as misogynists, very few have had to deal with denial of access to anything. I doubt many reasonable men feel oppressed except for on a manufactured level as a reaction to feminism.


So it's not really sexism or racism itself that is the problem.

Mark Knight and Eddie McGuire weren't coming from a position of hate or oppression when they evoked racist imagery. It's still offensive to look at or hear. It causes black people to remember the days when white society viewed them as primates. Some black people wouldn't have cared, some would have felt that white society will never view them as equals or respect them while they still use imagery such as this.

I really don't know what I'm trying to say here, just my thoughts out loud and you've probably heard it all before, but I think the issue is and always has been respect.

But there are people saying that, there are people that still want reparations for the supposed crimes of people we're distantly related too. But funnily enough, other cultures have lost wars too. Do you see Christians approaching Egypt and complaining about reparations for stealing Alexandria?

Casual racism isn't oppression. Racism is bad, yes; but it's not oppressive to be racist, you're just being an arseh*le.

I'd argue everyone gets essentially a fair go now, actually I'd go one step further and say the only people who don't get a fair go anymore in Australia are white people and immigrants who aren't part of these "oppressed groups". Indigenous and TSI people get significantly lowered requirements for university entry than Caucasians, Asians, Americans, South Americans etc. Same goes for immigrants from African countries, to varying degrees; housing, food, education, welfare etc are a benefit that simply isn't available to white people in the same conditions.

Anyway, I think we can all agree we want the same thing which is that everyone gets equal opportunity in life. I completely agree, it seems we have different opinions regarding how exactly that would be achieved but that's fair enough.

There's some stuff there that I agree with.