Discussion Random Discussion

[VDS66]

Nuclear is actually one of the most expensive to set up, store and handle energy sources. It's also an infinite resource. Solar and wind are coming down so low now that it's cheaper to bring in than coal fired power if you are starting from scratch. At some point they will just have to store power on the premises in batteries to get around having to generate a base load.

Need to watch the Third Industrial Revolution in SBS if you haven't already.

France waste 40% of their fresh water keeping the nuke generators cool.

On another note if anyone had doubts about democracy being a myth, have a look at what the mining industry did when the mining tax was announced.

Problem you have is that fossil fuel companies are keeping the conservatives afloat with their donations. Hence the push for more coal generators.

Ironically, the Nats are pushing this as well, despite the fact that their constituents will suffer most from climate change.

Just shows how stupid people are when voting. Farmers should vote green if they have half a brain.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Nuclear is actually one of the most expensive to set up, store and handle energy sources. It's also an infinite resource. Solar and wind are coming down so low now that it's cheaper to bring in than coal fired power if you are starting from scratch. At some point they will just have to store power on the premises in batteries to get around having to generate a base load.

Batteries are not a viable solution.
At some point is the future, i'm told we need to act now.

https://www.fodors.com/community/mexico-and-central-america/rolling-blackouts-701697/

I don't want Australia to have rolling blackouts and therefore no viable industry.
Doubling the energy infrastructure costs does not help our competitiveness.

Canadians do very nicely on Nuclear.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Need to watch the Third Industrial Revolution in SBS if you haven't already.

France waste 40% of their fresh water keeping the nuke generators cool.

On another note if anyone had doubts about democracy being a myth, have a look at what the mining industry did when the mining tax was announced.

Problem you have is that fossil fuel companies are keeping the conservatives afloat with their donations. Hence the push for more coal generators.

Ironically, the Nats are pushing this as well, despite the fact that their constituents will suffer most from climate change.

Just shows how stupid people are when voting. Farmers should vote green if they have half a brain.

France sell a lot of their nuclear power to the "environmentally friendly " countries.
If you think what we do with our energy will have any measurable contribution to the global warming i'd be very interested in your maths.
Its like pissing on a bushfire. If you had half a brain you'd realize its all about feeling good about ourselves and we can't make a difference.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Need to watch the Third Industrial Revolution in SBS if you haven't already.

France waste 40% of their fresh water keeping the nuke generators cool.

On another note if anyone had doubts about democracy being a myth, have a look at what the mining industry did when the mining tax was announced.

Problem you have is that fossil fuel companies are keeping the conservatives afloat with their donations. Hence the push for more coal generators.

Ironically, the Nats are pushing this as well, despite the fact that their constituents will suffer most from climate change.

Just shows how stupid people are when voting. Farmers should vote green if they have half a brain.

Tying not to paraphrase Pauline Hanson, nuclear reactors generate enough heat to boil water. Not sure why it would need more cooling than our existing coal stations. Please explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France
Cooling[edit]

The Gravelines site on the North Sea between Calais and Dunkirk
The majority of nuclear plants in France are located away from the coasts and obtain their cooling water from rivers. These plants employ cooling towers to reduce their impact on the environment. The temperature of emitted water carrying the waste heat is strictly limited by the French government, and this has proved to be problematic during recent heat waves.[55]

Five plants, equaling 18 reactors are located on the coast:

• Gravelines Nuclear Power Station
• Penly Nuclear Power Plant
• Paluel Nuclear Power Plant
• Flamanville Nuclear Power Plant
• Blayais Nuclear Power Plant

These five get their cooling water directly from the ocean and can thus dump their waste heat directly back into the sea, which is slightly more economical.

 

[VDS66]

France sell a lot of their nuclear power to the "environmentally friendly " countries.
If you think what we do with our energy will have any measurable contribution to the global warming i'd be very interested in your maths.
Its like pissing on a bushfire. If you had half a brain you'd realize its all about feeling good about ourselves and we can't make a difference.

No point arguing with the ignorant.

Cheers.

 

[Verdun66]

Just listening to some old Cold Chisel stuff. Is Brandavino still a thing in Australia? Not that I ever drank any....

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Just listening to some old Cold Chisel stuff. Is Brandavino still a thing in Australia?

Dunno, but it would be a good nickname for Clavarino [emoji6]

 

[bergholt]

Batteries are not a viable solution.

I didn't know that. Why not?

 

[gringo2011]

Batteries are not a viable solution.
At some point is the future, i'm told we need to act now.

https://www.fodors.com/community/mexico-and-central-america/rolling-blackouts-701697/

I don't want Australia to have rolling blackouts and therefore no viable industry.
Doubling the energy infrastructure costs does not help our competitiveness.

Canadians do very nicely on Nuclear.

It's just too expensive to set up and storing spent fuel is always going to be an issue. Nuclear is not a great option. If we had put in a cohesive energy policy 10 years ago we wouldn't have dramatically grown our population at the same time as putting in very little increase in generation. No one wants to invest in anything at the moment because the fossil fuel and renewables companies both can't work out what direction the country wants to go with.

Abbott has been the biggest wrecker in Australian politics ever. He's done more damage to his country and party than any single figure ever. He'll go down as one of Australian histories great dickheads.

 

[gringo2011]

France sell a lot of their nuclear power to the "environmentally friendly " countries.
If you think what we do with our energy will have any measurable contribution to the global warming i'd be very interested in your maths.
Its like pissing on a bushfire. If you had half a brain you'd realize its all about feeling good about ourselves and we can't make a difference.

It is okay as far as global warming goes because it's low carbon but the safety and cost are poor. It's also a finite resource so if everyone starts using nuclear then it runs out some point. They need to get to a point where battery storage is cheap and effective enough to store overnight amounts of power. Then solar becomes a very good option and the most logical along side wind and wave generation.

All countries need to act on reducing carbon as well. That's a shit excuse, we pollute a lot for the size of our population. You can't demand everyone else does something then don't act yourself. China and India both invest in renewable energy because it makes sense economically as well.

 

[Yawkey way]

It is okay as far as global warming goes because it's low carbon but the safety and cost are poor. It's also a finite resource so if everyone starts using nuclear then it runs out some point. They need to get to a point where battery storage is cheap and effective enough to store overnight amounts of power. Then solar becomes a very good option and the most logical along side wind and wave generation.

All countries need to act on reducing carbon as well. That's a shit excuse, we pollute a lot for the size of our population. You can't demand everyone else does something then don't act yourself. China and India both invest in renewable energy because it makes sense economically as well.

This global warming debate has been a crock of shit from the start because as per usual the great UN expect the US to bank roll everything at a disproportionate rate while allowing two giants in China and India to cut special deals.

How the hell can you be a nuclear armed nation with a space program and a massive military budget yet claim special status. We are a flea on an elephants arse, that’s the reality. That doesn’t mean we can turn our backs on global warming however it does beg the question, why would we ruin our economy rushing to make a symbolic gesture.

I watch for signs of new technology as it relates to battery storage etc and alternative forms of energy generation pretty closely, it’s an opportunity to invest and we’re looking pretty sick if things don’t change. I have seen plenty of development going on in battery tech and lots of proposals in relation to energy generation. What’s clear is we’re not getting out of this without spending some serious cash.

This is an opportunity imo for some nation building infrastructure projects like the snowy mountains was, hydro, tidal, nuclear, gas, wind and solar all need to be investigated but clearly no base load no chance. So we run the old existing tech until a viable ulternative is available and we pay for it and own it. We have an absolute genius for cocking things up, we’re already at the point according to an expert report where we can’t feed ourselves without tearing up the environment yet we have an immigration intake that completely ignores our situation, genius.

Wouldn’t it be great if our politicians and leaders actually concentrated on the big problems at hand instead of the navel gazing crap. Australia the US and Britain just to name 3 have come up with some genius ideas over the years and in times of war have achieved incredible things in terms of new inventions and production. I have every confidence that things can be turned around if we can generate the same level of urgency.

 

[gringo2011]

This global warming debate has been a crock of shit from the start because as per usual the great UN expect the US to bank roll everything at a disproportionate rate while allowing two giants in China and India to cut special deals.

How the hell can you be a nuclear armed nation with a space program and a massive military budget yet claim special status. We are a flea on an elephants arse, that’s the reality. That doesn’t mean we can turn our backs on global warming however it does beg the question, why would we ruin our economy rushing to make a symbolic gesture.

I watch for signs of new technology as it relates to battery storage etc and alternative forms of energy generation pretty closely, it’s an opportunity to invest and we’re looking pretty sick if things don’t change. I have seen plenty of development going on in battery tech and lots of proposals in relation to energy generation. What’s clear is we’re not getting out of this without spending some serious cash.

This is an opportunity imo for some nation building infrastructure projects like the snowy mountains was, hydro, tidal, nuclear, gas, wind and solar all need to be investigated but clearly no base load no chance. So we run the old existing tech until a viable ulternative is available and we pay for it and own it. We have an absolute genius for cocking things up, we’re already at the point according to an expert report where we can’t feed ourselves without tearing up the environment yet we have an immigration intake that completely ignores our situation, genius.

Wouldn’t it be great if our politicians and leaders actually concentrated on the big problems at hand instead of the navel gazing crap. Australia the US and Britain just to name 3 have come up with some genius ideas over the years and in times of war have achieved incredible things in terms of new inventions and production. I have every confidence that things can be turned around if we can generate the same level of urgency.

China and India are out performing the US by a fair margin in renewables. Most modern economies are moving Toit despite the climate because it's become cheaper to build and will continue to do so. Leading the tech means they have a commodity too.

As far as politicians go the 4 year election cycle and the deliberate move towards combat politics has just about stalled debate on anything that looks like it's considered left or right wing policy.

Solar and wind are no brainers in Oz, and should be obvious policy. Daylesford/ Hepburn a small town put in one wind generation tower and it runs the whole town and puts energy back into the grid. It was community owned project.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/technology/china-us-clean-energy-solar-farm/index.html
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018...-spent-on-clean-energy-in-2017-china-spent-3/

 

[Yawkey way]

China and India are out performing the US by a fair margin in renewables. Most modern economies are moving Toit despite the climate because it's become cheaper to build and will continue to do so. Leading the tech means they have a commodity too.

As far as politicians go the 4 year election cycle and the deliberate move towards combat politics has just about stalled debate on anything that looks like it's considered left or right wing policy.

Solar and wind are no brainers in Oz, and should be obvious policy. Daylesford/ Hepburn a small town put in one wind generation tower and it runs the whole town and puts energy back into the grid. It was community owned project.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/technology/china-us-clean-energy-solar-farm/index.html
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018...-spent-on-clean-energy-in-2017-china-spent-3/

Yes china has added more capacity than the US in 2017 and is the major exporter of solar panels but that was never the point.

My point relates to the Paris agreement and the different targets placed on countries for both financial input and reduction targets. It’s all there in the key points of the Paris agreement clearly placing some countries at an economic disadvantage.

I know Leonard’s/Hepburn quiet well, it’s hardly a model for a major city. A tiny wealthy holiday resort is not Melbourne and the best part of $20 million spent on those two turbines is a bit like putting forward tiny house projects as the answer to Melbournes population boom. I’m more inclined to see that as an indulgent waste of money more than a shining example to other communities.

Until we have a reliable source of base load power for our cities and businesses then there is no viable alternative for us imo, you certainly won’t find it in wind or solar for a city of this size. So what is it other than an expensive duplication that still requires base load generation from existing coal fired plants.

Yeh our politicians are a problem at present but you can look past them to other countries to see how they are dealing with the problem. Elon musk made a lot of noise here and elsewhere and I saw that they were going full speed ahead in a massive plant to produce batteries, it’s a loser imo as better options already exist. I just see this as a watch this space situation at present things are changing fast but clearly we can’t afford another broadband debacle where we spend a fortune for a second rate obsolete system.

I’m watching with interest but I still think it’s going to take a big spend and some drastic changes to the way we live.

 

[Human Person]

Which one of you is this?

 

[mightymalaka]

Which one of you is this?

lol
Can't bloody keep away from the paparazzi, they follow me everywhere!

Just had the munchies man and was gracious enough to share with the community
But that strange dude with no body but just an arm took a couple of my chicky ****s
You'd think the ungrateful f#cker would give me a bite of his Maxi Bun!

Had me losing my perspicacity he did! Just wanted one bite from His Maxi Bun maaaan!
It's a Dog eat Dog world out there brothers and sisters!

 

[gringo2011]

Yes china has added more capacity than the US in 2017 and is the major exporter of solar panels but that was never the point.

My point relates to the Paris agreement and the different targets placed on countries for both financial input and reduction targets. It’s all there in the key points of the Paris agreement clearly placing some countries at an economic disadvantage.

I know Leonard’s/Hepburn quiet well, it’s hardly a model for a major city. A tiny wealthy holiday resort is not Melbourne and the best part of $20 million spent on those two turbines is a bit like putting forward tiny house projects as the answer to Melbournes population boom. I’m more inclined to see that as an indulgent waste of money more than a shining example to other communities.

Until we have a reliable source of base load power for our cities and businesses then there is no viable alternative for us imo, you certainly won’t find it in wind or solar for a city of this size. So what is it other than an expensive duplication that still requires base load generation from existing coal fired plants.

Yeh our politicians are a problem at present but you can look past them to other countries to see how they are dealing with the problem. Elon musk made a lot of noise here and elsewhere and I saw that they were going full speed ahead in a massive plant to produce batteries, it’s a loser imo as better options already exist. I just see this as a watch this space situation at present things are changing fast but clearly we can’t afford another broadband debacle where we spend a fortune for a second rate obsolete system.

I’m watching with interest but I still think it’s going to take a big spend and some drastic changes to the way we live.

With countries like China producing so much crap for the world market and having taken on manufacturing for everyone else, they need a bit more of a break in targets and also coming from a third world economy means they are trying to met targets that western countries already have a head start on. They need to allow developing countries a bit of slack so they take up renewables I guess.

Hepburn is a way of showing that small scale power generation is possible was my point. We always think of scale and centralised power generation like we have with coal but it doesn't have to be. I heard they are saying with micro craft they think they will be able to send tiny microchips into Alpha- Centauri for very little money and at a huge speed and low cost. We always think you have todo things a certain way because they always were but sometimes there are others ways.


It is one of those things with technology, the longer you wait the cheaper it gets but at he moment just changing policy so business and enterprise have certainty would be a start. I had a friend who worked for a wind turbine company that left Australia because they gave up through lack of policy direction and certainty.

I was speaking to a fried who works for an Australian science body last night. He was saying the government demanded his department make money through commercial arrangements, they have a cap on hiring new public servant staff so can't build any more capacity. They hire outside the department high priced consultants and management staff to generate business they don't have capacity to handle. It sounds like some comedic farce. They are then punished for failing to increase but cutting funding.

 

[bergholt]

We always think you have todo things a certain way because they always were but sometimes there are others ways.

Solar panels on every roof and a decent battery in every backyard would make for a very solid decentralised power grid. No "baseload" required. And impossible to disrupt on a large scale.

(I haven't done any of the research, this is just second hand from a friend who works in that industry.)

 

[gringo2011]

Solar panels on every roof and a decent battery in every backyard would make for a very solid decentralised power grid. No "baseload" required. And impossible to disrupt on a large scale.

(I haven't done any of the research, this is just second hand from a friend who works in that industry.)

It's towers and government infrastructure that is the only real issue but as batteries get smaller it will go that way anyway. Wind is a good back up for solar too. Baseload is something that will only be needed for a decade or so.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I didn't know that. Why not?

It's practically impossible to store lots of energy in one place longterm.

 

[gringo2011]

It's practically impossible to store lots of energy in one place longterm.

With solar and wind you don't need long term storage. It's basically a big phone battery for when it's dark or the wind dies down. It makes sense that at some point most houses will have a battery strapped to the external wall. Tesla do a nice looking one but there are other better cheaper ones already. Soon they will be smaller though.

Interestingly a lot of money is being invested in better toilet systems. Bill Gates is funding a massive project on turning turds into fertiliser and limiting the need for massive water usage. The US still use a full toilet bowl of fresh water for every flush. Converting to Aussie low volume bowls would be a decent start there.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No point arguing with the ignorant.

Cheers.

you don't understand any of the science . so you simply claim that someone who doesn't agree with you is ignorant.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With solar and wind you don't need long term storage. It's basically a big phone battery for when it's dark or the wind dies down. It makes sense that at some point most houses will have a battery strapped to the external wall. Tesla do a nice looking one but there are other better cheaper ones already. Soon they will be smaller though.

Interestingly a lot of money is being invested in better toilet systems. Bill Gates is funding a massive project on turning turds into fertiliser and limiting the need for massive water usage. The US still use a full toilet bowl of fresh water for every flush. Converting to Aussie low volume bowls would be a decent start there.

An aluminium Smelter would run for 6 minutes on the huge battery that Elron is installing in South Australia.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's just too expensive to set up and storing spent fuel is always going to be an issue. Nuclear is not a great option. If we had put in a cohesive energy policy 10 years ago we wouldn't have dramatically grown our population at the same time as putting in very little increase in generation. No one wants to invest in anything at the moment because the fossil fuel and renewables companies both can't work out what direction the country wants to go with.

Abbott has been the biggest wrecker in Australian politics ever. He's done more damage to his country and party than any single figure ever. He'll go down as one of Australian histories great dickheads.

A lot of people don't realize how "small" the volume of spent fuel is.
You could backfill it in the uranium mine without any issue.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

China and India are out performing the US by a fair margin in renewables. Most modern economies are moving Toit despite the climate because it's become cheaper to build and will continue to do so. Leading the tech means they have a commodity too.

As far as politicians go the 4 year election cycle and the deliberate move towards combat politics has just about stalled debate on anything that looks like it's considered left or right wing policy.

Solar and wind are no brainers in Oz, and should be obvious policy. Daylesford/ Hepburn a small town put in one wind generation tower and it runs the whole town and puts energy back into the grid. It was community owned project.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/technology/china-us-clean-energy-solar-farm/index.html
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018...-spent-on-clean-energy-in-2017-china-spent-3/

Yeah gringo and when its night and the wind aint blowin, no-one notices the massive metropolis of Hepburn Daylsford sucking it out of the coal fired grid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I didn't know that. Why not?

Because it costs a shitload to store a minute amount of energy.
Cashed up households might do it, but it makes no sense for the poor or a business.