Discussion Random Discussion

[Highlander35]

Gades play their first home game tommorow, if you miss supporting the Red, White and Black at Etihad, why not support the Red, White and Black at Etihad?

 

[hayes]

You need to fight each other at the soccer because it's so painfully slow and that was apparently an exciting match.

I'm convinced that's why fans try and belt each other at soccer games. Even try watching an AFL match for two hours with no goals and see if you don't feel like punching someone.

 

[Nutsngum]

I'm convinced that's why fans try and belt each other at soccer games. Even try watching an AFL match for two hours with no goals and see if you don't feel like punching someone.

I think the entire penalty and offside system makes this true as well. Imagine watching your game and your team kicks a fantastic game... oh it was offiside SORRY SUCKERS! or an opponent gets gifted a penalty from an otherwise perfect tackle and now has a near perfect chance for a game deciding goal.

Soccer's entire rule set works against it and frankly the only reason its so popular is that you cannot get simpler then a ball and a couple of sticks/jumpers to be the goals so everyone can play it no matter how poor you pretty much are. Same reason why footy is popular up on the aboriginal communities where they dont have much but they still damn well play footy.

 

[Hepp86]

so that's why billions across the globe watch the world cup, and play soccer?

There is room for both sports. Local soccer doesn't have enough talent in it yet to be as appealing to everyone...but watch some EPL games on TV or in a pub. Some of the talent on show is absolutely phenomenal, and when the game is end-to-end with lots of chances being created that's when its the best game in the world. It also helps to choose a team and become passionate about them, any sport is helped if you can barrack/whinge/shout with your fellow supporters

Different codes, played in different seasons. I think we can manage to support both

 

[From 45]

Ignorance is at an all time high in this thread when it comes to soccer. Poor sods

 

[St Kilda Death]

Im a fan of marks, tackles, goals and touchdowns.

Soccer has none, none and miniscule amounts.

Dont care what the rest of the world thinks either.
Stick your boring wimps game.

Glad to help prove your point From 45

 

[Simple Jack]

so that's why billions across the globe watch the world cup, and play soccer?

There is room for both sports. Local soccer doesn't have enough talent in it yet to be as appealing to everyone...but watch some EPL games on TV or in a pub. Some of the talent on show is absolutely phenomenal, and when the game is end-to-end with lots of chances being created that's when its the best game in the world. It also helps to choose a team and become passionate about them, any sport is helped if you can barrack/whinge/shout with your fellow supporters

Different codes, played in different seasons. I think we can manage to support both

No, soccer is popular because as has been said before, it's the simplest a game can get and therefore available for poor people. That's the whole reason it got so popular to begin with and overtook the original 'Football', Rugby Football.

 

[Defacto]

A league decent atmosphere absolutely shite to watch... even soccer fans agree with that statement

 

[Barrels]

What the tapdancing **** are we debating football v soccer in this thread?!

Jesus.

 

[Defacto]

What the tapdancing **** are we debating football v soccer in this thread?!

Jesus.

Fair point...

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Ive tried getting into soccer and rugby. For the sake of offseason sanity. But i just cant. I find both sports boring.. i dont mind nba and i can watch nfl but thats about it for team sports.. afl is the best most exciting game in the world. Its not because i understand it better. Those other sports just dont have the same dynamics of afl.
Ok you guys can get back on topic now : /

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Don't see how either of you - or any of us - can speak for all those ex-members. How would you know? Maybe 20 of them tops I'd guess.

Personally, the club has really erred in not researching this. During my time as a lapsed member I didn't get any communication from the club asking why, despite keeping the same address since my last membership. If I worked for their membership dept, that's the first thing I'd be doing. I'd want to know.

I didn't sign up between 2011 and 2014 inclusive and I'll tell you why, but I'm only one person. Maybe there should be a Why did you stop being a Saints Member? thread with no reproaching and so on, just so we'd all have a better idea.

I'll preface this by saying though I'm not poor, I don't have a lot of disposable income, especially for something the wife would consider so unimportant. Don't judge her, she's French. We live in France, well away from the coalface as Gringo has said.

First, I thought the clubs service to its members wascashsy. Disorganised, half-arsed and unimaginative. Everything i wanted to do was eithrr too hard or impossible. Mainly via the club website. I sent letters, emails but no reply. As a member, I felt more like a donor.

Also, this coincided with Duthiegate and then later Lovettgate, then Stalkergate, then later Dwarfgate and all this before the various scandals down the years, Joey & Milne, Gehrig pissing, Butterss and Thomas public feud, etc. I'd had it with supporting a bunch of sketchy unprofessional bogans who were trapped in a bygone era. Still happy to lend considerable moral support but not my hard earned cash.

At the same time, I'd financially supported the club when we were really struggling for members and due to the consistent finals and so on, we seemed to be doing alright member wise for a few years, and it seemed that after years of paddling around with water wings, the Saints were finally able to swim, so I thought it was the right time to stop my membership.

After things went **** up with Watters and Co, I said to myself that I'd help out again but they had to show us that they'd learnt their lessons and they were capable of sorting their shit out in a manner befitting a 21st century professional sports club in the top echelon of a national competition.

After the impressive off season this time last year, I renewed. II wanted to thankFinnis and the team for their work. I'm happy to do so and happy to be back in the family. That's my story. I realise its particular, being that I'm an overseas member, but there it is.

I urge other lapsed members to judge the club on our present, not our past.

So you didn't renew your membership because of some lying physchopath? Someone who made shit up about our players, even said she was pregnant with twins, when she wasn't? And then a guy we SACKED, immediately for alleged rape, who never played a game for the club, who was eventually found not guilty?

Please explain to me where the club or players did anything to deserve you not renewing your membership? As far as the circus dwarf goes, he loved the PR and still lives off it, look him up on Google, it's the best PR he could ever have gotten. He is a professional idiot who loves using his dwarfism for money making, day in, day out.

Also, what did Joey ever do? NOTHING.

Butters sacked Thommo as the whole club would have walked, funnily enough he came back in the form of Scott Waters, but that's another story. We then employed the second best coach we have ever had in Lyon, or Lyin as some like to refer to him as.

So sketchy unprofessional bogans? Wow. IMO, if you aren't with us in the tough times, we don't want you in the good times, it's also known as being a fair weather supporter.

I've been a member since 1979, and trust me, there weren't many members through that era.

Nothing personal, just my opinion.

 

[majortinkle]

So you didn't renew your membership because of some lying physchopath? Someone who made shit up about our players, even said she was pregnant with twins, when she wasn't? And then a guy we SACKED, immediately for alleged rape, who never played a game for the club, who was eventually found not guilty?

Please explain to me where the club or players did anything to deserve you not renewing your membership? As far as the circus dwarf goes, he loved the PR and still lives off it, look him up on Google, it's the best PR he could ever have gotten. He is a professional idiot who loves using his dwarfism for money making, day in, day out.

Also, what did Joey ever do? NOTHING.

Butters sacked Thommo as the whole club would have walked, funnily enough he came back in the form of Scott Waters, but that's another story. We then employed the second best coach we have ever had in Lyon, or Lyin as some like to refer to him as.

So sketchy unprofessional bogans? Wow. IMO, if you aren't with us in the tough times, we don't want you in the good times, it's also known as being a fair weather supporter.

I've been a member since 1979, and trust me, there weren't many members through that era.

Nothing personal, just my opinion.

I think you've proved that the reasons need to be given without reproach as Austinnn suggested.....

The idea is a good one - let bf sainters let the club know the sort of reasons they lapse or don't sign up in the first place. Your response is why we might struggle to get others posting those reasons.

Family of 4 all members myself for the record.

 

[soups1982]

Also, what did Joey ever do? NOTHING.

mate i wouldn't be using this line in any of your rebuttal. Whilst he may not have been proven guilty, there is no doubt in my mind that both of them acted in a highly immoral and disgraceful way, however one of them was fortunate enough to put their head down and given the public persona they keep it mostly washed over them in the court of public opinion.

I can totally understand why people did not find St Kilda worth investing in over that period.

Fortunately for St Kilda I have blind faith, and do not have a family yet, and whilst I will always keep my membership, I can't always guarantee it'll be a social club or reserved seat as it is now.

 

[George]

Please be aware that I have given Matt the link to this thread. Lets try keep that rubbish out. Lets just forgive and forget, the club has never been in a very stable financial position and this is the only time I can ever think of where we can make it happen if we all stick fat. I'm glad people are coming back to the club to sign as members - shows your loyalty either way. If you guys know of anyone else that's lapsed over the years get 'em on board, the only way we win a premiership/be successful is if we are strong financially, and the only way that WE can help is signing up.

 

[austinnn]

So you didn't renew your membership because of some lying physchopath? Someone who made shit up about our players, even said she was pregnant with twins, when she wasn't? And then a guy we SACKED, immediately for alleged rape, who never played a game for the club, who was eventually found not guilty?

Please explain to me where the club or players did anything to deserve you not renewing your membership? As far as the circus dwarf goes, he loved the PR and still lives off it, look him up on Google, it's the best PR he could ever have gotten. He is a professional idiot who loves using his dwarfism for money making, day in, day out.

Also, what did Joey ever do? NOTHING.

Butters sacked Thommo as the whole club would have walked, funnily enough he came back in the form of Scott Waters, but that's another story. We then employed the second best coach we have ever had in Lyon, or Lyin as some like to refer to him as.

So sketchy unprofessional bogans? Wow. IMO, if you aren't with us in the tough times, we don't want you in the good times, it's also known as being a fair weather supporter.

I've been a member since 1979, and trust me, there weren't many members through that era.

Nothing personal, just my opinion.

I ain't no fairweather supporter, just a fairweather member. In fact I spent most of my time as a lapsed member being an active cheerleader for the club on Saintsational, spreading the good vibes and battling against the negative doomsayer element. I just drew the line at contributing financially until I saw the club become better at engaging its community and understanding the power of publicity.

Not sure if you can or did read more than the dog whistle of Duthiegate Milne etc, but there was a whole lot more to it than that. Have another read and try to cut the emotion out, might help you understand.

I'll refrain from repeating the reasons, but if it helps deal with the anger, the primary reason was the poor interaction with the club and poor return for international members. Now at least you get a year's subscription to the AFL Streaming site, far from perfect but at least decent now.

The scandals were just the straw that broke this camels back. Yes, sketchy unprofessional bogans, i stand by that, so keep your "wow". No one asked Sam Gilbert to fraternise with women at a clinic, no one asked him to take photos of his mate's *****, no one asked Joey to allegedly let a mate have a lend of the girl he picked up, or to hire a dwarf for the end of season party, or to publicly criticise him after his teammate had tried to light his clothes on fire. I dont know the full story to any of this, and that's not the reason why I lapsed but it didn't make me want to reconsider either. At least the club has learnt its lessons, the players take negative publicity seriously now. Finnis knows the damage things like that do.

Also, let me just say that I can't claim to know the strategy of the club regarding turning away members, but I'm pretty sure the club is grateful for my current and past membership, fairweather or otherwise. However if that isn't the case, can someone from the club please tell me because I can buy something a hell of a lot more useful with that money in the future.

I'm happy to contribute now, because finally we seem like a serious club not the football version of Pissweak World. I'm still terrified that once Finnis, Baines Richo or any of our other big hitters get poached we'll go back to being crap again, so hopefully plans are in place to stop this happening.

Finally Brian, congratulations on the length of your loyalty, it really is huuuuge. In 1979 I didn't even really know what Australia was, just a place that Rolf Harris talked about occasionally.

 

[Periphery]

Please be aware that I have given Matt the link to this thread. Lets try keep that rubbish out.

Imo mods should move all the shit to another thread and keep this one as something worth reading.

 

[Kildonan]

Imo mods should move all the shit to another thread and keep this one as something worth reading.

I tend to feel that the club can learn more from genuine fans explaining what it took to disenfranchise them, than from fans who have stuck fat through thick and thin. Sure it is obvious that we should avoid controversy, but here we are talking about fans who still support the club but chose not to renew their membership. There are a lot who still have not returned to buying memberships. I also remember another international supporter who simply wished to make a donation but found it difficult to arrange this via the club.

 

[austinnn]

no one asked him to take photos of his mate's *****

Lol. I can't believe I feel into the ol' misplaced apostrophe trap.

To be honest, if my mate had more than one ****, I'd be tempted to take a photo too.

 

[Periphery]

I tend to feel that the club can learn more from genuine fans explaining what it took to disenfranchise them, than from fans who have stuck fat through thick and thin. Sure it is obvious that we should avoid controversy, but here we are talking about fans who still support the club but chose not to renew their membership. There are a lot who still have not returned to buying memberships. I also remember another international supporter who simply wished to make a donation but found it difficult to arrange this via the club.

Except that whole thing could just be a one sentence suggestion:

The club should survey lapsed members to figure out why they initially stopped and what is keeping them from coming back.

That's useful and worthy of consideration. Paragraphs of crap about old drama is useless as not only does it not suggest anything that the club already doesn't know, but isn't even a representative sample of the reasons for lapsed members. All it does is shit up the thread.

 

[Kildonan]

I moved a few posts from the Meeting with Matt F thread to here

 

[gringo2011]

Ignorance is at an all time high in this thread when it comes to soccer. Poor sods

My 10 year old loves soccer but he has a BF from school who's parents are big Victory fans, they were at Etihad a couple of years ago, when someone in their cheer squad picked up a flare and threw it back into a pack of kids. A 12 year old girl got hit in the face and caught her hair on fire and burnt her eyes. The Ambos thought she could lose her sight in one eye. His family were nearly hit...they don't go any more. My son is scared of flares now and despite loving his A league wants to leave if any flare goes of near him. He's a tough kid not some timid wall flower, he plays sport like Lenny and runs head first at anything.

We went to that derby last week. The Victory supporters come in marching like a protest line with police escort menacing the street. They then go in an walk a lap inside pushing and jostling. We walked into them after leaving the snack bar despite wearing no supporter wear myself they swore at my 10 year old pushed us both who were against the wall trying to avoid them and one at the back elbowed me for no reason and then grabbed my box of $7 dollar chips and threw them on the ground. These guys are **** wits of the highest order.

We then had 2 Victory supporters sit behind us in a City zone where we had my sons soccer club kids all there. They swore the whole time calling all the City player s$#@!c c$#@s, homos, girls etc, then telling the city fan squad they were all $#@ etc. They were trying to start a fight in an opposition cheer squad surrounded by children. I won't rush back to a game now. Most of the other games we have been to have been in a nearly empty stadium so have been very well behaved but that's it for the derby.

 

[RoundCubic]

My 10 year old loves soccer but he has a BF from school who's parents are big Victory fans, they were at Etihad a couple of years ago, when someone in their cheer squad picked up a flare and threw it back into a pack of kids. A 12 year old girl got hit in the face and caught her hair on fire and burnt her eyes. The Ambos thought she could lose her sight in one eye. His family were nearly hit...they don't go any more. My son is scared of flares now and despite loving his A league wants to leave if any flare goes of near him. He's a tough kid not some timid wall flower, he plays sport like Lenny and runs head first at anything.

We went to that derby last week. The Victory supporters come in marching like a protest line with police escort menacing the street. They then go in an walk a lap inside pushing and jostling. We walked into them after leaving the snack bar despite wearing no supporter wear myself they swore at my 10 year old pushed us both who were against the wall trying to avoid them and one at the back elbowed me for no reason and then grabbed my box of $7 dollar chips and threw them on the ground. These guys are **** wits of the highest order.

We then had 2 Victory supporters sit behind us in a City zone where we had my sons soccer club kids all there. They swore the whole time calling all the City player s$#@!c c$#@s, homos, girls etc, then telling the city fan squad they were all $#@ etc. They were trying to start a fight in an opposition cheer squad surrounded by children. I won't rush back to a game now. Most of the other games we have been to have been in a nearly empty stadium so have been very well behaved but that's it for the derby.

Would be national news if the flare incident happened at a rugby or afl game

 

[austinnn]

My 10 year old loves soccer but he has a BF from school who's parents are big Victory fans, they were at Etihad a couple of years ago, when someone in their cheer squad picked up a flare and threw it back into a pack of kids. A 12 year old girl got hit in the face and caught her hair on fire and burnt her eyes. The Ambos thought she could lose her sight in one eye. His family were nearly hit...they don't go any more. My son is scared of flares now and despite loving his A league wants to leave if any flare goes of near him. He's a tough kid not some timid wall flower, he plays sport like Lenny and runs head first at anything.

We went to that derby last week. The Victory supporters come in marching like a protest line with police escort menacing the street. They then go in an walk a lap inside pushing and jostling. We walked into them after leaving the snack bar despite wearing no supporter wear myself they swore at my 10 year old pushed us both who were against the wall trying to avoid them and one at the back elbowed me for no reason and then grabbed my box of $7 dollar chips and threw them on the ground. These guys are **** wits of the highest order.

We then had 2 Victory supporters sit behind us in a City zone where we had my sons soccer club kids all there. They swore the whole time calling all the City player s$#@!c c$#@s, homos, girls etc, then telling the city fan squad they were all $#@ etc. They were trying to start a fight in an opposition cheer squad surrounded by children. I won't rush back to a game now. Most of the other games we have been to have been in a nearly empty stadium so have been very well behaved but that's it for the derby.

Sad story dude, I have nothing but contempt for those w***ers that give football/soccer fans a bad name. Acting like the friggin SS, they should be wearing swastikas. Don't blame you at all for steering clear. Sadly, a lot of Aussie football/soccer fans have a hardcore cultural cringe which compels them towards zealotry, similar to how a lot of born again religious people are often far more fundamental than the average. They think they are ultras or the Old Firm or some such shite. Twats, the lot of them.

 

[austinnn]

Christmas is a time for reflection, and in this occasion I had reason to consider the discovery of music and how its changed with MP3s.

I remember when I was a kid being mesmerised by an album cover in my family home: Bing Crosby's White Christmas. I don't have many memories if that time, somehow that one made it through. Every time I hear the music, I think of that cover.

My son won't have the same memory sadly, as my version of the album is a faceless virtual folder on my multimedia hard drive. The text of the artist and title come up on the TV and its identical to that of all the other music.

I got into so much music via the interesting cover art, and seeing a thumbnail photo on a screen does not compare to a big cardboard square you can hold, plus in some cases you have a lyric sheet you can hold to learn the words made by the artists, not some 80% accurate rendition that some 18 year old Ukrainian guitar student has posted online.

I could use my old records but they're boxed up in storage in Thornbury. MP3s are cheap and convenient but music is so much more than the music, and there is definitely still a place for those old 30cm cardboard squares in our lives.