Discussion Random Discussion

[Periphery]

I think Sydney has had 2 or so level crossings for more than a decade now ( maybe none ).
God they are archaic.

Sydney got rid of theirs during the great depression using money given to the states to stimulate the economy. The Victorian government built the great ocean road with theirs.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Did they deliberately sign contracts two weeks before an election where the opposition platform was to scrap the project costing 700 mill for nothing?

The only bullshit is that the Liberals who did arent in jail.

As for the desal plant. Thank god there is never going to be another draught in Victoria. I am sure you wont use the water from it as a protest when that happens.

Yes whilst not disagreeing with you ,but was it the best option available.
This is probably the question we all ask of governments and most times it is no .
I say this because the alternative was to place the desal plant on a ship and pump water in to many reservoirs over 3 months or so and then onto the next capital city or even Asia.
Seems to be amuch better use of the dollars ,but what would I know I call myself the Master Strokesman .

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because the next logical conclusion would be if people are working remote why not use resources that are far far far cheaper without the protections and rights employees get here

In other words $$$

Yes.
Wonder why most of the call center's are overseas?
Its even less of an issue when you don't need them to talk to your customers.
And as i understand it there are some pretty good software coders in India.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Desal plant was buying a hyundai for the cost of a BMW and giveing the surplus cash to organized crime.
Shit even Brack's helicopter flight to wonthaggi was theatrical bullshit.

 

[Joffaboy]

The Desal plant was buying a hyundai for the cost of a BMW and giveing the surplus cash to organized crime.
Shit even Brack's helicopter flight to wonthaggi was theatrical bullshit.

Tell us about Turnbulls NBN why dont you?

Deliberately destroyed the quality of vital infrastructure to appease their master Murdoch so it wouldnt impact Foxtel.

Turnbull is a traitor and slave to an American in Murdoch

 

[pebblesofsand]

When the issue of the desal plant is raised I always wonder what people would have said of the govt if they had taken a punt and just crossed their fingers and hoped the drought would break and Melbourne wouldn't actually run out of water.

Because that was the situation - if the drought persisted for another 12 months or so Melbourne would have run out of water.

I'm sure everyone would have loved it if the Premier had of said - jeez bad luck Melbourne - I was certain it would rain.

Hindsight!!

 

[StCicatriz]

Yes.
Wonder why most of the call center's are overseas?
Its even less of an issue when you don't need them to talk to your customers.
And as i understand it there are some pretty good software coders in India.

I'd describe them as cheap not necessarily good. They don't really care about their work either

 

[freebloke]

When the issue of the desal plant is raised I always wonder what people would have said of the govt if they had taken a punt and just crossed their fingers and hoped the drought would break and Melbourne wouldn't actually run out of water.

Because that was the situation - if the drought persisted for another 12 months or so Melbourne would have run out of water.

I'm sure everyone would have loved it if the Premier had of said - jeez bad luck Melbourne - I was certain it would rain.

Hindsight!!

There were other cheaper and more environmentally friendly options, eg water piping, dams, etc.

The obvious choice was to build another dam. Dams are an attractive investment option due to the low kL cost of water storage and transfer from catchment areas. It was arguably the Government’s failure to invest in dams following the construction of the Thompson Dam in 1983, which contributed towards the water shortages and restrictions during the most recent drought period.

....

It is clear that against other water infrastructure investment options the decision to build the Wonthaggi Desalination Plant was unwise, particularly given the environmental and financial costs of the plant.

http://economicstudents.com/2015/08/was-desalination-the-right-option-for-victoria/

 

[Plumber66]

i work in IT, the problem with that is it opens the door for outsourcing in a big way. which btw i'm yet to see a good out sourced developer. they're horrid, but companies dont look at the quality or the long term damage. its all short term thinking

Jobs are being outsourced anyway. It's nor just about call centres.

Technology is developing at a rapid rate and you need the infrastructure to support it.

Unfortunately too many people are still stuck in the industrial revolution, which has long gone.


You won't fix manual labour with broadband, but you can sure as hell use it to create a more flexible work place.

Raising living standards is all about improved productivity. If people cannot grasp that concept then there really is no point continuing the discussion.

Efficient broadband Luke efficient transport infrastructure improves productivity. As does a healthy and well educated workforce.

 

[Plumber66]

Tell us about Turnbulls NBN why dont you?

Deliberately destroyed the quality of vital infrastructure to appease their master Murdoch so it wouldnt impact Foxtel.

Turnbull is a traitor and slave to an American in Murdoch

At least you get it!

The current lot have done zero since 2013. How anyone apart from xenophobes and flat earth Neanderthals can defend them is a joke.

 

[35Saints35]

It's a shame the government doesn't turn to some random guys
( some surely unemployed due to the amount of time spent on here ) to solve the states/ countries problems . C'mon straya listen to the little guys

 

[SaintsSeptember]

When the issue of the desal plant is raised I always wonder what people would have said of the govt if they had taken a punt and just crossed their fingers and hoped the drought would break and Melbourne wouldn't actually run out of water.

Because that was the situation - if the drought persisted for another 12 months or so Melbourne would have run out of water.

I'm sure everyone would have loved it if the Premier had of said - jeez bad luck Melbourne - I was certain it would rain.

Hindsight!!

When was the desalination plant finished? If the drought had persisted a year of so more. We wouldn't have run out of water.
If we did run out , you don't suddenly build a 5 year plant.
Why did we pay a massive amount more than a desal plant normally costs?
Why were criminals involved?

Yes it was worth building one. BUT it wasn't something that suddenly happened so we need to jump in a helicopter as if that's how you select a site.
( fly me over victoria boy wonder, i'll tell you where to build our plant ).

The helicopter flight by Bracks was grandstanding nonsense.

Buying meter inspectors "smartcars" was also a stupid waste of money.
Overpriced and not particularly economical for their size.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'd describe them as cheap not necessarily good. They don't really care about their work either

Maybe some.
You can't say that about all of them any more than you can describe all of Australia as thong wearing Bogans.
AND
If you get for times as much for your dollar, many people will ignore the quality. Like they do with clothes and cars and powertools etc etc etc

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This was never publicised but :
https://www.melbournewater.com.au/w...es/environmental-flows-for-thomson-river.aspx

I always found it interesting that during 2006, for political reasons, we decided that we had to artificially enhance the Thompson river so that it flowed more than normal, even though the inflow was pathetic. It was 45% full at the start of 2006. 16% full by 2009. Our water was close to 60% full at the start of that year , it was 40% at the end of the year. at its worst it was 34%.
https://www.melbournewater.com.au/waterdata/waterstorages/Pages/Storages-over-the-years.aspx

Environment and all that... what would have happened to the poor river if there was no dam?
The dam was full in 1996 and somehow they ( we) pissed half of it away in a few short years. Somehow we used around 1/4 of the water capacity in one year.

 

[Nutsngum]

I'm whinging at the Andrews Govt for spending all that money on level crossings to save 139 lives in 10 years? (source The Age June 2014). Yeah that's a good use of public money isn't it mate!!! How about infrastructure spend on something that will benefit more of the 5.5m people that live in this city, (not 139), such as major roads that will ease congestion in Melbourne? It was suggested by those in the know that the best way to do that was some kind of east west link rather than the level crossing idea which is what Labour was pushing for. There has essentially been little or no infrastructure spend by either Govt in the last 15 years or so. The traffic has got worse and worse due to a lack of......wait for it.....infrastructure to ease congestion around Melbourne. How about using the money for more mental health services and hospitals and schools - especially in some of the new growth corridors in outer Melbourne?

"In fifteen years, Melbourne’s population has grown by a third, adding more than a million people and congesting roads and public transport alike. Yet the Bureau’s figures show that over the same period, under Liberal and Labor governments, Victoria has invested less in building new infrastructure than any other state, as a share of national expenditure. Even Tasmania, with far smaller needs, invests far more of its resources in building new transport infrastructure." Inside Story October 2015

"The state’s leaders love to declare Melbourne the world’s most liveable city. They seem not to realise that Melbourne works because of the investments made by nineteenth-century governments, the Hamer government’s determination to build the underground rail loop, and governments of both sides investing to create a road network that worked until recently. Each side always has big plans, but the bottom line is what they are actually investing – and that it far too little to keep Melbourne liveable." Inside Story October 2015

"the list includes the now shelved Melbourne East West Link. This project, which was halted by the election of the Andrews Labor government in Victoria, is rated by IA (Infrastructure Australia) as one of the “high priority initiatives”. The Guardian Feb 2016

So yeah all that money to save 139 lives in 10 years - really 14 lives per year? We have an obsession in this country to try to save people from themselves. You cant save everyone and you certainly cant fix stupid. It's like the inane idea that we can get the road death tally to zero. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN unless we reduce speed limits to 10km per hour which also isnt going to happen. It's called taking personal responsibility.

Funny that the Govt is finally going to review the bail/parole laws which is exactly what I and others were calling for. Apparently the police asked 2 or 3 times permission to ram the c*nt before all the carnage happened but were denied by someone higher up. Again what I said earlier - the police are trying to do a good job but are hamstrung by incompetent higher-ups and Govt regulation and the fact that they could be sued at a drop of a hat by a deranged criminal becuase the police are only trying to do their job.

Our population is expected to double from the expected 6m this year to 9.5m in 2046. Infrastrusture Victoria 30 year Draft

Things have to change Joop.

Look you have your ideas - this everything is awesome attitude which I strongly disagree with - it is as simple as that. You go your way and I will go mine....

You must be ****ing kidding? Level crossings absolutely **** traffic flow for miles around. We would have lost a hundred times the amount spent in wasted time and fuel from people sitting in their cars waiting for ****ing boom gates.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The rail system really needs a total rethink.
The stations are all built too close to major roads, ( 19th century thinking ).
There are very few park and ride options.
If there was a good fast rail available before i got onto citylink, i'd use it to get to the city. Darling station is ideally located next to the Monash, but is virtually inaccessible. Surely an upgrade to this station with an overpass and an adequate ( ie BIG ) parking system would be incredibly popular. ( a combined parking/ticketing system would be great ).
We have too many stations, so close together that all the people can easily walk to the next station, but these accumulate to make a trip from the growing outer suburbs an epic journey, and not so many express trains. ( once again 19th century thinking ).
Yes it would be bad for a few people if some of the smaller stations had less service, but the alternative is to provide rail for all the people who "can't" walk to a station.
Lived in Perth in the northern suburbs for a year, it had a new section of rail. 22km out and it was a breeze. The train went down between the freeway lanes and you sat in the carriage and looked out at the cars banked up as you zoomed into the city. Something like 6 stops, all serviced by huge carparks and bus interchanges.

 

[gringo2011]

Victoria's most disgraceful sell out was the Fisherman's bend development. We sold a huge parcel of public land to guys who paid huge party donations and they were sold the land at a bargain price. The government is then going to pay more for some of the land to supply their infrastructure for more than they paid for the original land. We are literally going to supply their development with trams, schools etc and to give them that we have to buy the scraps of land back from them that was already ours. And we will pay more for the scraps than the entire land pocket. In other countries people would be in jail.

 

[gringo2011]

The rail system really needs a total rethink.
The stations are all built too close to major roads, ( 19th century thinking ).
There are very few park and ride options.
If there was a good fast rail available before i got onto citylink, i'd use it to get to the city. Darling station is ideally located next to the Monash, but is virtually inaccessible. Surely an upgrade to this station with an overpass and an adequate ( ie BIG ) parking system would be incredibly popular. ( a combined parking/ticketing system would be great ).
We have too many stations, so close together that all the people can easily walk to the next station, but these accumulate to make a trip from the growing outer suburbs an epic journey, and not so many express trains. ( once again 19th century thinking ).
Yes it would be bad for a few people if some of the smaller stations had less service, but the alternative is to provide rail for all the people who "can't" walk to a station.
Lived in Perth in the northern suburbs for a year, it had a new section of rail. 22km out and it was a breeze. The train went down between the freeway lanes and you sat in the carriage and looked out at the cars banked up as you zoomed into the city. Something like 6 stops, all serviced by huge carparks and bus interchanges.

Governments sell the land that was already owned around them. We had enough to build car parking but were selling it all off once it got valuable. People still want to get to areas near major shops and that's usually where the major roads are. We can't afford to put the trains under ground because to sell off our assets they had to convince people that debt was bad. If we stuck trains in tunnels the land above could be used as parking. Extending train lines to outer suburbs and making sure you future proof by keeping a line and station land would help too.

 

[pebblesofsand]

There were other cheaper and more environmentally friendly options, eg water piping, dams, etc.

http://economicstudents.com/2015/08/was-desalination-the-right-option-for-victoria/

I see the proposed solution was "The obvious choice was to build another dam."

Build a dam in a time of drought - that's bound to solve a water supply issue. It was acknowledged at the time that a dam on the Mitchell couldn't have been built (and filled) in time to solve the impending problem plus new dams don't create new water, they take it from existing users.

For the Mitchell River that meant catastrophic environmental impacts on the Gippsland Lakes.

The desal plant may be a bit over the top but even with it built at its existing size it will only provide enough extra water to get Melbourne to 2036 and that a whole raft of water saving initiatives needed to be implemented to guarantee water supply past that time.

Easiest and cheapest way to expand the water supply for Melbourne - cut the daily use of water. Was down to 155 litres during the drought when restrictions were in place - now back up to 240 litres (just so people can water their gardens at the worst possible time - during the day)

 

[pebblesofsand]

Victoria's most disgraceful sell out was the Fisherman's bend development. We sold a huge parcel of public land to guys who paid huge party donations and they were sold the land at a bargain price. The government is then going to pay more for some of the land to supply their infrastructure for more than they paid for the original land. We are literally going to supply their development with trams, schools etc and to give them that we have to buy the scraps of land back from them that was already ours. And we will pay more for the scraps than the entire land pocket. In other countries people would be in jail.

Yep - given his "efforts" at Fishermans Bend and Ventnor I cannot believe that Matthew Guy is still a politician let alone a leader of a party.

Should have been jailed for his incompetence alone.

 

[freebloke]

I see the proposed solution was "The obvious choice was to build another dam."

Build a dam in a time of drought - that's bound to solve a water supply issue. It was acknowledged at the time that a dam on the Mitchell couldn't have been built (and filled) in time to solve the impending problem plus new dams don't create new water, they take it from existing users.

For the Mitchell River that meant catastrophic environmental impacts on the Gippsland Lakes.

The desal plant may be a bit over the top but even with it built at its existing size it will only provide enough extra water to get Melbourne to 2036 and that a whole raft of water saving initiatives needed to be implemented to guarantee water supply past that time.

Easiest and cheapest way to expand the water supply for Melbourne - cut the daily use of water. Was down to 155 litres during the drought when restrictions were in place - now back up to 240 litres (just so people can water their gardens at the worst possible time - during the day)

Funnily, the desal plant was made oversized and given exemptions from EPA regulations. So much so for environmental friendliness.

A dam that probably would have generated some hydroelectric capability, vs a desal plant which uses electricity all the time even on standby (90MW)- yep, I can see which one is more environmentally friendly. Oh, did I tell you that desal plant discharges all the salinity and chemicals back in the sea?

And I don't want any crap about the so called wind farms proposed to offset the desal plant. Because they wouldn't have needed to be built or could have been used to offset other energy usage. Not to mention the energy consumption required to build the wind farms in the first place.

Funnily, I don't see the current government doing anything to cut water usage. Just order the damn thing from the desal and justify it being in place by a previous labor government... yes siree. At this rate, 2036 water savings measures would be needed in 2036 anyway.

 

[freebloke]

Yep - given his "efforts" at Fishermans Bend and Ventnor I cannot believe that Matthew Guy is still a politician let alone a leader of a party.

Should have been jailed for his incompetence alone.

And what about the

Smart meters unnecessary spend (spend billions NOW vs benefit of 2 billion over 20 years) - NET NEGATIVE return per Victorian government website itself

http://www.smartmeters.vic.gov.au/a...s/4.-analysis-of-costs-and-benefits-2008-2028


desal plant - the most expensive option
Myki - cost overrun disaster (500m tender vs 1.5 billion actual cost) - i.e. 1 billion down the tube for what was working already. Great investment there!
Police Link database upgrade - Failed and closed down with millions down the tube


Great world-changing efforts there. Who are you jailing for those!

 

[pebblesofsand]

Free Bloke - you seem a bit confused about my motives. The discussion was about the desal plant/Fishermans Bend not about which political party is the most incompetent.

If you want to discuss the incompetence of political parties - it will happen without me because I can't split them.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

A dam that probably would have generated some hydroelectric capability, vs a desal plant which uses electricity all the time even on standby (90MW)- yep, I can see which one is more environmentally friendly. Oh, did I tell you that desal plant discharges all the salinity and chemicals back in the sea?

And I don't want any crap about the so called wind farms proposed to offset the desal plant. Because they wouldn't have needed to be built or could have been used to offset other energy usage. Not to mention the energy consumption required to build the wind farms in the first place.

Funnily, I don't see the current government doing anything to cut water usage. Just order the damn thing from the desal and justify it being in place by a previous labor government... yes siree. At this rate, 2036 water savings measures would be needed in 2036 anyway.[/QUOTE]

I reckon there was a clause in the agreement that the government must order its first lot of water within a certain time frame ,and this time frame is now up .
Also intresting to see who is the biggest users of water are .MCG, Rod Laver Arena ,Queen Victoria Market

 

[crasha301]

Free Bloke - you seem a bit confused about my motives. The discussion was about the desal plant/Fishermans Bend not about which political party is the most incompetent.

If you want to discuss the incompetence of political parties - it will happen without me because I can't split them.

+1

Both party's waste millions.


And some people wonder why trump won.