Discussion Random Discussion

[CALL ME SNAKE]

We get a bit of Australia bashing on this thread.
Which is fair enough , all countries have both good and bad points in their governments and in their history.
To have change for the good it has to start with a bit of heated discussion .

I work with a lot of blokes from China,Afghanistan and a few other countries from that region of the world .
From what i hear from these men Australia is still one hell of a lucky country.
Just sayin

 

[sunny3193]

Completely off topic.

Why, when I refresh the Saints AFL website page on my iPad, the page is refreshed so I’m looking at the page bottom not the page top?

Is it me?
Is it crap website software?

Is it annoying?

Yes.

 

[STK2020]

If we become a republic so be it .
I just dont want to change our flag and i know the calls will come to change it because the union jack on our flag is the British Empires symbol of Dependency, also the Commonwealth Star on the flag makes it a target of republicans.
Our flag is unique, it tells our story .

 

[MacMum]

I have no wish to become a republic.....not because of any loyalty to the Monarchy, who are only figureheads anyway, and don't have a say in the way we run our country.....but because I like our Parlimentary system. No one man can make decisions.

With a republic, it is a lot easier to end up with a dictatorship somewhere down the line. Imagine if we got a genuine ratbag like Trump or Putin, then there are the other ratbags around the world heading republics..e.g Kim FlungDung.. or the guy just disposed in Zimbabwe after ruling with a cruel iron fist for about 35 years.

Extreme examples I know, but we really do have a good governing system here. I would hate to risk that just because we don't like the Monarchy.

The flag I don't mind, but if it changes it should be for ALL of us not a blend of either british flag or aboriginal flag. A complete new one....as the song says We Are One, so all work under the one flag.

..anyway, that's my bit. I'm not going to protest or demonstrate or create havoc for my views, but just how I see things from an old chook like me.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I have no wish to become a republic.....not because of any loyalty to the Monarchy, who are only figureheads anyway, and don't have a say in the way we run our country.....but because I like our Parlimentary system. No one man can make decisions.

With a republic, it is a lot easier to end up with a dictatorship somewhere down the line. Imagine if we got a genuine ratbag like Trump or Putin, then there are the other ratbags around the world heading republics..e.g Kim FlungDung.. or the guy just disposed in Zimbabwe after ruling with a cruel iron fist for about 35 years.

Extreme examples I know, but we really do have a good governing system here. I would hate to risk that just because we don't like the Monarchy.

The flag I don't mind, but if it changes it should be for ALL of us not a blend of either british flag or aboriginal flag. A complete new one....as the song says We Are One, so all work under the one flag.

..anyway, that's my bit. I'm not going to protest or demonstrate or create havoc for my views, but just how I see things from an old chook like me.

Only a Baby Boomer would say something like that
Lets get her

 

[gringo2011]

We get a bit of Australia bashing on this thread.
Which is fair enough , all countries have both good and bad points in their governments and in their history.
To have change for the good it has to start with a bit of heated discussion .

I work with a lot of blokes from China,Afghanistan and a few other countries from that region of the world .
From what i hear from these men Australia is still one hell of a lucky country.
Just sayin

I don't think any one is bashing Australia. You can still love the way your country is but acknowledge the mistakes you made in the past. To me the indigenous debate is the same as if China invaded us tomorrow and every year celebrated our national day on the day they came. It would piss plenty of Aussies off. You can't change history but you can say we ****ed up and we're sorry, lets make it a different day and we can make it about everyone enjoying the good stuff we do.

To me the changes for the worse are all imported ideas that haven't worked overseas. We have always been pretty socialist in the way we look out for each other and keep each other form getting big headed. We had a pretty good system for a long time and the people who want to sell everything off and replicate the neo- liberal ideal of free markets and deregulation haven't got the people's interests at heart.

 

[gringo2011]

I have no wish to become a republic.....not because of any loyalty to the Monarchy, who are only figureheads anyway, and don't have a say in the way we run our country.....but because I like our Parlimentary system. No one man can make decisions.

With a republic, it is a lot easier to end up with a dictatorship somewhere down the line. Imagine if we got a genuine ratbag like Trump or Putin, then there are the other ratbags around the world heading republics..e.g Kim FlungDung.. or the guy just disposed in Zimbabwe after ruling with a cruel iron fist for about 35 years.

Extreme examples I know, but we really do have a good governing system here. I would hate to risk that just because we don't like the Monarchy.

The flag I don't mind, but if it changes it should be for ALL of us not a blend of either british flag or aboriginal flag. A complete new one....as the song says We Are One, so all work under the one flag.

..anyway, that's my bit. I'm not going to protest or demonstrate or create havoc for my views, but just how I see things from an old chook like me.

I reckon you can legislate to avoid that. It would allow us to remodel the law and update some of the irrelevant stuff in the Westminster system. I have royal heritage and can see monarchy is a dead concept for modern times. It's become a historical sideshow rather than anything meaningful. Most royals would rather be out of the spotlight than trapped in a Truman Show life that they didn't ask for.

 

[cartel]

Asahi and Sushi bento box for dinner tonight. Nice hot weather food.

 

[VDS66]

I assume that everyone is aware that an Australian president would be a ceremonial figurehead and not actually run the place?

 

[VDS66]

I don't think any one is bashing Australia. You can still love the way your country is but acknowledge the mistakes you made in the past. To me the indigenous debate is the same as if China invaded us tomorrow and every year celebrated our national day on the day they came. It would piss plenty of Aussies off. You can't change history but you can say we ****** up and we're sorry, lets make it a different day and we can make it about everyone enjoying the good stuff we do.

To me the changes for the worse are all imported ideas that haven't worked overseas. We have always been pretty socialist in the way we look out for each other and keep each other form getting big headed. We had a pretty good system for a long time and the people who want to sell everything off and replicate the neo- liberal ideal of free markets and deregulation haven't got the people's interests at heart.

We are still ahead of a lot of places. But that doesn't mean we should become complacent and head down a path that is detrimental to future generations.

At the moment, it's getting ugly with too many drinking the globalisation kool aid, and the multinationals dictating the narrative.

Things are out of control. For all this growth and technology, you have question if we are really better off.

The worst idea we have imported is the user pays ideology from the USA.

 

[sunny3193]

If you ever need to know how far ahead we are of other places:

1. Visit the DMV in South Carolina, or any of the other 49 states. Compared to VicRoads: Neanderthal.
2. Use or rely on US Mail. Compared to Australia Post: Prehistoric.
3. Try posting a parcel in London if you haven’t got the sticky tape to seal it. Compared to Australia Post: woeful.

And they are but three that sprang to mind.
When I’m required to use either Australia Post or VicRoads, I make a point of telling the staff how good they are in comparison to overseas equivalents, particularly US or UK. The staff need to know.

 

[VDS66]

If you ever need to know how far ahead we are of other places:

1. Visit the DMV in South Carolina, or any of the other 49 states. Compared to VicRoads: Neanderthal.
2. Use or rely on US Mail. Compared to Australia Post: Prehistoric.
3. Try posting a parcel in London if you haven’t got the sticky tape to seal it. Compared to Australia Post: woeful.

And they are but three that sprang to mind.
When I’m required to use either Australia Post or VicRoads, I make a point of telling the staff how good they are in comparison to overseas equivalents, particularly US or UK. The staff need to know.

The fact that you can grab a glass of water from the tap and live puts us ahead of 96% of other countries...

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

We get a bit of Australia bashing on this thread.
Which is fair enough , all countries have both good and bad points in their governments and in their history.
To have change for the good it has to start with a bit of heated discussion .

I work with a lot of blokes from China,Afghanistan and a few other countries from that region of the world .
From what i hear from these men Australia is still one hell of a lucky country.
Just sayin

i agree but really why be a good country when we could be a great country?? we have all the tools at our disposal to be the envy of the world yet we seem happy to be the lap dog of the US and China... we have the opportunity to be innovators and world leaders but instead we are one of the last western countrys to allow SSM and we have internet speeds slower then some developing nations

sure Australia is the lucky country but damn we could be so very much better if we didnt have nuffnuff leaders

 

[StFly]

I find "Invasion" a poor, inflammatory term specifically used to try to provoke an emotive result. I don't believe it helps any cause to use it.

Considering we have copies of legal documents in which certain individuals were put on boats to here under duress and armed guards, and there are documents and paintings in museums which denote Aboriginal sentiment to Europe at the time was tantamount to xenophobic racism since about 1600 or whenever the Dutch came here;

Yes, invasion is a hoot made by stupid people who should know better and probably have ancestors who poked spears at my ancestors and are actually descendants of arseholes and channeling their force.

Funny that only one of us is celebrating the fact that we're here, and it isn't them huh?

i agree but really why be a good country when we could be a great country?? we have all the tools at our disposal to be the envy of the world yet we seem happy to be the lap dog of the US and China... we have the opportunity to be innovators and world leaders but instead we are one of the last western countrys to allow SSM and we have internet speeds slower then some developing nations

sure Australia is the lucky country but damn we could be so very much better if we didnt have nuffnuff leaders

It's a trade off for being where we are as much as it is nuff nuff leaders, as even if we did proceed with PC's which we invented, or mass produced the ute for example and fueled manufacturing, we still would have issues getting it to places which have already established things, or can make things cheaper and faster and reach the rest of the world quicker simply due to location and population.

It is also for this reason that we are still where we are, as you have the 1970's and beyond trying to make do in 2017 which just doesn't work, and no one wants to deal with the pain that will be short term to update and create.

Because I work at a multinational manufacturer based in the USA with branches in the EU and Asia, as soon one thing comes out, production is already moving to how to make it better, how to make it smaller, feel better, run smoother, run cooler, longer, do the intended job quicker and etc then 4 years later you get a product that was made a year prior, then tested and broken several times to make sure it works under duress and the intended audience can use and like it, and the cycle continues.

Instead, let's get USA utes and muscle cars and import PC's from Asia because it's easier, we'll have to move it by truck since over 30 degrees and the train might not be working in several places due to heating issues.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't think any one is bashing Australia. You can still love the way your country is but acknowledge the mistakes you made in the past. To me the indigenous debate is the same as if China invaded us tomorrow and every year celebrated our national day on the day they came. It would piss plenty of Aussies off. You can't change history but you can say we ****** up and we're sorry, lets make it a different day and we can make it about everyone enjoying the good stuff we do.

To me the changes for the worse are all imported ideas that haven't worked overseas. We have always been pretty socialist in the way we look out for each other and keep each other form getting big headed. We had a pretty good system for a long time and the people who want to sell everything off and replicate the neo- liberal ideal of free markets and deregulation haven't got the people's interests at heart.

Hmm Maybe they should have negotiated with the collective governement of NSW to allow people to immigrate into what was until then a very sparsely populated place. Would that have worked?

People like the Nation thats been forged. Don't need to wallow in guilt over it all the time.

 

[Nutsngum]

The fact that you can grab a glass of water from the tap and live puts us ahead of 96% of other countries...

Not in Adelaide you cant.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Considering we have copies of legal documents in which certain individuals were put on boats to here under duress and armed guards, and there are documents and paintings in museums which denote Aboriginal sentiment to Europe at the time was tantamount to xenophobic racism since about 1600 or whenever the Dutch came here;

Yes, invasion is a hoot made by stupid people who should know better and probably have ancestors who poked spears at my ancestors and are actually descendants of arseholes and channeling their force.

Funny that only one of us is celebrating the fact that we're here, and it isn't them huh? .

i dont quiet get what you are trying to say here are you trying to say the Aboriginal people were racist to the settlers ?
the term invasion is pretty spot on the settlers forcefully came and took the land from the people already here its no differant to say Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in the 90's ... the fact is in that era that was totally acceptable and you are right the actions of that invasion is what made australia what it is today but its important to acknowlege that to get to where we are the Aboriginal people were treated as lesser humans not just at the start but for generation on generation .

It's a trade off for being where we are as much as it is nuff nuff leaders, as even if we did proceed with PC's which we invented, or mass produced the ute for example and fueled manufacturing, we still would have issues getting it to places which have already established things, or can make things cheaper and faster and reach the rest of the world quicker simply due to location and population.

It is also for this reason that we are still where we are, as you have the 1970's and beyond trying to make do in 2017 which just doesn't work, and no one wants to deal with the pain that will be short term to update and create.

Because I work at a multinational manufacturer based in the USA with branches in the EU and Asia, as soon one thing comes out, production is already moving to how to make it better, how to make it smaller, feel better, run smoother, run cooler, longer, do the intended job quicker and etc then 4 years later you get a product that was made a year prior, then tested and broken several times to make sure it works under duress and the intended audience can use and like it, and the cycle continues.

Instead, let's get USA utes and muscle cars and import PC's from Asia because it's easier, we'll have to move it by truck since over 30 degrees and the train might not be working in several places due to heating issues.

again a lot of words but i dont quite get what your point is ... im not saying Australia should be the maufacturing hub of the world we know that its cheaper and more efficent overseas but innovation comes in many forms .. Aussie scientist were leading the way on a vast range of fields til funding was slashed to pay for border control , the aussie school system was churning out inovators and intelegent leaders now its churning out people with debts to pay for qualifications that they struggle to find work to use.. its the lack of want for the short term pain for the long term gain that has Australia falling behind the mentality of lets save a billion dollars by doing a half arsed job on the NBN never mind its going to cost 2 billion to fix it when we realise the half arsed way only works half arsed ..

 

[VDS66]

i dont quiet get what you are trying to say here are you trying to say the Aboriginal people were racist to the settlers ?
the term invasion is pretty spot on the settlers forcefully came and took the land from the people already here its no differant to say Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in the 90's ... the fact is in that era that was totally acceptable and you are right the actions of that invasion is what made australia what it is today but its important to acknowlege that to get to where we are the Aboriginal people were treated as lesser humans not just at the start but for generation on generation .


again a lot of words but i dont quite get what your point is ... im not saying Australia should be the maufacturing hub of the world we know that its cheaper and more efficent overseas but innovation comes in many forms .. Aussie scientist were leading the way on a vast range of fields til funding was slashed to pay for border control , the aussie school system was churning out inovators and intelegent leaders now its churning out people with debts to pay for qualifications that they struggle to find work to use.. its the lack of want for the short term pain for the long term gain that has Australia falling behind the mentality of lets save a billion dollars by doing a half arsed job on the NBN never mind its going to cost 2 billion to fix it when we realise the half arsed way only works half arsed ..

Mate I've haven't understood any of his posts for the last 6 years...

Unfortunately what you say is correct.

There is no more working for the common good.

Politicians only do enough to stay in office. They are beholden to their donors. The religious right has far too much influence as does the fossil fuel industry. The NBN was changed to protect Murdoch.

Big Business is now profit driven. It's all about bottom line and incentive bonuses.

Much easier to cut jobs or takeover another business to protect that bonus than it is to create a business that benefits society.

That said, cost of labour is an issue. Capital will move to new countries all the time. China is investing in Africa as it's burgeoning middle class raises incomes and therefore labour costs.

The key is to plan and be ahead of the curve through innovation.

As you say, no one has the balls to lead that way, but does the average punter want the pain of doing so.

Witness the angst when a coal fired plant has to close.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

i dont quiet get what you are trying to say here are you trying to say the Aboriginal people were racist to the settlers ?
the term invasion is pretty spot on the settlers forcefully came and took the land from the people already here its no differant to say Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in the 90's ... the fact is in that era that was totally acceptable and you are right the actions of that invasion is what made australia what it is today but its important to acknowlege that to get to where we are the Aboriginal people were treated as lesser humans not just at the start but for generation on generation .


again a lot of words but i dont quite get what your point is ... im not saying Australia should be the maufacturing hub of the world we know that its cheaper and more efficent overseas but innovation comes in many forms .. Aussie scientist were leading the way on a vast range of fields til funding was slashed to pay for border control , the aussie school system was churning out inovators and intelegent leaders now its churning out people with debts to pay for qualifications that they struggle to find work to use.. its the lack of want for the short term pain for the long term gain that has Australia falling behind the mentality of lets save a billion dollars by doing a half arsed job on the NBN never mind its going to cost 2 billion to fix it when we realise the half arsed way only works half arsed ..

No that's not how the term INVASION. Is used. The meaning is being perverted to suit the cause. I posted a definition of it.
SOME of the aboriginals were racist. Some were very warlike , so xenophobic they wouldn't even suffer other tribes. Some of them threw spears at Capt Cook just for being there. Others were friendlier. They were NOT some weird race of peaceful nature loving environmental do-gooders.

The settlers did not arrive with an agenda to displace the Aboriginals.
Many of the conflicts were initiated by Aboriginal tribes. Others were pure culture clash , put a redneck sheepfarmer near a tribe of natives who are used to catching whatever food they can find.
The biggest tragedy was disease, introduced to a people that had little exposure and therefore little immunity.
The way its going history will soon be saying that John Phillip rocked up with a ship full off Sherman tanks.

---------------------------------------------
We don't like having big businesses here, but its businesses that innovate. If someone at Holden had an innovative idea, it was immediately rolled out to the GM factory in China. If Someone at Toyota Australia had a great idea, it got implemented in the Thailand plant.

So who is going to innovate? Of course scientists had their funding slashed. They invent something. Sell it for a price , not enough to cover the research, to an overseas country who capitalise on it.
The days of oh look i've invented the Hills Hoist are long gone. Big corporations have patents for just about every harebrained idea out there and it costs too much to patent anyway. Innovative students get jobs in K-Mart.

Here is one good example about why you don't want to be an Australian based company. There are plenty of other reasons.
Gearbox manufacturer in Albury needs to find more customers since Australian market is down to Ford and declining.
Find new customer Sanyong.
Sanyong go broke , declare bankruptcy under Korean law. They get to write off their debt.
Gearbox manufacturer goes bust because biggest customer doesn't pay their bill.
Under Korean law Sanyong are able to keep trading.
Under Australian law Sanyong are able to purchase the company that went broke because of them.

 

[gringo2011]

Hmm Maybe they should have negotiated with the collective governement of NSW to allow people to immigrate into what was until then a very sparsely populated place. Would that have worked?

People like the Nation thats been forged. Don't need to wallow in guilt over it all the time.

Don't need to feel guilty for anything but you can just change the celebration date and make it less issue. They have had a pretty bad run up until very recently. I think they'd be pretty happy to move on from the past but want it acknowledged as well.

 

[gringo2011]

No that's not how the term INVASION. Is used. The meaning is being perverted to suit the cause. I posted a definition of it.
SOME of the aboriginals were racist. Some were very warlike , so xenophobic they wouldn't even suffer other tribes. Some of them threw spears at Capt Cook just for being there. Others were friendlier. They were NOT some weird race of peaceful nature loving environmental do-gooders.

The settlers did not arrive with an agenda to displace the Aboriginals.
Many of the conflicts were initiated by Aboriginal tribes. Others were pure culture clash , put a redneck sheepfarmer near a tribe of natives who are used to catching whatever food they can find.
The biggest tragedy was disease, introduced to a people that had little exposure and therefore little immunity.
The way its going history will soon be saying that John Phillip rocked up with a ship full off Sherman tanks.

---------------------------------------------
We don't like having big businesses here, but its businesses that innovate. If someone at Holden had an innovative idea, it was immediately rolled out to the GM factory in China. If Someone at Toyota Australia had a great idea, it got implemented in the Thailand plant.

So who is going to innovate? Of course scientists had their funding slashed. They invent something. Sell it for a price , not enough to cover the research, to an overseas country who capitalise on it.
The days of oh look i've invented the Hills Hoist are long gone. Big corporations have patents for just about every harebrained idea out there and it costs too much to patent anyway. Innovative students get jobs in K-Mart.

Here is one good example about why you don't want to be an Australian based company. There are plenty of other reasons.
Gearbox manufacturer in Albury needs to find more customers since Australian market is down to Ford and declining.
Find new customer Sanyong.
Sanyong go broke , declare bankruptcy under Korean law. They get to write off their debt.
Gearbox manufacturer goes bust because biggest customer doesn't pay their bill.
Under Korean law Sanyong are able to keep trading.
Under Australian law Sanyong are able to purchase the company that went broke because of them.

I think you need to read some Australian history, the Aboriginals were routinely slaughtered and some was as you say a culture clash, but it still happened. Unless we have another genocide they are here still and going to have to live with us. That means making them feel part of it.

When we had globalisation pushed on us because it suits big business to sell in any market they chose with out tariffs. When Holden made cars here and had import tariffs on imports we could sell our cars for a competitive amount. China can build a car for about $4000 we would have to pay at least 3 times that to make it here. Globalisation is great if you are like Apple who already have huge monopoly and no one can catch up. They can make something in china for next to nothing bypassing any kind of labour and safety laws. They then sell it in a country like Australia then make up invoices in a tax haven to look like you only make 10 cents per unit.

If one company did this kind of thing the economies of the world could cope, but when they all do it roads, schools and hospitals are harder to maintain from the shrinking pool of money. Korea is funding their auto industry like most countries which allows them to keep buying up. The guy who designed the Ford Territory was the hottest young designer in the world, he was snapped up by Kia and made them go from a brand that no one wanted to a stylish "youth" brand version of Hyundai.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Soooooo, any BF Sainters heading to Adelaide for the Test?

A group of us are on the 7am outta Tulla, McLaren Vale on Friday, The Union on Friday night, Cricket Sat & Sun, home Monday.

Have spent the morning trying to weather proof the house so that the lovely & kids can stay reasonably dry when armageddon hits.

 

[Yawkey way]

This user pays system was and is an absolute disaster as was selling off many of the states rolled gold assets.

User pays was very interesting in a horrifying way because it required a complete change in the way service delivery was viewed.

I mean when you acknowledge the concept of a community service obligation it's pretty difficult to justify user pays. When you decide you have no obligation or very little obligation except in terms of oversight to provide a whole range of services it makes anything possible.

That's what they did in so many areas, as a concequence big business often foreign owned have control of some prime assets and we pay through the nose for things we once owned which now deliver an inferior service.

Even the user pays system itself is a joke take water as an example, the more you use the more you pay sounds fair. Take a closer look, you can't avoid using water there is a per litre per head figure which is generally accepted as fair and reasonable but they don't use that. No water rates take no account of the size of the family and have a punitive measure built into the charge where the rate increases as your consumption does.

It's not about water saving because a single person household can really waste water and never pay over the lowest rate while a large family of say six can meet the gold standard for water consumption and will never avoid being charged partially at the higher rate.

Don't even get me started on the power system and a dozen other things, did you ever see the British show grumpy old men? Well that's me now.

 

[Yawkey way]

Soooooo, any BF Sainters heading to Adelaide for the Test?

A group of us are on the 7am outta Tulla, McLaren Vale on Friday, The Union on Friday night, Cricket Sat & Sun, home Monday.

Have spent the morning trying to weather proof the house so that the lovely & kids can stay reasonably dry when armageddon hits.

I hope you have a great time, I'm out buying sand bags and hoping the predictions are exaggerated. I was flooded here when we had 100mls plus in 1 hour, if I can avoid a repeat I will.

 

[Yawkey way]

Only a Baby Boomer would say something like that
Lets get her

Is that st trav at the front.