Discussion Random Discussion

[VDS66]

No that's not how the term INVASION. Is used. The meaning is being perverted to suit the cause. I posted a definition of it

Your definition kind of described what happened.

SOME of the aboriginals were racist. Some were very warlike , so xenophobic they wouldn't even suffer other tribes. Some of them threw spears at Capt Cook just for being there. Others were friendlier. They were NOT some weird race of peaceful nature loving environmental do-gooders.

I think you could describe warring tribes as savage, but I'm not sure they're racist. Kind of like saying I hate Fijians who support Collingwood because I'm racist.

Your words reflect a dim view of pre-European aboriginal life (you would be horrified by pre-European Fijians). One could argue in hind sight that they had a very valid reason to try and keep Captain Cook away. It was Cook after all who claimed possession (not sovereignty) of Terra Australis after declaring it Terra Nullis. Captain Arthur Phillips (who led the first fleet) own diaries contradict that claim completely as he records sailing into various harbours in Australia.

The settlers did not arrive with an agenda to displace the Aboriginals. Many of the conflicts were initiated by Aboriginal tribes. Others were pure culture clash , put a redneck sheepfarmer near a tribe of natives who are used to catching whatever food they can find.

Captain Phillips early instructions cannot be found (along with other key instruments that indigenous Australians would love to get their hands on so they might be able to form a legal argument within the framework of Australian law as derived from English law). But the lore around it suggests that he was tasked with protecting aboriginal lives and livlihoods, and I think most agree that the experience of aborigines in NSW was much less violent than in Victoria, Western Australia and Tasmania. But make no bones about it. Captain Phillips came. He built settlements. He homed settlers there. He armed them to the teeth. And at the very first signs of resistance to land claims, he mobilized a militia to mercilessly suppress indigenous populations. Surely this doesn't happen in the modern world now, does it?

The biggest tragedy was disease, introduced to a people that had little exposure and therefore little immunity.

No. The biggest tragedy was illegal possession of a land inhabited by an estimated population of 1,500,000 indigenous Australians. Everything that follows from that (disease, devastation, genocide) is just a by-product of that initial wrong.

The way its going history will soon be saying that John Phillip rocked up with a ship full off Sherman tanks.

Who is this John Phillip that you speak of? And why would he bring Sherman tanks, when clearly light sabers are easier to transport by sea?

---------------------------------------------
We don't like having big businesses here, but its businesses that innovate. If someone at Holden had an innovative idea, it was immediately rolled out to the GM factory in China. If Someone at Toyota Australia had a great idea, it got implemented in the Thailand plant.

So who is going to innovate? Of course scientists had their funding slashed. They invent something. Sell it for a price , not enough to cover the research, to an overseas country who capitalise on it.
The days of oh look i've invented the Hills Hoist are long gone. Big corporations have patents for just about every harebrained idea out there and it costs too much to patent anyway. Innovative students get jobs in K-Mart.

Here is one good example about why you don't want to be an Australian based company. There are plenty of other reasons.
Gearbox manufacturer in Albury needs to find more customers since Australian market is down to Ford and declining.
Find new customer Sanyong.
Sanyong go broke , declare bankruptcy under Korean law. They get to write off their debt.
Gearbox manufacturer goes bust because biggest customer doesn't pay their bill.
Under Korean law Sanyong are able to keep trading.
Under Australian law Sanyong are able to purchase the company that went broke because of them.

I did about $30,000 dollars worth of work on a multi-storey set of apartments for a large Australian building company.
The builder went bankrupt.
They appointed a liquidator who locked up the site.
The liquidator was paid $600 per hour. The 20 year old who put the chains on the gates and did a site inventory was paid $150 an hour.
They seized my tools. They seized $8,000 dollars worth of building material I delivered to site as part of my contract.
The owner of the property engaged a new builder to finish the job.
The new builder used my materials to complete the job.
I have yet to be paid any amount as compensation, but I expect 10 cents in the dollar

There is injustice everywhere in this capitalist system. I get paid $60 an hour to build stuff. Some get paid $600 an hour to shut stuff down.

Palestinians like this post.

 

[CursingFijian]

You missed my point on the business with Sanyong.
If Sanyong were an Australian company they would have died.
As a Korean company , they took control of an Australian company, making it then a foreign owned company. There's not much reason to have an Australian based company.

Sucks what happened to you, under law if you'd had proof of the ownership of the stuff at the site you could have claimed it back from the liquidator's but practically who the hell photographs and documents their tools every day. The company i work for had a customer go under shortly after we shipped them parts. We had terms and conditions that we retained ownership of the product until such time they were paid for, and because of this we were able to claim it back.

I'm not going to keep going about the other stuff. But 1.5 Million Aboriginals? That would be close to the highest population estimate made by anyone. And of course if i dispute that number i'm an arseh*le for trying to downplay the genocide that took place.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131113121606/http://www.nccarf.edu.au/wwwold/settlements-infrastructure/sites/www.nccarf.edu.au.settlements-infrastructure/files/file/ACCARNSI Node 2 Discussion Paper - Population Distribution Migration and Climate Change in Australia Final.pdf

I did get your comment about Sanyong. Definitely made me mad, and the Government IMO has a moral obligation to intervene in those instances I reckon because there is nothing nation building about that carry on.

I did have proof of ownership in my case. But nobody cared. The administrators worry that if they let me on site I would steal somebody else's gear to make up losses. Just so much injustice through the whole process.

Yeah I definitely did over estimate the population, but maybe not by as much as you think. There are differing estimates regarding aboriginal population prior to European settlement. The upper estimates are at about 1.25 million [Evans, R. (2007) A History of Queensland. Cambridge UK: Cambridge U. Press. pp.10-12]. Interestingly experts estimate that prior to European settlement nearly 1.6 billion indigenous Australians lived and died in Australia.

Australian history is what it is. It can't be changed. We need to embrace the whole story. Every ugly truth. It will eventually set us free and allow us to change the narrative around indigenous Australians to one where we are both thankful and proud of their resilience in the light of some terrible governing policy in the first 200 years of European settlement, and moving forward immerse our heritage in aboriginal culture.

Is it possible that your two topics are related and there is no profit in reconciliation?

 

[StCicatriz]

Roebourne is a prime example of a self defeating process... making a generation of people who are dependant on goverment assistance .. these people were not living they were just being.. there was no future no way out no ambition nothing just day in day out the same the problem would not go away just because it was out of sight it would not go away with the goverment just throwing money at it the abused were becoming abusers it was a cycle of addiction abuse and violence.. im not an expert on how to fix the problem but what was happening out there needed to stop one way or the other has it improved the situation now the community has been closed or has it just spread it out so its not as noticable ?

its not closed, they're trying to work out how to address it along with a bunch of other similar type of communities

the biggest issue roebourne had was a cycle of catch and release. catch the offenders, charge them, prosecute them, put them in jail, then release them back to the same community a couple of years later or what ever the short period was. incredibly soft courts

its a reactive measure and your last defencive measure but it has to be adhered too

btw roebournes issues occurred pre-welfare

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It's all in the past.....not one person alive in this country today can change what happened back then. We would if we could, but we can't. Sorry's have been officially given. We can't keep saying sorry forever.

At some point the indigenous community have to take responsibility for the abuses taking place in some of the remote communities. We the "whites", can't do anything about that either......if we went in and took away the abused victims we would be accused of stealing the children, thus creating another stolen generation.......it has to be up to the people themselves.

Indigenous people have the same rights as other Australians, it might be difficult but ultimately it is up to the individual to take those rights and try to make a life for themselves. It can be hard to do, but that happens for other Australians as well.

Kudos to the elders of the communities for at least trying to turn things around and protect the kids.

I firmly believe that everyone regardless of colour, race or religion is to be congratulated for "having a go" This country gives them that opportunity.

for the most part the sorry has been accepted the issue is the celebration on a day that is seen as the start of the problem... put it this way i can say sorry if i steal your car but if i never actuall give it back abd then on the day i stole it did burnouts on your driveway to celebrate the day i got your car i reckon you would have grounds to be annoyed .. the differance is the aboriginals dont want you to stop enjoying australia day they just want to move it to a day not based on their plight.
you are right that at some point a person has to take control of their lives and break the cycle ofbeing the under privliged and for many aboriginal people they are their own worst enemy when it comes to getting out of that cycle. My friend who is a known Leader in the aboriginal community once told me when we were discussing the situation that for the most part he believes that for all the best intentions of government to "help" his people by way of welfare its opportunity that they really need... it is a hard thing because there is a lot of mistrust and assumption when it comes to aboriginal people.. i know guys who flat out wont employ them , i know of a store that had a pollicy that a security button be pressed anytime one walked into the store (regardless of who they are ). ive seen people move sides of the bus to avoid sitting next to an aboriginal... so while the idea of they need to just help themselves is sound we also need to look at what road block we put up to prevent them to be able to do that

 

[gringo2011]

No that's not how the term INVASION. Is used. The meaning is being perverted to suit the cause. I posted a definition of it

Your definition kind of described what happened.

SOME of the aboriginals were racist. Some were very warlike , so xenophobic they wouldn't even suffer other tribes. Some of them threw spears at Capt Cook just for being there. Others were friendlier. They were NOT some weird race of peaceful nature loving environmental do-gooders.

I think you could describe warring tribes as savage, but I'm not sure they're racist. Kind of like saying I hate Fijians who support Collingwood because I'm racist.

Your words reflect a dim view of pre-European aboriginal life (you would be horrified by pre-European Fijians). One could argue in hind sight that they had a very valid reason to try and keep Captain Cook away. It was Cook after all who claimed possession (not sovereignty) of Terra Australis after declaring it Terra Nullis. Captain Arthur Phillips (who led the first fleet) own diaries contradict that claim completely as he records sailing into various harbours in Australia.

The settlers did not arrive with an agenda to displace the Aboriginals. Many of the conflicts were initiated by Aboriginal tribes. Others were pure culture clash , put a redneck sheepfarmer near a tribe of natives who are used to catching whatever food they can find.

Captain Phillips early instructions cannot be found (along with other key instruments that indigenous Australians would love to get their hands on so they might be able to form a legal argument within the framework of Australian law as derived from English law). But the lore around it suggests that he was tasked with protecting aboriginal lives and livlihoods, and I think most agree that the experience of aborigines in NSW was much less violent than in Victoria, Western Australia and Tasmania. But make no bones about it. Captain Phillips came. He built settlements. He homed settlers there. He armed them to the teeth. And at the very first signs of resistance to land claims, he mobilized a militia to mercilessly suppress indigenous populations. Surely this doesn't happen in the modern world now, does it?

The biggest tragedy was disease, introduced to a people that had little exposure and therefore little immunity.

No. The biggest tragedy was illegal possession of a land inhabited by an estimated population of 1,500,000 indigenous Australians. Everything that follows from that (disease, devastation, genocide) is just a by-product of that initial wrong.

The way its going history will soon be saying that John Phillip rocked up with a ship full off Sherman tanks.

Who is this John Phillip that you speak of? And why would he bring Sherman tanks, when clearly light sabers are easier to transport by sea?

---------------------------------------------
We don't like having big businesses here, but its businesses that innovate. If someone at Holden had an innovative idea, it was immediately rolled out to the GM factory in China. If Someone at Toyota Australia had a great idea, it got implemented in the Thailand plant.

So who is going to innovate? Of course scientists had their funding slashed. They invent something. Sell it for a price , not enough to cover the research, to an overseas country who capitalise on it.
The days of oh look i've invented the Hills Hoist are long gone. Big corporations have patents for just about every harebrained idea out there and it costs too much to patent anyway. Innovative students get jobs in K-Mart.

Here is one good example about why you don't want to be an Australian based company. There are plenty of other reasons.
Gearbox manufacturer in Albury needs to find more customers since Australian market is down to Ford and declining.
Find new customer Sanyong.
Sanyong go broke , declare bankruptcy under Korean law. They get to write off their debt.
Gearbox manufacturer goes bust because biggest customer doesn't pay their bill.
Under Korean law Sanyong are able to keep trading.
Under Australian law Sanyong are able to purchase the company that went broke because of them.

I did about $30,000 dollars worth of work on a multi-storey set of apartments for a large Australian building company.
The builder went bankrupt.
They appointed a liquidator who locked up the site.
The liquidator was paid $600 per hour. The 20 year old who put the chains on the gates and did a site inventory was paid $150 an hour.
They seized my tools. They seized $8,000 dollars worth of building material I delivered to site as part of my contract.
The owner of the property engaged a new builder to finish the job.
The new builder used my materials to complete the job.
I have yet to be paid any amount as compensation, but I expect 10 cents in the dollar

There is injustice everywhere in this capitalist system. I get paid $60 an hour to build stuff. Some get paid $600 an hour to shut stuff down.

Yeah Terra Nullis was pretty sad. There are old paintings with stone huts on port phillip bay between St Kilda and Port Melbourne and they have farmers still throwing away marker stones in South Australia. People who left the colony to live with "natives" describe living in seasonal permanent shelters that they went back to defending on the time of year.


That sucks CF, there are some unscrupulous crooks in the building industry.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

That sucks CF, there are some unscrupulous crooks in the building industry.

But also some really really nice blokes

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I did get your comment about Sanyong. Definitely made me mad, and the Government IMO has a moral obligation to intervene in those instances I reckon because there is nothing nation building about that carry on.

I did have proof of ownership in my case. But nobody cared. The administrators worry that if they let me on site I would steal somebody else's gear to make up losses. Just so much injustice through the whole process.

Yeah I definitely did over estimate the population, but maybe not by as much as you think. There are differing estimates regarding aboriginal population prior to European settlement. The upper estimates are at about 1.25 million [Evans, R. (2007) A History of Queensland. Cambridge UK: Cambridge U. Press. pp.10-12]. Interestingly experts estimate that prior to European settlement nearly 1.6 billion indigenous Australians lived and died in Australia.

Australian history is what it is. It can't be changed. We need to embrace the whole story. Every ugly truth. It will eventually set us free and allow us to change the narrative around indigenous Australians to one where we are both thankful and proud of their resilience in the light of some terrible governing policy in the first 200 years of European settlement, and moving forward immerse our heritage in aboriginal culture.

Is it possible that your two topics are related and there is no profit in reconciliation?

I did have proof of ownership in my case. But nobody cared. The administrators worry that if they let me on site I would steal somebody else's gear to make up losses. Just so much injustice through the whole process.

Yeah I definitely did over estimate the population, but maybe not by as much as you think. There are differing estimates regarding aboriginal population prior to European settlement. The upper estimates are at about 1.25 million [Evans, R. (2007) A History of Queensland. Cambridge UK: Cambridge U. Press. pp.10-12]. Interestingly experts estimate that prior to European settlement nearly 1.6 billion indigenous Australians lived and died in Australia.

Australian history is what it is. It can't be changed. We need to embrace the whole story. Every ugly truth. It will eventually set us free and allow us to change the narrative around indigenous Australians to one where we are both thankful and proud of their resilience in the light of some terrible governing policy in the first 200 years of European settlement, and moving forward immerse our heritage in aboriginal culture.

Is it possible that your two topics are related and there is no profit in reconciliation?[/QUOTE]

It really gets my goat in cases like this where you have the law on your side , but the cost of taking any action outweighs the benefits.
Just as i hate how big companies can drag out legal cases until the one with the most money wins .

 

[CursingFijian]

But also some really really nice blokes

That’s a really important observation. There’s more good guys than there aren’t. And a lot of them have been very important to my personal development in Australia, and I’m lucky enough to have acquired many friends over that journey. I work for a couple of family owned businesses that treat me like family.

All things considered I feel like I won the lottery when Australia approved my visa application. It’s a wonderful country with great people. And I’m proud to call it home.

 

[MacMum]

That’s a really important observation. There’s more good guys than there aren’t. And a lot of them have been very important to my personal development in Australia, and I’m lucky enough to have acquired many friends over that journey. I work for a couple of family owned businesses that treat me like family.

All things considered I feel like I won the lottery when Australia approved my visa application. It’s a wonderful country with great people. And I’m proud to call it home.

...and with that attitude, you are very welcome

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That’s a really important observation. There’s more good guys than there aren’t. And a lot of them have been very important to my personal development in Australia, and I’m lucky enough to have acquired many friends over that journey. I work for a couple of family owned businesses that treat me like family.

All things considered I feel like I won the lottery when Australia approved my visa application. It’s a wonderful country with great people. And I’m proud to call it home.

And a bloody good footy team you might add.

 

[karaoke]

Just getting in before they are run off their feet over the next few days.

The SES are awesome, they do a fantastic job for their communities, most of the time in trying circumstances.

Thanks to you guys & girls. [emoji122]

 

[VDS66]

...and with that attitude, you are very welcome

Patronising...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think there is too much knowing the cost but not the value going on.

I have said it before but life isn't a business and society isn't there to support the economy.

A profits first approach will never create a secure and prosperous society. The past 30 years have proven this to be the case.

As you correctly state, subsidies to the car industry kept jobs, money and taxes in Australia... And the net return to government coffers via income tax and gst far exceeded the subsidies.

So then it comes down to ideology and your view of a governments role in helping the economy.

Governments are not here to make a profit.

They are here to invest and encourage the diversification of skills and education in order for us to adapt to the new economy.

I always recall Clive Palmer on QA... He was asked why he didn't invest in renewable energy.

His answer was that there wasn't enough profit in it.

There in a nutshell was the reason for our malaise...

What Governments CAN do is regulate.
"I want to build a new coal power station" "Bad luck its against our policy "
"Ok how about a cheapie gas turbine that's less efficient than a truck engine " "Nope you have to use a closed cycle system to get approval ".
Of course you are forcing a more expensive system then, so power prices will go up , and that will upset people.

It makes sense to apply Duty to things like smartphones. Not to protect any local industry but to make sure they pay tax.
Ever gone overseas and picked up an Apple phone cheaper? No they regulate their prices all around the world.
Remember they tried to keep the price of DVD's artificially high by applying region codes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lol...

Who the **** are we to impose our moral values on other cultures?

I'm sure if we look hard enough, the white fella has plenty to be ashamed of when it comes to treating women.

Fmd until the 1990s it was still legal to rape your wife in some states.

This shit knows no cultural boundaries.

So you suggest that we should ignore the victims of culture.
If some weird hypothetical religion says its ok to cut the legs of women because its culture we shouldn't interfere?
Why is it different with indigenous Australians if we find aspects of their culture unacceptable?
It used to be "culture" to execute criminals , why did we change?

Your logic is completely wacked and totally ignores the plight of the victims.

Culture is the worst possible reason to perpetuate bad behaviour, and digging into history for things other people have done wrong won't change this.

Do we want to move forward as a society.... or do we cling to traditional culture in these cases?

And who is a "White Fella"
None of my distant relatives came out with the first fleet and i don't associate with the British colonials at all. Are you calling me one of them just because of the colour of my skin?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That’s a really important observation. There’s more good guys than there aren’t. And a lot of them have been very important to my personal development in Australia, and I’m lucky enough to have acquired many friends over that journey. I work for a couple of family owned businesses that treat me like family.

All things considered I feel like I won the lottery when Australia approved my visa application. It’s a wonderful country with great people. And I’m proud to call it home.

I know people who freelance in construction at an Engineering level, they avoid trying to get work in Victoria, especially Melbourne.
Just the stuff that leaked out about the Desal plant gives a few hints why.

 

[VDS66]

What Governments CAN do is regulate.
"I want to build a new coal power station" "Bad luck its against our policy "
"Ok how about a cheapie gas turbine that's less efficient than a truck engine " "Nope you have to use a closed cycle system to get approval ".
Of course you are forcing a more expensive system then, so power prices will go up , and that will upset people.

It makes sense to apply Duty to things like smartphones. Not to protect any local industry but to make sure they pay tax.
Ever gone overseas and picked up an Apple phone cheaper? No they regulate their prices all around the world.
Remember they tried to keep the price of DVD's artificially high by applying region codes.

If you get a chance, watch Saving Capitalism on Netflix.

The premise which I agree with is that there is no such thing as a free market because the government makes the rules that markets can operate in. So it's rigged from the start because these rules are influenced by powerful lobbyists and campaign finders etc.

It's a USA doco but there are strong parallels here, especially when you look at the mining tax and attempts to reform poker machines.

 

[VDS66]

So you suggest that we should ignore the victims of culture.
If some weird hypothetical religion says its ok to cut the legs of women because its culture we shouldn't interfere?
Why is it different with indigenous Australians if we find aspects of their culture unacceptable?
It used to be "culture" to execute criminals , why did we change?

Your logic is completely wacked and totally ignores the plight of the victims.

Culture is the worst possible reason to perpetuate bad behaviour, and digging into history for things other people have done wrong won't change this.

Do we want to move forward as a society.... or do we cling to traditional culture in these cases?

And who is a "White Fella"
None of my distant relatives came out with the first fleet and i don't associate with the British colonials at all. Are you calling me one of them just because of the colour of my skin?

Not calling you anything at all.

Just sick of hearing how western society is the know all of civility, when we let people rot in the streets, in concentration camps, and kill ten's of thousands of innocents in illegal wars...

 

[gringo2011]

It's all in the past.....not one person alive in this country today can change what happened back then. We would if we could, but we can't. Sorry's have been officially given. We can't keep saying sorry forever.

At some point the indigenous community have to take responsibility for the abuses taking place in some of the remote communities. We the "whites", can't do anything about that either......if we went in and took away the abused victims we would be accused of stealing the children, thus creating another stolen generation.......it has to be up to the people themselves.

Indigenous people have the same rights as other Australians, it might be difficult but ultimately it is up to the individual to take those rights and try to make a life for themselves. It can be hard to do, but that happens for other Australians as well.

Kudos to the elders of the communities for at least trying to turn things around and protect the kids.

I firmly believe that everyone regardless of colour, race or religion is to be congratulated for "having a go" This country gives them that opportunity.

We can make Australia day a non controversial date and acknowledge them as the original owners in the constitution. It's largely symbolic but means something to them. We had a paternalistic approach with them right up until the 1970s and still is with taking the rights of the individual away. They can't buy alcohol- which is good in someways, they can't spend their welfare on non essential items-again good in some ways ....but the outcome is you disempower them and make their life skills worse than before. Investments in real workable businesses that help mass employ people and programs where there are sports or past times are integrated into education and life skills are all ways forward.

A lot of remote communities are there because we don't want them near us in the cities so they were pushed to the isolated margins.

 

[MacMum]

Patronising...

....I am happy and willing to share my country and all it offers with anyone who comes here with an attitude like CursingFijian ....prepared to adopt our way of life and be happy to be here.

..not like some who only want to cause trouble. I do not offer a welcome to those people at all, imo they can bugger off back to where they come from.

We have enough troublemakers of our own without any more who arrive and bring their hate-filled, criminal way of life with them.

If you call welcoming someone who has graced our shore with his presence and has a cheerful, happy to be here attitude, patronising, then it's you who has the problem mate, not me.

 

[gringo2011]

I did have proof of ownership in my case. But nobody cared. The administrators worry that if they let me on site I would steal somebody else's gear to make up losses. Just so much injustice through the whole process.

Yeah I definitely did over estimate the population, but maybe not by as much as you think. There are differing estimates regarding aboriginal population prior to European settlement. The upper estimates are at about 1.25 million [Evans, R. (2007) A History of Queensland. Cambridge UK: Cambridge U. Press. pp.10-12]. Interestingly experts estimate that prior to European settlement nearly 1.6 billion indigenous Australians lived and died in Australia.

Australian history is what it is. It can't be changed. We need to embrace the whole story. Every ugly truth. It will eventually set us free and allow us to change the narrative around indigenous Australians to one where we are both thankful and proud of their resilience in the light of some terrible governing policy in the first 200 years of European settlement, and moving forward immerse our heritage in aboriginal culture.

Is it possible that your two topics are related and there is no profit in reconciliation?

It really gets my goat in cases like this where you have the law on your side , but the cost of taking any action outweighs the benefits.
Just as i hate how big companies can drag out legal cases until the one with the most money wins .[/QUOTE]


Yeah, I was a corporate in retail and we routinely bullied smaller companies into submission with lawyers. We would deliberately make them supply below cost to them or trick them on distribution and it was considered good business practice. If any kicked up an issue we would just send legal letters to them and it was usually cheaper for them to supply at a loss that incur the legal fees. I remember we had a record company and they were a small operation, they accidentally had a few contracts of indy bands that made it big in the 1990s, we deliberately ****ed them so hard the owner was on the phone crying to me. Upper management just laughed about it and made them stick to a contract that put them in debt with no profit coming in from a period they should have made heaps. I lost faith in the system from it and went my own way instead. I have mates that still work in corporate and it's no different across most industries. There is a corporate culture of **** everyone before they **** you.

 

[VDS66]

....I am happy and willing to share my country and all it offers with anyone who comes here with an attitude like CursingFijian ....prepared to adopt our way of life and be happy to be here.

..not like some who only want to cause trouble. I do not offer a welcome to those people at all, imo they can bugger off back to where they come from.

We have enough troublemakers of our own without any more who arrive and bring their hate-filled, criminal way of life with them.

If you call welcoming someone who has graced our shore with his presence and has a cheerful, happy to be here attitude, patronising, then it's you who has the problem mate, not me.

Lol.

We decide who comes here and how they come?

Maybe we should bring back the white Australia policy?

Migrants built this country.

I call him a good, hard working person.

 

[CursingFijian]

Yeah, I was a corporate in retail and we routinely bullied smaller companies into submission with lawyers. We would deliberately make them supply below cost to them or trick them on distribution and it was considered good business practice. If any kicked up an issue we would just send legal letters to them and it was usually cheaper for them to supply at a loss that incur the legal fees. I remember we had a record company and they were a small operation, they accidentally had a few contracts of indy bands that made it big in the 1990s, we deliberately ****** them so hard the owner was on the phone crying to me. Upper management just laughed about it and made them stick to a contract that put them in debt with no profit coming in from a period they should have made heaps. I lost faith in the system from it and went my own way instead. I have mates that still work in corporate and it's no different across most industries. There is a corporate culture of **** everyone before they **** you.

There are a couple of very large builders that I work with, and whenever they notify me that I have 'won' a contract with them I have a physical reaction. I immediately get nauseous and anxiety sets in. I find that I literally cannot focus on the immediate task at hand until I return to the office and review my quoted price to ensure that I haven't missed something in the fine print on 30 pages of architectural and engineering documents. My wife reckons she can tell when I have 'won' contracts like this because my breathing changes.

 

[gringo2011]

....I am happy and willing to share my country and all it offers with anyone who comes here with an attitude like CursingFijian ....prepared to adopt our way of life and be happy to be here.

..not like some who only want to cause trouble. I do not offer a welcome to those people at all, imo they can bugger off back to where they come from.

We have enough troublemakers of our own without any more who arrive and bring their hate-filled, criminal way of life with them.

If you call welcoming someone who has graced our shore with his presence and has a cheerful, happy to be here attitude, patronising, then it's you who has the problem mate, not me.

The problem is you get a mixed bag. Some will be great contributors, some will be arseholes, some will be in between. The media makes an issue of the arse holes because it gets attention but the larger proportion are good people who want a better life. I find it bizarre that some people come here and want to change it to where they came from too. Tony Abbott came here from a shit hole and then spends 30 years of his life trying to turn it into a clone of the country he escaped from.

I have inlaws who are immigrants and they are closed minded conservatives who don't want anyone else to come to Australia. It's very common for some reason. They have done very well here and don't want anyone else getting an easy go it seems, they think everyone else is getting an easy ride that isn't them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was a corporate in retail and we routinely bullied smaller companies into submission with lawyers. We would deliberately make them supply below cost to them or trick them on distribution and it was considered good business practice. If any kicked up an issue we would just send legal letters to them and it was usually cheaper for them to supply at a loss that incur the legal fees. I remember we had a record company and they were a small operation, they accidentally had a few contracts of indy bands that made it big in the 1990s, we deliberately ****** them so hard the owner was on the phone crying to me. Upper management just laughed about it and made them stick to a contract that put them in debt with no profit coming in from a period they should have made heaps. I lost faith in the system from it and went my own way instead. I have mates that still work in corporate and it's no different across most industries. There is a corporate culture of **** everyone before they **** you.[/QUOTE]

I kind of laugh when companies like Coles and Woolworths squeal about newcomers Aldi.
Aldi are owned by a private family, who by all accounts aren't megalomaniacs. They've actually been pretty innovative in their supply chain.

Unlike Coles and Woolworths i've yet to hear of them screwing the suppliers as you've described above.
They are completely obsessed with success through screwing suppliers but are useless at strategic planning.... "lets build our new masters stores across the road from the established buningses derp derp ". "lets have Target and K-Mart sell the same stuff and compete with each other ".

 

[gringo2011]

There are a couple of very large builders that I work with, and whenever they notify me that I have 'won' a contract with them I have a physical reaction. I immediately get nauseous and anxiety sets in. I find that I literally cannot focus on the immediate task at hand until I return to the office and review my quoted price to ensure that I haven't missed something in the fine print on 30 pages of architectural and engineering documents. My wife reckons she can tell when I have 'won' contracts like this because my breathing changes.

My wife was a corporate lawyer until recently, she won't let me sign any document with out reviewing it. They are conditioned to expect that everyone is going to try to one up each other. She was in mergers and acquisitions, that's pretty much contract chess. You put in 10 things you know probably won't go through, they do it back and forwards until both parties sign on hoping that nothing slipped through to the keeper.

I have mates that do engineering and they always put in massive margins for big companies for that reason. Another friend did a office strip out in the city recently and he made up a figure he thought would put him out of the job and got it still. Everyone else must do the same thing. He didn't sleep until it was done either and the architects were doing the project management themselves. They got all the air con pulled out and then after he'd done the job they claimed he pulled out the metal hoods (which he was verbally told to remove) and was sent a bill for re-manufacturing them. Luckily the extra he put in covered him.