Discussion Random Discussion

[Crusty Undies]

So they are limited to the track by the GPS.
Same as agricultural equipment.
The Tesla follows the road lines on freeways. ( so Tesla is old hat ?).

Meanwhile the Semi -automatic systems , will just make it more likely the driver is looking at his mobile phone when something unexpected happens.

It will cost a lot of money. Household cars will be no-where near first on the list.
Would make sense that trucks would be the starting point, they already cost a shitload, and you could get payback by using them round the clock, and on relatively simple roads, (freeways ). To me this would be the next logical step after the automated trucks already used on private sites.

It makes sense to spend $50K extra for electronics to make your truck work 12 hours extra each day.
It doesn't make sense to spend that for your family Corolla .

Seriously? I get you don't believe it but maybe do the tiniest bit of research first... It wouldn't and doesn't cost 50k EXTRA for a driverless car, the model 3 is 30k USD ffs. And it absolutely does make sense to make cars promptly as it's literally the biggest market for driverless vehicles with the highest potential for profit.

And finally. No. A GPS does not mean it's stuck on a track it means it can predict typically to 1/10th of a mm the exact location it's digging, pouring etc etc etc. You gonna try and argue there are people that good? The margin for error these machines have is astronomically small in comparison to people. And beyond that these vehicles use GPS for location and numerous other sensors such as infrared and echolocators. So just admit that you don't know and move on.

 

[CursingFijian]

I’m still gutted we aren’t all commuting like the Jetsons by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[karaoke]

I’m still gutted we aren’t all commuting like the Jetsons by now.

Or live in space stations...

Or that all of my doors at home aren't automatic sliding......

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m still gutted we aren’t all commuting like the Jetsons by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I know. I was brought up that the future would be like that . The 2000's . All we have is the stupid telephone with the picture. I want the hovercar.. the robot nanny.... .

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Seriously? I get you don't believe it but maybe do the tiniest bit of research first... It wouldn't and doesn't cost 50k EXTRA for a driverless car, the model 3 is 30k USD ffs. And it absolutely does make sense to make cars promptly as it's literally the biggest market for driverless vehicles with the highest potential for profit.

And finally. No. A GPS does not mean it's stuck on a track it means it can predict typically to 1/10th of a mm the exact location it's digging, pouring etc etc etc. You gonna try and argue there are people that good? The margin for error these machines have is astronomically small in comparison to people. And beyond that these vehicles use GPS for location and numerous other sensors such as infrared and echolocators. So just admit that you don't know and move on.

I don't care if it costs $30K or 1K. Its not ACTUALLY A VEHICLE THAT CAN DRIVE ON THE ROAD WITHOUT A DRIVER. Its not legislation that prevents them. THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO IT.

You've proven my own point, in that the first driver less vehicles ARE actually trucks used on private roads. ( a controlled environment).
I maintain that the first that are used on public roads will also be commercial vehicles.

Furthermore, unless you are charging your Tesla of you own private solar power system, using one in Australia is likely to be worse for greenhouse emissions than driving an efficient Diesel like a Ford Fiesta. ( Electricity from coal/gas ).

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

So they are limited to the track by the GPS.
Same as agricultural equipment.
The Tesla follows the road lines on freeways. ( so Tesla is old hat ?).

Meanwhile the Semi -automatic systems , will just make it more likely the driver is looking at his mobile phone when something unexpected happens.

It will cost a lot of money. Household cars will be no-where near first on the list.
Would make sense that trucks would be the starting point, they already cost a shitload, and you could get payback by using them round the clock, and on relatively simple roads, (freeways ). To me this would be the next logical step after the automated trucks already used on private sites.

It makes sense to spend $50K extra for electronics to make your truck work 12 hours extra each day.
It doesn't make sense to spend that for your family Corolla .

if by track you mean the entire earths land surface then yes technically you are correct the trucks will not drive off cliffs nor will they drive off into the ocean...
i cant coment on the Telsa as i havent looked at the tech on it but in earthmoving there is no need for lines to follow the old tech would be that a serveior would have to come in first and set up sensor gates to keep the trucks in the right spot but what is being tested now is using GPS to let the trucks know where they are. so far the accuracy is leaving human control in its dust .
as for the cost the way the guys are developing this technology the pricing is not astronomical especially when you factor in things such as fuel burn, wear and tear on components, and rework . the industry is calling for this not so much for the hours but for the accuracy a construction vehical would still have to be mindful of the time of day its allowed to work but instead of a human operated grader needing to do 4 passes to get the grade spot on this tech gets it in one or 2 multiply that over 400km and suddenly road construction is compleated quicker with less materials and less wear on the equipment..
you are right comercial industry will be the first to bring this tech in but it wont be long befor the option is available for your carrolla and much like when the manual transmission was complemented by the automatic transmission and then replaced by the automatic transmisson as will be the automation option .. just like now you can still get a manual car but they are less common than an auto ..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

if by track you mean the entire earths land surface then yes technically you are correct the trucks will not drive off cliffs nor will they drive off into the ocean...
i cant coment on the Telsa as i havent looked at the tech on it but in earthmoving there is no need for lines to follow the old tech would be that a serveior would have to come in first and set up sensor gates to keep the trucks in the right spot but what is being tested now is using GPS to let the trucks know where they are. so far the accuracy is leaving human control in its dust .
as for the cost the way the guys are developing this technology the pricing is not astronomical especially when you factor in things such as fuel burn, wear and tear on components, and rework . the industry is calling for this not so much for the hours but for the accuracy a construction vehical would still have to be mindful of the time of day its allowed to work but instead of a human operated grader needing to do 4 passes to get the grade spot on this tech gets it in one or 2 multiply that over 400km and suddenly road construction is compleated quicker with less materials and less wear on the equipment..
you are right comercial industry will be the first to bring this tech in but it wont be long befor the option is available for your carrolla and much like when the manual transmission was complemented by the automatic transmission and then replaced by the automatic transmisson as will be the automation option .. just like now you can still get a manual car but they are less common than an auto ..

Just tell me. There is an obstacle in front of your truck. You can clearly see a side road which will take you around it. Does your truck take the side road, or is your truck programmed to go on a certain spot and stop if something is wrong?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Just tell me. There is an obstacle in front of your truck. You can clearly see a side road which will take you around it. Does your truck take the side road, or is your truck programmed to go on a certain spot and stop if something is wrong?

in the old tech it would stop and alert for the obstacle to be moved ... the new tech the sensors dectect the obstacle and the computer redraws the path to take around the obstacle , the system is also linked so truck 1 encounters the obstacle and deviates to the new path it then passes on that information down the line so truck 2,3,4...100 knows to take the new path once the obstacle has been removed the truck sensors identify that the obstacle is no longer there and reverts back to the initial path and passes the information down the line ....
from the testing this is already making a huge differance to people power in the same situation with human operators it takes almost twice the time to get the trucks using an alternative path as it does with the auto driven ..

think of it sort of a like a smarter version of a roomba vaccum cleaner the little robot vac will have a set cleaning path to take but if there is a chair in the way it notices that and changes path ..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

in the old tech it would stop and alert for the obstacle to be moved ... the new tech the sensors dectect the obstacle and the computer redraws the path to take around the obstacle , the system is also linked so truck 1 encounters the obstacle and deviates to the new path it then passes on that information down the line so truck 2,3,4...100 knows to take the new path once the obstacle has been removed the truck sensors identify that the obstacle is no longer there and reverts back to the initial path and passes the information down the line ....
from the testing this is already making a huge differance to people power in the same situation with human operators it takes almost twice the time to get the trucks using an alternative path as it does with the auto driven ..

think of it sort of a like a smarter version of a roomba vaccum cleaner the little robot vac will have a set cleaning path to take but if there is a chair in the way it notices that and changes path ..

So how does the truck know the "new" path is safe?

 

[gringo2011]

Then what are they all crying about? They pay shit money to 457 migrants who have to ask passengers for directions and have filthy cars then wonder why people don't use them.

Taxi owners are no different to 7-11 owners IMO.

If you are correct about UBER, then all it takes is for another player to come in and offer Uber service at a competitive price point.

All things being equal and if uber cost the same as taxis, I'd still take Uber.

Just wait until we get a direct train to the airport...

The thing is Uber is unsustainable but there is an advantage in getting taxis to up their game. The government probably caved on Uber too easily and should have paid back some licensing fees to existing owners and made Uber pay to compete in the same market. If I had a shop and had to pay rent but the government allowed someone else to occupy the building next door but pay nothing for it, it makes it impossible to compete. The government can legislate to have standards. 457s are a seperate issue. They are demanded by large operators because they want cheap labour. Unfortunately it ends up taking jobs off people here who could do the work.

Uber is ripping off it's drivers and eventually they will have burnt so many they will find it hard to get drivers except 457s too. Luckily they are building their own driverless cars.

 

[gringo2011]

So how does the truck know the "new" path is safe?

Don't know but they are trialling buses at Monash at the moment.

 

[St Kilda Death]

So how does the truck know the "new" path is safe?

How would YOU know the new path is safe?
By looking. By checking the GPS.
Trucks can do that now.
They have actually trialled them on the road now. They can do everything a tricky can do. Including drive longer hours, with less amphetamines...
Also an AI controlled truck isn't going to break speed limits, cut you off or tailgate you.

It's all real mate.
I know you probably watched terminator 2 a few times.
But don't let that scare you.

 

[gringo2011]

Re this auto driverless car thingie.
I was fortunate enough to own a 5.0L Mustang GT Premium California Special convertible when I lived in the States.
The point of that car was to drive it.
Not have it drive you......

I had a 66 Mustang and that was an experience to drive....well until you had to turn a corner or stop. It will definitely be boring having the car drive you places. The convenience of having the kids ferried without having to go and being able to have a big night without someone having to abstain are pretty nice though. The problem with cars is that if everyone has one and we don't want to limit population growth then we need more efficiency. Cars that you call and just pick you up sound like a good plan. Cars that drive themselves can drive with in very small spaces from each other and you need less roads for the same amount of flow. Still hard outside cities though. Mass transit train networks will always be more efficient for distance travel.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I had a 66 Mustang and that was an experience to drive....well until you had to turn a corner or stop. It will definitely be boring having the car drive you places. The convenience of having the kids ferried without having to go and being able to have a big night without someone having to abstain are pretty nice though. The problem with cars is that if everyone has one and we don't want to limit population growth then we need more efficiency. Cars that you call and just pick you up sound like a good plan. Cars that drive themselves can drive with in very small spaces from each other and you need less roads for the same amount of flow. Still hard outside cities though. Mass transit train networks will always be more efficient for distance travel.

The "in between" technology seems completely useless to me.
I've always been happy to drive manual cars, and its only very recently that there are automatic systems that offer better performance/economy than a bog standard 5 speed.

So now they have technology where you can take your hands off the wheel as long as they are somewhere close by , and you are still carefully watching the road and the car is on a Freeway. SO WTF am i meant to be doing with my hands? To me its like letting your 9 year old sit on your lap and steer.
I guess its a step up from propping your knee against the wheel while you bight the big mac, but do i really want to pay a lot of money for that?

The average car in Australia is 10 years old.
If the majority of cars being sold right now started having autonomous control it would be more than a decade before "most " cars had it.

 

[gringo2011]

The "in between" technology seems completely useless to me.
I've always been happy to drive manual cars, and its only very recently that there are automatic systems that offer better performance/economy than a bog standard 5 speed.

So now they have technology where you can take your hands off the wheel as long as they are somewhere close by , and you are still carefully watching the road and the car is on a Freeway. SO WTF am i meant to be doing with my hands? To me its like letting your 9 year old sit on your lap and steer.
I guess its a step up from propping your knee against the wheel while you bight the big mac, but do i really want to pay a lot of money for that?

The average car in Australia is 10 years old.
If the majority of cars being sold right now started having autonomous control it would be more than a decade before "most " cars had it.

That's true but it has to start somewhere. It's also like letting a nine year old with better reflexes, preemptive ESP to know when you may be side or rear crashed, hidden obstacles etc. The Benz is incredible too, it really does just glide in the very centre of a lane and drives to the traffic. It's really hard to get used to for me. I remember having cars with ABS freaked me out when it kicked in for the first time, it sounds like something awful is happening to your car and the pedal goes hard and overrides you. My current car has the engine switch off at lights, they all take a while to get used to but end up just something that the car does.

 

[sunny3193]

I had a 66 Mustang and that was an experience to drive....well until you had to turn a corner or stop. It will definitely be boring having the car drive you places. The convenience of having the kids ferried without having to go and being able to have a big night without someone having to abstain are pretty nice though. The problem with cars is that if everyone has one and we don't want to limit population growth then we need more efficiency. Cars that you call and just pick you up sound like a good plan. Cars that drive themselves can drive with in very small spaces from each other and you need less roads for the same amount of flow. Still hard outside cities though. Mass transit train networks will always be more efficient for distance travel.

LOL, Yep. The 66 Mustang (before power steering?) was brilliant in a straight line, not so brilliant if you needed to steer the thing. Buddy had one of those, or near enough to the year.
Another had a Corvette Stingray of a similar vintage. That cars claim to fame was the split rear window. He also had a 427(?) Black 2013 Corvette Convertible. An absolute brutal machine.
I drove a 2017 Corvette Convertible version through New England in May.
Now there’s a car. An amazing sound.
My last time in the States, when I had my Mustang, saw the appearance of a previously unknown love of muscle car.
(Cue: first track from A Night at the Opera by Queen - “I’m in love with my car”).
Understand the future, but I’m at curmudgeon level 5 so I don’t think I’ll enjoy participating in the driverless car world all that much.

 

[gringo2011]

LOL, Yep. The 66 Mustang (before power steering?) was brilliant in a straight line, not so brilliant if you needed to steer the thing. Buddy had one of those, or near enough to the year.
Another had a Corvette Stingray of a similar vintage. That cars claim to fame was the split rear window. He also had a 427(?) Black 2013 Corvette Convertible. An absolute brutal machine.
I drove a 2017 Corvette Convertible version through New England in May.
Now there’s a car. An amazing sound.
My last time in the States, when I had my Mustang, saw the appearance of a previously unknown love of muscle car.
(Cue: first track from A Night at the Opera by Queen - “I’m in love with my car”).
Understand the future, but I’m at curmudgeon level 5 so I don’t think I’ll enjoy participating in the driverless car world all that much.

Yeah, when you talk of those type of cars you can see why. The split rear window corvette is worth a heap now. A friend had an immaculately restored 66 GT fast back mustang that he sold before they went up. The price muscle cars are bringing now is obscene. I had a few muscle cars here and some were just dangerously stupid. I had a Valiant coupe that belonged to a guy who imported performance parts from the states and he'd put a 340 racing motor in it. All on standard tiny front disk brakes and a car with a cross member that would wind up like a rubber band under the torque. It was heaps of fun though, you got good at knowing how the car was going to misbehave.

 

[StCicatriz]

How would YOU know the new path is safe?
By looking. By checking the GPS.
Trucks can do that now.
They have actually trialled them on the road now. They can do everything a tricky can do. Including drive longer hours, with less amphetamines...
Also an AI controlled truck isn't going to break speed limits, cut you off or tailgate you.

It's all real mate.
I know you probably watched terminator 2 a few times.
But don't let that scare you.

spot on and this is what will change everything

try getting a cab at 3am in perth on a tuesday in the outer suburbs. be prepared to wait. now with driverless vehicles, it just leaves the depot or its rest point and come gets you. no driver fatigue. its activated when needed, automatically.

now apply this to logistics, like you said with trucks, but even at a micro scale

order a small part online. order goes through instantly. automatically picked at the local warehouse, dispatched on a drone or smaller delivery device. arrives ASAP

 

[StCicatriz]

check this one out too:


i dont think we are far off seeing robots being programmed to repeat visual instruction

so once you combine the driverless vehicles with robots you'll suddenly see a lot of automation really ramp up

take for example mining exploration. no need to pay massive salaries to people because they have to based in really remote areas for a period of time to do things like exploration drilling

send out the driverless vehicles with everything you need in it plus the robots. they set it all up, unphased by the conditions like temperatures. can operate literally 24 x 7. collect whats needed, analyse it there and then, send it back to the lab via sat link or just onboard the sample and drive back to base

 

[bergholt]

The biggest issue with the driverless tech is the computer has to make value judgements like if it's going to run down an old woman or a bunch of school children in unavoidable collisions.

Nah, this is The Trolley Problem but it's been overplayed. The computer never has enough information to know what the two courses of action might be, and in those situations will always just brake and stay on its same line. That's more an interesting philosophical problem but it won't be a big deal in practice.

 

[bergholt]

The "in between" technology seems completely useless to me.

I agree with that. The problem with partial automation is the same as the problem with autopilot in planes. In planes the autopilot clicks off if something scary is happening, so the pilot has to come up to speed instantaneously and try to work out the best course of action, even though they were chatting or daydreaming a second earlier.

The same will be the problem with partial automation in cars. If you've driven for the past hour with no problems, you're probably listening to the cricket or checking your phone or looking out the window or having a nap or something. Then the alarm goes off and the autopilot clicks off - wtf do you do? Panic. There's no way you can save that situation because you don't have situational awareness of what's happening. Full automation is the only option, if the human ever has to do anything then it will fail badly.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

spot on and this is what will change everything

try getting a cab at 3am in perth on a tuesday in the outer suburbs. be prepared to wait. now with driverless vehicles, it just leaves the depot or its rest point and come gets you. no driver fatigue. its activated when needed, automatically.

now apply this to logistics, like you said with trucks, but even at a micro scale

order a small part online. order goes through instantly. automatically picked at the local warehouse, dispatched on a drone or smaller delivery device. arrives ASAP

Its the unusual stuff that would be difficult.
There's an accident, and cops are directing traffic in a certain direction.
Its easy for a human to see what's going on.
How does the computer know its a cop, how does it interpret signals. So then the cops need to have a computer car directer system as well as a manual director.

There will be lots and lots of little things to address before its all up and going. The stuff that looks really impressive right now, a car steering along a freeway, is actually one of the easier things.

 

[sunny3193]

Yeah, when you talk of those type of cars you can see why. The split rear window corvette is worth a heap now. A friend had an immaculately restored 66 GT fast back mustang that he sold before they went up. The price muscle cars are bringing now is obscene. I had a few muscle cars here and some were just dangerously stupid. I had a Valiant coupe that belonged to a guy who imported performance parts from the states and he'd put a 340 racing motor in it. All on standard tiny front disk brakes and a car with a cross member that would wind up like a rubber band under the torque. It was heaps of fun though, you got good at knowing how the car was going to misbehave.

Let you in on a secret: I am seriously thinking about buying the 2018 RHD 5.0L Convertible and paying for an aftermarket Shelby upgrade. That’s some serious car. Also some seriously stupid cash. Not happening till June 2018 though.

And have a look at this thread.
Here we are: going all petrolhead while around us posters are going responsible nellies.
LOL.

 

[StCicatriz]

Its the unusual stuff that would be difficult.
There's an accident, and cops are directing traffic in a certain direction.
Its easy for a human to see what's going on.
How does the computer know its a cop, how does it interpret signals. So then the cops need to have a computer car directer system as well as a manual director.

There will be lots and lots of little things to address before its all up and going. The stuff that looks really impressive right now, a car steering along a freeway, is actually one of the easier things.

like someone said to you, how do you know its a cop?

simple options would be, why couldnt the cops have access to stop all driverless vehicles within X meters. or ensure they all move to the right hand lane or move to the curb? they could be able to deploy an exclusion zone, remember its based off of GPS. you could have different types of exclusion zones. variety of different things.

how does google maps know the patches of congestion in real time?

the obvious is like people have mentioned, the fail safe. the ability for the driver to recontrol the vehicle or for someone at HQ too, which is what they do with the drones now and the automated trucks.

for example the little robot drones that operate on foot paths couriering goods. people's concern was whats stopping people from stealing them? or what will happen if it gets stuck, given its operated from another continent. well it has security measures and a camera and the ability for the HQ to control it/communicate with those on the floor with it (i.e. PUT THE ****ING THING DOWN, WE HAVE YOUR PHOTO, ITS GPS TRACKED, YOU ARE STEALING).

if you work within the IT industry now, you can see how this stuff isnt that far off and how quickly automation is moving

 

[StCicatriz]

Let you in on a secret: I am seriously thinking about buying the 2018 RHD 5.0L Convertible and paying for an aftermarket Shelby upgrade. That’s some serious car. Also some seriously stupid cash. Not happening till June 2018 though.

And have a look at this thread.
Here we are: going all petrolhead while around us posters are going responsible nellies.
LOL.

from memory car's are bloody cheap in the states with such a good variety. they're always trying to give em away on very low interest loans

how much would that one set ya back?