Random thoughts not worthy of a thread (Part I)

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Kangaroos4eva

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I studied accounting at uni, worked for a large global accounting firm in the private client wealth creation department which made rich people richer, have been contracted to do work for both sides of state and federal governments, contracted to do work for numerous arms of the government at state and federal level for strategic planning and business analysis. My interest is economics and economic systems.

Ideologically speaking I am socialist motivated, however, like Thomas Sowell, once you see and experience how the public service works you can't advocate the system, there are chronic flaws with every attempt to redistribute the decision making and the wealth to the people.

Capitalism puts the decision making into the hands of the competent yet psychologically deranged, there isn't one ridiculously wealthy person (that hasn't inherited that wealth) that is of sound mind.

Systems aren't flawed, it is people that are flawed. We can't get enough good people to make the right decisions for the right reasons, as soon as someone is put into power they go troppo and it is the psychologically deranged that go looking for that power and are addicted to it and they will destroy their lives, their families lives and humanity if given the opportunity to in the search for more power. They are sick people, they need to be in an institutionalised and treated, not running our companies and our governments.

As soon as Bill Gates had the power taken from him he realised what a colossal campaigner he was and now devotes his life to giving away a significant portion of his wealth and to use the rest to try and do some good.

What we need to do as regular joes is to realise anyone we put in power is stuffed before they even get into power, these old farts who have been in politics their whole life are gone, we need to find young people who haven't been exposed that long who are motivated by pushing for political reform and more importantly educating the masses as to what is going on because what people should be concerned about is how many people were conned by the mining industries ad campaign against Labor when they wanted to introduce the mining tax.

Both parties have created this system of scaremongering as a political tool for advantage rather than being honest and looking to educate the public about how things work and why. Despite our national wealth, people are dumber, they don't question authority, they don't educate themselves about politics or economics or finance so when politicians talk it is like the adults talking in the Peanuts comics, nobody knows if someone is full of shit or not and the media has long ago given up being that intermediary which informs the public.
Power corrupts as it has always done, democratic Athens, Republican Rome, its human nature, it can't be helped, people want to dominate and they need power for that. Funnily enough there was a discussion over the growth of private industry in the US has gotten to the stage that there is no longer need for the state (political instutions etc) and that the private industry has too much power for the state, but that's an entire other discussion with the Tea Leaf Party etc (bunch of nutter, woops excuse me there).

I am a major critic of the influence of the fourth estate (Mr Edmund Burke here) on influencing the policies and ideologies of parties since the late 1970s as the media power grows. Instead of holding the government accountable, they sensationalize everything, leaving those few journalists who actually have integrity (like the future Spitta2Azza) out in the cold so to speak.

I may disagree with socalist ideology being a Burkean style neo-conservative, but all systems have their values, socialism in giving some power and sharing the power with the people more, liberal capitalism in generating economic grow, conservatism in instilling positive traditions and highlighting the importance of tradition in the education system. We keep trying as a people to take the best bits and try to mash it together, but so far its failed in the Australia, because simply, Australian's are politically lazy and to a degree stubborn about change.

I may also disagree with some of Kimbo's political leanings, but l see value in all political ideologies and too much power has been given to those who don't deserve it and l am far, far away from being a socialist, so that tells you something. Economic regulation, taxation and protection of certain industries (especially for manufacturing because we can't compete) and having the guts to tax certain companies (without seriously harming their growth potential) and use that to invest firstly in infrastructure and manufacturing as l believe manufacturing is the cornerstone of any strong economy (look at how well Germany is doing and is now the leader of Europe because of manufacturing).
 

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Kangaroos4eva

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Strongly agree on all three points.

But will anyone have the political will to do it?
Well now, there's a lot of lobbying, money, power destabilization involved and it actually means someone has to do something. I'm sure there's been a few politicians over the years that have thought the same as, but the system here doesn't like change, doesn't evolve well and you turn into someone you're not. I'm sure Kevin or Tony or Julia were nice people once, politics corrupts.
 

Kimbo

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Completely agree with all of this. As you say, it's down to a lack of awareness and knowledge of the voting system in the electorate. The problem though is that this is unlikely to change anytime soon, the only way it will change is through a thorough education of the people who vote yet the major parties have no interest in providing this education as the current system suits them just fine. Alternatively, the smaller parties are unlikely to have the influence or resources to change the situation as it is.
My main response to this kangaspurs is to adopt a view that it can change. As Henry Ford said, "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right." It becomes self-fulfilling. Change starts over beers at the BBQ, or equivalent!

I've been seeing some interesting changes and commentary on UK politics where a blind survey of voters' policy preferences, without knowing whose policies they were aligned to, showed most were aligned with Greens policies, even though they may not have been aware of it. Also, as a backlash to TV preventing the Greens leader from participating in a debate, arguing membership numbers weren't high enough, lead to an increase of NMFC proportions (from 15,000 to 50,000 iirc) and a real surge of support, driven both by positive alignment, but also disaffection with the same mainstream politics we're bemoaning here. Worth looking beyond stereotypes, and beyond Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

To the extent that I get resigned about positive change I recall this statement: Australians aren't apathetic about politics, they're disillusioned idealists. I think people do want more.

The media also has a role to play in education yet as has been shown in previous elections a lot of the major publications have some sort of stake in the outcome.
The power elite who control the media want a pliable parliament who make things like media ownership laws etc. don't want a change and aren't likely to encourage it. Who takes the KISS principle to Aussie politics more than commercial media? They're the ones who make it a simple personality show.
 

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Well now, there's a lot of lobbying, money, power destabilization involved and it actually means someone has to do something. I'm sure there's been a few politicians over the years that have thought the same as, but the system here doesn't like change, doesn't evolve well and you turn into someone you're not. I'm sure Kevin or Tony or Julia were nice people once, politics corrupts.
As someone who was close to politics for many years I can vouch for seeing the altruism leached out of good people from all sides of politics by the party machines.
 

Kimbo

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I largely agree with what you've said. It is a big problem that a lot of voters don't know how to vote properly and aren't given any education on it. For example, this year at the state election the person who handed me my forms actually told me "don't worry about the stuff below the line, just put a 1 somewhere above the line" - I mean What The Actual F**k? If that is the advice you're giving prospective voters you have no place doing that job.
If it was an upper house how to vote, and it's the same as the senate, that's okay. I don't like it, but the major parties in particular encourage it because they then direct preferences the way they want. I'm one of those nuts that fills in all the numbers for the Senate. An increasingly difficult task these days to get it right first time around with the number of candidates and my proclivity for reverse order preferencing etc.

For the last few elections the Sex Party have been getting my number 1 preference because they are actually one of the few talking about policies and making some sense.
So, it's more than a Kangaroos4eva innuendo thing eh? ;)
 

Kangaroos4eva

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If it was an upper house how to vote, and it's the same as the senate, that's okay. I don't like it, but the major parties in particular encourage it because they then direct preferences the way they want. I'm one of those nuts that fills in all the numbers for the Senate. An increasingly difficult task these days to get it right first time around with the number of candidates and my proclivity for reverse order preferencing etc.

So, it's more than a Kangaroos4eva innuendo thing eh? ;)
Hey, l donkey vote, but with them first, then from top left onwards, 2, 3 etc.
 

Jay-Z

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I'm one of those nuts that fills in all the numbers for the Senate. An increasingly difficult task these days to get it right first time around with the number of candidates and my proclivity for reverse order preferencing etc.
Same and I think it's a damn shame that more people don't know how or why to do this. They even made it easier recently by saying you don't have to fill in ALL the numbers (I think only the first 7 were compulsory from memory)
 

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Kangaroos4eva

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Same and I think it's a damn shame that more people don't know how or why to do this. They even made it easier recently by saying you don't have to fill in ALL the numbers (I think only the first 7 were compulsory from memory)
I like to think sometimes if you understand the system, but most people don't, l just take the piss out of sometimes and donkey vote with the sex party first.
 

Kimbo

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Because Robert Menzies created the party and instilled liberal rather purely conservative values in the party. Fraser changed it too more of a Conservative party. The two main factions in the party are the conservatives led by Abbott who are in the majority and turnbull leads the liberal faction.
And Fraser left them because they're too conservative/neo-liberal for his liking! :eek: One wonders if the shift to the right in terms of social conservatism has been significantly due to the Country, err National, Party?
 

Kangaroos4eva

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And Fraser left them because they're too conservative/neo-liberal for his liking! :eek: One wonders if the shift to the right in terms of social conservatism has been significantly due to the Country, err National, Party?
They've certainly infiltrated the ranks since the 1970s. As l said earlier, Menzies established what he thought was a genuine liberal party, not one purely focused on achieving a social conservative utopia. Something happened between the 1970s and 1990. Maybe the wets v drys affected the party more than we think.
 

Kimbo

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Setting aside the fact that I'm not a socialist, this is simply ridiculous.

I am not, nor have I ever been a cartoon character. You seem to think I see myself as comical. The truth is clearly otherwise...

Not a fox. Next to a fox. (Boots and tunic faux leather).
 

Kangaroos4eva

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Setting aside the fact that I'm not a socialist, this is simply ridiculous.

I am not, nor have I ever been a cartoon character. You seem to think I see myself as comical. The truth is clearly otherwise...

Not a fox. Next to a fox. (Boots and tunic faux leather).
We have much to discuss.
 
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