Ranking Richmond’s players by Importance to our chances of Winning

TheUndertaker

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Oct 2, 2008
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Brothers of Destruction
1. Dustin Martin

When he plays well, surely the stats would say we win 90% of the time? He is a line breaker, a contested beast and a damaging player across the half forward line with a penetrating kick that can either hit a target, or fizzle and miss one completely!

He doesn’t waste a possession and isn’t a stat accumulator, each possession’s intention is to result in a score.

2. Dylan Grimes

At this current time, losing Dylan Grimes would be catastrophic and the end of our premiership campaign. With Alex Rance injured, Grimes has taken the oppositions most damaging forward week in and out, whether they’re 200cms or 175cms and quick as a cat. Grimes at this stage of our campaign is irreplaceable.

3. Tom Lynch

Turned the game on it’s head last week when he provided the marking target up the ground. Our loss to Collingwood in last years preliminary final was due to many reasons, we got smashed across the ground, but for one time, our defence had absolutely no answer to Mason Cox, his height and form was something no player could combat. If the match was to happen again, Lynch would bring that ball to ground for us and give us a chance to win. He’s been the perfect pick up, we needed him.

4. Alex Rance

Losing your 5x AA and the defender of a generation would be a critical blow to anyteam. Lucky (but unlucky) richmond have had since round 1 to replace Rance and although started shakey, Grimes and Vlastuin are playing their roles, whilst combining to play the intercept defender position that Rance would play.

Rance’s return next year could provide us with an exciting opportunity to keep him as our lockdown defender on the biggest forward of the opposition and nullify any chance someone like Kennedy, Naughton, Walker, etc could have on us.

5. Jack Riewoldt

The all round team game now from Jack. Brings his teammates into the game, provides a viable marking option, pushes the ball forward and is pivotal to our scoring mechanics. He hasn’t hit his next gear since his injury, but promising signs the last two performances against Brisbane. Could be ready to explode next week.

6. Nick Vlastuin

Plays the intercept defender position brilliantly. Generates our counter attack off half back and has saved plenty of goals this year. Along with Grimes, has filled in for Rance even though he’s undersized, which could be a weakness of ours that an oppositional side could exploit in the coming weeks.

7. Trent Cotchin

Most of the year has been completed without him, but when he’s in the team, he is that player with the cool head, that can rally the boys. Single handedly wrestles the momentum away from the opposition. Thrives during finals now. A big game changer.

8. Dion Prestia

Phenomenal mid core strength, seems to weave around tackles, burst through congestion and push the ball forward. Don’t think we’d have made top four this year if Prestia hadn’t played all games. Very underrated amongst AFL circles, every bit as good, if not better than Treloar, Adams, Coniglio, McCrae, Dunkley, etc.

9. David Astbury

Takes the monster of the opposition and always does a good job. Hasn’t been destroyed in a long time, very reliable and a key cog to an exceptional defense that hasn’t given up a score over 83 since the bye.

10. Bachar Houli

All Australian, big game player and an excellent kick. Has improved his overhead marking and once more, another essential player key to our successes this season. Has taken his game to another level.


Players not as valuable as I once thought
This part could be controversial!

Nankervis not as valuable as I once thought. To the point where we could even consider upgrading rucks if the opportunity arose. Nank has always provided us with a disadvantaged in the ruck, doesn’t have an exceptional leap and isn’t too tall, in many occasions it’s been those athletic juggernauts that have decimated Nank in the ruck.

Thoughts ?
 

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JAKLAUGHING

Premium Platinum
Nov 20, 2008
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I reckon you have nailed it with the importance rating of our players above...
And for me their can be no doubt...hasn't played all year...but for someone that can instantly shift the oppo momentum into reverse it is Cotch!
And is capable of having an immediate impact in giving the team momentum, that is Cotch!
Just like a switch, it is amazing with Cotch when he hit's God Mode, immediate, instant impact!
Need to stop the oppo run...Cotch!
Need some momentum against the oppo...Cotch!
Need someone to lift the GF Cup?!?!...Cotch!
 

harrythetiger

Jack Graham That Is
Sep 13, 2015
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Things have changed so much from 1 year ago

This time last year I’d have Jack, Nank, and Rance above all else then Dusty a bit behind them.
Now we’ve got Lynch so if Jack goes down, we’re still ok. Grimes has stepped up so now Rance going down is a minor inconvenience and the fact Nank’s spot in the 22 is up for debate (even though I firmly believe he belongs) speaks for itself.

Right now, the most important player currently playing is Grimes. It already took most of the first half of the season to adjust to a Rance-less defence, if we lost Grimes now I think we’d really struggle.
Then Dusty, who is of similar importance to last year, but due to the emergence of others has been bumped up. He brings the X-factor that I’m not sure you could replace with any player in the league.
After that I’m not too sure, I’d be tempted to put Lambert very high on this list as our midfield seems to operate far better with him in there, even though he doesn’t rack up big numbers himself.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
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In a weird way right now I'd say Soldo. It's not that he is that awesome like the guys listed. But he seems to make the midfield work much better. When he stops the oppo ruck, and gives us some lovely service it makes the mids kill the game. But he also is very good at that structural thing of making the contests trend our way. So more a structural thing. But I wonder whether with another week under his belt Nank will come back into form.

Anyway, out of left field.
 

sregit

Club Legend
Feb 9, 2012
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From last week's team:
1. Martin
2. Grimes
3. Lynch
4. Edwards
5. Prestia
6. Vlastuin
7. Cotchin
8. Riewoldt
9. Astbury
10. Soldo
11. Lambert
12. Caddy
13. Graham
14. Houli
15. Castagna
16. Rioli
17. Nankervis
18. Broad
19. Bolton
20. Ellis
21. Baker
22. Short
Ellis is the weakest by miles. Baker is underrated.
 

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richoatthedisco

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 18, 2007
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Ellis is the weakest by miles. Baker is underrated.
Not about who's better, it's who's more important. Wing is the more important position and few players can play it. We could slot a number of players in as a small back.

Now put your list up and let me tell you you're wrong.
 

leftback66

Draftee
Jul 29, 2014
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Richmond
A different take is that our most important players are the so called bottom six, if the better players hold their form then they become crucial...
Soldo, Short, Broad, Ellis, Castagna, Baker would be our least rated players.
I think Graham is really important, other sides will never tag him but he can kick goals on midfielders who only run one way and if he isn't doing that he is a tackling machine who helps the ball spill out to Edwards, Martin etc
 

Marcel Proust

Club Legend
Sep 6, 2018
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Not about who's better, it's who's more important. Wing is the more important position and few players can play it. We could slot a number of players in as a small back.

Now put your list up and let me tell you you're wrong.
If you lose Baker and Short who is the attacking/skilled defenders? back to DES again maybe...

you could play some random like Markov on the Ellis-wing and lose very little
 

richoatthedisco

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 18, 2007
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If you lose Baker and Short who is the attacking/skilled defenders?

back to DES again

you could play some random like Markov on the Ellis-wing and lose very little
Not in your wildest dreams could you play Markov on the wing in an AFL final.

Ellis is a premiership small defender, he could go back. It's an easier role. If Stack proves his fitness he's in and one of Short or Baker is out. Menadue could do it. Eggs. Pickett.
 

Marcel Proust

Club Legend
Sep 6, 2018
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Not in your wildest dreams could you play Markov on the wing in an AFL final.
Why not? he had a game with like 700 meters gained at half back at AFL level - its not like the wing is that radically different

Like i said, Markov was a random example but there are a boat load of options; Baker / Short >>> Ellis IMO. Short was no.1 in the afl for meters gained last season iirc... Baker is a highly talented kid who has tremendous upside.

Ellis is a premiership small defender, he could go back. It's an easier role. If Stack proves his fitness he's in and one of Short or Baker is out. Menadue could do it. Eggs. Pickett.
I was thinking the premiership defense was something like Rance, Grimes, Vlastuin, Astbury, Broad, Houli... Ellis cant "go back" to being a defender. He is totally rubbish, even more so that the wing when he doesnt have to play on anyone and can be hidden. H
 
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SunshineTiger

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Jan 3, 2012
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1. Dustin Martin

When he plays well, surely the stats would say we win 90% of the time? He is a line breaker, a contested beast and a damaging player across the half forward line with a penetrating kick that can either hit a target, or fizzle and miss one completely!

He doesn’t waste a possession and isn’t a stat accumulator, each possession’s intention is to result in a score.

2. Dylan Grimes

At this current time, losing Dylan Grimes would be catastrophic and the end of our premiership campaign. With Alex Rance injured, Grimes has taken the oppositions most damaging forward week in and out, whether they’re 200cms or 175cms and quick as a cat. Grimes at this stage of our campaign is irreplaceable.

3. Tom Lynch

Turned the game on it’s head last week when he provided the marking target up the ground. Our loss to Collingwood in last years preliminary final was due to many reasons, we got smashed across the ground, but for one time, our defence had absolutely no answer to Mason Cox, his height and form was something no player could combat. If the match was to happen again, Lynch would bring that ball to ground for us and give us a chance to win. He’s been the perfect pick up, we needed him.

4. Alex Rance

Losing your 5x AA and the defender of a generation would be a critical blow to anyteam. Lucky (but unlucky) richmond have had since round 1 to replace Rance and although started shakey, Grimes and Vlastuin are playing their roles, whilst combining to play the intercept defender position that Rance would play.

Rance’s return next year could provide us with an exciting opportunity to keep him as our lockdown defender on the biggest forward of the opposition and nullify any chance someone like Kennedy, Naughton, Walker, etc could have on us.

5. Jack Riewoldt

The all round team game now from Jack. Brings his teammates into the game, provides a viable marking option, pushes the ball forward and is pivotal to our scoring mechanics. He hasn’t hit his next gear since his injury, but promising signs the last two performances against Brisbane. Could be ready to explode next week.

6. Nick Vlastuin

Plays the intercept defender position brilliantly. Generates our counter attack off half back and has saved plenty of goals this year. Along with Grimes, has filled in for Rance even though he’s undersized, which could be a weakness of ours that an oppositional side could exploit in the coming weeks.

7. Trent Cotchin

Most of the year has been completed without him, but when he’s in the team, he is that player with the cool head, that can rally the boys. Single handedly wrestles the momentum away from the opposition. Thrives during finals now. A big game changer.

8. Dion Prestia

Phenomenal mid core strength, seems to weave around tackles, burst through congestion and push the ball forward. Don’t think we’d have made top four this year if Prestia hadn’t played all games. Very underrated amongst AFL circles, every bit as good, if not better than Treloar, Adams, Coniglio, McCrae, Dunkley, etc.

9. David Astbury

Takes the monster of the opposition and always does a good job. Hasn’t been destroyed in a long time, very reliable and a key cog to an exceptional defense that hasn’t given up a score over 83 since the bye.

10. Bachar Houli

All Australian, big game player and an excellent kick. Has improved his overhead marking and once more, another essential player key to our successes this season. Has taken his game to another level.


Players not as valuable as I once thought
This part could be controversial!

Nankervis not as valuable as I once thought. To the point where we could even consider upgrading rucks if the opportunity arose. Nank has always provided us with a disadvantaged in the ruck, doesn’t have an exceptional leap and isn’t too tall, in many occasions it’s been those athletic juggernauts that have decimated Nank in the ruck.

Thoughts ?
No Shane Edwards?
 

richoatthedisco

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 18, 2007
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Why not? he had a game with like 700 meters gained at half back at AFL level

its not like the wing is that radically different

Like i said, Markov was a random example but there are a boat load of options

Baker / Short >>> Ellis IMO

Short was no.1 in the afl for meters gained last season iirc... Baker is a highly talented kid who has tremendous upside



I was thinking the premiership defense was something like Rance, Grimes, Vlastuin, Astbury, Broad, Houli

Ellis cant "go back" to being a defender. He is totally rubbish, even more so that the wing when he doesnt have to play on anyone and can be hidden. H
We play seven defenders, Ellis was one of them (played mostly on Charlie Cameron).

Markov can't get a kick in the VFL and has never played wing at either level.

Baker is a better player than Ellis perhaps, but the role he's currently playing is less important, hence I had him lower.

My view on Short and the meaninglessness of the metres gained stat is well-established.

If you want to nitpick at my list, let's see yours.
 

Jack5

Senior List
Sep 15, 2017
249
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Not putting him at the top of the list but think Soldo's ability to halve the tap contest with most other rucks is a big lift with 666. Got a feeling 666 is going win or lose a team a big one that they wouldn't have been able to last year.
 

Mr Unbelievable

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Nov 27, 2014
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1. Dustin Martin

When he plays well, surely the stats would say we win 90% of the time? He is a line breaker, a contested beast and a damaging player across the half forward line with a penetrating kick that can either hit a target, or fizzle and miss one completely!

He doesn’t waste a possession and isn’t a stat accumulator, each possession’s intention is to result in a score.

2. Dylan Grimes

At this current time, losing Dylan Grimes would be catastrophic and the end of our premiership campaign. With Alex Rance injured, Grimes has taken the oppositions most damaging forward week in and out, whether they’re 200cms or 175cms and quick as a cat. Grimes at this stage of our campaign is irreplaceable.

3. Tom Lynch

Turned the game on it’s head last week when he provided the marking target up the ground. Our loss to Collingwood in last years preliminary final was due to many reasons, we got smashed across the ground, but for one time, our defence had absolutely no answer to Mason Cox, his height and form was something no player could combat. If the match was to happen again, Lynch would bring that ball to ground for us and give us a chance to win. He’s been the perfect pick up, we needed him.

4. Alex Rance

Losing your 5x AA and the defender of a generation would be a critical blow to anyteam. Lucky (but unlucky) richmond have had since round 1 to replace Rance and although started shakey, Grimes and Vlastuin are playing their roles, whilst combining to play the intercept defender position that Rance would play.

Rance’s return next year could provide us with an exciting opportunity to keep him as our lockdown defender on the biggest forward of the opposition and nullify any chance someone like Kennedy, Naughton, Walker, etc could have on us.

5. Jack Riewoldt

The all round team game now from Jack. Brings his teammates into the game, provides a viable marking option, pushes the ball forward and is pivotal to our scoring mechanics. He hasn’t hit his next gear since his injury, but promising signs the last two performances against Brisbane. Could be ready to explode next week.

6. Nick Vlastuin

Plays the intercept defender position brilliantly. Generates our counter attack off half back and has saved plenty of goals this year. Along with Grimes, has filled in for Rance even though he’s undersized, which could be a weakness of ours that an oppositional side could exploit in the coming weeks.

7. Trent Cotchin

Most of the year has been completed without him, but when he’s in the team, he is that player with the cool head, that can rally the boys. Single handedly wrestles the momentum away from the opposition. Thrives during finals now. A big game changer.

8. Dion Prestia

Phenomenal mid core strength, seems to weave around tackles, burst through congestion and push the ball forward. Don’t think we’d have made top four this year if Prestia hadn’t played all games. Very underrated amongst AFL circles, every bit as good, if not better than Treloar, Adams, Coniglio, McCrae, Dunkley, etc.

9. David Astbury

Takes the monster of the opposition and always does a good job. Hasn’t been destroyed in a long time, very reliable and a key cog to an exceptional defense that hasn’t given up a score over 83 since the bye.

10. Bachar Houli

All Australian, big game player and an excellent kick. Has improved his overhead marking and once more, another essential player key to our successes this season. Has taken his game to another level.


Players not as valuable as I once thought
This part could be controversial!

Nankervis not as valuable as I once thought. To the point where we could even consider upgrading rucks if the opportunity arose. Nank has always provided us with a disadvantaged in the ruck, doesn’t have an exceptional leap and isn’t too tall, in many occasions it’s been those athletic juggernauts that have decimated Nank in the ruck.

Thoughts ?
Fantastic write up ... great work ... always appreciate your input here ;)
 

Rancid_Beasties

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Great write up but Shane Edwards very stiff. I would have him #2 or #3 on your list. We can shuffle things around to somewhat compensate for all of those players except Dusty and Grimes. We do not, however, have another Shane Edwards...yet (Bolton well on his way).

He is "the Richmond stat" personified.
 

TigerImposter

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Bottom six win you Premierships and they also can lose them. Have we got a better bottom six than our likely opponents is more important to me as we know what our stars are capable of on the big stage? It’s the bottom six that get exploited, exposed and found out in big games.

Bottom six for me are
Short
Soldo
Baker
Bolton
Castagna

and a light year gap to

Ellis

If these guys either complete their roles satisfactorily on the day or go over and beyond then we’re a greater chance of winning. In saying this I think we have a strong bottom six apart from Ellis due to his atrocious finals record.
 

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