Ranking VFL/AFL clubs - which has been the most successful?

[BallaratBulldog]

Kinda weird how we only have four spoons despite everything else. Startinf in the 80s we have been pretty decent giving ourselves enough good chances

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Essendon’s premiership tally * should also note they are the only club busted salary cap cheating in a flag year (1993), and it’s highly probable they did in 2000 too, according to Ricky Nixon, manager of Hird and Lloyd.

Lol.

Have a read. There was barely a club under the cap for about the first 10 or 12 years of it.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/01/07/salarycap

The AFL record books show that the 1993 premiers, Essendon is the only side to have been adjudged to have breached the salary cap in their premiership year. This is outrageously incorrect, but we will get to that.

 

[Lsta062]

So Collingwood has the most 'away' wins...

Does this include 'away' wins at its home ground? - Eg Richmond V Collingwood at the MCG?

Home wins also includes “home” games against MCG tenants like Collingwood vs Richmond whereas most of West Coast’s home games are against travelling sides. The two metrics end up averaging each other out.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Premiership win rates need to be adjusted for overall teams in the comp. That is the largest discrepancy in any accurate analysis.

Also the wooden spoon metruc is pointless, especially considering the modern day advent of tanking. A team that alternates between flag and spoon is far more successful than one that wins a flag every 10 years but doesn't win a spoon.

 

[Art Corvelay]

Lol.

Have a read. There was barely a club under the cap for about the first 10 or 12 years of it.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/01/07/salarycap

The AFL record books show that the 1993 premiers, Essendon is the only side to have been adjudged to have breached the salary cap in their premiership year. This is outrageously incorrect, but we will get to that.

No danger of any references in that blog post?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No danger of any references in that blog post?

Lol. Ok.

 

[Paul P Mark]

Premiership win rates need to be adjusted for overall teams in the comp. That is the largest discrepancy in any accurate analysis.

Also the wooden spoon metruc is pointless, especially considering the modern day advent of tanking. A team that alternates between flag and spoon is far more successful than one that wins a flag every 10 years but doesn't win a spoon.

Interesting point. I thought it could be a sign of club pride to want to avoid finishing on the bottom. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Honestly I feel the AFL is such a different comp from the VFL throughout most of it's history that comparisons are almost meaningless. Collingwood especially were dominant in an amateur league with relatively few teams. In the past 50 years they've only won 2 flags, which is kind of hard to believe.

If we just limit it to the AFL era, post 1990, a system that weights years per premiership or premierships per year and overall win rate might be the best. Sometimes the fewer metrics the better.

 

[Gavin Excell]

If we finish top this year and say make the GF will Geelong move past Hawthorn on your ladder

This is very important to me

 

[Art Corvelay]

In the past 50 years they've only won 2 flags, which is kind of hard to believe.

Both in the AFL era too.

 

[Paul P Mark]

Honestly I feel the AFL is such a different comp from the VFL throughout most of it's history that comparisons are almost meaningless. Collingwood especially were dominant in an amateur league with relatively few teams. In the past 50 years they've only won 2 flags, which is kind of hard to believe.

If we just limit it to the AFL era, post 1990, a system that weights years per premiership or premierships per year and overall win rate might be the best. Sometimes the fewer metrics the better.

Perhaps I should do another one, same metrics, but only using results from 1990 onwards.

 

[Fadge]

Great concept for a thread, and appreciate all the work you have put into it, but any analysis that doesn't have West Coast, Hawthorn and Collingwood as the top 3 is seriously flawed.

Lots of double dipping (i.e. most premierships, most Grand Finals and Grand Final win rate).

I agree that fewer metrics and weightings for each of those metrics, and average percentiles for teams performances in each of those metrics, would provide for better analysis.

Something like:
50% - Premiership strike rate (taking into account number of teams in the competition)
30% - Total win rate
20% - Making the finals strike rate

Richmond supporters would also want you to include membership numbers.

 

[Paul P Mark]

Great concept for a thread, and appreciate all the work you have put into it, but any analysis that doesn't have West Coast, Hawthorn and Collingwood as the top 3 is seriously flawed.

Lots of double dipping (i.e. most premierships, most Grand Finals and Grand Final win rate).

I agree that fewer metrics and weightings for each of those metrics, and average percentiles for teams performances in each of those metrics, would provide for better analysis.

Something like:
50% - Premiership strike rate (taking into account number of teams in the competition)
30% - Total win rate
20% - Making the finals strike rate

Richmond supporters would also want you to include membership numbers.

There a lot of ways you can shape it with weightings, etc. but I tried to keep it as simple as possible. No universal way unfortunately. I'm pretty satisfied with the clear top four though. Nice Tiges jibe btw

 

[Kwality]

I’ve concluded the AFL needs to get rid of the GF, and introduce a finals round robin.

Suffering deprivation syndrome, dont, your time will come & hopefully you wont be as overbearing as another club that has only ever made one AFL Grand Final & cant get over themselves - you blokes have been there, hopefully it wont be such a shock that results in a boarish, 'what about me' behavior.

IF you are referring to the sleazy backroom Grand Final deal that improves your chances if you are good enough to get there, a round robin or a best of 3?

 

[FrustratedTiger]

A couple of nitpicking points. Sydney's and South Melbourne's data should be merged. They are not 2 separate clubs, rather a relocated one. Brisbane Bears & Fitzroy were merged clubs so either you should have the Bears data listed separately from the Brisbane Lions or merge the Fitzroy data into the Brisbane Lions data. Given the Lions 3-peat was influenced by the merger (players from both teams), I think the latter should apply.

 

[Kwality]

Lol.

Have a read. There was barely a club under the cap for about the first 10 or 12 years of it.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/01/07/salarycap

The AFL record books show that the 1993 premiers, Essendon is the only side to have been adjudged to have breached the salary cap in their premiership year. This is outrageously incorrect, but we will get to that.

Some clubs ignored the AFLs warnings yes/no?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Some clubs ignored the AFLs warnings yes/no?

Yep. They even had a moratorium on it. Essendon ignored it. Smart.

 

[Paul P Mark]

A couple of nitpicking points. Sydney's and South Melbourne's data should be merged. They are not 2 separate clubs, rather a relocated one. Brisbane Bears & Fitzroy were merged clubs so either you should have the Bears data listed separately from the Brisbane Lions or merge the Fitzroy data into the Brisbane Lions data. Given the Lions 3-peat was influenced by the merger (players from both teams), I think the latter should apply.

That is an area for debate - I personally, along with many others, view Sydney as a separate club from Sth Melb. I also view Fitzroy as separate from the Bears/Lions. 'Relocation', in reality, is when one club folds and is replaced by a new one.

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

This all means nothing without VFA flags

 

[Paul P Mark]

Where the year's clubs sat out of competition during the wars taken into account?

All tables and of course the final standings have now been updated to reflect this. Carlton still comes out on top but Bombers knock Eagles out of third place.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Perhaps I should do another one, same metrics, but only using results from 1990 onwards.

Yeah I'd be interested to see the results.

 

[Underarm]

That is an area for debate - I personally, along with many others, view Sydney as a separate club from Sth Melb. I also view Fitzroy as separate from the Bears/Lions. 'Relocation', in reality, is when one club folds and is replaced by a new one.

Relocation is not the same as folding. They are 1 club. That's not up for debate at all.

South Melbourne relocated; Fitzroy folded and Brisbane just changed its name and logo.

 

[Kwality]

This all means nothing without VFA flags

Meaningless with VFA ..

 

[Paul P Mark]

Relocation is not the same as folding. They are 1 club. That's not up for debate at all.

South Melbourne relocated; Fitzroy folded and Brisbane just changed its name and logo.

I believe South Melbourne virtually folded. Sydney Swans were formed. Can't be viewed as the same club as far as I'm concerned. Different name, different city. Perhaps a topic for another post.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Lol.

Have a read. There was barely a club under the cap for about the first 10 or 12 years of it.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/01/07/salarycap

The AFL record books show that the 1993 premiers, Essendon is the only side to have been adjudged to have breached the salary cap in their premiership year. This is outrageously incorrect, but we will get to that.

Coming from the organisation that fined Melbourne $500k for not tanking and then proceeded to pay the fine themselves does it surprise you?