Autopsy Rate Our 2014 Draft Class

[Phhht]

What's the Maggies forward line gonna look like next year?

I have a feeling we'll see Dougal learning his craft in defense at times next year. With Butcher, Shaw, Harvey, Frampton and even Redden when he gets up and about, we can try out Dougal down back with Clurey and StoneCold.

 

[Portress Hill]

They never agreed to it, said all along they wouldn't accept our 2nd rounder. In the end we missed out on a player that at no stage in the last 4 years has looked likely to have a lengthy AFL career, or possibly be on an AFL list this time next year.



Redden, Shaw, Amon, AhChee, Colquhoun, Clurey will be pushing for selection. And these are guys that are 29-34th on our list, not including others like Mitchell, Moore, Butcher, Neade, Young, Impey who hold that 23-28 spot on our list. How much depth do you need? If you are regularly pushing into guys that are 29-34th on our list or further, our season will be shot regardless.



Who was available that was a) achievable and b) would suit our side?

It was by far the worst free agency crop so far.

i agree you make some good points. but ask yourself. how much has our list gotten better. now compare that to each of the other teams and how much their list got better. we are a great team, but depth is only just starting to thicken over the past few years. i dont think this off season added to that depth of quality at all.

quality depth wins premierships. yep you need the best 22 on GF day, but that 22 surely wont get you into the top 4 cos there will be a number of injuries along the way.

 

[Rising Power]

Bruggemann might have a tough task cracking a game next year with these tall kids coming in to the Magpies side. I wonder if he has an out clause in his contract...

 

[raman]

Bruggemann might have a tough task cracking a game next year with these tall kids coming in to the Magpies side. I wonder if he has an out clause in his contract...

I would assume our Maggies top-up list is a year by year proposition anyway...

 

[mic59]

With picks that late I don't want to give any grade on the picks themselves. On the apparent decision to select mainly talls I will give a B-, had we gone smalls only that would have got a D- and mainly smalls a D+. In my opinion the best would have come had we selected two tall(196-198) defenders, a tall ruck(200+) and a tall forward(195+). All obviously project players but with late picks that's what you get. I would have given a selection like that a B+, I don't reckon we could have done any better.

 

[Alberton]

Another good batch of country kids, hope they fit in well and achieve their potential at our club.
Look forward to seeing them playing for the maggies soon.

My understanding is that talls take longer to develop than smalls, so these guys plus the next group of runners will be key parts of our third premiership window.

 

[Portress Hill]

i agree. we prob couldnt have done any better with the picks. my grudge is how we landed in a spot to only have those picks.

 

[raman]

i agree. we prob couldnt have done any better with the picks. my grudge is how we landed in a spot to only have those picks.

 

[Rising Power]

I would assume our Maggies top-up list is a year by year proposition anyway...

Yeah but didn't he just recently re-sign? I dunno, whatever anyway lol.

 

[El_Scorcho]

i agree you make some good points. but ask yourself. how much has our list gotten better. now compare that to each of the other teams and how much their list got better. we are a great team, but depth is only just starting to thicken over the past few years. i dont think this off season added to that depth of quality at all.

quality depth wins premierships. yep you need the best 22 on GF day, but that 22 surely wont get you into the top 4 cos there will be a number of injuries along the way.

We are unquestionably closer to a premiership now than we were before trade week.

We have the same depth we had last year, plus a top 3 or 4 AFL ruckman who can help out up forward.

Our depth is better, purely because most of our depth exists in the form of developing players and those players are now a year older.

What have we lost from this time last year? Cassisi. That's it, and he had declined from his best anyway. I don't see any other player on our list on the way down in terms of form.

 

[Portress Hill]

We are unquestionably closer to a premiership now than we were before trade week.

We have the same depth we had last year, plus a top 3 or 4 AFL ruckman who can help out up forward.

Our depth is better, purely because most of our depth exists in the form of developing players and those players are now a year older.

What have we lost from this time last year? Cassisi. That's it, and he had declined from his best anyway. I don't see any other player on our list on the way down in terms of form.

but you havent compared to other clubs we are competing with and whether they went forward or backwards.

 

[Portmanteau]

Given the picks we were using, if one of these guys turns into a regular AFL contributor we've done well.

 

[El_Scorcho]

but you havent compared to other clubs we are competing with and whether they went forward or backwards.

At the pointy end of the table where we are competing over the next couple of years, nobody goes forward or backwards on draft day.

Sydney have gotten a bit of a gem in Isaac Heeney but unless he's a Wines type, he's probably not going to winning games by himself in 2015.

Hawthorn have nobody who will make an impact next year. Freo didn't get anyone who will make their midfield significantly better in the next year or two.

Before that, Hawthorn got Frawley in the free agency which will improve them slightly. They also got O'Rourke but he wont make them better while they're still competing. Freo and Sydney did nothing in the trade period or free agency as far as I remember.

We comfortably, comfortably landed the biggest fish and will get the most improvement out of list changes over the offseason. We might not win the flag, but if we did, it wont be because we made a mistake or failed to get our man at the trade or draft table.

 

[Portmanteau]

I remember something missionpossible said on the podcast last year in regards to sliders etc. in that the media and the amateur phantomers drum up support for some players but in reality the clubs never rated them that highly to begin with. So a player sliding (think David Gourdis, Jonathan Marsh, James Battersby and now McKenzie) may look like a big surprise on the outside, in reality they just went at their natural level.

Im not fussed we missed out on McKenzie.

Spot on. People also get caught up in measurements and draft camp times. 198cm, 100kg looks great on paper but the guy who us 193cm, 89kg who can actually play isn't as sexy a pick.

 

[Andre]

but you havent compared to other clubs we are competing with and whether they went forward or backwards.

At the pointy end of the table where we are competing over the next couple of years, nobody goes forward or backwards on draft day.

Sydney have gotten a bit of a gem in Isaac Heeney but unless he's a Wines type, he's probably not going to winning games by himself in 2015.

Hawthorn have nobody who will make an impact next year. Freo didn't get anyone who will make their midfield significantly better in the next year or two.

Before that, Hawthorn got Frawley in the free agency which will improve them slightly. They also got O'Rourke but he wont make them better while they're still competing. Freo and Sydney did nothing in the trade period or free agency as far as I remember.

We comfortably, comfortably landed the biggest fish and will get the most improvement out of list changes over the offseason. We might not win the flag, but if we did, it wont be because we made a mistake or failed to get our man at the trade or draft table.

Adding to El_Scorcho if you are talking about clubs we are competing against then you are talking about ones that are a threat in 2015/2016, not all clubs.

Sydney - lost Malceski, who was a wall against us last year. Just about best against us at AO. Goodes isn't any younger and they were barred from topping up during trade / FA period. They start 2015 behind where they finished 2014.
Hawks - Frawley improves them, but they have a stack of 30+ players. Some will slow down this year and their young players are ok, but not the same class. They rely on the older players excessively. IMO will start 2015 behind where they finished 2014.
Freo - no trades and their key players in McPharlin, Pav and Sandi are 30+ and are going to have even less impact next year. Fyfe is their main gun and he's now going to be starting off a truncated pre-season. Other than Fyfe they rely excessively on their older players. Start 2015 behind where they finished 2014.
Essendon - lost a key player in Ryder, traded in Cooney who with his knees is just about the worst player you'd bring in now there's an interchange cap. It was the usual suspects - Watson, Goddard etc. who are older that they are relying on. Definitely start 2015 behind 2014. Even before any suspensions wipe them out of finals contention.
North Melbourne - lol N0rf. Looked at Harvey and decided he's so good because he's old and recruited for a reboot of Dad's Army. IMO were shocking in trade/FA period. Still not good enough for 2015 - probably even with their 2014, but ensured medium term their list is shittier for it.
Richmond - Meh. Neither here or there.
Gold Coast - big improvers - Malceski will help their defense and provide leadership. Plus a decent coach. Can't see them top 4, but I'll be surprised if they miss the 8. (assuming Ablett doesn't drop off).
Adelaide - no ready made midfielder to replace Thompson. Yes, we have Kornes, but he's not an over 30 in and under player, Thompson is. Lever may be good in 2 - 3 years, but he's no immediate replacement for Rutten and Adelaide's tall forwards were already their strength. Perplexed TBH by some of their picks.
Geelong - the slide started last year and even before their players going they were going to slide further in 2015 as their old stars either are gone or slow down even more.

The rest aren't a serious threat in 2015 that I can see (*one will be by the usual bolter up the ladder, but can't pick which). And most likely not 2016.

Now come to Port.
2015 - 3rd Burgess pre-season under the belts. Outside of K. Cornes and Schulz no player at an age where they should be down on 2014 (if not injured). And of the finalists from 2014 the team who should get the most natural improvement from their young players. And that's before mentioning Ryder.

So plenty of sides on the up in 2015, from lower on the ladder, but other than Port the only finals bound one I see improving is GC, with North staying even and the rest worse to varying degrees.

 

[Powerage]

At the pointy end of the table where we are competing over the next couple of years, nobody goes forward or backwards on draft day.

Sydney have gotten a bit of a gem in Isaac Heeney but unless he's a Wines type, he's probably not going to winning games by himself in 2015.

Hawthorn have nobody who will make an impact next year. Freo didn't get anyone who will make their midfield significantly better in the next year or two.

Before that, Hawthorn got Frawley in the free agency which will improve them slightly. They also got O'Rourke but he wont make them better while they're still competing. Freo and Sydney did nothing in the trade period or free agency as far as I remember.

We comfortably, comfortably landed the biggest fish and will get the most improvement out of list changes over the offseason. We might not win the flag, but if we did, it wont be because we made a mistake or failed to get our man at the trade or draft table.

I also was annoyed that we couldn't get Gorringe, and believe we played slightly overs for a player who has an unknown ASADA suspension hanging over his head. Only time will tell whether it was worth the two picks we gave.

However, regarding other teams who are also premiership contenders. All 3 teams mentioned above have more key players than us over 30 whose form will most likely decline next year. Geelong also belong to this list.

 

[Macca19]

but you havent compared to other clubs we are competing with and whether they went forward or backwards.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/features/retirements-and-delistings

I think if anything we've gone slightly ahead of the others

 

[PowerSupremacy]

This is a very smart draft for us.
Our 22 is set. Hell, our 25 is set. Our immediate needs were fixed with Paddy.
The club is eager to keep this unit together.
So instead of drafting to impact on a very strong 22 (not really something you can do from 56 anyway) they're looking ahead.

The club is hoping that 2 or 3 of these blokes will develop well enough to be the future spine of the club.
Butch isn't coming on as we'd hoped.
Shaw needs more mongrel.
Harvey looks alright, but that was only his first season.
In 5 or 6 years, we'll be drafting the smalls to play around the feet of these blokes.

In drafts gone by we've been crying out because we haven't grabbed any falls.
Now we have,

I really like the look of these lads.
Good competitors in the air.

Burgo will add the engines and the athleticism they lack now.

The rookie draft will be interesting. I expect smalls to be grabbed there.

IMO, this is the draft of a team at it's peak setting the foundations for the future.

 

[Nemisis]

I cant believe whatshisname was still available

 

[BrockBlitz]

The thing that gives everyone a boner about McKenzie is the 198, 105+kg and the sub 2.9 20m sprint. Thats plugga like stuff.

 

[Jason K]

In the end we missed out on a player that at no stage in the last 4 years has looked likely to have a lengthy AFL career, or possibly be on an AFL list this time next year.

Also turned out to be a dickhead

 

[Jason K]

i agree you make some good points. but ask yourself. how much has our list gotten better. now compare that to each of the other teams and how much their list got better. we are a great team, but depth is only just starting to thicken over the past few years. i dont think this off season added to that depth of quality at all.

quality depth wins premierships. yep you need the best 22 on GF day, but that 22 surely wont get you into the top 4 cos there will be a number of injuries along the way.

Our list should be better just by natural improvement as we were last year the 3rd youngest list. Another pre-season into Wines, Wingard, Neade, Impey, etc will be better than churning over list fillers to look active.

We obviously had a goal this offseason. We were unbelievably lucky that Lobbe got through the way he did last season and the football dept didn't want to try that again.

I never liked the Paddy Ryder for 1st 2 picks as I still believe he will be unavailable for a large chunk of the season, but, I don't think there is a lot the recruiting could have done better to be honest.

 

[Schulzenfest]

our coach's quote (paraphrased). one man wont win a premiership.

yet we have placed our entire offseason's eggs in one basket. Paddy Ryder. You want to see how the great teams do it. look at what the hawks achieved this off season.

i would have swapped gorringe for our second rounder as soon as they agreed to it. then let the ryder deal play with what we had left. i woudnt have released newton either. even if we go a pick in the 50's for him that would have been us getting Oscar mcdonald instead of some unknown guy. all these little things could have accumulated into it being a real good off season. insead for me its just meh.

So in summary:

• You would've given Gold Coast pick 37 for Gorringe even though a) Gold Coast wouldn't have accepted pick 37 and b) even if Gold Coast would have accepted pick 37, that would have screwed up Ryder trade.
• You 'wouldn't have released' Ben Newton, even though Newton was uncontracted so we had no choice in the matter.
• You would've used the pick in the 50's that we could have traded Ben Newton for to draft Oscar McDonald, even though nobody offered us a pick in the 50's for Newton.

It would have been nice to have Ryder, Gorringe, and Newton/McDonald. It also would have been nice to sign up Gary Ablett and Buddy Franklin. Neither of those options have any basis in reality though.

 

[Portress Hill]

So in summary:

• You would've given Gold Coast pick 37 for Gorringe even though a) Gold Coast wouldn't have accepted pick 37 and b) even if Gold Coast would have accepted pick 37, that would have screwed up Ryder trade.
• You 'wouldn't have released' Ben Newton, even though Newton was uncontracted so we had no choice in the matter.
• You would've used the pick in the 50's that we could have traded Ben Newton for to draft Oscar McDonald, even though nobody offered us a pick in the 50's for Newton.

It would have been nice to have Ryder, Gorringe, and Newton/McDonald. It also would have been nice to sign up Gary Ablett and Buddy Franklin. Neither of those options have any basis in reality though.

im just not going to sit around here and give each other blow jobs over this pre season like everyone else seems to be.

in response.....

if GC were never going to accept pick 37, then we wouldnt have been promising him he will be drafted till the last day. reality is that they would have accepted it, but we didnt do it cos we didnt want to upset essendon.

newton - i know noone offered us a pick in the 50's for him, but we didnt force anyone to either. we just rolled over and delisted him. i woulda been telling him that if he isnt traded then its off to the draft, of which he would have had to do if we didnt delist him. he wasnt a free agent until we voluntarily delisted him. we would never have gotten back what we paid for him, but it the issue was forced i reckon we coulda squeezed out melbournes pick 52

dont think it woulda screwed up the ryder trade. we just blinked first. if we used that pick 37 early on and got it out of the equation, then the bombers would have had to choose between pick 17, and the legal route. i still think pick 17 was on the money. remember that they went on to use that 37 on a brownlow medalist with a few years left.

 

[PowerDrafter]

I was fairly happy with our picks, Geoff Parker reasoned them all out well.

Big Dougal looks like a great pick up, him, Mason Shaw and Mitch Harvey can all develop nicely together, they look like contrasting themselves really well in years to come, with Schulz and Westhoff both nearly 30 it is great to see us bring together 3 really solid kids. John Butcher is probably 5th in line and honestly that is a good thing, it puts pressure on all of them and that is a great thing.

Austin tooks like a really nice project player, with our defensive stocks so high as it is it allows him to really develop for the next 3-5 years then push for senior selection

I was surprised with Jesse Palmer, his a really nice mark for his size, knows where the goals (and the behinds) are which is a bonus, his tank is questionable but if he develops he could become a Ryan O'Keefe type and move into the midfield late in his career but will take a while to develop such a tank, he looks like a nice Angus replacement but with a little less versitility

Billy Frampton is a great pick up, having such a raw and athletic ability is fantastic, his foot skills are amazing for someone of his size. With Lobbe and Ryder to teach him he could step right in as soon as he is ready

Overral I was really happy with our selections

Josh Glenn and Peter Bampton still sit in the draft, hopefully we can rookie list them both as Bampton will play 200 games for any club he is a superstar and Glenn would add great depth to half back, maybe give Pittard and Broadbent a chop out as he would be able to play in his first year.