Rate our youngsters

The Zebra

Cancelled
Jun 29, 2004
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North Melbourne
This was done pre-season through a rating system thought up by speedy.
Only Criteria is players have to have played senior football and be 23 or under.
Numbers also reflect how I rank them. .


Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
1. Wells
2. Smith

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
3. Hale
4. McIntosh
5. McConnell
6. Swallow

Possible quality player (top 12 at club)
7. Petrie
8. Firrito
9. Moran



Probable good player (top 22 at club)
10. Trotter
11. Pratt
12. Perry


Possible good player (top 22 at club)
13. Gibson
14. Schwarze


Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
15. Urch
16. Grima
17. Lower
18. Jones

Very unlikely to make it past delisting
19. Sansbury
20. Perkins

Only two players 23 or under on our list have yet to play a game - Riggio and Hutchinson

Changes for me from Feb:

  • Smith moved into the top bracket and above Hale. His pre-season was the best I have seen in a long time, and definitely the best ever from a 19 year old. Arrogance and execution in 191cm body. He can be anything.

  • McIntosh jumped up to possibly top 50. People haven't given enough credit to effectively his debut seasons. So much scope, still raw but a pretty good AFL season. Will get so much better

  • McConnell and Swallow slot straight into possible elite. I still rate McConnell above Swallow, but Swallow would be the more certain bet because of the raw tools and attack on the ball. Can't wait to see a totally fit McConnell next year - especially considering what he can do with no pre-season, coming off GF as a 20 year old.

  • Trotter downgraded from possible top 12 at the club to probable quality. Would like to have more faith, but some will probably think this is too much. Has to show it this year, but I know what I have seen before.

  • Urch, Grima and Jones all downgraded to outside chances of becoming top 22 players


original link:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87747&page=4
 

Souup

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2005
6,169
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Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
1. Daniel Wells
2. Jesse Smith

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
3. David Hale
4. Hamis McIntosh
5. Andrew Swallow

Possible quality player (top 12 at club)
4. Daniel McConnell
5. David Trotter
6. Daniel Pratt
7. Michael Firrito

Probable good player (top 22 at club)
8. Drew Petrie
9. Josh Gibson
10. Brad Moran

Possible good player (top 22 at club)
11. Ben Schwarze
12. Ed Lower
13. Callum Urch

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
14. Joel Perry
15. Blake Grima

Very unlikely to make it past delisting
18. Jones
19. Sansbury
20. Perkins

That's how i've ranked it, not much different to yours except i've got Perry a little lower aswell as Moran, Petrie and McConnell.
Have got Pratt more higher aswell because i think he will turn out to be Archer-Like in the way he attacks the ball and he's also very courageous
 

SeymourLions

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Mar 11, 2006
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Moran could either be an elite AFL player, or a delisting, somewhere in the top 12 i think is fair for his undoubted athletic ability.



Just to think we will be adding a possible star player to that list, the beauty of the draft :thumbsu:
 

Buddy

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The Zebra said:
This was done pre-season through a rating system thought up by speedy.
Only Criteria is players have to have played senior football and be 23 or under.
Numbers also reflect how I rank them. .


Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
1. Wells
2. Smith

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
3. Hale
4. McIntosh
5. McConnell
6. Swallow
Based on what i've seen of those players, i'd agree with that and wouldn't be suprised to see Hale in the top bracket in 2-3 years. Just on this 'Smith', Zeba, who is he? I don't think i've ever seen him play, let alone heard of him until now? :confused:

Edit: Thinking back, is he the highly rated F/S pick for the Roo's in 04? That said, what kind of a player is he?
 

Squizza

Club Legend
Sep 7, 2004
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Jesse Smith, was taken as a F/S like you said. Has had a lot of injuries so he hasn't got much game time. Was touted as a top 10 draft pick.
 

sput1956

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Aug 12, 2006
951
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Jesse Smith won the Larke medal for the under 18's even though he only played 2 matches. By comparison this years winner Tom Hawkins won it but played in all 3 games.

I believe Smith will be an AFL top 10 player.
 

Lidge

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Feb 28, 2003
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My 2 cents worth.

The Zebra said:
This was done pre-season through a rating system thought up by speedy.
Only Criteria is players have to have played senior football and be 23 or under.
Numbers also reflect how I rank them. .


Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
1. Wells
2. Smith
You're probably right on these 2.

The Zebra said:
Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
3. Hale
4. McIntosh
5. McConnell
6. Swallow
I reckon you're over rating McConnell. Even with a couple of string pre seasons and injury free years, I can't see Mike Sheehan ever slotting him into his top 50 list.

Agreed with Swallow. The kid is already a gun. Hopefully with another pre season and strength work, he'll get some extra distance and penetration with his kicking.

While we all reckon the H Bombs will be superstars, on what we saw this year, they're still probably a couple of seasons away (which is perfectly OK for talls of this age) from making it into that class of player.

The Zebra said:
Possible quality player (top 12 at club)
7. Petrie
8. Firrito
9. Moran
I reckon you've under stated Spuds importance to the team. Won't ever be a star, but would be one of the 1st blokes picked each week.

The jury is still out on Petrie as a key defender. Will need someone else to step up (Hay, Perry or draftee) to allow Drew to take 2nd or 3rd tall in defence. He made huge inroads late in the year as a defender, but mainly against Tier 2 forwards. His only outing against a reputable power forward (Neitz) saw him pantsed. As long as we don't expect him to hold down FB or CHB, he'll be OK.

Bit early on 2 games to make a cal on Moran. Personally, I think he will make the grade. With his physical attributes and running ability, combined with his height, a role will be found for him.

The Zebra said:
Probable good player (top 22 at club)
10. Trotter
11. Pratt
12. Perry
The Fox Trotter is barely rated as a top 35 player at our club ATM. Needs a massive summer in the gym and on the running track. If he dodges a bullet when the delistings are done, he'll have 1 season to prove himself.

Pratt. Honest toiler, and dumb footballer (few too many brain fades and takes the wrong options far too often), but can't question his commitment. Polled top 10 in the Syd Barker, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Arguably our worst season for 20 years. If the youngsters come on as expected, he should have a battle on to hold his place in the team.

From what we saw early in the year, your call on Perry is spot on. However, I wonder if something has happened off field and behind the scenes (ala Jeremy Clayton) to prevent the coach from picking him in the seniors.


The Zebra said:
Possible good player (top 22 at club)
13. Gibson
14. Schwarze
Both have potential and can play a bit. If we're to climb up the ladder, bit players is the role we should be expecting of these 2.


The Zebra said:
Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
15. Urch
16. Grima
17. Lower
18. Jones
Urch & Grima - both definitely in our best 22 if and when fit. Whether they are both on our list next year is another story. Lower looks like he has a future. Has a dip. Bit early to predict how good he'll be, but is he develops as expected, should be promoted to senior list and play 8-10 games again next year.

The Chad. Has the ability and all the tricks in his kit bag, but rarely produces ther than in bursts. Dunno if he has a small 'tank' or if it's just an 'effort' thing. Will be surprised if he's on our list in 2007 (with Moran coming on and leap frogging him in the pecking order this year).

The Zebra said:
Very unlikely to make it past delisting
19. Sansbury
20. Perkins
100% agreed
 

Z_K

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Can't disagree too much with any of that.

I agree with the Moran assessment from earlier in the thread. He will be awesome and game breaking freak of nature or a fringe player who cannot go with the best in finals. I don't know why I think that, but his pros are so top end it's scary but the negatives to his game might be enough to stop him from doing what he freakish athletic talents should allow. Amazing athlete who has improved more than any footballer I have seen.

I have doubts on Schwarze and Gibson. I think they have good attributes and will be contributors next year, I just see issues they need to work hard on if they are to play alot of senior games down the track. I don't think Lower will make it at all.

Swallow is not a bad kick. He is a Peter Bell kick. Neat enough, occasionly good but not damaging enough to be a truly top end. But he is an animal at the contest and had a really good first year. Looks a leader.

I get the feeling we will see a differen't McConnell next year. If he hits pre-season hard, he will be a very valuable footballer next year. His posession rate was immense in the last month, and he is very switched on and smart. Makes good decisions. Fitness base was terrible though.
 

sbdan

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great post Zebra, yet again :D

Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
Smith – 2006 preseason was enough. Still a teenager & the only player in the club with the potential to be top 12.

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
McIntosh – I still think he will be a better all round ruckman than Hale, should be our no. 1 & one of the better rucks in the league. Needs to develop confidence.
Wells – will get better when pressure is taken off by Smith stepping up.
Moran – taking a punt, but I reckon he has the ability, the arrogance and the skills (which will just get so much better) to be fantastic.
Swallow – looks the business
Petrie – didn’t realise he was still so young. Get into him & could be an outstanding backman. (yep believe it! :eek: I think he’s got the right work ethic)

Possible quality player (top 12 at club)
Firrito – solid, reliable
Hale – I know he is getting better, but he doesn’t really seem to have the dog in him to be a hard ruckman. Backup & handy to rest forward.
Pratt – great season, getting better.
Schwarze – love his work.
Urch – I just hope he gets a good preseason & stays fit. On ability, I’d put him in the group above, but poor bastard just can’t seem to get a run at it.

All these guys should be solid players who set us up over the years to come.

Probable good player (top 22 at club)
Gibson – seems to have a solid go & a bit stiff to be dropped at times this year.
McConnell – looks good.

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
Trotter
Perry – seen a few games & not sure he’s up to it.
Grima
Lower

Very unlikely to make it past delisting
Sansbury – had his chance
Perkins - i know nuttin realy, up & comers should take him.
Jones – had chances & maybe replaced by new drafts.


But all in all, there's a fair bit of potential there! Hoping for another star player in the draft...
 

mark73

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Aug 12, 2005
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sbdan said:
Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
Trotter
When you actually analyse it all, our youngsters are as good as any.There has been differing reasons why some are taking longer than others, but if you add the few earlys as we have got this year to what is already there, the talent base at the Kangaroos is exceptional.But I highlighted Trotter, because to me, if he is able to get his conditioning and endurance up to scratch, mark it down, he will be better than ALL of them.Given the talent and room for development of some youngsters like Swallow, Smith, McConnell, Wells, Riggio, Schwarze etc, it is a big call, but believe it.And it is a big call since I believe Smith is a look at the new AFL footballer of the future, and Swallow will one day win a brownlow.
 

The Zebra

Cancelled
Jun 29, 2004
14,250
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Hung Like a Horse
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North Melbourne
Lidge said:
I reckon you're over rating McConnell. Even with a couple of string pre seasons and injury free years, I can't see Mike Sheehan ever slotting him into his top 50 list.
Yeah, maybe I am - and I must admit that a lot of my rating is based on the final quarter of a VFL game earlier in the year - but what a quarter.

It was a close game and the heat was right on, but McConnell took control. It was seriously like the Matrix. He wasn't moving quick but had all the time in the world. Opposition players lunging at him as he side stepped and shot left&right bullet passes into the forward line. It was great. Plus he has averaged 17.5 poss and 6.5 mars in his first 4 for the roos with a small base.

One other thing to remember about his speed (and I do agree he has looked slow when chasing), I remember the same queries on here about Jesse Smith when he debuted. Couldn't see any of that in the pre-season this year though. I think it all about getting his explosiveness off the mark to the right level.

My only query - can't really remember seeing him kick long yet. Most have been 30m passes at most. He has a very similiar kicking style to James hird actually. Long drop to the foot. Thinking about it, Hird doesn't kick long too often either. More 30 meter pin point, clever chips. Let's hope Dmac can get anywhere near that quality of disposal.



I reckon you've under stated Spuds importance to the team. Won't ever be a star, but would be one of the 1st blokes picked each week.

The jury is still out on Petrie as a key defender. Will need someone else to step up (Hay, Perry or draftee) to allow Drew to take 2nd or 3rd tall in defence. He made huge inroads late in the year as a defender, but mainly against Tier 2 forwards. His only outing against a reputable power forward (Neitz) saw him pantsed. As long as we don't expect him to hold down FB or CHB, he'll be OK.
Agree on Spud being first picked, but can see Petrie being more important.

With Drew I feel like a chick who has been dumped by a guy she loves and then 6 months later he has asked her to move back in with him. I want to badly, but I am very afraid of getting burnt again (that analogy was for the ladies out there).

But Drew's form cannot be denied. I agree that we have to wait til he takes on the Reiwoldt's and Browns, but he has been amazing really for a guy that has pretty much never played back. Don't agree he is suited to 2nd or 3rd, becuase aside from a 2001 Jon Hay - the form he has displayed is better than any of our other KP ever have. Mooney, Bradshaw, Rocca are ok scalps. Was away for the Essendon game - did he beat Lucas?





The Fox Trotter is barely rated as a top 35 player at our club ATM. Needs a massive summer in the gym and on the running track. If he dodges a bullet when the delistings are done, he'll have 1 season to prove himself.
Absolutely. contracted though, so unless traded (which I do think is a distinct possibility) he will get that chance at the Roos.

Pratt. Honest toiler, and dumb footballer (few too many brain fades and takes the wrong options far too often), but can't question his commitment. Polled top 10 in the Syd Barker, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Arguably our worst season for 20 years. If the youngsters come on as expected, he should have a battle on to hold his place in the team.
I reckon you are underrating him. I called for his head early in the year, but when he came back from being dropped he showed some great form. I think he makes pretty good decisions with the ball and has been given a couple of big jobs. Did well, but also got beaten in a couple. Petrie's form will directly effect him, but i think the brain fades were more 2005 than 2006.
 

sbdan

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mark73 said:
I highlighted Trotter, because to me, if he is able to get his conditioning and endurance up to scratch, mark it down, he will be better than ALL of them.
I know you all seem to love the young trotts here, but I just do not see what the fuss is about. I know he's only 20, but he is so small and I haven't seen him do anything in the 1s or 2s. And the opportunities are fleeting, with so many others showing form. But here's hoping :D
 

The Zebra

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sbdan said:
I know you all seem to love the young trotts here, but I just do not see what the fuss is about. I know he's only 20, but he is so small and I haven't seen him do anything in the 1s or 2s. And the opportunities are fleeting, with so many others showing form. But here's hoping :D

He is 186cm sbdan, that is 4cm taller than Archer.

No doubt he has dropped off, but in his first year he showed a lot of class and has very good skills. One of the things that seemed to be a strength was his attitude - which was why he was so good at shutting down an opponent. He had great application and a great spoiling technique to go along with his skills.

While it is a worry if his attitude and application has dropped off, it is not a sbig of a worry as if he was just deemed not up to it. F*ck, I nearly got kicked out of uni twice when I was 20 but turned it around - and Trotter has a way bigger pot of gold at the end than me (oh to play sport for a living).

He can do it.
 

ReturnOfTheKing

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Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)

Wells
Smith

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)

Swallow
Moran
McIntosh
McConnell

Possible quality player (top 12 at club)

Pratt
Grima
Hale

Probable good player (top 22 at club)

Petrie
Perry
Firrito
Lower
Gibson


Possible good player (top 22 at club)

Urch


Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)

Trotter
Schwarze


Very unlikely to make it past delisting

Jones
Sansbury
Perkins
 

SeymourLions

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NorthBhoy said:
Swallow is not a bad kick. He is a Peter Bell kick. Neat enough, occasionly good but not damaging enough to be a truly top end. But he is an animal at the contest and had a really good first year. Looks a leader.
Really good comparison. I actually see alot of chris Judd in swallow too. They can both be great kicks, or terible kicks, Judd is a bit more explosive at the moment. Swallow is quick too, and i think with 5 seasons of AFL like Judd has ahead of Swallow, he may achieve "some of thast explosiveness" I think Swallow will be great, alot are comparing him to Harro, but imho he will be alot better, just because of his pace.
 

Schwatta

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SeymourLions said:
Really good comparison. I actually see alot of chris Judd in swallow too. They can both be great kicks, or terible kicks, Judd is a bit more explosive at the moment. Swallow is quick too, and i think with 5 seasons of AFL like Judd has ahead of Swallow, he may achieve "some of thast explosiveness" I think Swallow will be great, alot are comparing him to Harro, but imho he will be alot better, just because of his pace.

Swallow wont even be half of a judd! i like swallow a lot, he has great work rate, aggression, skills, ball magnetic and makes good decisions. BUT judd is almost a once in a life time footballer and may well go down in history as the best of all time. you cant compare the two, as swallow is a hard worker and does the 1%ers and basics great where as judd does the extremes and the exciting, and just has those freakish skills and instincts.

swallow may well get 30 odd possies but i cant see him on a regular basis grabing a game by the neck and winning it alone. nor will he in 5 years time, all swallow will ever be is a solid player like a harris not a superstar as their is a big difference.
 

Schwatta

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Possible star player (top 12 in AFL)
1. Daniel Wells
2. Jesse Smith

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL)
3. David Hale
4. Hamish McIntosh
5. Andrew Swallow

Possible quality player (top 12 at club)
6. Drew Petrie
7. Michael Firrito

Probable good player (top 22 at club)
8. Daniel McConnell
9. Daniel Pratt
10. Brad Moran

Possible good player (top 22 at club)
11. Joel Perry
12. Ben Schwarze
13. Josh Gibson
14. Ed Lower

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club)
15. Blake Grima
16. David Trotter
17. Callum Urch

Very unlikely to make it past delisting
18. Jones
19. Sansbury
20. Perkins


Really do hope grima, trotter and urch are given another season to prove themselves and hopefully they can go injury free and next season be added to the probable team top 22 list.

Perry, schwarze, gibbo and lower seem to be handy list players who will maintain depth at the least.

McConnell, pratt and moran should be penciled into our best 22 with all three continuing to improve.

Petrie and Firrito should certainly be in our top 12 if they want to be with their work effic. its just a matter of consistancy and how hard they wish to work to improve and maintain it. if worst petrie gives us great depth if he isnt in our top 22, but he has the ability to be top 12.

Hale, McIntosh and swallow. all young and still to get a lot better just all depends on wether they can stay injury free.

Wells and smith, wells needs to do more. needs to work harder and needs to be our first option as the go to man. could be anything but really needs to have a consistant 2007. smith could be the same, anything or delisted if he cant shrug off these injuries. very young and skillfull and if has no more injuries can be one of the elite. but if he has injury interupted seasons for the next few or so years could even never make it to the level he should and i hope. please be injury free in 2007 please!

Its time to go chad, perkins and mcmahon. not up to afl level, nowhere near it, time for some others to get the chance.
 

dirty_dizz

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SeymourLions said:
Really good comparison. I actually see alot of chris Judd in swallow too. They can both be great kicks, or terible kicks, Judd is a bit more explosive at the moment. Swallow is quick too, and i think with 5 seasons of AFL like Judd has ahead of Swallow, he may achieve "some of thast explosiveness" I think Swallow will be great, alot are comparing him to Harro, but imho he will be alot better, just because of his pace.
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

Bowski

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Brad "Carey but Faster" Moran certainly had quite a few tools, the ability to put it all together was not one of them unfortunately.

I rated the Ed Lower.

Pratt, for a golden year and half, was one of the best kicks in the league. I vividly remember one fan near my favourite seat just abusing him for months, saying he can't kick, gave me great pleasure as he hit every single target between the nips.
 

Psicosis

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Great bump & should provide some interesting comparison shinboner magic - The current list management strategy is the most complete investment in draft I can recall by the club.

Possible star player (top 12 in AFL) *2 in 2006
1. Thomas
2. Powell
3. Davies-Uniacke
4. Horne

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL) *4 in 2006
5. Phillips
6. Stephenson
7. Simpkin
8. McKay
9. Zurhaar

Possible quality player (top 12 at club) *3 in 2006
8. Larkey
9. Scott

Probable good player (top 22 at club) *3 in 2006
10. Lazarro
11. Taylor
12. Bonar

Possible good player (top 22 at club) *2 in 2006
13. Mahoney
14. Edwards
15. Ford
16. Xerri

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club) *4 in 2006
17. Bosenavulagi
18. Comben
19. Perez
20. P. Walker
21. Young
22. Ham
23. Spicer

Very unlikely to make it past delisting *2 in 2006
24. Hayden
25. W. Walker
26. McGuinness
 

DuckYeah

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Great bump & should provide some interesting comparison shinboner magic - The current list management strategy is the most complete investment in draft I can recall by the club.

Possible star player (top 12 in AFL) *2 in 2006
1. Thomas
2. Powell
3. Davies-Uniacke
4. Horne

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL) *4 in 2006
5. Phillips
6. Stephenson
7. Simpkin
8. McKay
9. Zurhaar

Possible quality player (top 12 at club) *3 in 2006
8. Larkey
9. Scott

Probable good player (top 22 at club) *3 in 2006
10. Lazarro
11. Taylor
12. Bonar

Possible good player (top 22 at club) *2 in 2006
13. Mahoney
14. Edwards
15. Ford
16. Xerri

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club) *4 in 2006
17. Bosenavulagi
18. Comben
19. Perez
20. P. Walker
21. Young
22. Ham
23. Spicer

Very unlikely to make it past delisting *2 in 2006
24. Hayden
25. W. Walker
26. McGuinness
Stephenson has shown enough to be a star
 

shinboner magic

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Great bump & should provide some interesting comparison shinboner magic - The current list management strategy is the most complete investment in draft I can recall by the club.

Possible star player (top 12 in AFL) *2 in 2006
1. Thomas
2. Powell
3. Davies-Uniacke
4. Horne

Possible elite player (top 50 in AFL) *4 in 2006
5. Phillips
6. Stephenson
7. Simpkin
8. McKay
9. Zurhaar

Possible quality player (top 12 at club) *3 in 2006
8. Larkey
9. Scott

Probable good player (top 22 at club) *3 in 2006
10. Lazarro
11. Taylor
12. Bonar

Possible good player (top 22 at club) *2 in 2006
13. Mahoney
14. Edwards
15. Ford
16. Xerri

Outside chance good player (top 22 at club) *4 in 2006
17. Bosenavulagi
18. Comben
19. Perez
20. P. Walker
21. Young
22. Ham
23. Spicer

Very unlikely to make it past delisting *2 in 2006
24. Hayden
25. W. Walker
26. McGuinness
Change the year mate lol

Agree with most of that - just get a feeling Lazzaro will be in the top 12 at our club.
 

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