List Mgmt. Rate the 18 lists of 2022

[austinnn]

It's been a depressing few weeks for many of us Saints fans who had previously thought we'd turned a corner, and are now feeling that we're getting left in the dust again. Many clubs have strengthened, and although we do like many of our recent acquisitions, the impression is that what other clubs have brought in is simply outstanding.

I thought this would be a good focal point to have an unemotional look at whose lists are better and worse, so if you can't be bothered to rate all 18 lists (which is nigh on impossible, but I thought there would be a few "dedicated posters" out there who are up to the task!), simply state whose lists are worse than ours and why.

How did we let this happen? Were we that bad that the list management crew have done alright but were coming from a long way back, or did we take a lot of wrong turns?

Over to you!

 

[austinnn]

I'll give my 2c.

Adelaide have a few coming through but are starting from a long way back.
Collingwood don't really convince me, I think they have some talent, but not more than us.
Fremantle have a few guns but a fair bit of dross.
Geelong - meh.
Port Adelaide - They've got a few really good players, probably a more even spread than us, but I don't see a better list there.
West Coast - yeah, bit blah

Thats about it. I think the other clubs have either had better lists for a while or have recently plugged their holes or their players have jumped a level.

 

[gringo2011]

I'll give my 2c.

Adelaide have a few coming through but are starting from a long way back.
Collingwood don't really convince me, I think they have some talent, but not more than us.
Fremantle have a few guns but a fair bit of dross.
Geelong - meh.
Port Adelaide - They've got a few really good players, probably a more even spread than us, but I don't see a better list there.
West Coast - yeah, bit blah

Thats about it. I think the other clubs have either had better lists for a while or have recently plugged their holes or their players have jumped a level.

To me Geelong and West Coast have okay lists when everyone is available but too many older players so will hit a cliff at some point. Their balance seems out with a lack of quality youth coming through.

Port have a good spread of ages and have stayed up while rebuilding. They are a bit like us in that they don't have a real game breaker other than Robbie Grey who is ancient. They are probably a Dusty or Petracca off a premiership.

The Dogs have one of the best midfields in footy history but they look shaky without Bruce and are always chasing another tall back.

Carlton and Melbourne seem to have the best spread of really high end talent. Carlton hasn't proven much yet but the pieces are there.

Richmond is at the end of a very good era with consistency of the playing list meant that they all knew what each other were going to do. They were never a brilliant list but had a few brilliant pieces and payed a true team game.

Goldy looks like they are about to soar, so many talented kids that it's only a matter of time before they explode.

GWS who had an incredible leg up just haven't been able make the side cohesive and with some of their leaders coming to an end they look like a middler for the foreseeable future. If somehow they ever get it together there are some absolute stars there.

Freemantle are always highly rated because they have a lot of youth but still hover around our level. To me they look like Gold Coast-lite. Like us it really comes down to some of their kids going from good to brilliant.

Sydney have so many good kids and the spread of talent and footy smarts make them formidable while playing an extremely youth centric side. Probably a bit of a Port Adelaide though with a lack of a game breaker. They need everyone going at full pace to get wins but they are probably the most disciplined side n footy.

Essendon, still not 100% convinced, lots of good pieces but they lack cohesion. The talent pool is good but they still get injury ravage them every year. If they get guys like Tippa on the park and all their pieces firing they have a list capable of top 4 but I think that there are still some psychological issues left from the cheating era.

Collingwood have a lot of talent at the back end of their careers, a lot will come down to how their youth develops as to how their future looks.

North are obviously in a bottom out but they have been grabbing some really good pieces while there. Stephenson is going to be a star still IMO and they grabbed him in the way we grabbed Hanners, a way to eat up spare cap but with a huge future still.

Crows have some really good older players still and with a clean run they look more like us than North. Ladder position has probably not reflected talent.

Finally Saints. We look a 6th to 15th type side. Not really bad not really good. A true middler list that will need everything to go right to rise with some youth coming into the right age to rise but also a nervous time because we should find out if those players move us forward or turn into another generation of Acres and Newnes type GOPs over the next 2 years.

 

[austinnn]

To me Geelong and West Coast have okay lists when everyone is available but too many older players so will hit a cliff at some point. Their balance seems out with a lack of quality youth coming through.

Port have a good spread of ages and have stayed up while rebuilding. They are a bit like us in that they don't have a real game breaker other than Robbie Grey who is ancient. They are probably a Dusty or Petracca off a premiership.

The Dogs have one of the best midfields in footy history but they look shaky without Bruce and are always chasing another tall back.

Carlton and Melbourne seem to have the best spread of really high end talent. Carlton hasn't proven much yet but the pieces are there.

Richmond is at the end of a very good era with consistency of the playing list meant that they all knew what each other were going to do. They were never a brilliant list but had a few brilliant pieces and payed a true team game.

Goldy looks like they are about to soar, so many talented kids that it's only a matter of time before they explode.

GWS who had an incredible leg up just haven't been able make the side cohesive and with some of their leaders coming to an end they look like a middler for the foreseeable future. If somehow they ever get it together there are some absolute stars there.

Freemantle are always highly rated because they have a lot of youth but still hover around our level. To me they look like Gold Coast-lite. Like us it really comes down to some of their kids going from good to brilliant.

Sydney have so many good kids and the spread of talent and footy smarts make them formidable while playing an extremely youth centric side. Probably a bit of a Port Adelaide though with a lack of a game breaker. They need everyone going at full pace to get wins but they are probably the most disciplined side n footy.

Essendon, still not 100% convinced, lots of good pieces but they lack cohesion. The talent pool is good but they still get injury ravage them every year. If they get guys like Tippa on the park and all their pieces firing they have a list capable of top 4 but I think that there are still some psychological issues left from the cheating era.

Collingwood have a lot of talent at the back end of their careers, a lot will come down to how their youth develops as to how their future looks.

North are obviously in a bottom out but they have been grabbing some really good pieces while there. Stephenson is going to be a star still IMO and they grabbed him in the way we grabbed Hanners, a way to eat up spare cap but with a huge future still.

Crows have some really good older players still and with a clean run they look more like us than North. Ladder position has probably not reflected talent.

Finally Saints. We look a 6th to 15th type side. Not really bad not really good. A true middler list that will need everything to go right to rise with some youth coming into the right age to rise but also a nervous time because we should find out if those players move us forward or turn into another generation of Acres and Newnes type GOPs over the next 2 years.

Yep, I agree about Cats and Eagles, gun teams in their day but starting to get a bit mouldy now.

Dons are strange. Did they turn a corner last year or was it just dead coach bounce? They seem to be accumulating a decent crop of young talent though, and they have a couple of decent vets. I put them above us on the strength of their young guns, but there's nothing else attractive about it really.

 

[George]

Not sure about lists but with the list we have we should be a top 6 side. Really no excuses for not finishing around that mark this year.

Not sure on potential or future years because players can stagnate or regress, so teams with good youth like Sydney might go backwards, it's hard to say for sure.

 

[saintbill]

Not sure about lists but with the list we have we should be a top 6 side. Really no excuses for not finishing around that mark this year.

Not sure on potential or future years because players can stagnate or regress, so teams with good youth like Sydney might go backwards, it's hard to say for sure.

Top 6, you can't be serious? Bottom 6 is far more accurate.

We have 1-2 A graders, possibly 6-8 B graders and that is being generous. Probably another 6-8 C graders. The rest are barely AFL standard at this stage of their careers.

Depth is non existent. The players we thought had a lot of talent have just not come on.

Billings, Gresh, Clarke, Coffield etc. None of them have come on the way we expected. Injury has played some part but they also are not as good as we thought.

Outside of King, we don't really have any potential elite players coming through. Compare that to other clubs and it is terrifying.

 

[mighty_sainters]

Undoubtedly a bottom 6 side, it’s the false hope that makes us believe we might be that bit better.

If you got honest opinions from neutral observers i’d be staggered if many rated our list.

Not to say it can’t be improved quite quickly if things fall our way, just need an ounce of luck.

 

[George]

Top 6, you can't be serious? Bottom 6 is far more accurate.

We have 1-2 A graders, possibly 6-8 B graders and that is being generous. Probably another 6-8 C graders. The rest are barely AFL standard at this stage of their careers.

Depth is non existent. The players we thought had a lot of talent have just not come on.

Billings, Gresh, Clarke, Coffield etc. None of them have come on the way we expected. Injury has played some part but they also are not as good as we thought.

Outside of King, we don't really have any potential elite players coming through. Compare that to other clubs and it is terrifying.

Nope, I'm serious. No excuses for this group. We finished 5th two years ago with the same group of players and should be trending upwards with the improvement from the likes of King and Sinclair, coupled with the expectation of Clark & Coffield to perform, along with the return of players like Paton and Gresham.

Anything other than a top 6 finish would be a failure for this group. Bottom 6 is nowhere near where we should be.

 

[George]

Undoubtedly a bottom 6 side, it’s the false hope that makes us believe we might be that bit better.

If you got honest opinions from neutral observers i’d be staggered if many rated our list.

Not to say it can’t be improved quite quickly if things fall our way, just need an ounce of luck.

Neutral observers don't know the club as well as our own supporters do. Many had Melbourne missing the eight last year as an example. No idea.

 

[Minga]

Ofc we could be top 6, don’t be silly. We are ONE GAME IN. Any one of a MILLION things could happen that makes us top 6.

And yes, you could say that for all 18 teams this year, the difference being we have shown that at our best we can beat and be competitive with anyone. Full stop. We did it 2020, we easily could’ve made the 8 2021 with a tad more luck/effort, and still nearly made despite everything going wrong.

Do I think it’s a team for long term sustained success? I used to, but that’s being challenged this year. We gotta step up to that challenge, and if we do, we can go anywhere. But no matter what our list and coaching strategy is after this year, we are undoubtedly a top 6 chance just as much as any other competitive side.

Saying otherwise is lowering the ceiling of this group and giving them an out.

 

[gringo2011]

Neutral observers don't know the club as well as our own supporters do. Many had Melbourne missing the eight last year as an example. No idea.

I still think our best is about 6th if everything goes right. We look a middler that could finish as low as 16th if everything goes wrong. We should expect finals but not a certainty either. We are more vulnerable to injury that a lot of others around our level.. Lots of sides looked to have stepped up, we now need to beat those sides that looked like easy wins. We are going to need a heap of luck.

 

[George]

I still think our best is about 6th if everything goes right. We look a middler that could finish as low as 16th if everything goes wrong. We should expect finals but not a certainty either. We are more vulnerable to injury that a lot of others around our level.. Lots of sides looked to have stepped up, we now need to beat those sides that looked like easy wins. We are going to need a heap of luck.

With the players we've got we should be in the eight at years end. 6th would be in a perfect world with no injuries IMO. Given how hard it is for teams to win outside the top four it kind of explains where I see the list. Not a premiership side or even challenging for a premiership but good enough to make the eight and currently underperforming.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Neutral observers don't know the club as well as our own supporters do. Many had Melbourne missing the eight last year as an example. No idea.

Neutral supporters would have way more idea than most saints supporters , you only have to look at the game day poll on here 95% of the time to see how biased some are

 

[George]

Neutral supporters would have way more idea than most saints supporters , you only have to look at the game day poll on here 95% of the time to see how biased some are

The game day poll is a piss take, I'd look at what people are saying. When people here are objective about us they usually have a better idea than the media or other supporters I reckon. We're clearly biased but I'd come here for opinions on where we are than Fox or the papers.

 

[CaptainRisky]

The game day poll is a piss take, I'd look at what people are saying. When people here are objective about us they usually have a better idea than the media or other supporters I reckon. We're clearly biased but I'd come here for opinions on where we are than Fox or the papers.

Ok , but no way are we a top six team , i would forget the form of two years ago

 

[George]

Ok , but no way are we a top six team , i would forget the form of two years ago

Oh well, difference of opinion. At our best and with no injuries IMO we are top 6.

 

[plugger66]

Our list is probably around 8th. Our mids are probably around 14th so that gives us about the 11th best list or if you are negative the 7th worst list. Going by the sandy scores maybe we are 18th

 

[Mowman]

At our best 7th - 8th a few injuries or we don't show up 9th to 12 th
Who cares about the other scum

 

[schmuttt]

Pardon the intrusion.

Watch you guys a fair bit as a neutral, have generally always supported the smaller market clubs when Melbourne aren't playing (Although the Dogs playing for frees has made me go off them).

I really like your backline and your KPF setup. What I don't like is the small forwards (I know you drafted that kid early last year but hes still a kid) and the midfield depth. The midfield has one elite player then a bunch of good average footballers who occasionally play a quality game but aren't good enough to hold that consistent level of performance. I still have nfi why you didn't play Sharman against the Pies and I'm glad B King signed on with the GC so the Saints weren't being baited into making a stupid offer and further mortgaging the midfield problem. I actually had you 8th in my preseason prediction but was concerned at the skills on display against the Pies.

Not sure if the fans would accept it but for the best of the list if you miss finals again this year I hope they blow it up and look to contend again in 2-3yr when Steele is still playing at a very high level. You never truly picked up the high picks required to rebuild under Richo and I'm worried that'll happen again.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Pardon the intrusion.

Watch you guys a fair bit as a neutral, have generally always supported the smaller market clubs when Melbourne aren't playing (Although the Dogs playing for frees has made me go off them).

I really like your backline and your KPF setup. What I don't like is the small forwards (I know you drafted that kid early last year but hes still a kid) and the midfield depth. The midfield has one elite player then a bunch of good average footballers who occasionally play a quality game but aren't good enough to hold that consistent level of performance. I still have nfi why you didn't play Sharman against the Pies and I'm glad B King signed on with the GC so the Saints weren't being baited into making a stupid offer and further mortgaging the midfield problem. I actually had you 8th in my preseason prediction but was concerned at the skills on display against the Pies.

Not sure if the fans would accept it but for the best of the list if you miss finals again this year I hope they blow it up and look to contend again in 2-3yr when Steele is still playing at a very high level. You never truly picked up the high picks required to rebuild under Richo and I'm worried that'll happen again.

Thanks.
The problem we have is that it's difficult to make meaningful cuts to our list now because our oldest best 22 players are only 28yo and the 2 blokes we'd probably start with are Hill and Crouch who are both on loooong faaaat contracts.

Our list managing has committed us to this squad for the next 4 years. There's little way out of it without a full rebuild.

 

[austinnn]

I'm not asking about ladder position, which is dictated by a range of factors, including coaching, system, form, momentum, opposition and so on. There's other threads that discuss our general position and form. This thread is exclusively about the 18 different squads, specifically of this year and maybe projecting into the short term future.

 

[George]

I'm not asking about ladder position, which is dictated by a range of factors, including coaching, system, form, momentum, opposition and so on. There's other threads that discuss our general position and form. This thread is exclusively about the 18 different squads, specifically of this year and maybe projecting into the short term future.

Hard to rank them mate. Sydney have probably the best youth in the comp but its kind of too early to tell, even for the Swans.

 

[Ricmel]

Finally Saints. We look a 6th to 15th type side. Not really bad not really good. A true middler list that will need everything to go right to rise with some youth coming into the right age to rise but also a nervous time because we should find out if those players move us forward or turn into another generation of Acres and Newnes type GOPs over the next 2 years.

I think now we have to look at the Saints list as a 5 year plan (we seem to forever have to project 5 years forward). Current list does not have a flag in it, probably not even a top 6 if we are being honest with ourselves. I just don't see players like Membery, Billings, Ross, Webster, Crouch, Hill, Wood, Kent, Ryder, Jones being part of our next challenge period.

Right now I think you have to view our list as who do we have to build around to ensure in 5 years we are a real challenger and what do we need?

King is the obvious one and also probably the safest bet, so good start. I'd like to think Steele, Howard, Wilkie,
Paton and Marshall are still going and contributing in 5 - 6 years time. These 6 players are quality and could be top 10 in a premiership team.

Then you have players that have shown something but not consistently and easily have 5-6 years in them. Clark, Gresham, Coffield, Higgins, Sinclair, Butler, Bytel, Battle. Of these, I actually rate Coffield as having the most potential. I feel like Battle, Higgins, Sinclair and Gresham should be thereabouts. I worry about Clark and don't think Butler and Bytel will be around. This is the group that SHOULD be the core of the team in 2027 - players ranked 7 - 14. Is that a strong mid group? I'd say potential to be solid at best.

The youngsters are a bit of a crap shoot but it looks like Nasiah, Sharman, Highmore and Connelly show enough to be promising.

So injuries and trading aside, the core of our list in 2026/27 looks something like King, Steele, Howard, Marshall, Wilkie, Paton, Gresham, Coffield, Higgins, Sinclair, Battle, Clark, Nasiah, Sharman, Highmore and Connelly. The wildcards are Heath and Byrnes.

I know this is massive speculation but if this were 70% right, is that the core of a premiership team?

What I like is that the spine is essentially there - King, ?, Steele, Battle, Howard. Small running backs are OK. Small fowards potentially very good. Midfield not up to flag standard (no where near it really). X-factor lacking.

If I am the club and I know we say it here all the time, take an honest view at the 5 year potential of this current list. Recruit for the midfield (as you should have done in 2011 - 2020) and keep your fingers crossed that the players we currently have our future invested in deliver.

My concern - the only fact I have absolute faith in in this entire post is that King will be a star of the competition.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think now we have to look at the Saints list as a 5 year plan (we seem to forever have to project 5 years forward). Current list does not have a flag in it, probably not even a top 6 if we are being honest with ourselves. I just don't see players like Membery, Billings, Ross, Webster, Crouch, Hill, Wood, Kent, Wilkie, Paton, Ryder, Jones being part of our next challenge period.

Right now I think you have to view our list as who do we have to build around to ensure in 5 years we are a real challenger and what do we need?

King is the obvious one and also probably the safest bet, so good start. I'd like to think Steele, Howard, Wilkie,
Paton and Marshall are still going and contributing in 5 - 6 years time. These 6 players are quality and could be top 10 in a premiership team.

Then you have players that have shown something but not consistently and easily have 5-6 years in them. Clark, Gresham, Coffield, Higgins, Sinclair, Butler, Bytel, Battle. Of these, I actually rate Coffield as having the most potential. I feel like Battle, Higgins, Sinclair and Gresham should be thereabouts. I worry about Clark and don't think Butler and Bytel will be around. This is the group that SHOULD be the core of the team in 2027 - players ranked 7 - 14. Is that a strong mid group? I'd say potential to be solid at best.

The youngsters are a bit of a crap shoot but it looks like Nasiah, Sharman, Highmore and Connelly show enough to be promising.

So injuries and trading aside, the core of our list in 2026/27 looks something like King, Steele, Howard, Marshall, Wilkie, Paton, Gresham, Coffield, Higgins, Sinclair, Battle, Clark, Nasiah, Sharman, Highmore and Connelly. The wildcards are Heath and Byrnes.

I know this is massive speculation but if this were 70% right, is that the core of a premiership team?

What I like is that the spine is essentially there - King, ?, Steele, Battle, Howard. Small running backs are OK. Small fowards potentially very good. Midfield not up to flag standard (no where near it really). X-factor lacking.

If I am the club and I know we say it here all the time, take an honest view at the 5 year potential of this current list. Recruit for the midfield (as you should have done in 2011 - 2020) and keep your fingers crossed that the players we currently have our future invested in deliver.

My concern - the only fact I have absolute faith in in this entire post is that King will be a star of the competition.

Paton is 23

I would hope that all of the young players we drafted last year are promising. Why the else would we have drafted them?

 

[Ricmel]

Paton is 23

I would hope that all of the young players we drafted last year are promising. Why the else would we have drafted them?

Paton was a mistake, I had him in the core group. And yes, I actually think Windhager will be a player and should have had him in. None that fundamentally changes the 5 year picture though.