Rate the best performing clubs of the AFL era (1990-). Looking beyond number of premierships and at overall performance

[Capriati]

That would be nauseating for a vaginas supporter given the way your laughable club has been regularly septembarassing themselves as a matter of course. Can we get you anything Dangerfool2Junkins?

Talking about Septembarrassing, how about going 15 years without a finals win and losing an elimination final to a team that finished 9th.

One for the history books.

 

[HTT]

I think I have the answer the OP wants

I think Geelong have been the best performed team because winning finals is overrated. Sides like Hawthorn have only won more premierships than them because they’ve been better in September, which is unfair because I said so

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I'm really enjoying all the various forms of posts that can essentially be boiled down to:

"Hey guys, despite us pretty much having a rare BigFooty consensus that the best measure of success is to tally up who has won the most of the thing that every club is playing to win every year, I think we should stop and consider another method of measuring... Might I suggest one that looks more favourably upon my own club?"

Cryptormented I like your observation apart from the fact it is wrong and it doesn’t go deep enough.

Let’s face it, the reason the thread was started is some sort of foolish endeavour to try to escape what must be a shocking reality for the rest of the competition - the Tigers have risen from a long slumber, they are dominant, it doesn’t look like ending soon and yes, it is for real. So hey, let’s start a thread to diminish their current strength by some sentimental reference to a time when my club won some finals that mattered. A bit like me starting a thread in 1985 asking who was the strongest club since 1967...

But let’s get real, if the thread said who has won the most premierships in the AFL era, then your post would have some legitimacy. The thread doesn’t ask for that, and it is not a reliable measure of performance in a given period. I have given you the proper way to measure performance in the period. Ok, you don’t like the message so you shoot the messenger. But the fact remains, by the only reasonable measure available to us, the Tigers have been the best performing club in the AFL era. The best the AFL could throw at us amassed a grand total of 11 goals across two separate Grand Finals. Your fraudulent club has never achieved anything like that in any era, let alone in the AFL timeframe.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Talking about Septembarrassing, how about going 15 years without a finals win and losing an elimination final to a team that finished 9th.

One for the history books.

Just look at it as an aborted climb at the foot of the North Face because things were not quite right. History has shown the wisdom of our policy of only going to the final day when we are ready to get it done properly. And nobody gets it done better.

 

[Roddy]

New headline for this thread: 'Desperately attempt to make Hawthorn's achievements in the AFL era look less than they actually are.'

 

[Freomaniac]

Not winning the flag once more in our 2005 to 2018 era was a huge blow and to be honest I blame our current coach. Had we had a more dynamic coach I think we would have pinched another flag as I think our list between 2014 and 2017 was good enough to do it.

2006 you couldnt of done much more. Barry Hall was the difference maker in both those 2005-6 grand finals in both a good and bad way.

2005: Swans kick 8.10.58. Hall kicks 2 goals. Swans win by 4 points.
2006: Kick 12.12.84. Hall kicks 2 behinds. Swans lose by a point

2012: Hawks were a 5-6 goal better side on paper. Hawks Sprayed their shots, Swans didnt, Swans won.

2014: Yep I wanted the swans to win that, hawks were way too good on the day.

2016: Yes there were a few umpiring calls that went to the dogs. Hannebery got injured. Franklin was sore too. Swans got within a point of the dogs midway through the final quarter then the dogs kicked the next 3 and won by 20. Had the swans won this game, would of been the perfect way to end the era.

 

[cryptor]

Cryptormented I like your observation apart from the fact it is wrong and it doesn’t go deep enough.

Let’s face it, the reason the thread was started is some sort of foolish endeavour to try to escape what must be a shocking reality for the rest of the competition - the Tigers have risen from a long slumber, they are dominant, it doesn’t look like ending soon and yes, it is for real. So hey, let’s start a thread to diminish their current strength by some sentimental reference to a time when my club won some finals that mattered. A bit like me starting a thread in 1985 asking who was the strongest club since 1967...

But let’s get real, if the thread said who has won the most premierships in the AFL era, then your post would have some legitimacy. The thread doesn’t ask for that, and it is not a reliable measure of performance in a given period. I have given you the proper way to measure performance in the period. Ok, you don’t like the message so you shoot the messenger. But the fact remains, by the only reasonable measure available to us, the Tigers have been the best performing club in the AFL era. The best the AFL could throw at us amassed a grand total of 11 goals across two separate Grand Finals. Your fraudulent club has never achieved anything like that in any era, let alone in the AFL timeframe.

I'm really 50:50 on whether you are a troll or just really delusional. I'm entertained either way.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think you're analysing it too much, for me it's flags. I'd have to be pushed real hard to rate GF appearances as a measure of success.

So as for your options theory really for mine they're only marginally better than 9th only because of finals experience. Not something I'd measure as any sort of success. It's still somewhere in 2nd place behind 1st, so may as well be moot.

Call me a hard marker, probably am because I'm always disappointed in my own club. Forever teasin and rarely pleasin.

INB4 "At least you make finals regularly". Sometimes I'd rather my club either win flags or not challenge at all, the constant false hope gets a bit old.

I probably am analysing too much. May because My team has only made finals 7 times in their 25 year history.

All teams have had various forms of success. Most teams have had times they have spent 2-5 years in a row making finals. All teams have had times where they have spent 2-5 year not making finals in either being in the bottom 6 and rebuilding or trying to make finals and not being good enough. The finals system has changed. Until 1971, you only had 4 finals spots for 12 sides. so a 1 in 3 chance of finals. From 1972-90, you had 5 spots for 12 or 14 teams. You then had a top 6 from 1991-93. Then from 1994-2010 you had a final 8 with a 16 team comp so a 50% chance of making finals.

Some say winning the flag is the be all and end all. that is true. But you gotta make the Grand final to win one. Hell you have to make finals to win a flag. You cant turn a team like the Swans of 1992-4 or Demons under mark neeld of 2012-3 and instantly turn them into finals teams.


I mean I look at the ladder in 2019. Dogs and Bombers both got 12 wins and limped into finals. While Hawks were 9th with 11 wins and a good %. Port Were 10th with 11 wins and a good % too. I have siat this before, worset thing you can do is finish 9th or 10th. One of the worst feelings in footy is you think your team is good but miss out on finals by either % or 1 win short or both.

You look at Port Since they made that Prelim final in 2014 and what has happened since. Narrowly missed out on finals in 2015 and 2016. They got 6th in 2017 and lost controversially to west coast. They also narrowly missed out on finals in 2018 and 2019. I can see why Port fans are frustrated. In their opinion, They should of made finals each year in the last 5 years. If they did, that would of mean they would of made finals each year from 2013 onwards.


If they did, It would of made Ken Hinkleys win/loss record way better than what it is now. Making finals from 2013-19 would of been good for port

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's a mentality like this that resulted in you starting a whinge thread about "what's wrong with the pies" while pulling on the dicks of West Coast fans about how great our club is and how much you guys suck compared to us.

Starting to think you're either a masochist of just a plain old cuck.

Collingwood gets a lot of s**t for losing 27 Grand Finals, but getting there in itself is an achievement, and they have been pretty consistent in making finals/Grand Finals in the AFL era. starting having a bit of pride in your club and stop glory hunting, it could be worse, you could be Freo.

Think you're being a little dramatic, no one but no one can deny WC's success. So "pulling the dicks of west coast fans" is just wrong.

Collingwood have been consistent in playing finals and GF's throughout the history of the comp - doesn't make it success though does it.

As far as comparing us with Freo well that's moot, they're 0-1 we're 2-6 forever teasin rarely pleasin. Like I said fans of clubs who rarely contend don't have to put up with hope diminished all the time.

I do have pride in my club, probably the highest profile sporting organisation in the country. A bit of success would be nice though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

One of the worst feelings in footy is you think your team is good but miss out on finals by either % or 1 win short or both.

The worst feeling in footy is to make the GF only to lose it - again. Sure our club has done the near impossible to get there, have been favourites too - sometimes heavy faves only to lose it. 77 comes to mind.

So yeah one of the worst feelings to just miss finals, the worst feeling belongs to forever teasin rarely pleasin.

 

[BruceTempany14]

Seems most everyone agrees with Hawks/West Coast as 1 and 2.

Except for Geelong supporters . Seriously delusional . They so wannabe Hawthorn . But they ain’t .
Go CATTERS


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The worst feeling in footy is to make the GF only to lose it - again. Sure our club has done the near impossible to get there, have been favourites too - sometimes heavy faves only to lose it. 77 comes to mind.

So yeah one of the worst feelings to just miss finals, the worst feeling belongs to forever teasin rarely pleasin.

Spot on, making the Grand Final and losing it is putrid. That’s why the great clubs don’t lose Grand Finals in the AFl era. And the even greater clubs put them to bed early, no exceptions. Saying let’s go all out to make as many GF’s as we can in the hope that we win one every now and then, that is sloppy. Great clubs at the cutting edge of performance target the ones they can nail and they nail them. This is why we have won twice was many Grand Finals in the last 2 years and 3 months as you have in the last 62 completed seasons. You seem to want to copy everything else we do but you somehow haven’t mastered that bit.

 

[RUNVS]

2006 you couldnt of done much more. Barry Hall was the difference maker in both those 2005-6 grand finals in both a good and bad way.

2005: Swans kick 8.10.58. Hall kicks 2 goals. Swans win by 4 points.
2006: Kick 12.12.84. Hall kicks 2 behinds. Swans lose by a point

2012: Hawks were a 5-6 goal better side on paper. Hawks Sprayed their shots, Swans didnt, Swans won.

2014: Yep I wanted the swans to win that, hawks were way too good on the day.

2016: Yes there were a few umpiring calls that went to the dogs. Hannebery got injured. Franklin was sore too. Swans got within a point of the dogs midway through the final quarter then the dogs kicked the next 3 and won by 20. Had the swans won this game, would of been the perfect way to end the era.

The umpiring in 2016 still angers me. It was truly shocking and honestly was probably the difference between winning and losing.

Buddy getting injured in the first few minutes did not help either.

 

[Freomaniac]

The umpiring in 2016 still angers me. It was truly shocking and honestly was probably the difference between winning and losing.

Buddy getting injured in the first few minutes did not help either.

Dont get me wrong the umpiring didnt help. I say Hanners broken leg hurt the swans to as it was still in the balance. a fully fit Dan Hannebery and a fully fit Buddy franklin definately would of made the difference.

Kurt tippet had a shocker though: 10 disposals and 1 behind.

As far as umpiring is concerned, it wasnt as one sided at the Dogs vs Crows game in the middle of that season too. Crows fans hate Troy Pannell with a passion. in the 1st 3 quarters of the dogs game, Pannell gave 18 free kicks: 17 to the dogs, 1 to the crows. Had that count was 12 to the dogs then 6 to the crows then fair enough I expected that.

Pannell made it obvious he had money on the dogs that day.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Spot on, making the Grand Final and losing it is putrid. That’s why the great clubs don’t lose Grand Finals in the AFl era. And the even greater clubs put them to bed early, no exceptions. Saying let’s go all out to make as many GF’s as we can in the hope that we win one every now and then, that is sloppy. Great clubs at the cutting edge of performance target the ones they can nail and they nail them. This is why we have won twice was many Grand Finals in the last 2 years and 3 months as you have in the last 62 completed seasons. You seem to want to copy everything else we do but you somehow haven’t mastered that bit.

What an absolute load of Craap

The AFL is an entertainment business - I mean the draw is so compromised - you finish down the ladder you get an easier draw - what a joke

The EPL have got the best system - everyone plays everyone twice - home and away to determine the champion team - - no lucky winners or unlucky losers

The biggest farce in the AFL Finals system = is a team can win 22 out of of 22 - wins its 1st final by 25 goals - yet still has to win a knockout prelim what a joke

 

[brett15]

The biggest farce in the AFL Finals system = is a team can win 22 out of of 22 - wins its 1st final by 25 goals - yet still has to win a knockout prelim what a joke

Was a bigger farce when it was the McIntyre 8 system. In 1998 Melbourne(4th) smashed Adelaide(5th) in week 1, Melbourne then ended up losing to North Melbourne in the Prelim while Adelaide got a double-chance from 5th and went on to win the Grand Final.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What an absolute load of Craap

The AFL is an entertainment business - I mean the draw is so compromised - you finish down the ladder you get an easier draw - what a joke

The EPL have got the best system - everyone plays everyone twice - home and away to determine the champion team - - no lucky winners or unlucky losers

The biggest farce in the AFL Finals system = is a team can win 22 out of of 22 - wins its 1st final by 25 goals - yet still has to win a knockout prelim what a joke

GOB that is the Geelong version of a Richmond supporter saying the biggest farce is we have so many matches other than Grand Finals. How have you clowns so skilfully managed to avoid playing us in a GF again since we trounced you in 67?

Your attitude is endemic throughout the whole club and supporter base. You are frightened of finals. You think you should be awarded some kind of special status without being put to the final acid test.

138.73, what is that GOB? That is our percentage against Geelongtimesinceyouwonwhenitmattered in finals since time immemorial. Perhaps go and start another thread entitled which p!ssweak club has an abysmal finals record but manages to rack up meaningless home and away victories for fun? And leave the big boys to argue it out here over which parts of September matter most.

 

[Freomaniac]

Sounds like EPL is the game for you.

Grand finals is the best benchmark in the AFL.

EPL is a strange beast. Only problem is there is no Salary cap.

Yeah its a 20 team comp. each side takes on 19 opponents twice over 9-10 months. Mid week games too.

NBA has 30 teams. But that has 82 games in 6-7 months which is nuts as teams play 3-4 times a week.

If it was like a 58 game season or each team faces their opponent twice, once at home the other away, it would be good but the NBA loves its money. theres like 4-6 games played each day as well.

At least there is a Salary cap in the NBA. The Salary cap is 100 million and a 15 or 16 player roster. I am not a fan of Max contracts. A max contract is 25% of the salary cap for 4 years. Yes the most amount of money a player can get is 25% of the cap for 4 years. Imagine paying one bloke 25 million US a year for 4 years and that player gets injured for half a season?

Personally, in my humble opinion, no player should be on 20%. 20 mil a year is plenty of money.

Then you got endorsement deals. I know Derrick rose has an endorsement with a shoe company with Adidas. I think its around 180 million over 12 years or 15 million a year. So he can be on an endorsement deal and be on a minimum contract for a contender like a Cleveland Cavs side for 3 million a year.

NBA winning the NBA finals is the benchmark of the NBA.

 

[Freomaniac]

What an absolute load of Craap

The AFL is an entertainment business - I mean the draw is so compromised - you finish down the ladder you get an easier draw - what a joke

The EPL have got the best system - everyone plays everyone twice - home and away to determine the champion team - - no lucky winners or unlucky losers

The biggest farce in the AFL Finals system = is a team can win 22 out of of 22 - wins its 1st final by 25 goals - yet still has to win a knockout prelim what a joke

Well the old VFL before the Expansion in 1987 wasnt too bad.

If were talking about 1986. The VFL had the salary cap. 12 teams and a 22 round season. Each side played each team twice at home and away. 5 teams out of 12 made finals.

EPLs only knock is that it has no Salary cap.

NBA isnt that bad. You got a Salary cap. But you have 30 teams and 82 game season. If it had only 58 games spreaded from october-April, then it would of been fair.

Also the NBA finals system is nuts. Only one side has won the championship from 6th spot. Only one side has made the NBA finals from 8th.

 

[Pessimistic]

Other than actual performing, which team performs best?

makes no sense.

could understand if it was other than premierships, which team is most consistent

 

[Pessimistic]

Let’s make it after each grand final, as surely the Doggies finished first, not seventh, in 2016.
Cats = 5.53
West Coast = 6.60
Hawthorn = 7.14
Sydney = 7.14
North = 7.28
Adelaide = 7.44
Port Adelaide = 8.00
Collingwood = 8.17
Essendon = 8.39
Bulldogs = 8.53
St Kilda = 9.14
Carlton = 9.57
Brisbane = 10.28
Fremantle = 10.47
Melbourne = 10.71
Richmond = 10.50
GWS = 12.00
Fitzroy = 13.28
Gold Coast = 15.28

From the roar article

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm really 50:50 on whether you are a troll or just really delusional. I'm entertained either way.

I think he’s serious.

 

[hk89]

WCE have played 32 interstate finals in the AFL era, the majority at the MCG and quite a few at Waverley. They've won 10, drawn 1 and lost 21.

Hawthorn have played 6 interstate finals in the AFL era, they have won 2 and lost 4.

So in terms of percentage wins, Hawthorn is only one win different to WC's record, which is hardly significant. All the non-VIC teams will have much higher number of interstate games because of the over abundance of vic teams, and this is offset by having genuine home ground advantages against almost every other team in the league, something vic teams other than Geelong generally haven't had, although Hawthorn's Tassie games have been handy in that regard in recent times.

To win 4 flags they've done it tougher than anyone else in the AFL era.

Sure, if you think travel is the only component of winning a flag. They have a significant home ground advantage that allows them to more easily rack up h&a wins, which is a direct factor in finishing high enough on the ladder to have a good shot at making a GF.

 

[hk89]

1. Geelong
2. West Coast
2. St Kilda
3. Collingwood
4. Hawthorn
5. Brisbane
6. Sydney
7. Adelaide

9. North
10. Richmond

11. Essendon

Looks like a ranking of the biggest chokers in the AFL era, except with WC , Hawthorn, and Brisbane way too high. Geelong and Saints about right.

 

[Pessimistic]

But we don’t play home and away, for glory, the top 8 go into. A finals series

Let’s decide it head to head over the 30 years

ef1 north v Collingwood. Collingwood wins 23-19
ef2 Adelaide v port Adelaide . Adelaide wins 27-20. Adelaide 1 final win
qf1 Geelong v Sydney. Geelong wins 30-19 22 games kardinia park finals sydney
qf2 west coast v hawthorn. Wes coast win 25-21 22 games in WA finals 3-2 hawthorn including 2 premierships

sf1 Sydney v Collingwood. Collingwood win 23-17 27 games in sydney. Finals 1-1
Sf2 hawthorn v Adelaide. Hawthorn 23-19 19 games in Adelaide finals hawthorn 3-1 all in Victoria

pf1 Geelong v hawthorn Geelong win 28-27 9 games kardinia park finals hawthorn 5-2
Pf2 west coast v Collingwood. West coast 28-22 18 games in WA. Finals Collingwood 4-3 plus draw. 3 finals in WA

Gf Geelong v west coast. Geelong win 24-23 18 games in WA finals west coast 4-2 including premiership


So Geelong come out on top but with a very close run grand based on (earned) home ground advantage also a very close prelimwin

it shows that hawthorns grand finals strength against west coastand Geelong, together with west coasts over Geelong, why the hawks are on 5 and the eagles on 4

hawks 5 from 6. Eagles 4 from 6. Geelong 3 from 7. Brisbane 3 from 4 adelaide 2 from 3. richmond 2 from 3 north 2 from 3 Sydney 2 from 5. Collingwood 2 from 6

We also see that Sydney’s last decade more than makes up for a woeful 1990s, but they are very poor in finals, despite having 2 flags

Let’s make it after each grand final, as surely the Doggies finished first, not seventh, in 2016.
Cats = 5.53
West Coast = 6.60
Hawthorn = 7.14
Sydney = 7.14
North = 7.28
Adelaide = 7.44
Port Adelaide = 8.00
Collingwood = 8.17
Essendon = 8.39
Bulldogs = 8.53
St Kilda = 9.14
Carlton = 9.57
Brisbane = 10.28
Fremantle = 10.47
Melbourne = 10.71
Richmond = 10.50
GWS = 12.00
Fitzroy = 13.28
Gold Coast = 15.28

From the roar article