Ratten gone?

[Murraj1966]

People questioning the calibre of the draftees at the time of being drafted must also look at the developmental process that they went through and not just think they came into being as the players they are now.

Not to toot my clubs horn, but lets take Lenny Hayes as an example, he came into a club that was fading into bottom 4 finishes, but still had players like Rob Harvey, Nathan Burke Andrew Thompson etc to learn from, Riewoldt had Stewie Loewe to learn from (kicks like him too sadly).

The point is that draft talent has to be shaped correctly and Carlton in the mid 2000's had nobody to teach the players about how to go about it at AFL level besides Kouta who was already shot by then and couldn't lead by example, who's to say if Carlton drafted Cotchin instead of Kruezer that Cotchin wouldn't be a soft plodder and Kruezer wouldn't be the new Polly Farmer. Who's to say that Gibbs wouldn't have become an elite midfielder with a booming kick at Geelong and Joel Selwood might have gone the way of Adam. It doesn't start and end on draft day.

 

[royals1922]

If bringing Judd in doesn't fix anything, what's the point of bringing a bunch of 18 year old draftees in? What if JJ Kennedy was the second coming at full forward but Carlton just can't develop him properly?

Easy- you play the 18 year olds together, give them match time,they learn together and a camaraderie develops amongst a group that has played together. They reach 75 games together and start maturing as a group - just as Gold coast had matured when they beat Carlton in their second year together.

 

[Morris Major]

Easy- you play the 18 year olds together, give them match time,they learn together and a camaraderie develops amongst a group that has played together. They reach 75 games together and start maturing as a group - just as Gold coast had matured when they beat Carlton in their second year together.

I can't believe it took me this long to realise

 

[Dory_77]

Quite so but you bringing Judd into a side that was not that great was clearly not going to fix the problem.

As for Kennedy, but here's atip, when the eagles want a player of yours, they see something you may not have seen as they very rarely trade for a player.

Didn't Judd want to go home, which forced their hand and made them trade? I'm sure Carlton saw the potential in him too, but Judd at the time was amongst the best in the competition, while Kennedy and the picks were more speculative.

 

[JustaBattler]

You've not answered my question - assume he was the putative number 1 for the moment - how come Selwood has flown out the blocks while Gibbs has not advanced at all.

Selwood has been blessed to play amongst the best group of players assembled in the last 20 years do yu really need me to type Geelongs playing list ?

Gibbs/Kreuzer/Murphy Walker etc were kids thrown into a team day one , a team which had nothing - NOTHING - they had to develop themselves with no protection and no mentoring on field. People underestimate the importance of Judd coming to Carlton - he set a benchmark of professionalism on and off the field - and was good enough pretty much to carry this group of kids on his shoulders alone. As for Yarran - again - people forget just how young he is - Chris can develop into a super star of the game over the next few years - probably Carlton's nly genuine potential AA player at the moment.

As for Ratts - becoming a senior Coach is a hard gig. He has done a good job lifting Carlton from Wooden spoon to some sort of respectability. Injuries have cruelled Carlton this year. I don't care about losing to Suns - the weaknesses in the team were exposed as of the manner of the losses to Saints and Adelaide and put in bold when Port beat Carlton by 10 goals...Carlton is one big bodied midfielder and one experienced big game key forward short of completeness. We wont get the injury toll we did this year and a few young players have been found and blooded.

As for the decision about Ratts - it is 50/50 and that is why Malthouse is making loud noises and why wouldn't he put his hand up? The team list is a lot better than most give credit - when fit there are 30 AFL standard players to choose from. The Club isnt short of cash and a 'hero' coach with all the associated intrigue and drama that Malthouses 'exit' from Collingwood delivers - will certainly attract sponsorship and maybe see the Club crack 50-60K members. Carlton is a Melboune Club - Malthouse is an 'easy' option for all parties concerned IF the decision has been made.

There really isn't a lot separating teams these days - sadly for Rats the success of Sanderson (as one example) or Lyons as another example in year 1 at a team with a decent list - is probably counting against him.

Does anyone really think that Sanderson and Lyon are so much better than Malthouse? That Malthouse can't see the opportunity he has with Carlton's list?

A pre season is a long time in footy.

 

[andypie]

I wonder if Carltons financial position will play a part.
Can the blues afford to pay out Ratten then fork out the mega dollars Malthouse will want?

 

[Sam The Doc]

I wonder if Carltons financial position will play a part.
Can the blues afford to pay out Ratten then fork out the mega dollars Malthouse will want?

Yes.

 

[Morris Major]

I wonder if Carltons financial position will play a part.
Can the blues afford to pay out Ratten then fork out the mega dollars Malthouse will want?

Everyone is saying MM is in prime position to take over, but wouldn't he need some time to build his 'own' Carlton? Does this current list give him the luxury of time?

 

[Sam The Doc]

Everyone is saying MM is in prime position to take over, but wouldn't he need some time to build his 'own' Carlton? Does this current list give him the luxury of time?

Yes.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

I wonder if Carltons financial position will play a part.
Can the blues afford to pay out Ratten then fork out the mega dollars Malthouse will want?

AND the assistant coaches he would prefer as support - which would mean paying out the current list of assistants, as well as Ratten.

 

[SuperCats9]

Just putting this out there, but what about MM and Cloke to Richmond? Hardwick is under the pump, and if Malthouse is available, why don't the Tigers go after him? Cloke would surely follow.

If i was a coach, i would prefer to take over as coach of Richmond then Carlton, i feel their list has more potential and more chance of doing something in the next 4-5 years.

 

[Dustin Credible]

Just putting this out there, but what about MM and Cloke to Richmond? Hardwick is under the pump, and if Malthouse is available, why don't the Tigers go after him? Cloke would surely follow.

If i was a coach, i would prefer to take over as coach of Richmond then Carlton, i feel their list has more potential and more chance of doing something in the next 4-5 years.

Hardwick isn't under the pump as yet. Fail to make finals next year and he will be, but he has taken a team from being "worse than Fitzroy" to being a side with obvious potential (that you recognised). He's earnt the right to see what he can do with this young squad.

Ratten on the other hand is looking at being sacked now.

 

[SuperCats9]

Hardwick isn't under the pump as yet. Fail to make finals next year and he will be, but he has taken a team from being "worse than Fitzroy" to being a side with obvious potential (that you recognised). He's earnt the right to see what he can do with this young squad.

Ratten on the other hand is looking at being sacked now.

I agree with what you are saying, but seeing as MM has said he will be interested in coaching next year, i would have thought Richmond would be in the mix. Hardwick has done a fantastic job, as you mentioned, and it would be cruel to axe him after this season, but imagine MM at the Tigers with your young group of players? he'd get the best out of them and make Richmond a top 4 side no doubt.

Hardwick may do the same, time will tell, but Malthouse is a very good experienced coach.

 

[Dustin Credible]

I agree with what you are saying, but seeing as MM has said he will be interested in coaching next year, i would have thought Richmond would be in the mix. Hardwick has done a fantastic job, as you mentioned, and it would be cruel to axe him after this season, but imagine MM at the Tigers with your young group of players? he'd get the best out of them and make Richmond a top 4 side no doubt.

Hardwick may do the same, time will tell, but Malthouse is a very good experienced coach.

I don't doubt Malthouse's credentials as a coach, but I don't think Richmond are in the market for one.

Carlton on the other hand probably are, and they may see their best chance of success happening whilst Judd is still going around. Hence the need for a 'quick fix' coaching wise. Richmond are still on a development curve and such a move would be premature for us.

Just on Malthouse, how many coaches have won premierships with 3 different clubs?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Maybe if Carlton/ratten recruited footballers (paul puopolo for example) instead of half their front runners, they might be in a better position

 

[Ron The Bear]

Just putting this out there, but what about MM and Cloke to Richmond? Hardwick is under the pump, and if Malthouse is available, why don't the Tigers go after him?

I would terminate my membership of 22 years if that happened. It won't.

Just on Malthouse, how many coaches have won premierships with 3 different clubs?

None. Malthouse has already tried and won at 2, as did Barassi, Jeans and Parkin. Clark, Smith, Hafey and Blight tried at three or more clubs and won at 1.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Maybe if Carlton/ratten recruited footballers (paul puopolo for example) instead of half their front runners, they might be in a better position

THe same guy that shits himself when the pressure is on?

But you are right, we have front runners. Which is why we need new coaching staff...you're on the ball!

 

[Mitchell Madness]

THe same guy that shits himself when the pressure is on?

But you are right, we have front runners. Which is why we need new coaching staff...you're on the ball!

never seen puppy even flap an eyelid at a contest, and is one of the few players in the comp who doesnt drop his head, nowhere near the most talented, but by far one of the most reliable


the problem is, as long as the board remains the same at carlton, nothing will change
They are where hawthorn was not that long ago
they need to get rid of the supporters on the board and replace them with businesspeople, ones not as emotionally attached to the club

 

[thejester]

On another note, find it amazing that the media has suddenly developed a conscience over Ratten...and are painting him as a victim of Carlton's 'arrogance'. Surely there's an element of live by the sword, die by the sword?

 

[half_back_flank]

Maybe if Carlton/ratten recruited footballers (paul puopolo for example) instead of half their front runners, they might be in a better position

Puopolo is a role player at best.

He wouldn't make one iota of different to Carlton.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Simple, is he, or does he get another crack?

Only going by what happening with Port with the fallout following the loss to GWS.

I will be amazed if Carlton dump this bloke . He doesn,t deserve it . Send Mick Malthouse to Port .
The Carlton football club several years ago broke the rules . Everyone knows what I,m talking about.
Instead of removing the culprits and cleaning the place out , the idiots in the AFL went about demolishing that club with draft restrictions massive fines and damn near killed that club.
For me that was a stupid idiotic way to punish a football club.

What it did was ruin that club for years to come and to ruin it for players and innocent members and administrators and for future coaches. Worst of all the AFL created a situation where it turned on the most important of all people, the members and fans and followers of Carlton , people who were dedicated supporters had been spending money for years going to footy . These people in all clubs are the ones who get screwed over when the AFL decides to make an example of administrators and others involved in a single club.
Yes there was salary cap cheating by a group, but is it right to massacre every one of the thousands who
support and follow the club.
Thats what happened, they killed one ant with a steam roller.

Ratten has lifted the club over the last few years, next season will be a big break through.
It would be a tragedy to dump a man who gives everything. Some of his players should wear the whole terrible resposibility for the GC game. If Ratten needs replacing then WHY??? What was the score last week, I think that dampens that argument. They destroyed Essendon. They took the foot off for one game stupidly , THAT IS NOT DOWN TO THE COACH. Players make coaches, not the other way around, big bad mistake removing Ratten. They must give him another season. Having scape goats is a cowards way out , Kernahan should be supporting him absolutely!!! Not crapping on him, like in tonights news, with the same old end of the season we,ll look at everything bullshit whats that tell you. Are these people stupid.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Should be sacked tonight! That was rubbish and he was out coached again.
Beaten by a 2nd year side missing 13 of its best 22.

If Kernahan, MacKay and Swan are any good at their roles he won't be coach tomorrow.

Traitor, simple, and your a Carlton person too.

 

[kranky al]

Selwood has been blessed to play amongst the best group of players assembled in the last 20 years do yu really need me to type Geelongs playing list ?

Gibbs/Kreuzer/Murphy Walker etc were kids thrown into a team day one , a team which had nothing - NOTHING - they had to develop themselves with no protection and no mentoring on field. People underestimate the importance of Judd coming to Carlton - he set a benchmark of professionalism on and off the field - and was good enough pretty much to carry this group of kids on his shoulders alone. As for Yarran - again - people forget just how young he is - Chris can develop into a super star of the game over the next few years - probably Carlton's nly genuine potential AA player at the moment.

As for Ratts - becoming a senior Coach is a hard gig. He has done a good job lifting Carlton from Wooden spoon to some sort of respectability. Injuries have cruelled Carlton this year. I don't care about losing to Suns - the weaknesses in the team were exposed as of the manner of the losses to Saints and Adelaide and put in bold when Port beat Carlton by 10 goals...Carlton is one big bodied midfielder and one experienced big game key forward short of completeness. We wont get the injury toll we did this year and a few young players have been found and blooded.

As for the decision about Ratts - it is 50/50 and that is why Malthouse is making loud noises and why wouldn't he put his hand up? The team list is a lot better than most give credit - when fit there are 30 AFL standard players to choose from. The Club isnt short of cash and a 'hero' coach with all the associated intrigue and drama that Malthouses 'exit' from Collingwood delivers - will certainly attract sponsorship and maybe see the Club crack 50-60K members. Carlton is a Melboune Club - Malthouse is an 'easy' option for all parties concerned IF the decision has been made.

There really isn't a lot separating teams these days - sadly for Rats the success of Sanderson (as one example) or Lyons as another example in year 1 at a team with a decent list - is probably counting against him.

Does anyone really think that Sanderson and Lyon are so much better than Malthouse? That Malthouse can't see the opportunity he has with Carlton's list?

A pre season is a long time in footy.

pretty much this - a horrendous injury season had us slide to last - last ffs before coming 4th the next year


a horrendous injury season has seen a dominant essendon slide from top of the ladder to out of the 8

i lose it when i see people ignore injuries - on the sydney board before the eagles sydney game we were all saying we didnt stand a chance and were going to get reamed - i swear there was a load of them on there who thought it was a mind game so when we won we could claim extra credit when we eventually won - nope - we were ****ed and didnt stand a chance and we knew it.

in form team with few injuries meets team that is out of form as its best players are injured - 9/10 = flogging


that bit of maths should be up there with pythagorus as far as footy goes

DER

 

[JustaBattler]

pretty much this - a horrendous injury season had us slide to last - last ffs before coming 4th the next year


a horrendous injury season has seen a dominant essendon slide from top of the ladder to out of the 8

i lose it when i see people ignore injuries - on the sydney board before the eagles sydney game we were all saying we didnt stand a chance and were going to get reamed - i swear there was a load of them on there who thought it was a mind game so when we won we could claim extra credit when we eventually won - nope - we were screwed and didnt stand a chance and we knew it.

in form team with few injuries meets team that is out of form as its best players are injured - 9/10 = flogging


that bit of maths should be up there with pythagorus as far as footy goes

DER

Well I agree with you there Kranky - but then again some might say - ah BS that's Carlton fan excuses..
people will think what they will think
injuries do what injuries do...

 

[JustaBattler]

I will be amazed if Carlton dump this bloke . He doesn,t deserve it . Send Mick Malthouse to Port .
The Carlton football club several years ago broke the rules . Everyone knows what I,m talking about.
Instead of removing the culprits and cleaning the place out , the idiots in the AFL went about demolishing that club with draft restrictions massive fines and damn near killed that club.
For me that was a stupid idiotic way to punish a football club.



Ratten has lifted the club over the last few years, next season will be a big break through.
It would be a tragedy to dump a man who gives everything. Some of his players should wear the whole terrible resposibility for the GC game. If Ratten needs replacing then WHY??? What was the score last week, I think that dampens that argument. They destroyed Essendon. They took the foot off for one game stupidly , THAT IS NOT DOWN TO THE COACH. Players make coaches, not the other way around, big bad mistake removing Ratten. ...Are these people stupid.

top post A fair and balanced treatment of history and why the Club is where it is today - it was shut out of the draft for two years - 2 Years - think about it- the turds that did that...morons - the wrong people were punished - the supporters. Puts Ratts achievements in perspective. Well done for a WhoreXx supporter.