Ratten gone?

[Hard_to_Beat]

Sacking the coach won't fix anything.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

What a cliche ridden load of bullshit ?

We won three wooden spoons and turned over our entire coaching staff and virtually every player bar Scotland, Waite and Carrazzo.

Clearly at this point it hasn't been successful but apart from digging up and replanting the grass at Visy, what else should we have rebuilt ?

I get it - Carlton recruit Judd its taking a 'premiership shortcut'. North recruit Boak and it's 'progressive thinking' ??

I know you're doing roll-eyes, but Boak, if North got him, would be a top-up. The only way the two situations would be comparable is if we got Kerry Stokes to pay Boak a (now illegal) salary outside the cap and made Boak captain before he arrived.

This is about what Carlton might do differently. North and other clubs have nothing to do with it.

FWIW, to me the "get Malthouse" push has all the hallmarks of the "get Judd" move. It's not about a Messiah - and trying something because it worked for Collingwood (eventually) would be especially lame.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

FWIW, to me the "get Malthouse" push has all the hallmarks of the "get Judd" move. It's not about a Messiah - and trying something because it worked for Collingwood (eventually) would be especially lame.

Agree 100%.

This has all the hallmarks of classic "old Carlton" thinking.

A paradigm shift is required. Carltons true saviors will be the agents of change.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Typically it's the positive promises that come back to bite people on the bum.

Worsfold promised Eagles supporters mid-2010 that they wouldn't win their first wooden spoon, and he still has a job.

 

[AFLQLD]

The role of coach gets overstated on game day somewhat in my opinion.

Teams in particular that play brilliantly one week and poorly the next are not coached brilliantly one week and poorly the next. There are multiple other factors that affect performance far more than the coach's decisions on game day. The coach is still a factor but probably rarely the decisive one.

The sacking of coaches based on a bad loss or even a number of bad losses, among some good, or even great wins suggests that:
A) he can actually coach based on the team getting the wins
B) he isn't able to get his team performing consistently at that high level
C) the consistency issues are either going to improve over time as the team matures and develops or the general level of performance drops as the team bottoms out

The issue with a team like Carlton is that they appear to not be going one way or the other in the last few seasons - neither becoming a consistently winning team or bottoming out to rebuild. They are not alone either and for a coach it is probably the worst position to be in. You can't show evidence of rebuilding by developing a heap of young players (eg Brisbane post 2009) or show evidence of a general consistency of performance (eg Hawthorn or Sydney).

The result is the one thing that clubs and fans might hate more than bottoming out (which holds promise of future development) and that is stagnation in the middle parts of the table, knowing that the slide back down might be just a season or two away. That gets coaches sacked.

 

[Xtreme]

They should give him a 5 year deal. He brings the laughs to the general football public.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

It's funny how easy it is to get rid of coaches, but not players.

Carlton were masterfully coached by Ratten last night. The Blues led in disposals, clearances, contested possessions, inside 50's, tackles and scoring shots! There's not much more a coach could do.

The finger should be pointed at none other than Levi Casboult. 5 Behinds. Zero Goals. This bastard lost Carlton the game by wasting their opportunities. Now he's put Ratten out of a job.

Nice try, Casboult! You haven't got me fooled.

 

[DG-Man]

The most influential person who has overseen the football dept from the time of cheating the cap, the spoons, the Pagan/Mitchell fiasco, the Fev fiasco . . . . and ultimately the sacking of Ratts.

"Sticks" should be called Teflon . . . because nothing seems to stick with him.

You love going Sticks and the Blues. I thought we'd lost you and Firey when Saints came up short again and again. Good to see you back. It's not that you can't handle the badgers here it's just a choice of where you need to position yourself. Good to have ya back.

 

[DG-Man]

It's funny how easy it is to get rid of coaches, but not players.

Carlton were masterfully coached by Ratten last night. The Blues led in disposals, clearances, contested possessions, inside 50's, tackles and scoring shots! There's not much more a coach could do.

The finger should be pointed at none other than Levi Casboult. 5 Behinds. Zero Goals. This bastard lost Carlton the game by wasting their opportunities. Now he's put Ratten out of a job.

Nice try, Casboult! You haven't got me fooled.

Disagree. Carlton's structure and systems let them down and led to wastefulness. Atrocious going into the 50. That is the coach and coaches problem.
Your last sentence is moronic. Casboult can't kick. Drops the ball like a backman

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Worsfold promised Eagles supporters mid-2010 that they wouldn't win their first wooden spoon, and he still has a job.

Yeah but he is a saint over here. Carlton are more ruthless when it comes to coaches.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I feel for Ratten, as I do all coaches. It's their livelihood but I suppose it's an elite business and there are only 18 senior gigs going around.

The coaches job is ultimately to build a side to win a premiership. As you said there are 18 senior gigs and only one premiership. It's effectively the AFL version of the Hunger Games.

 

[Ron The Bear]

The issue with a team like Carlton is that they appear to not be going one way or the other in the last few seasons - neither becoming a consistently winning team or bottoming out to rebuild.

Carlton of 2009-10 was the youngest finals team since West Coast in 2004, and one of the youngest few since the 1970's. They had rebuilt, and had a fantastic platform going into this year, which is why Ratten is under the pump (and why I picked them for the flag). The list is in its prime and there's plenty to work with. Perhaps they can do with more on-field leadership as the drop-off has coincided with Judd's quietest year.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Carlton of 2009-10 was the youngest finals team since West Coast in 2004, and one of the youngest few since the 1970's. They had rebuilt, and had a fantastic platform going into this year, which is why Ratten is under the pump (and why I picked them for the flag). The list is in its prime and there's plenty to work with. Perhaps they can do with more on-field leadership as the drop-off has coincided with Judd's quietest year.

This needs to be viewed from a broad angle. There has never been so many sides rebuilding at the same time in VFL/AFL history as during this period.

Sides made the 8 by default in 2009-2010.

Just look at Essendon 2009.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I know you're doing roll-eyes, but Boak, if North got him, would be a top-up.

That's right because, with your list, you guys have the premiership in the bag for the next couple of years. I've been hearing about it all week from your supporters on radio.

( I'll defer from doing the roll-eyes).

 

[Ed_Gein]

Worsfold promised Eagles supporters mid-2010 that they wouldn't win their first wooden spoon, and he still has a job.

He'd already taken them to a flag*. So he had the runs on the board.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

This needs to be viewed from a broad angle. There has never been so many sides rebuilding at the same time in VFL/AFL history as during this period.

Sides made the 8 by default in 2009-2010.

Just look at Essendon 2009.

Whereas now North has made it, I suppose it's some monumental feat.

Can you tossers be anymore arrogant ???

 

[Bollox]

They've developed a fierce losing culture...blokes like Kernahan try to hide behind what dear ole dad managed to do when u could kick a brown paper bag under the table.
Board needs to start accepting some responsibility...too easy for them to allocate blame.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

That's right because, with your list, you guys have the premiership in the bag for the next couple of years.

( I'll defer from doing the roll-eyes).

North have addressed a rebuild in a far more proper fashion than Carlton. We did not seek out short term solutions.

The blues would kill to have any of our top 6 or 7 KPP's.

Any one of Petrie, Tarrant, Hansen, Grima, Thompson, Pederson, Luke Delaney, Cam Delaney, Aaron Edwards, Ben Warren, Ben McKinley or Aaron Black would get a game in the current Carlton side.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

North have addressed a rebuild in a far more proper fashion than Carlton. We did not seek out short term solutions.

The blues would kill to have any of our top 6 or 7 KPP's.

Any one of Petrie, Tarrant, Hansen, Grima, Thompson, Pederson, Luke Delaney, Cam Delaney, Aaron Edwards, Ben Warren, Ben McKinley or Aaron Black would get a game in the current Carlton side.

What were our short term solutions ? Let me guess - Judd.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Whereas now North has made it, I suppose it's some monumental feat.

Can you tossers be anymore arrogant ???

Arrogant?

We have just undergone the largest root and branch rebuild in the clubs history and have endured some horrendous smashings over the last 3 years.

We have not taken any short cuts.

Verifiable data supports the notion that most North supporters believed the team would rise to 6th or 7th in 2012, so I suppose that supports the idea that we are a pretty realistic lot.

We're not anywhere near premiership material yet, and I will be completely amazed if we see any embarrassing "they know we're coming" type dung exuding from Arden street in 2013.

 

[Ron The Bear]

This needs to be viewed from a broad angle. There has never been so many sides rebuilding at the same time in VFL/AFL history as during this period.

Sides made the 8 by default in 2009-2010.

Just look at Essendon 2009.

Some truth to that, but Carlton was ahead of the curve in development. They defeated seasoned units in St.Kilda, Sydney and Geelong (twice) in that period. The only other young team to beat Geelong in six years is Hawthorn, in early 2007, on the way to bigger things.

Suspect the players need to take a look at themselves. e.g. I like Robinson, but that gangsta shit he does on the field with Betts suggests the players aren't focused enough.

The list is in great shape. If e.g. Ross Lyon was finishing at St.Kilda this year, I reckon he'd choose Carlton ahead of Freo every day of the week.

 

[Black Diamond]

The list is in great shape. If e.g. Ross Lyon was finishing at St.Kilda this year, I reckon he'd choose Carlton ahead of Freo every day of the week.

Putting aside staying in Melbourne v moving to Perth, I'd say not. Fremantle are far more balanced side, especially with the quality of their spine which isn't elite but is definitely better than what Carlton have. Freo's mids have shown much more endeavour than Carlton's too, whose seem unwilling to do the hard work in a close game but lap up the opportunity to murder a poorer opponent.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Putting aside staying in Melbourne v moving to Perth, I'd say not. Fremantle are far more balanced side, especially with the quality of their spine which isn't elite but is definitely better than what Carlton have. Freo's mids have shown much more endeavour than Carlton's too, whose seem unwilling to do the hard work in a close game but lap up the opportunity to murder a poorer opponent.

Yeah I'd probably agree after this year that Freo has a better work ethic.

 

[DG-Man]

Carlton will bounce back next year for a top 4-6. They won't have 2 years with these kind of injuries and have unearthed some good youngsters due to said injuries.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Losing last night makes our season almost as shit as Essendons.

Almost.

No, it's actually worse.

One side was heavily tipped to miss the 8. The other was supposed to be a Top 4 lock.