Ravi Ashwin

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

The_Reaper said:
His bowling average outside India is better than Lyon's career average everywhere.
Click to expand...
Shithouse average in Australia. No average (no wickets) in South Africa. Average at best in England.
All other tours are irrelevant. Spin friendly tracks.

Hence, hard to rate effectively.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Shithouse average in Australia. No average (no wickets) in South Africa. Average at best in England.
All other tours are irrelevant. Spin friendly tracks.

Hence, hard to rate effectively.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty easy to rate him as the best spinner in the world at the moment.

Historical rating isn't really relevant yet, considering he could have another 6-8 years of international cricket left in him.
 
Damon_3388 said:
I think it's pretty easy to rate him as the best spinner in the world at the moment.

Historical rating isn't really relevant yet, considering he could have another 6-8 years of international cricket left in him.
Click to expand...
Ok, so if you had a pitch that was close to a net session pitch. No swing. No movement. Easy paced. etc. and batsmen scored a pile of runs on them would you rate those players down based on the ease with which they were scored?

personally, I'd rate them according to how they play in adverse conditions, my major gripe with the batsmen we've produced in recent years.
Well, for me anyway, the same applies here in reverse. Shah has a similar problem as well. So dominant in the subcontinent where spin bowling is prevalent but average elsewhere.

So for me, given that Lyon is decent without being spectacular, the title of best spinner in the world is rather meaningless.
At present I would not say there's a single test spinner in the world that is great. There's a couple who's stats are padded in the subcontinent, just like Warner's have been padded here.

FWIW, If I had to pick the best spinner in the world it'd be Herath.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Ok, so if you had a pitch that was close to a net session pitch. No swing. No movement. Easy paced. etc. and batsmen scored a pile of runs on them would you rate those players down based on the ease with which they were scored?

personally, I'd rate them according to how they play in adverse conditions, my major gripe with the batsmen we've produced in recent years.
Well, for me anyway, the same applies here in reverse. Shah has a similar problem as well. So dominant in the subcontinent where spin bowling is prevalent but average elsewhere.

So for me, given that Lyon is decent without being spectacular, the title of best spinner in the world is rather meaningless.
At present I would not say there's a single test spinner in the world that is great. There's a couple who's stats are padded in the subcontinent, just like Warner's have been padded here.
Click to expand...

The bolded indicates that you're bringing historical context into it. I'm not, I'm just talking about right now.

Doctor Gero said:
FWIW, If I had to pick the best spinner in the world it'd be Herath.
Click to expand...

Why?

Ashwin
Overall - 24.22 average, 49.87 strike rate, 2.91 economy rate
Home - 20.87 average, 45.29 strike rate, 2.76 economy rate
Away/Neutral - 33.23 average, 62.16 strike rate, 3.21 economy rate (Nathan Lyon's career numbers - 33.48 average, 63.34 strike rate, 3.17 economy rate)

Herath
Overall - 27.97 average, 60.77 strike rate, 2.76 economy rate
Home - 23.14 average, 51.64 strike rate, 2.69 economy rate
Away/Neutral - 37.28 average, 78.34 strike rate, 2.85 economy rate

Ashwin clearly more potent, and Herath hasn't really done anything outside of Sri Lanka.
 
Damon_3388 said:
Ashwin
Overall - 24.22 average, 49.87 strike rate, 2.91 economy rate
Home - 20.87 average, 45.29 strike rate, 2.76 economy rate
Away/Neutral - 33.23 average, 62.16 strike rate, 3.21 economy rate (Nathan Lyon's career numbers - 33.48 average, 63.34 strike rate, 3.17 economy rate)

Herath
Overall - 27.97 average, 60.77 strike rate, 2.76 economy rate
Home - 23.14 average, 51.64 strike rate, 2.69 economy rate
Away/Neutral - 37.28 average, 78.34 strike rate, 2.85 economy rate

Ashwin clearly more potent, and Herath hasn't really done anything outside of Sri Lanka.
Click to expand...
Those stats aren't meaningful. I don't give a s**t how players do away/home to s**t nations. So for spinners how they do in England, SA, Aus are more important than v poor scrub nations like WI, NZ, Bangladesh etc. especially on the subcontinent.

Ashwin:
In Aus - 55 Average, 97 strike rate, 3.4 economy rate.
In SA - 2.6 economy rate. No average/SR as no wickets (1 match)
In Eng - 34 average, 71 strike rate, 2.8 economy rate.

Also 180/247 (or 73% of wickets in India, 60% of matches).

Herath:
In Aus - 34 Average, 67 strike rate, 3.0 economy rate.
In SA - 28 average, 69 strike rate, 2.4 economy rate.
In Eng - 45 average, 94 strike rate, 2.9 economy rate.

So Herath is better in 2/3 nations that matter most.

231/351 wickets in S.L (66% in 55% of matches).

Imo, that shows that while neither are world beaters on tour Herath is better than Ashwin in less friendly spin conditions, a consideration that needs to be taken into account given India in particular are not immune to doctoring pitches which aid Ashwin and Jadeja.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Ok, so if you had a pitch that was close to a net session pitch. No swing. No movement. Easy paced. etc. and batsmen scored a pile of runs on them would you rate those players down based on the ease with which they were scored?

personally, I'd rate them according to how they play in adverse conditions, my major gripe with the batsmen we've produced in recent years.
Well, for me anyway, the same applies here in reverse. Shah has a similar problem as well. So dominant in the subcontinent where spin bowling is prevalent but average elsewhere.

So for me, given that Lyon is decent without being spectacular, the title of best spinner in the world is rather meaningless.
At present I would not say there's a single test spinner in the world that is great. There's a couple who's stats are padded in the subcontinent, just like Warner's have been padded here.

FWIW, If I had to pick the best spinner in the world it'd be Herath.
Click to expand...

Yasir shah has played bugger all games overseas but didn't he win Pakistan a test in England this year?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Doctor Gero said:
Those stats aren't meaningful. I don't give a s**t how players do away/home to s**t nations. So for spinners how they do in England, SA, Aus are more important than v poor scrub nations like WI, NZ, Bangladesh etc. especially on the subcontinent.

Ashwin:
In Aus - 55 Average, 97 strike rate, 3.4 economy rate.
In SA - 2.6 economy rate. No average/SR as no wickets (1 match)
In Eng - 34 average, 71 strike rate, 2.8 economy rate.

Also 180/247 (or 73% of wickets in India, 60% of matches).

Herath:
In Aus - 34 Average, 67 strike rate, 3.0 economy rate.
In SA - 28 average, 69 strike rate, 2.4 economy rate.
In Eng - 45 average, 94 strike rate, 2.9 economy rate.

So Herath is better in 2/3 nations that matter most.

231/351 wickets in S.L (66% in 55% of matches).

Imo, that shows that while neither are world beaters on tour Herath is better than Ashwin in less friendly spin conditions, a consideration that needs to be taken into account given India in particular are not immune to doctoring pitches which aid Ashwin and Jadeja.
Click to expand...

Herath debuted in 1999 mate.

If he hadn't worked out how to at least be adequate overseas by now in comparison to Ashwin who has only been playing for 5 or 6 years at test level, it would be a major surprise.
 
PhatBoy said:
Herath debuted in 1999 mate.

If he hadn't worked out how to at least be adequate overseas by now in comparison to Ashwin who has only been playing for 5 or 6 years at test level, it would be a major surprise.
Click to expand...
Don't care when he debuted. Ashwin is an average spinner. there I said it.
take away his doctored pitches and he's ******* useless.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Don't care when he debuted. Ashwin is an average spinner. there I said it.
take away his doctored pitches and he's ******* useless.
Click to expand...

Doctored.

F*** me.

Get a grip mate.

I respect their players no.more than the next bloke for the fact that they rarely produce away from home. but f***ing f*** me in the d1ckhole with a firepoker if 'doctored pitches' is even more overused in sport than Bruce using the word 'special.'

When Australia churns out - abracadabra - fast bouncy pitches year after year that they are - amazingly - the same sort of pitches we've been churning out for a century.

But no. India, home of dry, dusty pitches for 6 decades, suddenly decides to start producing, wait for it, dry, dusty pitches, and it is pitch doctoring.

Whatever your opinion of ashwin, the doctored pitches argument is a cop out mate.
 
PhatBoy said:
Doctored.

F*** me.

Get a grip mate.

I respect their players no.more than the next bloke for the fact that they rarely produce away from home. but f***ing f*** me in the d1ckhole with a firepoker if 'doctored pitches' is even more overused in sport than Bruce using the word 'special.'

When Australia churns out - abracadabra - fast bouncy pitches year after year that they are - amazingly - the same sort of pitches we've been churning out for a century.

But no. India, home of dry, dusty pitches for 6 decades, suddenly decides to start producing, wait for it, dry, dusty pitches, and it is pitch doctoring.

Whatever your opinion of ashwin, the doctored pitches argument is a cop out mate.
Click to expand...
Go back to Chennai day 1 in 2013.
That turned square on the first session. Yet we're holding Ashwin up as some awesome spinner. Bloody hell.

Ashwin is BOG average.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Go back to Chennai day 1 in 2013.
That turned square on the first session. Yet we're holding Ashwin up as some awesome spinner. Bloody hell.

Ashwin is BOG average.
Click to expand...

If he was bog average he'd have the same record as every other spinner over there.

He is unerringly accurate, like most finger spinners suffers from a slight lack of tricks when conditions don't suit, and controls is pace and length perfectly.

Why can't pitches turn in session one but it's fine for pitches to assist pace bowling in session 5 on day 5?

Oh that's right because pitches that assist pace bowling are just good wickets, pitches that assist spin are doctored.

#aussielogic
 
Ashwin is easily the best spinner in the world right now. Has improved a lot over the last year. Anyone using the doctored pitches argument is just a reflection of their ignorance or immature stubbornness to look past their own preconceived notions.
 
Doctor Gero said:
Go back to Chennai day 1 in 2013.
That turned square on the first session. Yet we're holding Ashwin up as some awesome spinner. Bloody hell.

Ashwin is BOG average.
Click to expand...

Lol. Pretty sure on the Ind v Eng thread you somewhat supported Anderson's statements re: Kohli in the press. Because of how the pitches play.

Basically any performances on those pitches mean absolutely nothing in your books. Hilarious.
 
DT_fanatic said:
Lol. Pretty sure on the Ind v Eng thread you somewhat supported Anderson's statements re: Kohli in the press. Because of how the pitches play.

Basically any performances on those pitches mean absolutely nothing in your books. Hilarious.
Click to expand...

Spinners yeah. You learn nothing about them as bowlers. It's like playing the PlayStation on easy mode.

As we've seen away from the subcontinent he's crap. So yes I think he's merely an average spinner.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top