Razor Ray cheated.

ferball

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i think you need to go away and work out what "cheating" means. Razor Ray isn't cheating regardless of how many times you restate your incorrect view of his umpiring.
I think he cheated Jack Ziebell out of a shot on goal by allowing his emotional response to an incident to over ride his responsibility and ethical duty to call the game fairly and react to that incident impartially.

Go away and work out what that means.

Who is that in your avatar?
 

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Hojuman

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From the AFL website and rules of the game.

The purpose of the Laws is to explain how a Match of Australian Football is played and seek to attain the following objectives:

a) to ensure that the game of Australian Football is played in a fair manner and a spirit of true sportsmanship.
 

Oraaaaazio

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He's not the first umpire who didn't pay a free cause he thought someone dived. He won't be the last. From what he thought he saw, Ziebell dived. He's admitted that he got that wrong & he should've paid a free kick. He's a good umpire and owning his mistakes is a good thing.
 

Hojuman

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He's not the first umpire who didn't pay a free cause he thought someone dived. He won't be the last. From what he thought he saw, Ziebell dived. He's admitted that he got that wrong & he should've paid a free kick. He's a good umpire and owning his mistakes is a good thing.



Tell me how this is a " dive " ?
 

Oraaaaazio

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Tell me how this is a " dive " ?
In the tweet that you quoted, I said "From what he thought he saw, Ziebell dived" - Ray Chamberlain thought Ziebell dived from the angle he had.

Ziebell didn't dive, Ray got the decision wrong & has admitted as much. He certainly wasn't deliberately cheating, he didn't intend to screw over North Melbourne or Jack Ziebell, he made a decision based on what he thought that he had seen (Ziebell exaggerating contact to draw a free kick that wasn't there) & that was incorrect, a mistake - that's it.
 

Hojuman

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In the tweet that you quoted, I said "From what he thought he saw, Ziebell dived" - Ray Chamberlain thought Ziebell dived from the angle he had.

Ziebell didn't dive, Ray got the decision wrong & has admitted as much. He certainly wasn't deliberately cheating, he didn't intend to screw over North Melbourne or Jack Ziebell, he made a decision based on what he thought that he had seen (Ziebell exaggerating contact to draw a free kick that wasn't there) & that was incorrect, a mistake - that's it.


He has publicly stated ON RADIO that he thought Ziebell had tried to milk a free earlier, so when he saw this he thought " nah, sorry Jack, l can see it, but because of the incident earlier l'm not going to pay this one, even though l know l should "

Now. Should he have paid it ? Of course he should have ! You can't not pay an OBVIOUS free kick because you are " belligerent " as Ray said himself.
 

Oraaaaazio

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He has publicly stated ON RADIO that he thought Ziebell had tried to milk a free earlier, so when he saw this he thought " nah, sorry Jack, l can see it, but because of the incident earlier l'm not going to pay this one, even though l know l should "

Now. Should he have paid it ? Of course he should have ! You can't not pay an OBVIOUS free kick because you are " belligerent " as Ray said himself.
the bold above is not what he said, you made that up.

He did say that he doesn't like paying free kicks when players milk free kicks & he thought that's what Jack was doing. Of course he should have paid it but he didn't and he admitted he was wrong. Move on mate
 

Ricky Vaughn

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He has publicly stated ON RADIO that he thought Ziebell had tried to milk a free earlier, so when he saw this he thought " nah, sorry Jack, l can see it, but because of the incident earlier l'm not going to pay this one, even though l know l should "

Now. Should he have paid it ? Of course he should have ! You can't not pay an OBVIOUS free kick because you are " belligerent " as Ray said himself.
So he saw Ziebell try to milk a free kick earlier, which made him think he was doing it again.

Falls back on Ziebell, I expect he's learned a valuable lesson.
 

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ManInWhite

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For what it's worth, people everywhere else are saying the footy is being over umpired and only pay the major and obvious frees. Now a technical one comes along with a player milking it but everyone reckon what happened is wrong. Also, many of the rules are considering "the intent of a player" requiring an umpire to make a judgement call on what they believe happened. Going by the above, most people are saying it's not the umpires job to make judgement calls. This is why the game has almost become impossible to umpire.
 

ziad

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For what it's worth, people everywhere else are saying the footy is being over umpired and only pay the major and obvious frees. Now a technical one comes along with a player milking it but everyone reckon what happened is wrong. Also, many of the rules are considering "the intent of a player" requiring an umpire to make a judgement call on what they believe happened. Going by the above, most people are saying it's not the umpires job to make judgement calls. This is why the game has almost become impossible to umpire.
It wasnt technical and it wasnt milked
 

woosha24

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I don't know why this isn't getting more traction.

Ray's basically come out and said "I don't pay free kicks if I think the player staged for it, even if it was there", even remarking that he got "a bit belligerent" in this specific example and let that affect his job.

That's absolutely not ok, and he shouldn't be umpiring if he is letting his emotions dictate whether or not a player "deserves" a free kick. Its all well and good to sit here at our keyboards and say it wouldn't have changed the result (because it wouldn't), but could you imagine if something like this happened in a final or other close game, and your team lost because Ray thought to himself that he didn't have to apply the rules to certain players because "im feeling stubborn today"? Its a f*cking farce!

The AFL should pull him for the rest of the year under the guise of "re-training". In no world should he be gifted a Grand Final appearance based on what he has said today.
 

ferball

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He's not the first umpire who didn't pay a free cause he thought someone dived. He won't be the last. From what he thought he saw, Ziebell dived. He's admitted that he got that wrong & he should've paid a free kick. He's a good umpire and owning his mistakes is a good thing.
He shouldn't be thinking that in the first place.

FFS.

Another player hit him so hard that both players fell over. And he thinks someone dived.

I call bulls**t. He's covering his arse.
 

ferball

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I don't know why this isn't getting more traction.

Ray's basically come out and said "I don't pay free kicks if I think the player staged for it, even if it was there", even remarking that he got "a bit belligerent" in this specific example and let that affect his job.

That's absolutely not ok, and he shouldn't be umpiring if he is letting his emotions dictate whether or not a player "deserves" a free kick. Its all well and good to sit here at our keyboards and say it wouldn't have changed the result (because it wouldn't), but could you imagine if something like this happened in a final or other close game, and your team lost because Ray thought to himself that he didn't have to apply the rules to certain players because "im feeling stubborn today"? Its a f*cking farce!

The AFL should pull him for the rest of the year under the guise of "re-training". In no world should he be gifted a Grand Final appearance based on what he has said today.
Emotional biases change the way people perceive things. Ie they change the way a brain will interpret the information its senses pick up from the environment. If he approaches umpiring with that pre existing bias, the way he admitted he did, he's already failing at his job. He is looking for "dives" instead of at passages of play.

That's aside from the way he inserts himself into the narrative. He's the AFL's version of that NRL ref Harrigan.

He shouldn't have even made a comment on a footy show, a press release or something via the umps or afl at most. But its all about him so anything to stoke the ego.

As far as changing the result.... At that point in the game things were even. Instead of a shot on goal the ball goes down the other end and they goal. Then within a few minutes Hawkins drops the ball but gets paid the mark in front of goal. That's a potential 18 point turn around at a vital point in the game. Especially at that ground. Its so narrow that visiting players have to take risks thru the corridor to get back into the game and Geelong are drilled to take advantage of that. 19 points off the back of umps in a close game and s**thouse conditions is a massive gift. Almost as big a gift as the stadium itself.

Its a moot point now but its wrong to claim decisions like that have no influence on a game or on an outcome.

They certainly changed the outcome if you had a bet on Geelong to win that involved the 39 point margin. (And I didn't btw but I'm sure plenty of people did.)
 

romeohwho

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Think, as a rule, he’s a very good umpire.
Nonetheless he got the decision horribly wrong and his explanation was not good enough.
Will give him the benefit of the doubt based on his past good record-everyone makes errors, but needs to have a good, hard look at himself.
 

Ricky Vaughn

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Emotional biases change the way people perceive things. Ie they change the way a brain will interpret the information its senses pick up from the environment. If he approaches umpiring with that pre existing bias, the way he admitted he did, he's already failing at his job. He is looking for "dives" instead of at passages of play.

That's aside from the way he inserts himself into the narrative. He's the AFL's version of that NRL ref Harrigan.

He shouldn't have even made a comment on a footy show, a press release or something via the umps or afl at most. But its all about him so anything to stoke the ego.

As far as changing the result.... At that point in the game things were even. Instead of a shot on goal the ball goes down the other end and they goal. Then within a few minutes Hawkins drops the ball but gets paid the mark in front of goal. That's a potential 18 point turn around at a vital point in the game. Especially at that ground. Its so narrow that visiting players have to take risks thru the corridor to get back into the game and Geelong are drilled to take advantage of that. 19 points off the back of umps in a close game and s**thouse conditions is a massive gift. Almost as big a gift as the stadium itself.

Its a moot point now but its wrong to claim decisions like that have no influence on a game or on an outcome.

They certainly changed the outcome if you had a bet on Geelong to win that involved the 39 point margin. (And I didn't btw but I'm sure plenty of people did.)
You had more free kicks, and your only goal was from a very questionable free kick.

In fact, I’m bloody pi**ed off North got their free ride from the umps in Geelong again! 80 free kicks to 45 across our last three games at the venue.

It’s an absolute outrage!
 

Hojuman

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I've never seen a fan base so obsessed with umpiring. It's frankly embarrassing.


Read the thread. Not obsessed with the umpiring. Obsessed with the integrity of the game.
He blatantly made a non-decision because he felt " belligerent " ( his words ) against a player who was infringed against and who should have received a free kick.

The game breaks down if this happens.
 

ferball

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You had more free kicks, and your only goal was from a very questionable free kick.

In fact, I’m bloody pi**ed off North got their free ride from the umps in Geelong again! 80 free kicks to 45 across our last three games at the venue.

It’s an absolute outrage!
So that justifies a flog umpire letting his biases interfere with him doing his job properly then going on the radio to gloat about it and stoke his ego even more?
 

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