Autopsy 2021 Rd 10: 2 point loss to Fremantle

[Jeffers]

Should have not capitulated in the 3rd and been in a situation where we needed a hard kick for goal from 50m with 15 seconds left

/end thread.

 

[J_Moore]

Joycerama is half right, I thought Dawson was guilty of just slamming it on the boot out of the defensive 50 without looking a lot so a number of his disposals weren't overly productive.

You can easily look at all of his disposals on the AFL Live app.

He rarely hacked it long out of defence. There were a couple of occasions where he did it under pressure, but only one you’d call a bad kick.

 

[Kapers]

Joycerama is half right, I thought Dawson was guilty of just slamming it on the boot out of the defensive 50 without looking a lot so a number of his disposals weren't overly productive. However that's where I'd draw the line as I think the bigger issue is that ALL Swans players were doing that, so to single out Dawson for doing so is weird, and I also thought he worked his arse off to cover ground and get to every contest he possibly could, hence he was involved in everything and why so many of his disposals were under pressure.

What I felt we lacked was someone who could actually run the ball out and work through Freo's forward pressure. Our mids are good at going back and helping the defenders by driving it out with a bit of run and speed, but it would be even more effective if we actually had someone in the back half who could do this with a bit of consistency. Campbell looked the most likely type early in the season, and Lloyd did it well against Collingwood. Not seeing where else it can come from.

Shame that Ling isn't developing as intended.

Probably missed McInerney and Fox as well

 

[Kirkswan]

I read the first few comments and then gave up... so if I'm repeating other peoples comments, sorry...

We were travelling well until we lost Fox, then it took us almost a full quarter to adjust. This kind of thing happens with young teams.

The sky is not falling, we're doing okay, still will play finals...

Please leave all toys in the cot...

 

[zyzzbruh]

We in fact had, as usual, too many jumping for the spoil or mark.

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The problem was that none of them were jumping at the actual ball

 

[Joycerama]

You can easily look at all of his disposals on the AFL Live app.

He rarely hacked it long out of defence. There were a couple of occasions where he did it under pressure, but only one you’d call a bad kick.

I think Dawson is a terrific player and expectations are high, just thought he was less composed than usual when disposing of it. He is normally very reliable.

 

[Rhino5]

With all due respect, I find this to be a strange take on Rowbottom. On the one hand you acknowledge that he's small and not quite strong enough yet. But on the other you've seemingly put a ceiling on him based on physical limitations he has as a 20 year old whose at least 4/5kgs away from his ideal weight, averaging only 69% TOG, and playing with an injury.

Young players can develop you know...

Fair enough. It's not a big thing, just a reaction to some of the effusive praise about him on these threads (not re this game specifically). Can he really put on much additional size? I don't know. I do think he needs to if he's going to impact contests consistently.

More of an issue to me though is the disposal - he really is a pretty shaky kick. Another poster said his 20m passes go 50m in the air - I know they were joking but there's something to that. Most of the time like Parker he's hacking a kick quickly out of congestion so it's hard to be too critical but I certainly get a bit nervous when he's about to kick the ball.

 

[Bloods86]

Fair enough. It's not a big thing, just a reaction to some of the effusive praise about him on these threads (not re this game specifically). Can he really put on much additional size? I don't know. I do think he needs to if he's going to impact contests consistently.

More of an issue to me though is the disposal - he really is a pretty shaky kick. Another poster said his 20m passes go 50m in the air - I know they were joking but there's something to that. Most of the time like Parker he's hacking a kick quickly out of congestion so it's hard to be too critical but I certainly get a bit nervous when he's about to kick the ball.

I'll take Rowbottom with the ball over Parker or JPK any day, especially for field kicking (handballs in tight while being tackled is another thing).

 

[caesar88]

Fair enough. It's not a big thing, just a reaction to some of the effusive praise about him on these threads (not re this game specifically). Can he really put on much additional size? I don't know. I do think he needs to if he's going to impact contests consistently.

More of an issue to me though is the disposal - he really is a pretty shaky kick. Another poster said his 20m passes go 50m in the air - I know they were joking but there's something to that. Most of the time like Parker he's hacking a kick quickly out of congestion so it's hard to be too critical but I certainly get a bit nervous when he's about to kick the ball.

I think he is an above average kick for an inside mid. He used the ball superbly by hand and foot against Collingwood and barely garnered a mention on here anyway. But for the most part this year his kicks seem to be lacking penetration, which I'm going to chalk up to the fact he's not operating at 100%. I think he has hit plenty of targets by foot with some great kicks so far in his career to earn a little good faith there.

As for how much size he can put on, he is currently listed as 82kg. That's the same as Florent, who is 3cm shorter, and 1kg less than Warner, who is 5cm shorter. Compared to Rowbottom they are units. If you compare him to some of the other mids in the comp in his 186/187cm height range, they are a fair way ahead of Rowbottom's 82kg:

Wines - 98kg
Petracca - 97kg
Steele - 91kg
Martin - 91kg
Brayshaw - 91kg
Keays - 89kg
Taranto - 89kg
Oliver - 88kg
Hopper - 88kg
Guthrie - 87kg
Mills - 86kg
B. Smith - 86kg
Cerra - 86kg

He likely won't get above the 90kg mark as that's just not his build, but you can see how far he has to go. Not to mention his tank is still a few years away from where it needs to be. (His 69% TOG is third-lowest behind Campbell and Stephens.) So the effusive praise you speak of, I have to disagree. I think if anything he is underrated by this board and in general really as I think his work rate and talent belie a frame and a tank that's meant he's had no right to be as good as he has been in his career to date, yet people actually seem to be expecting more from him. He has as much upside as anyone on our list.

 

[Bloods86]

I think he is an above average kick for an inside mid. He used the ball superbly by hand and foot against Collingwood and barely garnered a mention on here anyway. But for the most part this year his kicks seem to be lacking penetration, which I'm going to chalk up to the fact he's not operating at 100%. I think he has hit plenty of targets by foot with some great kicks so far in his career to earn a little good faith there.

As for how much size he can put on, he is currently listed as 82kg. That's the same as Florent, who is 3cm shorter, and 1kg less than Warner, who is 5cm shorter. Compared to Rowbottom they are units. If you compare him to some of the other mids in the comp in his 186/187cm height range, they are a fair way ahead of Rowbottom's 82kg:

Wines - 98kg
Petracca - 97kg
Steele - 91kg
Martin - 91kg
Brayshaw - 91kg
Keays - 89kg
Taranto - 89kg
Oliver - 88kg
Hopper - 88kg
Guthrie - 87kg
Mills - 86kg
B. Smith - 86kg
Cerra - 86kg

He likely won't get above the 90kg mark as that's just not his build, but you can see how far he has to go. Not to mention his tank is still a few years away from where it needs to be. (His 69% TOG is third-lowest behind Campbell and Stephens.) So the effusive praise you speak of, I have to disagree. I think if anything he is underrated by this board and in general really as I think his work rate and talent belie a frame and a tank that's meant he's had no right to be as good as he has been in his career to date, yet people actually seem to be expecting more from him. He has as much upside as anyone on our list.

If he can get up to the Mills or Oliver mark, reckon he'll be alright. He'd be around the Lappin, Black, Lewis range (just to pick some dynasty mids) - so if he just puts on a few more kg, it won't be the deciding factor on how good he can be.

 

[caesar88]

If he can get up to the Mills or Oliver mark, reckon he'll be alright. He'd be around the Lappin, Black, Lewis range (just to pick some dynasty mids) - so if he just puts on a few more kg, it won't be the deciding factor on how good he can be.

It's not a matter of if, but when. I don't know a single AFL player who stayed at the same weight they were as a 20 year old third-year player throughout their whole career.

 

[bungee]

think you're wrong about warner, he's an asset ... unfortunately, right now i can't defend blakey anymore ... either he's got no sense of composure or he's lacking in smarts generally ... i get that he's also trying too hard every time he gets it but some of the stuff last night ...
not sure of the stats but i thought warner gave us something every time he had the ball, he's got amazing balance
and i think rowbottom and wicks are keepers, too ...

Wrong ? I was quoting stats, not an opinion. Several of our young boys wasted the ball in this game. Effective disposals : Warner & Rowbottom 7, Wicks 4, McLean 3. Efficiency : Rowbottom at 46.7%, Warner 58.3%, Wicks 57.1%, McLean 60%. Hayward and Blakey were also wasteful. Blakey and McLean at least did the 1 %ers. Geez, Clarke had 6 effective disposals going at 80% and he was on for less than half a game. Blakey and Rowbottom both had 4 clangers. Hayward and Warner had 3 each. Kennedy and Heenay also had 4 clangers but they had 28 and 24 disposals respectively, so in the grand scheme of things their contributions far outweighed any mistakes.

I think Warner's going to be a really good player but it wasn't a great game and he normally gives us more. Hayward, McLean, Wicks, Rowbottom, even Blakey have all showed they're capable of becoming really good players at some point in the future, but right now they're inconsistent and when a bunch of them are down at the same time our more experienced players are left to do the heavy lifting. None of that group of young players are walk up best 22, like say Heeney, McCartin or Mills. One or two of them might not make it longer term. Being able to play in a number of positions can be a positive, which is how Blakey is able to find a spot. How many other players have the speed for a wing, the smarts to play key position forward and can pinch hit in the ruck ? If Blakey can find consistency he may well end up the best of that group. Hayward has learned to play as a defensive forward, which adds a lot of value to his game. He has both height and speed. McLean needs to add more to his game than simply propping up the goal posts. He lacks versatility and gets too easily outmarked in general play. When the ball hits the deck he often struggles. Rowbottom is an inside mid, without the speed or the height to play elsewhere, so he needs to become consistently good at what he does. He also needs to learn to kick lower, faster passes instead of his customary floaters. Wicks plays as a high half forward so he needs to a) kick goals b) deliver inside 50 and c) tackle , pressure and lock the ball inside 50. Ideally he needs to be doing all 3 and when he does he's potent, but there are plenty of others who could do the same role. Warner needs to use his speed and constant movement to be dangerous around packs. He's a terrific burst player. One his big weapons is to burst from a centre clearance and bring the ball inside 50 or take the long shot. Last weekend I was disappointed to see him fluff an inside 50 when he was running balanced towards goal and had every right to take a shot from the 50. I'd like to see Clarke and Stephens getting more games. Both have good running ability and are good users of the ball. Guys like Amartey, Ling, Bell, Gould, O'Riordan, Ronke, Taylor, Gray should also get their chances. This is still a development year so we should be putting on pressure for spots. Logan, Gulden, Campbell are also still in the mix.

We're not lacking in talent and our best footy is enough to frighten any opposition or have any fan dreaming of glory. This game just goes to prove that we won't be a premiership threat until we can get consistently good performances from our young players. A couple of years in finals followed by a 2023 GF is more realistic.

 

[bungee]

I'll take Rowbottom with the ball over Parker or JPK any day, especially for field kicking (handballs in tight while being tackled is another thing).

Rowbottom kicks up and unders. He's one of worst users of the ball by foot in the AFl. He needs to practice low fast passes. Parker & Kennedy only kick wildly under huge pressure, otherwise they drill darts.

 

[bungee]

You can add Dawson and Stephens to that list. Just a few too many passengers last night. Hewett acquitted himself well as did Florent, Lloyd and Cunningham. Mills was great but switched off in q3. Buddy was solid. Umps were kind to him.

Dawson was one of our best. Stephens did enough to get another game

 

[bungee]

Totally agree with this. I'm so sick of people saying the umpiring is terrible or biased.

They are under constant scrutiny and are judged on sometimes one call or missed call at the end of a game. Let's all ignore the umpires and focus on the missed tackles and sprayed shots on goal that are the real reasons we lose games. Hold the players accountable, they are the ones being paid the big bucks.

For every missed call against us there's a soft call at another time that makes up for it. I firmly believe that I've the course of a season all those decisions balance out fairly evenly. (Cue the comments on 2016)

The umpiring was disgraceful as it usually is against the Swans. If that makes you sick tough t***ies. Grab a bucket

 

[bungee]

You can easily look at all of his disposals on the AFL Live app.

He rarely hacked it long out of defence. There were a couple of occasions where he did it under pressure, but only one you’d call a bad kick.

Dawson was one of our best. Kicking at 84% with 26 effective disposals (highest by a long way) and gaining 711m. 10 intercepts. 17 rebound 50s, 9 1%ers, 3 score involvements (from a defender). His 24 kicks were mostly long and penetrating.

Those criticising Dawson must have no idea how the game is played.

 

[Millky95]

Dawson was one of our best. Kicking at 84% with 26 effective disposals (highest by a long way) and gaining 711m. 10 intercepts. 17 rebound 50s, 9 1%ers, 3 score involvements (from a defender). His 24 kicks were mostly long and penetrating.

Those criticising Dawson must have no idea how the game is played.

Shame he didn't realise he could mark with both hands instead of having to punch the ball away

 

[bungee]

Soooo. You lost your job after advising Adelaide?

??

 

[bungee]

Shame he didn't realise he could mark with both hands instead of having to punch the ball away

Yeah that was a mistake. I didn't claim he was perfect but he was our number one attacking weapon. 17 rebound 50s is awesome

 

[bungee]

If he can get up to the Mills or Oliver mark, reckon he'll be alright. He'd be around the Lappin, Black, Lewis range (just to pick some dynasty mids) - so if he just puts on a few more kg, it won't be the deciding factor on how good he can be.

Rowbottom is a good player. Mills or Oliver ? No. Unfair to expect him to be anything more than a good solid player

 

[Arrr]

The umpiring was disgraceful as it usually is against the Swans. If that makes you sick tough t***ies. Grab a bucket

What biased fan of a sports team isn't going to say their team gets shafted by the umpires? Every team has calls missed that they think should be paid. So hypothetically let's say that all these calls are made by the umpires. Then there will be so much whinging about the umpires not letting the players play the game.

It's so easy to point at the umpires and say it's their fault. Why not blame the players for being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring. If they aren't good enough to win without the last minute call going their way then they don't deserve to win.

You are complaining about the umpiring against the Swans so go and look at what the post game from the dockers match thread is called. Every team thinks they are hard done by.

It's just a cop out against an easy target for people who can't admit their team wasn't good enough to win.

 

[bungee]

Yes Hewett should have gone to him but Rowie did not play on Fyfe very much. Only when Kennedy was on the bench. Kennedy was on Fyfe for most of the night. Kennedy was destroyed in the 3rd and the last half of the last. He simply could not keep up with Fyfe. Fyfe's 2nd and 3rd efforts left him 30 metres behind. He was stuffed.

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Kennedy so often has the job on the opposition's best midfielder, usually a beast. It's hard for anyone to go with a player like Fyfe for a whole game. The fact that he could go with him for half a game and still get so much of his own ball speaks volumes. We too often under-value Kennedy's contribution both in terms of how much attention opposition teams pay to curb his influence and how much we ask of him to curb their best.

No need to rest him. He'll be needed again this week.

 

[bungee]

What biased fan of a sports team isn't going to say their team gets shafted by the umpires? Every team has calls missed that they think should be paid. So hypothetically let's say that all these calls are made by the umpires. Then there will be so much whinging about the umpires not letting the players play the game.

It's so easy to point at the umpires and say it's their fault. Why not blame the players for being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring. If they aren't good enough to win without the last minute call going their way then they don't deserve to win.

You are complaining about the umpiring against the Swans so go and look at what the post game from the dockers match thread is called. Every team thinks they are hard done by.

It's just a cop out against an easy target for people who can't admit their team wasn't good enough to win.

"We should blame the players for being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring" "If they aren't good enough to win without the last minute call going their way then they don't deserve to win" Do you even realise how ridiculous that sounds ? So your proposing that Sydney have to win by a minimum of 10 goals or it doesn't count, just so the umpires can never be blamed.

"Hypothetically let's say that all these calls are made by the umpires" What do you mean by hypothetically ? Who exactly do you think makes the umpiring calls ? The tooth fairy with a whistle up her butt ?

How did your hyphothetical umpires go in the 2016 GF ? There was nothing hypothetical about Hanners being legged in a sliding tackle, because the replay shows him clearly being legged. He was legged so badly he couldn't run and it took years off the peak of his career. Ultimately it probably cost us the game after the umpires had the temerity to award the free against him. But you think we should blame him for "being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring". Should we also have been 20 goals up and "good enough to win without the last minute call going our way" ? Sorry pal, but a lot of GFs are close.

It's not like the mistakes happened on both sides in that game either. The "bravedogs" were just dropping the ball when tackled and throwing instead of handpassing. They did it all game but weren't pinged. We found ourselves "being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring" for just turning up, but in your book that's somehow our own fault, right ? It's our own fault for being a footy team 'cause turning up on a footy field is just what footy teams do.

Who or what gives you the right to tell Swans fans we can't bitch about umpiring ? If it genuinely makes you sick then I suggest you waddle off to the umpires thread. I'm sure they have one somewhere.

 

[Arrr]

"We should blame the players for being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring" "If they aren't good enough to win without the last minute call going their way then they don't deserve to win" Do you even realise how ridiculous that sounds ? So your proposing that Sydney have to win by a minimum of 10 goals or it doesn't count, just so the umpires can never be blamed.

"Hypothetically let's say that all these calls are made by the umpires" What do you mean by hypothetically ? Who exactly do you think makes the umpiring calls ? The tooth fairy with a whistle up her butt ?

How did your hyphothetical umpires go in the 2016 GF ? There was nothing hypothetical about Hanners being legged in a sliding tackle, because the replay shows him clearly being legged. He was legged so badly he couldn't run and it took years off the peak of his career. Ultimately it probably cost us the game after the umpires had the temerity to award the free against him. But you think we should blame him for "being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring". Should we also have been 20 goals up and "good enough to win without the last minute call going our way" ? Sorry pal, but a lot of GFs are close.

It's not like the mistakes happened on both sides in that game either. The "bravedogs" were just dropping the ball when tackled and throwing instead of handpassing. They did it all game but weren't pinged. We found ourselves "being in a position to be at the mercy of the umpiring" for just turning up, but in your book that's somehow our own fault, right ? It's our own fault for being a footy team 'cause turning up on a footy field is just what footy teams do.

Who or what gives you the right to tell Swans fans we can't b*tch about umpiring ? If it genuinely makes you sick then I suggest you waddle off to the umpires thread. I'm sure they have one somewhere.

What I meant by hypothetically let's say the umpires make all those calls is what if they blew the whistle at every single call that either side thinks deserves to be a few kick. The game would stop every 10 seconds.

I'm not going to defend the umpiring in the 2016 GF as that was clearly terrible.

What I do know is that we need umpires for the game to work and if all they cop is constant criticism for either not calling enough free kicks, or calling too many, or missing some, or not having the right angle to see others. Then who would want to be an umpire? We want as many umpires as possible so that we can get more competition and get the best ones possible umpiring at AFL level.

The more that we create a culture where we should bash the umpires every match the more unappealing we make umpiring.

 

[Bloods86]

Rowbottom is a good player. Mills or Oliver ? No. Unfair to expect him to be anything more than a good solid player

Talking about weight, not whether he'll be as good as them.