Autopsy Rd 11 Blues create a contest but fade in the last

[Stephene]

there's a well know index called the "umpire satisfaction index"...it starts at 0% and goes to 100%....I'd fathom a guess that on every weekend during the footy season 50% of supporters have an umpire satisfaction level of 0% and the other 50% of supporters are at 100% satisfaction level.....true

 

[murphster]

Hopefully the discussion turns to the real concerns/issues

As to why more than half our games under Teague have conceded massive point swings

Why do they happen, what do we do to combat it

For one we are in desperate need of some drive from halfback, in terms of metres gained we have Doc averaging 418.3 but most of that average came in the first 4-5 games where he was going at his usual 500+, he sits 9th in the AFL for metres gained, after that daylight I’m afraid especially in the back half.

Next Best:

Rank. / Name / Ave Mtrs Gained

74th ———Gibbons————296.6
92nd ———Murph—————273.5
93rd ———Walsh—————-272.9
95th————Ed——————-271.2
99th———-Simmo—————266.0 next best defender

But the biggest concern is SPS who has averaged a paltry 165.1 metres per game, has only gone above 200 3 times and has been under 110 4 times including a season low 77 from the weekend, those are some damning statistics for a small back/halfback and would be close to the worst in the AFL for that position and he isn’t even a lockdown defender, our KP defenders have him covered comfortably.

I know people will say but he uses it well, but even in that he is only AFL average for that position and he takes no ground from minimal possession, something needs to change and quickly, our most dire need imo, bring on Zac Williams or if not him someone Smith or Laird anyone who can use it and that takes ground.​

 

[murphster]

Or there are so many bad decisions the gap is too wide for any team to cover. I don't think I have seen as many poor decisions that directly impacted the scoreboard as I did on the weekend.

We were actually holding them comfortably for most of the 3rd Qtr, the moment the game changed from being on a knifes edge to them having momentum was when we drove the ball inside 50 on the right flank the ball came to ground and we harassed them relentlessly someone stuck a tackle and the West Coast player was gone and he dropped the ball out towards the boundary where there was a loose player, which of course should have been incorrect disposal but wasn’t paid, we then put on 3-4 smothers in a row but eventually they cleared it over the lefthand side and went up there end, after that non decision everything went against us for the last 6-7 minutes of the 3rd Qtr, the players if anything tried to hard to stem the momentum swing and nothing went right after that key moment.

Also just before and just after 1/2 time we should have had holding the ball/incorrect disposal frees that were ignored both within 15 metres of goal, this would have given us a much bigger margin to play with.

 

[Macca43]

For one we are in desperate need of some drive from halfback, in terms of metres gained we have Doc averaging 418.3 but most of that average came in the first 4-5 games where he was going at his usual 500+, he sits 9th in the AFL for metres gained, after that daylight I’m afraid especially in the back half.

Next Best:

Rank. / Name / Ave Mtrs Gained

74th ———Gibbons————296.6
92nd ———Murph—————273.5
93rd ———Walsh—————-272.9
95th————Ed——————-271.2
99th———-Simmo—————266.0 next best defender

But the biggest concern is SPS who has averaged a paltry 165.1 metres per game, has only gone above 200 3 times and has been under 110 4 times including a season low 77 from the weekend, those are some damning statistics for a small back/halfback and would be close to the worst in the AFL for that position and he isn’t even a lockdown defender, our KP defenders have him covered comfortably.

I know people will say but he uses it well, but even in that he is only AFL average for that position and he takes no ground from minimal possession, something needs to change and quickly, our most dire need imo, bring on Zac Williams or if not him someone Smith or Laird anyone who can use it and that takes ground.​

Newman averaged 466 last year

 

[Thrall]

To say they cheat does not do you any favours. They make mistakes and some yesterday were howlers. It did not cost us a win. We are not good enough yet. Take the advice offered - when local footy starts again, put your hand up and umpire. It is not an easy task.

Why would I put my hand up to umpire when i can get an easy grand or two per game i play? I don't evenm play anymore i Can't be bothered. I give you the tip though, I'd do a better job than the jokers who umpired our game against WCE.

 

[Thrall]

Saying that we got the rough end of the stick is fine...calling these umpires all sorts of names because of it will only cause those that may be great umpires to think "this just isn't worth it"...there is a reason there is less and less umpires going through the pathway, and the personal abuse and threats they cop on line and at matches when they aren't earning that much is one of the reasons why...there is a way to say it, as you have, and there is a way others have gone about it...

Following the NHL has been a real eye opener...they go the complete other way...they sometimes question decisions, but no-one really blames the refs...a team got knocked out of the playoffs last year because a ref missed a hand pass (which is illegal) in overtime which led directly to the team scoring a game winning goal...the debate centred around whether there ought be a 'review' system rather than just blaming the ref...that one decision knocked the team out of the final, and was clearly a bad 'non-call', but there was nowhere near some of the vitriol spouted by some on here towards the umps for this home and away game...

If you want the umpiring level to improve, calling them every name under the sun will only cause the pool of those wanting to become umpires to shrink, and the standard of umpiring to get lower and lower...

If our comments and bagging sub standard umpires causes guys and gals who aren't up to it and make shit decisions to quit I'm all for that.
In fact that is the perfect scenario

 

[Bluesome]

Why would I put my hand up to umpire when i can get an easy grand or two per game i play? I don't evenm play anymore i Can't be bothered. I give you the tip though, I'd do a better job than the jokers who umpired our game against WCE.

Put your money where your mouth is then...we'll see how you like being called a 'rat' or a 'cheat'...my mate who umpired the armatures got death threats cause he simply reported a bloke...who would want to be an umpire and go through the pathways when that rubbish is happening...

You want umpiring to improve? People like you need to stop personally attacking them (as opposed to simply questioning decisions)...trust me, they hear it, and it is the main reason the pool of umpires is getting shallower and shallower which in turn effects the standard of umpiring...

 

[Thrall]

Put your money where your mouth is then...we'll see how you like being called a 'rat' or a 'cheat'...my mate who umpired the armatures got death threats cause he simply reported a bloke...who would want to be an umpire and go through the pathways when that rubbish is happening...

You want umpiring to improve? People like you need to stop personally attacking them (as opposed to simply questioning decisions)...trust me, they hear it, and it is the main reason the pool of umpires is getting shallower and shallower which in turn effects the standard of umpiring...

Been called far worse batting, or fielding on the boundary at an away game mate.......
The performance of that umpire warranted all the negative feedback that has come his way this week.

Comparing me to a "professional umpire" is always completely out of kilter. I can say one thing though, I AM CONFIDENT IN MY ABILITY TO BE CONSISTENT IN MY DECISION MAKING.

 

[Bluesome]

Been called far worse batting, or fielding on the boundary at an away game mate.......
The performance of that umpire warranted all the negative feedback that has come his way this week.

Comparing me to a "professional umpire" is always completely out of kilter. I can say one thing though, I AM CONFIDENT IN MY ABILITY TO BE CONSISTENT IN MY DECISION MAKING.

"negative feedback" and the rubbish you spouted are not even in the same ball park...and you would see if you umpired a game that even if you got every decision correct you will still cop a crap load of disgraceful abuse...doesn't even compare to the type of abuse you cop as a player...I've copped that too don't worry...difference is your teammates have your back on field...

They are not 'professional' by the way...

 

[Coops93]

For one we are in desperate need of some drive from halfback, in terms of metres gained we have Doc averaging 418.3 but most of that average came in the first 4-5 games where he was going at his usual 500+, he sits 9th in the AFL for metres gained, after that daylight I’m afraid especially in the back half.

Next Best:

Rank. / Name / Ave Mtrs Gained

74th ———Gibbons————296.6
92nd ———Murph—————273.5
93rd ———Walsh—————-272.9
95th————Ed——————-271.2
99th———-Simmo—————266.0 next best defender

But the biggest concern is SPS who has averaged a paltry 165.1 metres per game, has only gone above 200 3 times and has been under 110 4 times including a season low 77 from the weekend, those are some damning statistics for a small back/halfback and would be close to the worst in the AFL for that position and he isn’t even a lockdown defender, our KP defenders have him covered comfortably.

I know people will say but he uses it well, but even in that he is only AFL average for that position and he takes no ground from minimal possession, something needs to change and quickly, our most dire need imo, bring on Zac Williams or if not him someone Smith or Laird anyone who can use it and that takes ground.​

Interesting statistics, I'm surprised Simmo is so low, but imo perhaps for the first time he is showing his age so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

It's a pretty damning statistic but having said that I'm really not surprised by it. I can't think of anyone who really drives the ball forward with purpose aside from Doc, and even then (as you say) since round ~5 he's been really below his best in that sense.

 

[Thrall]

"negative feedback" and the rubbish you spouted are not even in the same ball park...and you would see if you umpired a game that even if you got every decision correct you will still cop a crap load of disgraceful abuse...doesn't even compare to the type of abuse you cop as a player...I've copped that too don't worry...difference is your teammates have your back on field...

They are not 'professional' by the way...

I stand by my comments. He is either a cheat, or he is incompetent. We are talking about an individual who over a space of 2 hours, consistently interpreted decisions differently based upon what jumper they were wearing. End of story, Nathan Williamson is either a cheat or incompetent.

Refute the above the statement if you wish

 

[AlecDuncan]

Is anyone still outraged we lost to a potential grand finalist with three of our preferred key forwards missing and probably our most creative player missing after half-time?

 

[Arr0w]

Is anyone still outraged we lost to a potential grand finalist with three of our preferred key forwards missing and probably our most creative player missing after half-time?

No, but people need an excuse, hence the umpire bashing continues

Can't wait for the next game to start

This thread has become pathetic

 

[Bluesome]

No, but people need an excuse, hence the umpire bashing continues

Can't wait for the next game to start

This thread has become pathetic

Agree, and I am obviously partly responsible for that...

would much rather be talking about what our boys did well/not so well rather than extraneous factors...

will be my last post on that other issue...

 

[mochacinolatte]

Is anyone still outraged we lost to a potential grand finalist with three of our preferred key forwards missing and probably our most creative player missing after half-time?

No not really, the rebuild timeline is progressing how we should be travelling.
2016 - Rebuild.
2017 - Rebuild.
2018 - Rebuild.
2019 - See improvement from playing group (1st half of the year was a real concern, 2nd half is what I expected).
2020 - Same as per 2020 except that we losing most games that are 50/50.
2021 - I expect we should making a yelp in the top 8.

I guess my concern is that players are fading in the 2nd half. What is the reasoning behind this? Just feels like we lack fitness and need 1 more preseason to play a 4qtrgame.

Looking at the list not suprised that some of the 22 players may still be unfit especially the engine room. Matt Kennedy/Will Setterfield seem to fade as the game go on. Quite understanble as this it their first and 2nd full pre-season. I expect these 2 to step up next year.

Sam Docherty doesn't have the same booming penetration in AA year, which is understanable since this is the first year after 2 knee-recos.

You can see why Tom Williamson is selected each week for his dash and carry, needs to clean up his footwork still.

SPS - is a oddity, I still don't know where his most effective position?

Losing Jack Martin at half time didn't help as he probably one of our best ball users.

No, but people need an excuse, hence the umpire bashing continues

Can't wait for the next game to start

This thread has become pathetic

So the people on the forum aren't allowed to talk both the game and umpiring decision?

The umpiring in the game was simply bad, as well as other games. Would you allow this type of umpiring decision occur in the GF especially the HTB against SPS? Absolutely not. The AFL needs to address the HTB rule cause its confusing the players/coaches and spectators.

 

[Thrall]

No, but people need an excuse, hence the umpire bashing continues

Can't wait for the next game to start

This thread has become pathetic

people are entitled to discuss whatever they like in these threads mate

 

[katmanblue]

I love it when people finger point away from home. Always someone's fault

Umpires/AFL are cheats

Decisions where the opposition gain goals( no mention when we benefit)

We spank the dogs, while being -8 in the count. Cats have only won 2 free kick counts, yet are in the eight

I have seen and heard these supporters up close, truly staggering

If we can't vent about umpires on a football forum, where can we?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Yeh mate, I'm sure that's the way to handle it...for such a 'billion dollar industries' these blokes are part-time and not professional...many earn under $60,000 a year for all this abuse everyone throws at them...being called 'rats' and 'cheats' by armchair heroes like you...disagree with the decisions all you want but the personal attacks and conspiracy theories are utter crap...

And by the way, no-one knows what that 50 was paid for, what was said to the ump etc...so yeh, you can't say that was wrong...

Players need to take a leaf out of Plow's book...clearly disagreed with the decision, decided just to get on with things...fans could probably learn a bit from him as well..

No. Goal umpires get $60k. Field umpires get much more.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

No not really, the rebuild timeline is progressing how we should be travelling.
2016 - Rebuild.
2017 - Rebuild.
2018 - Rebuild.
2019 - See improvement from playing group (1st half of the year was a real concern, 2nd half is what I expected).
2020 - Same as per 2020 except that we losing most games that are 50/50.
2021 - I expect we should making a yelp in the top 8.

I guess my concern is that players are fading in the 2nd half. What is the reasoning behind this? Just feels like we lack fitness and need 1 more preseason to play a 4qtrgame.

Looking at the list not suprised that some of the 22 players may still be unfit especially the engine room. Matt Kennedy/Will Setterfield seem to fade as the game go on. Quite understanble as this it their first and 2nd full pre-season. I expect these 2 to step up next year.

Sam Docherty doesn't have the same booming penetration in AA year, which is understanable since this is the first year after 2 knee-recos.

You can see why Tom Williamson is selected each week for his dash and carry, needs to clean up his footwork still.

SPS - is a oddity, I still don't know where his most effective position?

Losing Jack Martin at half time didn't help as he probably one of our best ball users.



So the people on the forum aren't allowed to talk both the game and umpiring decision?

The umpiring in the game was simply bad, as well as other games. Would you allow this type of umpiring decision occur in the GF especially the HTB against SPS? Absolutely not. The AFL needs to address the HTB rule cause its confusing the players/coaches and spectators.

Talk about it? Looks like it's the only analysis

 

[Arr0w]

people are entitled to discuss whatever they like in these threads mate

Absolutely champ

 

[Arr0w]

If we can't vent about umpires on a football forum, where can we?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

The umpire thread?

Any chance we can discuss where else we can improve?

 

[Aphrodite]

The umpire thread?

Any chance we can discuss where else we can improve?

Pretty sure there is an appropriate thread for that discussion.

This happens to be an autopsy thread.

 

[Arr0w]

So an autopsy thread is dedicated to umpire bashing rather than:

Player positioning, form, tactics, gameplan etc, etc?

IE, this particular game?

 

[Thrall]

So an autopsy thread is dedicated to umpire bashing rather than:

Player positioning, form, tactics, gameplan etc, etc?

IE, this particular game?

you aren't the arbiter of what people want to discuss. Clearly it was a massive issue, and went a long way to determining the outcome of the game. It's been a pretty well covered topic and was big in the media too.

 

[Arr0w]

you aren't the arbiter of what people want to discuss. Clearly it was a massive issue, and went a long way to determining the outcome of the game. It's been a pretty well covered topic and was big in the media too.

So the other 13 odd occasions a Teague lead side was on the receiving end of a massive point swing, was due to umpires as well?

Do you think that maybe that is a priority?

I can just see the weekly review/autopsy Teague has with the players, this week

"Right fellas, not going to discuss what we did wrong, to yet again have a 42 point point swing against us, we are going to watch a video of what I believe were ****ed decisions by the umpires"

"Okay, that's done, out on the track fellas"