Autopsy Rd 11 Blues create a contest but fade in the last

[mochacinolatte]

So the other 13 odd occasions a Teague lead side was on the receiving end of a massive point swing, was due to umpires as well?

Do you think that maybe that is a priority?

I can just see the weekly review/autopsy Teague has with the players, this week

"Right fellas, not going to discuss what we did wrong, to yet again have a 42 point point swing against us, we are going to watch a video of what I believe were f’ed decisions by the umpires"

"Okay, that's done, out on the track fellas"

What is your opinion on the massive point swing then? How about divert the conversation instead of focusing on what people want to talk about.

 

[SurreyBlue]

So the other 13 odd occasions a Teague lead side was on the receiving end of a massive point swing, was due to umpires as well?

Do you think that maybe that is a priority?

I can just see the weekly review/autopsy Teague has with the players, this week

"Right fellas, not going to discuss what we did wrong, to yet again have a 42 point point swing against us, we are going to watch a video of what I believe were f’ed decisions by the umpires"

"Okay, that's done, out on the track fellas"

Umpiring in this game directly made a difference to the result.
Now you can jump up and down as many times as you like, you can argue with as many individuals as you like, you can even try to make people feel guilty for discussing an issue that you don't like, but the majority fans, media, etc. will tell you and have proven multiple times that the point made in the 1st sentence is correct.
The umpiring affected the result of this game. Please move on.

 

[Arr0w]

What is your opinion on the massive point swing then? How about divert the conversation instead of focusing on what people want to talk about.

I have a number of times, best I stay out of this thread and let the herd run

 

[Arr0w]

Umpiring in this game directly made a difference to the result.
Now you can jump up and down as many times as you like, you can argue with as many individuals as you like, you can even try to make people feel guilty for discussing an issue that you don't like, but the majority fans, media, etc. will tell you and have proven multiple times that the point made in the 1st sentence is correct.
The umpiring affected the result of this game. Please move on.

So now I need to move on because I share a different view?

If you want to throw the toys, rather than discussing the most prevalent situation, for the last 12 months, knock yourself out

Next loss it will be the whipping boys again, back to umpires and so on

Go on, keep focusing on the umpires, make it a strokefest

 

[mochacinolatte]

The game was lost in a couple of crucial coaching errors

Ed starting on Shuey rather than Kelly, at least he made that change and played a part to swing the game our way. Why that was relaxed after half time is perplexing

Stated before the game, give TDK back half of each qtr as a minimum. When Pitto went down, TDK held his own and was another reason for us kicking away in the 2nd. 3rd qtr, not one single ruck involvement for TDK

Tempo footy in the first half, made us more balanced, allowed us to set defensively and win the territory battle, as well as the scoreboard. Non existent in the 2nd half

Martin going down hurt

No imagination in adding speed, run and carry through the backline, no imagination in releasing Doc from being nuffified. You just can't sit on the fence as a coach

I have a number of times, best I stay out of this thread and let the herd run

Most of your post is arguing with posters about the umpiring. Anyways.

1. Ed tagging Shuey vs Kelly is debatle, both damaging midfielders. Thought Kelly was dominate in the first half and Shuey in the second. Would of been better to have head to head roles. Ed vs Shuey and Setterfield vs Kelly.

2. Pretty sure TDK was gassed when the momentum swung mid-way through the 3rd, Teague started TDK in the ruck in the 4th quarter but by then TDK looked gas. Needs another 2 pre-season before he can do this full time. At least we know TDK can compete in the ruck.

3. Dom Sheed decided to show-up and play. Who was accountable for Dom Sheed? Thought the tackling pressure was great in the their f50 and our d50. Didn't get reward for those efforts.

4. Agreed, maybe Martin could of been the difference.

5. How do you even release doc? Move him to the wing? Then who goes replace Doc in the back 6?

Though the most outlinging issue is the fitness. Setters/Kennedy/Williamson/TDK looked gassed by the end of it.

If anything I would of put Kennedy as a the 3rd tall, moved Gibbons/Fisher into the guts instead of Murphy.

 

[Arr0w]

Most of your post is arguing with posters about the umpiring. Anyways.

1. Ed tagging Shuey vs Kelly is debatle, both damaging midfielders. Thought Kelly was dominate in the first half and Shuey in the second. Would of been better to have head to head roles. Ed vs Shuey and Setterfield vs Kelly.

2. Pretty sure TDK was gassed when the momentum swung mid-way through the 3rd, Teague started TDK in the ruck in the 4th quarter but by then TDK looked gas. Needs another 2 pre-season before he can do this full time. At least we know TDK can compete in the ruck.

3. Dom Sheed decided to show-up and play. Who was accountable for Dom Sheed? Thought the tackling pressure was great in the their f50 and our d50. Didn't get reward for those efforts.

4. Agreed, maybe Martin could of been the difference.

5. How do you even release doc? Move him to the wing? Then who goes replace Doc in the back 6?

Though the most outlinging issue is the fitness. Setters/Kennedy/Williamson/TDK looked gassed by the end of it.

If anything I would of put Kennedy as a the 3rd tall, moved Gibbons/Fisher into the guts instead of Murphy.

See how many items are relevant?

What about Teague's gameplan and tactics for the game, what worked, what didn't

 

[SurreyBlue]

So now I need to move on because I share a different view?

If you want to throw the toys, rather than discussing the most prevalent situation, for the last 12 months, knock yourself out

Next loss it will be the whipping boys again, back to umpires and so on

Go on, keep focusing on the umpires, make it a strokefest

I think you’ll find I’ve already addressed the key issue with our loses (reminder below) and certainly not throwing any toys out, but you do like to carry on a bit......

Don't try and put words in my mouth - 'I never directly blamed the umpires for us losing'.
We have an issue were we go to water or lose concentration in games and let he opposition kick easy multiple successive goals - that is the issue that needs immediate addressing, but I do however expect unbiased, impartial, balanced decision making and none of these 3 are evident in most of our games this year.
Again, there are so many decisions I can raise after this game but can anyone explain to me what the 50 meters was for against SpS?

 

[Arr0w]

I think you’ll find I’ve already addressed the key issue with our loses (reminder below) and certainly not throwing any toys out, but you do like to carry on a bit......

That it?

The one post you are suggesting, is an analysis of the game, the majority of it again blames the umpire?

Way too in depth for me

 

[Macca43]

So the other 13 odd occasions a Teague lead side was on the receiving end of a massive point swing, was due to umpires as well?

Do you think that maybe that is a priority?

I can just see the weekly review/autopsy Teague has with the players, this week

"Right fellas, not going to discuss what we did wrong, to yet again have a 42 point point swing against us, we are going to watch a video of what I believe were f’ed decisions by the umpires"

"Okay, that's done, out on the track fellas"

Two things can be true simultaneously.

 

[Bluesome]

Most of your post is arguing with posters about the umpiring. Anyways.

1. Ed tagging Shuey vs Kelly is debatle, both damaging midfielders. Thought Kelly was dominate in the first half and Shuey in the second. Would of been better to have head to head roles. Ed vs Shuey and Setterfield vs Kelly.

2. Pretty sure TDK was gassed when the momentum swung mid-way through the 3rd, Teague started TDK in the ruck in the 4th quarter but by then TDK looked gas. Needs another 2 pre-season before he can do this full time. At least we know TDK can compete in the ruck.

3. Dom Sheed decided to show-up and play. Who was accountable for Dom Sheed? Thought the tackling pressure was great in the their f50 and our d50. Didn't get reward for those efforts.

4. Agreed, maybe Martin could of been the difference.

5. How do you even release doc? Move him to the wing? Then who goes replace Doc in the back 6?

Though the most outlinging issue is the fitness. Setters/Kennedy/Williamson/TDK looked gassed by the end of it.

If anything I would of put Kennedy as a the 3rd tall, moved Gibbons/Fisher into the guts instead of Murphy.

This is the analysis the board should be focused on. Kudos.

I think you are right re: TDK...I was frustrated when Pitto came back into the ruck in the 3rd, though on reflection (noting particularly the 4th quarter drop off from TDK) it was probably the right call, particularly with his injury history...

Unfortunately with Setters going head to head with Kelly, Kelly was a half a step quicker in his reaction times and just got the jump on him at a couple of stoppages...I reckon Shuey was the more 'natural' match up for Ed and should have maintained that...

Yes - Sheed was left far too unaccountable, but if it wasn't Sheed it was two or three other Eagles players who were also left free on the outside...was a raffle...not sure how that breakdown occurred...

I would look at changing Doc up for brief periods if he isn't getting into the game...yes, put him to a wing, even get him running up the ground then back down to try to cause confusion for the oppo as to who the spare is...if we can get Doc as the true spare like the Essendon game he is such a weapon...we see forwards run up the ground then back again to try to lose their opponents, if Doc is being tagged no reason he shouldn't try the same (maybe he is, can't tell 100% from the TV).

Unfortunately I don't think there is any 'quick fix' for this group...just need more time playing together and a bit more midfield experience...they will learn to not have those momentary lapses...it is a learning thing...we adapted to beating those slow starts, we will soon adapt to being able to play our way for longer...still need a bit more patience with them...

 

[Gethelred]

If our comments and bagging sub standard umpires causes guys and gals who aren't up to it and make sh*t decisions to quit I'm all for that.
In fact that is the perfect scenario

Right up until you realise that by doing this you further dilute the amount of umpires, and the games themselves cannot be held without them.

You're not an idiot, but this is an idiotic statement.

 

[Thrall]

Right up until you realise that by doing this you further dilute the amount of umpires, and the games themselves cannot be held without them.

You're not an idiot, but this is an idiotic statement.

Good! I only want the best and brightest who by natural selection make the correct decisions.

I'd love to see ex players doing it

 

[FlowersByIrene]

As I said - "There isn't an anti Carlton agenda and the umpires aren't biased but clearly there were some absolute shockers that had a significant impact on the result. Denying this is as much folly as believing their is a conspiracy against us."

Says you

 

[sosos]

I can talk both.

No conspiracy. But appalling and game changing decisions were made by the umpires.

The one that made me really mad was the free we actually received and the wc player points aggressively at the umpire. Not a chance it wasn't seen but we should have got a 50m for a shot close to goal.

Tactics have been pointed out already...the tdk decision, the lack of a plan b, the tagging mix up, the lack of run from sps, not mixing up the midfield with Fisher, Gibbons, or Walsh. Appreciate the insight of others who pointed out the slow response to the Natanui/Yeo moves in ruck contests.

Lastly, if Cripps isn't fit, don't pick him! The C against his name is irrelevant if he can't contribute enough.

 

[Gethelred]

Good! I only want the best and brightest who by natural selection make the correct decisions.

I'd love to see ex players doing it

Why would they? You've said this:

Why would I put my hand up to umpire when i can get an easy grand or two per game i play?

... earlier in this very thread.

You've played at a decent level, you have utterly zero interest in being an umpire. Why would other people if you won't?

 

[sosos]

So. Team is 4 and 6. 33% success rate.
Apologies for the brain dump but in no particular order:

1. We've got a kpp as a midfield coach and a midfielder as our forwards coach. It's bizarre when you think about it. And we have one of the 21st century's greatest mids.... as a development coach.

2. We've got a green horn head coach with no senior mentor.

3. We've got a selection committee who constantly make weird choices.

4. We carry players. Murphy can't tackle; Doch out of form; Cripps injured; tdk, setters and Kennedy trying to build tanks and finding their spots; Gibbons and Sps played out of position; Betts and Simpson have both lost pace; some recycled place holders like Newnes; Williamson finding his feet after injuries ravaged his prime development years; Ed Curnow can't kick; Jones decision making; pit outclassed...

5. Injuries. Don't know why but I really don't remember a time when we haven't had a season obliterated by critical injuries. And the preseasons follow a similar pattern. Every year we're flying until about January and the first of many start to drop.

6. Development. Walsh the shining exception but other teams seem to bring newbies into their systems seamlessly while ours take years to find their feet.

7. We've changed head coaches a bazillion times this century. Turned over dozens of players. Theres more game plans than hot dinners in the players heads. Must be very confusing.

8. We've recruited like balls. For years. Until Sos started to right the ship. And then we sacked him before he'd finished.

Sadly, I feel like I could keep going here. So many issues. But perspective:

We have just lost, by only a few goals to the premiership favourites with some of the worst umpiring I have ever witnessed, on their home deck. We've won 4 games this year and could have won another three with some luck. Our last coach barely won 4 games in an entire two years

Give us a shake up in the assistant coaches, a good run with injuries, move some older soldiers on, and bring some young guns in, learn to play the game plan, get a better run from the umpires.....

Imagine where we're going to be soon?

 

[Thrall]

Why would they? You've said this:


... earlier in this very thread.

You've played at a decent level, you have utterly zero interest in being an umpire. Why would other people if you won't?

Simple, I am educated and professionally skilled. Ex fringe AFL, SANFL, and VFL players without the same opportunities as me would be interested.
Jordan Bannister and Mark Fraser as an example.

It's an easy 100k per year for 6 months work

 

[Manhattanite]

So. Team is 4 and 6. 33% success rate.

Are either of your parents a Collingwood fan?

 

[Gethelred]

Simple, I am educated and professionally skilled. Ex fringe AFL, SANFL, and VFL players without the same opportunities as me would be interested.
Jordan Bannister and Mark Fraser as an example.

It's an easy 100k per year for 6 months work

They've done it in the past, back when the AFL protected them; when people of the esteem of James Hird before his fall from grace was subjected to sensitivity training and a fine for criticising Scott McLaren publicly. Now? The AFL does not protect them from criticism, the fans treat them with contempt, and they are near constantly criticized for their game.

I ask you again, why would they even be interested? There's less stressful ways to earn 100k, most of which don't involve you being called a cheat and/or getting threatened with physical violence. Why choose to make a career out of being held in the contempt by the society around you?

 

[Thrall]

They've done it in the past, back when the AFL protected them; when people of the esteem of James Hird before his fall from grace was subjected to sensitivity training and a fine for criticising Scott McLaren publicly. Now? The AFL does not protect them from criticism, the fans treat them with contempt, and they are near constantly criticized for their game.

I ask you again, why would they even be interested? There's less stressful ways to earn 100k, most of which don't involve you being called a cheat and/or getting threatened with physical violence. Why choose to make a career out of being held in the contempt by the society around you?

Anyone who does a job especially in the public eye, with so much riding on it, needs to be able to be consistent with their decision making. Nathan Williamson spent 2 hours paying things differently based upon what jumper they were wearing. He deserves the criticism and contempt that comes his way.

Again, he is either incompetent or a cheat.

 

[Gethelred]

Anyone who does a job especially in the public eye, with so much riding on it, needs to be able to be consistent with their decision making. Nathan Williamson spent 2 hours paying things differently based upon what jumper they were wearing. He deserves the criticism and contempt that comes his way.

Again, he is either incompetent or a cheat.

... which is involved with what I said how, precisely? I'm not defending Nathan Williamson, nor have I mentioned him in this exchange. I can see why you would like it to be; it allows you to go on the attack, instead of defending your own views.

No-one can stop you behaving as you choose. Your problem is, how do you hold the opinions and express these opinions without actively reducing the incentive to become an umpire? Your attitude serves as a disincentive for anyone who might see a career in becoming an umpire, or anyone considering taking it up in their spare time. It's work on top of work, it's thankless, and at the end of it if someone's career is controlled by a person like you there's no security in it. No thanks.

Fast forward to 2025, and there's 5 umpires in the country. That's an awful lot of footy being played without umps.

 

[Thrall]

... which is involved with what I said how, precisely? I'm not defending Nathan Williamson, nor have I mentioned him in this exchange. I can see why you would like it to be; it allows you to go on the attack, instead of defending your own views.

No-one can stop you behaving as you choose. Your problem is, how do you hold the opinions and express these opinions without actively reducing the incentive to become an umpire? Your attitude serves as a disincentive for anyone who might see a career in becoming an umpire, or anyone considering taking it up in their spare time. It's work on top of work, it's thankless, and at the end of it if someone's career is controlled by a person like you there's no security in it. No thanks.

Fast forward to 2025, and there's 5 umpires in the country. That's an awful lot of footy being played without umps.

I can't even fathom why anyone would be sticking up for umpires especially in this autopsy thread about the game we got reamed in.....

 

[Gethelred]

I can't even fathom why anyone would be sticking up for umpires especially in this autopsy thread about the game we got reamed in.....

I get that.

But at the end of it, I follow my club and the sport. Without umpires, there is no club and no sport.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I

Is anyone still outraged we lost to a potential grand finalist with three of our preferred key forwards missing and probably our most creative player missing after half-time?

think we're the best side in the competition... so yes.

Outraged whenever we lose.

 

[katmanblue]

There's less stressful ways to earn 100k

Care to share? I'd definitely be interested in a 100k side gig.

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