Game Day Rd 12, 2013 - Fremantle v Brisbane

[Harris Specter]

Not bad being 8.5 and 2 after missing your two best players (Pav and Sandi) all year, your second best ruckmen (Griffin) and your best small forward (Walters). Think Freo are better than an "okay team" if they are winning games with those outs.

Quality of game had a lot to do with the usual "bye hangover" and also competing against a team that was once again playing "flood footy".

Not sure if you could accurately suggest that one coach "absolutely destroyed" the other when your team loses by 40 points and is held to 6 goals.

Never really rated Dockers this year, and today showed why. An undermanned Brisbane with 4 key players recovering from injuries, not to mention missing our best defender and forward, and yet Fremantle couldn't put the Lions away until the last quarter where most of the goals were in junk-time after poor kicks by fatigued players.

Fremantle played more flood footy than Brisbane today, trying to get a couple of men at the back everytime. It was quite boring to watch how much they still resort to the defensive game plan while Brisbane were doing all they could to counter-act it.

Of course, you look to the final margin and the score. Care to mention the number of behinds as well? We missed a number of relatively easy shots, so I'm not sure you could say our team was 'held' to 6 goals when really, it was our own bad kicking that let us down.

 

[growler]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-15/brisbane-lions-postmatch-r12-2013

Not Vossys idea to sub Simon.

 

[Spoken4]

Never really rated Dockers this year, and today showed why. An undermanned Brisbane with 4 key players recovering from injuries, not to mention missing our best defender and forward, and yet Fremantle couldn't put the Lions away until the last quarter where most of the goals were in junk-time after poor kicks by fatigued players.

Fremantle played more flood footy than Brisbane today, trying to get a couple of men at the back everytime. It was quite boring to watch how much they still resort to the defensive game plan while Brisbane were doing all they could to counter-act it.

Of course, you look to the final margin and the score. Care to mention the number of behinds as well? We missed a number of relatively easy shots, so I'm not sure you could say our team was 'held' to 6 goals when really, it was our own bad kicking that let us down.

26 scoring shots to 16. Actually makes the result look worse.

Agree that you were undermanned and had a few underdone players. But Freo has been undermanned all year and has played with a make-shift forward line missing Pavlich (who kicked 55 goals in the last 13 games of 2012) and Walters. And Sandilands is also a pretty handy player to have missing all year.

 

[Dylan12]

 

[Betty Noir]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-15/brisbane-lions-postmatch-r12-2013

Not Vossys idea to sub Simon.

Thank god for the voice of reason...

 

[Triple R]

A few notes from the game:

Black - He needed to be subbed, Crowley was taking him forward and I can't count the amount of times Crowley got free in the forward line or had Black yelling at defenders to take drop off on Crowley and therefore allowing an extra forward to get clear. His powers were weak this week, I hope he doesn't get exposed for the most of the year because it would sour a great career.

Golby - Was really working hard all day, just needs that extra bit of polish and he could be elite for us.

Hanley - Better than last week but still well below his best.

Rich - set up as the loose man in defence at the first bounce but De Boer went to him and stayed there for the rest of the day. Decent return and I was happy to see him behind the ball helping out in the play at half back. He went down after a heavy hit and it looked bad but he got up and kept going but was a bit quieter after that. He'll be better for the run.

Zorko - Really struggling with his hips, not getting involved enough and he just isn't his usual energetic self. Carry something and maybe he is due for a rest.

Mayes - Have been wanting to see him live since day 1 and finally got the chance - he is just as intelligent as he seems on the TV. You couldn't expect anything better from a player of his age. He missed a couple of tackles but once he gets some strength he will be ripping blokes and teams apart. Smart kicks and creative handballs all day.

Lester - Looks to have gained the confidence in general play, he needs more of it but today he showed what he can do when he puts the foot down and takes off. He was almost unstoppable when he got the ball. His kicking to start was awful, I think he missed the first 3 targets by foot and the next he didn't take the chance and bombed it long. Really good application, great speed and strength. He just needs to work on his short kicking.

Harwood - Not sure why some are calling for him to be dropped, he was great today and followed up from last week. Didn't get the straight run from the backline from him, much more lateral but still had effect and did well on his opponent. A keeper, no need for him to run around in the reserves.

Rocky - busted a gut to get the ball today. He takes these 150 metre dog leg leads to get the ball and I think playing him forward for too long ruins the impact he can make at the contest further up the field.

Reddo - Tried really hard all day and was great in most passages of play but made some critical errors that really costs us. Was exposed by Mundy in the 3rd quarter, didn't run the other way and it costs us. Otherwise he was good.

Adcock - Did his job and showed that aggression that we all know. He had a poor forward 50 entry and I think it was the only 1. He needs to be played away from the defensive unit and perhaps played as our tagger because of the poor output we are getting from Raines.

Raines - Leave Harwood, Yeo, Doc and perhaps Golby down back and push Adcock to the tagging role because Raines just isn't capable of hurting the opposition offensively and he isn't really stopping his man. Has been beaten the last two weeks really well, maybe suck it and see next week but I don't think he really provides what we need for this team going forward. Golby and Adcock could do his role and provide something more offensively. He has the credits in the bank and perhaps that is why he is allowed to prove himself again but I'd prefer his omission.

Patfull - An absolute pleasure to watch him go about his defensive duties, cannot wait to have Joel, Sauce and Clarke back together next weekend. Top effort.

Bewick - We really rely on this guy to kick goals for us and to present. He did present but not enough and he missed some tough chances when we needed them. Some of his mistakes were comical. He and McGrath need to learn how to work together better, leave McGrath deeper and have Bewick further afield. Need more from him, ok game.

McGrath - Angry old man most of the time but he is the smartest forward we have. I hope he plays his career out down forward, not just because of our plethora of small back but he is a goal kicker and makes the side better. Good game, he seems a bit lazy sometimes but that has been there since day 1.

Clarke - A little more confidence in himself and he will be killing blokes week in week out. He needs confidence in his kicking and general play but there is so much there and so much to work with. He is going to be a monster.

Staker - Made some critical errors 4-5 by my last count. Really needs to improve, I know he has been out for a long time but we need him to improve and we will improve.

Lewie - Has anyone got any potential business investments that we can throw at Lewie to keep him around? Just enormous for us again. Just makes you wonder where Longer is to play...

Yeo - didn't get a heap of it but he is fantastic defensively. Can someone explain why people think he should be dropped every week? He does his job defensively and it seems to be the direction from the coaches for his development this year and when he sees the opportunity to attack he will. It is very much like Golby's first few years and that worked exceptionally well, being told to beat your man by defending.

McKeever - No surprise to see who will make way for Brown next week. Tried hard all day, just poor in marking contests and probably not up to the level that is needed. I like the guy and can't fault his effort to get to the contest but he just doesn't add anything to the team.

Docherty - Couldn't make much of an impact but did well enough. Stuffed a helicopter kick into the forward line in the last quarter which was really poor and he needed to nail it. I hope he is retained. I thought it frustrating that he wasn't put on the wing or on the ball when he was subbed into the game - I don't think he could make the impact we needed in this game from the backline.

Lisle - Ran and jumped hard at the ball. Clunked some beauties. Had the confidence but he is still too weak in a wrestling contest to beat his opponent but when he runs and jumps at the ball he was unstoppable (that right unstoppable). Zac Dawson couldn't throw him off his line when he was running and jumping at the ball, Zac is bloody strong. Really promising, I hope he's learnt that you just need to throw yourself at everything that comes in and judging from today he has learnt it - I hope he doesn't forget it.

We just make some really poor decisions, we lack the polish with our disposal and some of our mistakes today were comical. Once we have the experience these things will fix themselves, we have some of the right cattle on the park, we just need to keep on keeping on. In a few years we are going to be a good team.

 

[Dylan12]

 

[theGav56]

Walters too

Not really meaning to impose on your Board, but we are also missing Morabitto, Griffen and Bradley, all of which would be best 22 to add to Pavlich, Sandilands and Walters in our high end best 22.

That was pretty ordinary game of football. I thought your intensity was pretty good, and I must admit I thought we would blow you away after half-time, which was not to be. Our midfield and systems were clearly more advanced than you guys put on the park today.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Not really meaning to impose on your Board, but we are also missing Morabitto, Griffen and Bradley, all of which would be best 22 to add to Pavlich, Sandilands and Walters in our high end best 22.

Pav, Sandilands and Walters agreed are all class, but Morabito may never be back, Griffen is an alternate and Bradley is well past his best. Not much point either side bemoaning who isn't out there because injuries are a part of the game. It's more about who you have to take their place and you are no doubt ahead on that score at the moment. We know where we stand and it is not at your level yet. But things change quickly in this game.

 

[theGav56]

Pav, Sandilands and Walters agreed are all class, but Morabito may never be back, Griffen is an alternate and Bradley is well past his best. Not much point either side bemoaning who isn't out there because injuries are a part of the game. It's more about who you have to take their place and you are no doubt ahead on that score at the moment. We know where we stand and it is not at your level yet. But things change quickly in this game.

I agree with that. Griff isn't an alternative though. Lyon wants to play 2 ruckmen, and he is our number 2, and slimmed down and trained as a forward pre-season. And I agree Bradley is not a "key player" for us but he is best 22, and in a forward line missing Pavlich and without our 2 first choice ruckmen, he becomes our best KPF by a mile.

It's more about who you have to take their place and you are no doubt ahead on that score at the moment.

I pretty much thought that too until I saw what Lyon has done with us this year despite the injuries. We have no-one to take the place of Pavlich and Bradley, demonstrated by Silvagni getting the red-vest and Hannath being out of his depth for now. Dawson was played forward which is such a comical notion that it needs to be seen to be believed.

 

[captainrich]

I agree with that. Griff isn't an alternative though. Lyon wants to play 2 ruckmen, and he is our number 2, and slimmed down and trained as a forward pre-season. And I agree Bradley is not a "key player" for us but he is best 22, and in a forward line missing Pavlich and without our 2 first choice ruckmen, he becomes our best KPF by a mile.

gee zac clarke definetly goes alright for a third choice ruckmen played a great game today

 

[LanLion]

This game was another of those that seems to be the slogan of the Voss era- tried hard, had guts but not good enough.

Overall I thought our team performance was not bad against a Dockers team currently on a very different level to us. But the problem is, never did I think we would ever have a sniff of actually winning the game.

I recall the discussion from before the Bombers win, has our side gone backwards from last year? It's still hard to say. There's a few standouts from our youngsters in my eyes, but we were saying the same thing all last year weren't we?

The positives from today for mine are-
1. Yeo- he is a very intelligent defender and has decent decision making for his experience level. And he has JETS. He should be playing regularly!
2. Lisle- raw, but I truly believe he has what it takes to make it at AFL level, and sooner than you think
3. Rich- will be better for the game, provided some spark and class. Can't wait for the 3 Rs and Moloney to be all on the park at the same time!
4. Burger- I am amazed at his level today- slightly below par but not much! I thought he was exceptional playing with his broken hand, against a very solid Zac Clarke.
5. Patfull- really good game from him today. Stood up well in critical situations for the most part.

The biggest negatives for me were Raines and Hanley. With Hanley I just hope that when Browny and Merrett get back, it allows Hanley to get back to what he's best at.

Pretty much Triple R has nailed it with his player grades above.

 

[Scubaveg]

26 scoring shots to 16. Actually makes the result look worse.

Agree that you were undermanned and had a few underdone players. But Freo has been undermanned all year and has played with a make-shift forward line missing Pavlich (who kicked 55 goals in the last 13 games of 2012) and Walters. And Sandilands is also a pretty handy player to have missing all year.

Go away.

 

[MacMum]

He looked absolutely buggered to me.

Apparently has a mystery illness...nothing too serious I hope.

 

[acuguy]

That was an extremely promising game, Luey was excellent and clunked some big grabs. Rich showed dash, poise and the ability to win one on one contest. Mayes is a superstar in the making, trying to work out who he reminds me of, I am going with a right footed Pendlebury. He is a jet!

It is now time for Vossy to be even braver at the selection table. It might be time to put a couple of red lines through 2 of our players and bring up some of our 2s. Unfortunately I am putting the Red Line through

Raines- Docherty to get his role
McGrath- Green or Karnezis come back in- Ash was good yesterday but he looks like he has eaten a watermelon, I am concerned his skin folds are so high and we still play him, what example does this set for our younger players

 

[Dan12]

I thought in the first half things weren't going our way. I thought Lisle should have had a mark awarded rather than a push in the back in the first quarter, there was a clear hold on him in that marking contest before he bizarrely kicked and caught the ball in the goal square and McGrath had a holding the ball decision turned down when Spurr had heaps of prior opportunity. These were all within twenty metres from goal, so I'll count that as three goals we should of had. Was I seeing things? I thought these were all terrible decisions against us. Were these free kicks? We also were unfortunate when Rich kicked to the runner, which led to a Fremantle goal.

Lisle showed he has potential. I will count his three goals more as five goals today if I take account of the above opinion. Great marking, ran to the right spots and played a very good full forward's game. All he lacks is aggression. If one day he lines up against a full back who slept with his girlfriend he'll kick 8.

Golby, Lester, Clarke and Mayes all showed their development is coming along at a good rate. Rich, Patfull and Redden did well. We just couldn't finish off or have any polish. Umpiring decisions weren't in our favour. We weren't as good handling the pressure as them, we couldn't run as hard as them and sometimes got pushed off the ball too easily. All hallmarks of a young team who are building but I'm confident we are on the right track and parts of today's game really built that confidence.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Agree with the positive comments. Some very good signs from our young guys - add Yeo and Harwood to Dan12's list. Shame that two others who should be pushing through with them - Cornelius and Karnezis - aren't up to it at this stage. What Ash McGrath has shown is how effective a pass to a leading forward can be, instead of that awful bomb it long method which predominates even when Browny isn't playing. Lisle also showed he could compete at this level. That team with Merrett and a fit Rich will be very competitive.

 

[Dan12]

Agree with the positive comments. Some very good signs from our young guys - add Yeo and Harwood to Dan12's list. Shame that two others who should be pushing through with them - Cornelius and Karnezis - aren't up to it at this stage. What Ash McGrath has shown is how effective a pass to a leading forward can be, instead of that awful bomb it long method which predominates even when Browny isn't playing. Lisle also showed he could compete at this level. That team with Merrett and a fit Rich will be very competitive.

Yeo! How the hell did I forget him? Harwood was good as well but made some skill errors. Yeo actually looked like a defender yesterday, not a wingman who had the misfortune of playing in defence. I agree our team looks really promising right now.

 

[Matt_BL]

these will probably be close to the ins we have this week:

In: Brown, Merrett, Moloney
Out: McKeever, Raines, Docherty

Probably will be a few good selections dilemmas this week considering we've had a few return from injury. If Moloney doesn't pull up I imagine Raines would keep his spot. Been a bit unlucky for Docherty this year, played as the sub a lot because he's that fringe type of player competing with Yeo and Golby for their spots.

 

[lionshine]

This game was another of those that seems to be the slogan of the Voss era- tried hard, had guts but not good enough.

Overall I thought our team performance was not bad against a Dockers team currently on a very different level to us. But the problem is, never did I think we would ever have a sniff of actually winning the game.

I recall the discussion from before the Bombers win, has our side gone backwards from last year? It's still hard to say. There's a few standouts from our youngsters in my eyes, but we were saying the same thing all last year weren't we?

The positives from today for mine are-
1. Yeo- he is a very intelligent defender and has decent decision making for his experience level. And he has JETS. He should be playing regularly!
2. Lisle- raw, but I truly believe he has what it takes to make it at AFL level, and sooner than you think
3. Rich- will be better for the game, provided some spark and class. Can't wait for the 3 Rs and Moloney to be all on the park at the same time!
4. Burger- I am amazed at his level today- slightly below par but not much! I thought he was exceptional playing with his broken hand, against a very solid Zac Clarke.
5. Patfull- really good game from him today. Stood up well in critical situations for the most part.

The biggest negatives for me were Raines and Hanley. With Hanley I just hope that when Browny and Merrett get back, it allows Hanley to get back to what he's best at.

Pretty much Triple R has nailed it with his player grades above.

Yeo has been playing regularly. He has only missed 1 game this whole year I believe

 

[lionshine]

What truly excites me is how much better players like Golby, Lester, Yeo, Docherty, Clarke, Harwood, Lisle and Mayes are going to be next year as a result of the games they are playing this year. This is going to be a perfect development year for those players

 

[jjami15]

It is now time for Vossy to be even braver at the selection table. It might be time to put a couple of red lines through 2 of our players and bring up some of our 2s.

Was thinking about this very fact this morning. I would go even further and say to play a number of the kids to get games into them. Understand that Vossy is coaching for his future but I would put the future development of our team first.

B: Golby, Merret, Yeo
HB: Patfull, Clarke, Docherty
C: Hanley, Redden, Mayes
HF: Zorko, Lisle, Rockliff
F: Leuy, Brown, Green
R: Longer, Moloney, Lester

Rich, Paparone, Harwood, Black

Polec to come back in when fit
Karnezis to come back in when learns to play defensively

Brown, Merrett, Black, Moloney , Pattfull, Leuy and the 3R's to be left in as our leaders and stability.

For me Adcock and McGrath as loyal servants as they have been should be left out of the team and only brought into cover the older players if out.

Younger players to come in for younger players if the need arises.

I still see that team as quite competitive but getting games into our younger players and to be left in only if injured, suspended or have a bad stretch for 3games minimum.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Was thinking about this very fact this morning. I would go even further and say to play a number of the kids to get games into them. Understand that Vossy is coaching for his future but I would put the future development of our team first.
.

Really? I think that could really damage the development of some of our players. Getting games into kids is what Melbourne is doing/has been for the past few seasons. We consistently are the less experienced team and regardless of who is coach we need to have our best 22-25 decided asap and let them learn how to win games together. Instead of saying gee he looks good for a 2nd year player, id like to be able to say that some of our middle aged players are consistently influencing games.

 

[jjami15]

Really? I think that could really damage the development of some of our players. Getting games into kids is what Melbourne is doing/has been for the past few seasons. We consistently are the less experienced team and regardless of who is coach we need to have our best 22-25 decided asap and let them learn how to win games together. Instead of saying gee he looks good for a 2nd year player, id like to be able to say that some of our middle aged players are consistently influencing games.

I understand your sentiments however we are nowhere near Melbourne I'm that regard. If you have a look at the team I out forward there is a definite core of older players who should play at all times to lead. When I talk about games into 'kids' I'm mainly talking about the group of Yeo, Docherty, Green, Paparone, Mayes, Longer, Harwood and Co who are in that infancy games wise. I see our team in three distinct groups Older, Middle and Young. I would begin to omit one or two from the Older and Middle groups to add one or two more from the Younger group. We are clearly not going to make the eight and even though it is a fine balancing act if done properly it is done for the benefit of the team in the long run.

 

[PertRoosOsborne]

Sigh