Review Rd 12 vs Hawthorn: Post-game review

[Balony_pony16]

Midfield was the place where we lost the game today. Some of our more experienced players really let us down, whilst some of our younger players stood up. Also wondering if they were trying to conserve energy towards the end with the bulldogs game in 6 days? It would make sense as that is a winnable game.

totally agree...we were still in the game at half time without Rich, Redden, and Rockliff barely impacting the game. They were passengers all day and we were bound to get over run in the end. Probably the worst game of these 3 guys combined I have seen!

 

[Balony_pony16]

Thought the umpires weren't much to complain about. Besides Maguire's 'holding the ball' that led to the Franklin goal (which was a very poor decision) I thought it was pretty even.

I agree...it was crap umpiring both ways...really frustrating to watch the umps cont to get whistle happy and ruin a contest with unneccessary stoppages

 

[Ironmonger]

First quarter was great footy. Then it went...bad.

Fitness is a concern. Just couldn't run hard enough from about halfway through the second quarter. Hawks got more numbers around the ball and it got much harder.

I know we're a young team, but I think it's a bit more than that.

This game reminded me a lot of the Carlton game. Which is strange. Because I put the Carlton game down to a five day break, and today we had two weeks.

And now we have six days to make the trip back down to Melbourne. I really hope we can recover because it looked like there were a lot of players struggling today.

 

[Last of the Roys]

- Our first quarter was pretty reasonable, although the scoreboard flattered us a little. The next 1 and a half quarters we were average or worse. The last quarter and a half the dam completely burst.
- 25 more scoring shots and 31 more inside 50's is just a complete annihalation. It could easily have been a 100 point loss if the kicking for goal had gone a little differently for both teams.
- We lost the Contested Posessions by only 5 and we won the clearances by 2, but if that looks OK on paper in reality it is completely misleading. They killed us most of the day in the crucial centre clearances, and more importantly they killed us by getting numbers to the contest all over the ground. Hawthorn having 27 more tackles despite having 57 more disposals says it all really.

All in all it was pretty dissapointing coming off the back of the West Coast effort. But it wasn't exactly unexpected. We still have poor skills, below average fitness & leg speed, and we are extremely inexperienced (which in part explains the poor skills and fitness).

We had 8 players in our team with less than 25 games experience. The Hawks had 2. No wonder we struggled to stay competitive.

I have already decided on what I would like the changes to be for next week.
- IN = Black (if fit), McGrath (if fit), Karnezis, Beams
- OUT = Harwood, McKeever, ACorn, Polec

Harwood struggled for a lot of the game in his defensive (?) role. He wasn't shocking, but I don't think he has the fitness, leg speed or the class to match it at the top level. I am starting to really worry about his future. McKeever wasn't good today to say the least, and the Bulldogs mostly have a pretty small forward line so he has to go. ACorn - 1 mark and 4 disposals is just no where near good enough - I don't care if we only had 40 inside 50's. Brown had 14 disposals, 10 of them contested and the guy can hardly move. Cornelius was also quiet in our win against West Coast. Polec - he has heaps of potential, he has just got to significantly improve his fitness.

 

[Balony_pony16]

pretty much sums it up to a tee LOTR!

 

[SSSSSS]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post on your board but just want to say that you found an absolute gun in Zorko. He was good the past two weeks (without me noticing much) but he had a storming game today. Your first quarter was great and aslong as you can keep that up for four quarters there will be more wins coming your way.

Vossy has copped a bit of flak in the past but he has you on the right track IMO. the youth that is coming up, especially in the midfield is very exciting.

Just also wanted to ask will Lisle be called up soon? Had a soft spot for Moose his time at the Hawks and thought he would have been a good player for us but unfortunately he went North.

 

[stuyd1]

I liked:
Brown's game. He actually jumped at the ball a few times, I thought those days were over. Looking 100% ATM
Ace's bump: always thought of him as a softie, hope to see that kind of aggression all year
Goose: if we weren't a bottom 4 team he'd be in the AA team. Those extra sessions in browny's gym are paying off
Zorko: lucky for his attitude problems, 3rd time I've heard Dwayne say that this year. Moves to right spots all the time and doesn't go to ground.

Yeah, Dwayne has stated that, because he must know the background story to Zorko and the Suns.He is just being careful not to devise the facts on air.Facts are, that Shaun Hart coached Broadbeach some 3 years ago and found/thought Zorko had an attitude/disciplne problem . Enter 2011 and zorko rises to another level due to current coach Matt Angus and fitness coach Foxy during the pre season.Zorko tore the Suns ressies apart in the 2 games they met in 2011 with the Suns coach ,Hart watching on.The Suns had Zorko listed but decided to give him to the Lions.UNBELEIVABLE.... Anyway , Lions gain, Suns loss.

 

[Balony_pony16]

On McKeever I really don't think he should be played in the team until he learns to kick with confidence! We already have Patful playing that shutdown role with limited offensive impact and most Lions supporters can except that, but we cant have any more.

Prior to Merretts injury last year he really improved his impact in games with defensive rebounds and should really be put down back...wasted big time playing decoy forward

 

[Balony_pony16]

Yeah, Dwayne has stated that, because he must know the background story to Zorko and the Suns.He is just being careful not to devise the facts on air.Facts are, that Shaun Hart coached Broadbeach some 3 years ago and found/thought Zorko had an attitude/disciplne problem . Enter 2011 and zorko rises to another level due to current coach Matt Angus and fitness coach Foxy during the pre season.Zorko tore the Suns ressies apart in the 2 games they met in 2011 with the Suns coach ,Hart watching on.The Suns had Zorko listed but decided to give him to the Lions.UNBELEIVABLE.... Anyway , Lions gain, Suns loss.

The Suns had rights to trade him. He wasnt listed with them...it is actually every other teams loss as the lions won the bid with a pick 30 odd

 

[stuyd1]

The Suns had rights to trade him. He wasnt listed with them...it is actually every other teams loss as the lions won the bid with a pick 30 odd

Balony, listed or not, the Suns should of secured him. After speaking to a Suns commitee person on Saturday they regret not grabbing Zorko. FACT,

 

[Haso]

Balony, listed or not, the Suns should of secured him.

*should 'have'.

But yes, you are right. Your pro-Zorko agenda has been apparent for some time now, stuyd1. He has been an excellent pickup, and he is showing signs of leading our half-forward line for many years to come. I don't see any evidence of attitude problems, and he appears to really love our club for giving him a chance at the highest level. I love our club for giving him a chance at the highest level, too. He is paying dividends at present.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The Suns had rights to trade him.

They could have kept him as a zone selection.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Balony, listed or not, the Suns should of secured him. After speaking to a Suns commitee person on Saturday they regret not grabbing Zorko. FACT,

yeah fair point...I guess when you look at the suns recruitment to that of GWS we cant be too surprised with how many misses they will have out of the draft. Glad we get a win over them and snagged him before other teams could jump as well

 

[jackess]

I think Josh Green might go back to being the sub again this week. A victim of his own success in this position.

 

[matwt73]

I think Josh Green might go back to being the sub again this week. A victim of his own success in this position.

Given that both he and Polec seem to have the skills but need work on their fitness, I wonder whether, Polec starting with Green as the sub might work. Polec starts on the wing, plays two and a half to three quarters, then goes off, Hanley pushes up to the wing, Zorko goes back to the HBF and Green comes on as the small forward.

A week or two in the ressies won't build their tank, they probably need one more pre-season just to get their bodies up.

 

[Ironmonger]

Given that both he and Polec seem to have the skills but need work on their fitness, I wonder whether, Polec starting with Green as the sub might work. Polec starts on the wing, plays two and a half to three quarters, then goes off, Hanley pushes up to the wing, Zorko goes back to the HBF and Green comes on as the small forward.

A week or two in the ressies won't build their tank, they probably need one more pre-season just to get their bodies up.

Yeah it's a bit of a dilemma.

I wonder if we'll see some pretty sweeping changes this week, with consecutive roadtrips off a six day break, and the team flagging noticably even before half-time.

Polkinghorne, McKeever, Green, Polec, Harwood, Bewick and Cornelius could all be in the firing line. Hudson might get rotated out if Longer is fit. Lester is another possibility. Has been good for a few weeks but is being asked to do a lot.

If Voss took an extreme approach it could be:

Out: Green, Polec, McKeever, Bewick, Cornelius, Hudson, Lester, Polkinghorne, Harwood
In: McGrath, Yeo, Stiller, Karnezis, Lisle, Longer, Beams, Black, Crisp

EDIT: That would obviously be the very extreme approach

 

[Morgs_]

Did anyone else notice Ace crunched his shoulder really bad in the final quarter? Went flying into the pack and landed awkwardly and was on the ground for a little bit before being assisted by the trainer? He stayed on the ground after but I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't named this week or is a late withdrawal.

Effort was there for the first half, endurance and leg speed really fell off after HT. Rich played his heart out and never gave up. He may not rack up the disposals but the ones he does get he actually uses it to our advantage. Bring on the Doggies on Saturday!

 

[Toffee Lion]

Yeah it's a bit of a dilemma.

I wonder if we'll see some pretty sweeping changes this week, with consecutive roadtrips off a six day break, and the team flagging noticably even before half-time.

Polkinghorne, McKeever, Green, Polec, Harwood, Bewick and Cornelius could all be in the firing line. Hudson might get rotated out if Longer is fit. Lester is another possibility. Has been good for a few weeks but is being asked to do a lot.

If Voss took an extreme approach it could be:

Out: Green, Polec, McKeever, Bewick, Cornelius, Hudson, Lester, Polkinghorne, Harwood
In: McGrath, Yeo, Stiller, Karnezis, Lisle, Longer, Beams, Black, Crisp

EDIT: That would obviously be the very extreme approach

Might as well add Bartlett and Docherty to that list.

 

[jackess]

My changes

OUT: McKeever, Bewick, Green (or Polec)
IN: Black, McGrath, Lisle

Lisle to replace Merrett forward/second ruck so Merrett can head down back. Hopefully.

Bulldogs will probably play 3 talls again but regardless of that with Merrett back McKeever makes way.

With Black and McGrath coming back; 2 of Bewick, Green or Polec need to make way. I'd like to give Harwood another chance, can't see the sense of only giving him one game back plus I thought he showed something against the Hawks. Zorko and Polkinghorne are the small forwards and possibly Ash depending on matchups. Polkinghorne goes to Murphy and plays a defensive role on him.

Cornelius needs to do something or good form could see Karnezis replace him the following week.

Lester to Boyd could be good for a bit of experience. Raines to Griffen.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Green has been doing a decent job up forward. I'd be disappointed if he gets dropped. I think Huddo needs more of a chop out so Lisle could be a chance.

 

[Caiphus]

First quarter we were so precise with our ball movement and were lucky that Hawthorne couldn't kick straight.
They had the extra gear to step up to where they knew if they pressured us enough our neat disposal would disappear, and that is exactly what happened. We are winning clearance stats atm and decent at the hardball, I've also seen enough signs that our disposal is improving. After the 1st quarter the Hawks did a really good job of shutting down Hanley, Drummond and Rich so we lost a lot of our drive forward.
We are still 1 elite kick short I think, to have that extra option when those damaging players are shut down. Polec could be it if he could get his fitness up, but it is encouraging to think we still have Bartlett and Docherty to come in. Add in J Clarke's skills instead of McKeever down the track and we have some players that once they have some senior games into them could completely transform the side up a level.
We were more competitive today than I thought we would be, and 70 tackles is usually a pretty decent go of it. Hawks got a lot more tackles because we were first to the ball quite frequently we just didn't have the composure when heavily pressured to dispose to someone in the open, or for players to get free to receive.

 

[charles202]

Im choosing to view it as in the last three games of football we have managed to put together two quality games. Which I think is an improvement from twelve months ago. Especially considering that two of those teams are a real chance to end up the season top 4 sides.

Zorko was great, and as already mentioned shows the difference, and importance, in getting games and maturity into our kids.

Next two weeks will show how far we have come as a team. No excuses, the aim should be two wins.

 

[Judge]

Given that both he and Polec seem to have the skills but need work on their fitness, I wonder whether, Polec starting with Green as the sub might work. Polec starts on the wing, plays two and a half to three quarters, then goes off, Hanley pushes up to the wing, Zorko goes back to the HBF and Green comes on as the small forward.

A week or two in the ressies won't build their tank, they probably need one more pre-season just to get their bodies up.

I guess the encouraging thing is that, on the evidence so far, both Polec and Green should become very good players after another pre-season or two.

Add them (plus a few others like Beams and Crisp, hopefully) in 2014 to the 3 R's, who by then will be 100+gamers with 6 years of physical development behind them, and the midfield division should be at least very competitve.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

Just wondering how others saw Harwoods game and the role that he was asked to play? I understand he needs to add strings to his bow but the back half surely isn't for him. Seemed uncertain of whether he was allowed to attack the ball or not. The one definite positive for him was that his uncontested disposal (with one glaring exception) was the best it's been. Thoughts?

 

[Ironmonger]

Just wondering how others saw Harwoods game and the role that he was asked to play? I understand he needs to add strings to his bow but the back half surely isn't for him. Seemed uncertain of whether he was allowed to attack the ball or not. The one definite positive for him was that his uncontested disposal (with one glaring exception) was the best it's been. Thoughts?

He seemed to be playing as a small defender who occasionally rotated through the middle. Unfortunately a couple of times in the backline I thought he attacked the ball a bit too aggressively instead of protecting the space between the play and the goal he was defending.

I agree that that role doesn't really suit him but I also agree that he needs to be able to play in more positions. Another dilemma.