Autopsy Rd 14 Loss: Here comes another one, just like the other one

[Dunna Heartknee]

Might want to ask Brett Ratten what he learnt as a back pocket player before being moved into the midfield. It happens with a lot of players, it's hardly bogus at all, it just suits a current narrative to throw arms up about it.

Is that why Cripps doesn't chase because he never spent time in the back pocket?

 

[gab213]

Is that why Cripps doesn't chase because he never spent time in the back pocket?

You're just being silly now, I never said every player was developed in the same manner. Try again.

 

[gab213]

Kemp is utility, Stocker is not, agree its really dumb and lol at the constant examples of ex-footballers who did do well there.

You joke about Kemp but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he started back there.

Bloody hell Cobber "Insert ex-Carlton player from 30 years ago did it" Stocker can do it too!

Worked out well for SPS.

Do you think that SPS and Stocker are the same type of player?

 

[Sin City]

Time to put the boxing gloves on boys,Clarkos boys did it and came out after the bye and beat Sydney.

Our coach has style that is more bruise free than George Dillman, hard to see it happening.

 

[RAPPA]

lumping players into a back pocket position for “development” is as horrid as us fitting a square peg in a round hole by placing midfielders into a forward pocket.

 

[BlueBayou]

I cannot decide if I just wholly full on agree, or if I agree in part.

You don't suddenly expect a team to just up and play a different way, unless the plan to do so is simply 'take first option', 'play on instinct', 'play on always'; the simpler it is, the easier it is to transition to it. What we were trying was an incorporation of a Bolton-esque deep press into a Teague gameplan (think, his press in 2017 that held its position deeper rather than what he was doing in 2018-19 which had a close press at the ball carrier to shut down short options and drive them wide) but the players that weren't there for Bolton - who have no way of learning or knowing how to play that press - kept ******* it up.

See, I don't like the notion that players don't try. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would you actively walk out there, you're getting paid and not a small amount, and not do what you're told to do? Even if you don't do what your coach says, why wouldn't you just play the game your way and have a bit of fun?

Going out there and not giving it their all isn't something that happens all that often at AFL level. You're going to see it maybe once every 5 seasons. You're going to see players ignoring or forgetting coaching instructions far more often, and that's why it's a bit of a struggle as to whether I agree in part or in whole.

Because today, I saw players who weren't trying, and who were struggling to adapt to something they didn't agree with.

I guess it is clumsy terminology from me. There are degrees of effort. They make the effort to turn up on game day, they make the effort to go through a warmup. they make an effort to walk through a banner. (no run through these days)

Then there is continuous, 100%, no excuses, commitment to a common cause. I don't see this sort of 'effort' in the Blues performances recently. Even the games we have won have been more about individual talent than any sort of coherent system.

IDFK what the problem is, what the underlying causes are (there must be multiple layers of issues) or what to do about them. I'm just some mug in the 'burbs pontificating. But I know it hurts to watch our once proud and powerful club disintegrate before our eyes,

 

[gab213]

lumping players into a back pocket position for “development” is as horrid as us fitting a square peg in a round hole by placing midfielders into a forward pocket.

Every case is different, what is wrong for one person may be right for another, you can't have a blanket policy either way.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Something else that bothered me last night - that leech Matt de Boer went to Sam Walsh from the first bounce. They dropped the tag a bit in the second half, but in the first half did anybody think to maybe go into bat for the 20 year old copping a hard tag for the first time in his career?

Crippa, Ed - you’re standing next to him at the centre bounce - ******* put a body across. Block him. Tackle to hurt. Let him know that if he wants to sit on Walshy he’s going to need to sit in the ice bath for the next 2 days.

We’ve been horrible at this for years - could you imagine if this was Hawthorn 2013-15 and de Boer tried to sit on Sam Mitchell? Hodge would have run through him and crunched him multiple times. Our team needs a serious dose of campaigner (I think you guys like “mongrel” here)

Does it actually achieve anything though?
I remember Crowley giving Mitchell a bath in the grand final, the thing is they actually had other players who could stand up. Walsh isn’t even our main stoppage player so he should be the one going to Hopper or Taranto giving us a spare at the contest the same as what teams do to us when Ed tags

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Kennedy was amazing last night - he ran hard, outmarked mostly everyone and found plenty of the pill.

Playing for his career, the players that are will keep putting 110% in till the end of the season. It's the other ones, who are losing faith/ not buying in, that seem to be at the core of the effort issues. Although it's somewhat understandable why...

 

[RAPPA]

Every case is different, what is wrong for one person may be right for another, you can't have a blanket policy either way.

leaving Stocker on Liam Ryan and Toby Greene is negligent coaching. That’a not good for player development nor is it helping Teague’s own individual cause of maintaining his position.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

You're just being silly now, I never said every player was developed in the same manner. Try again.

Seems strange to play a player with a hard edge in the backline,
when the midfield requires a hard edge to it.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

You're just being silly now, I never said every player was developed in the same manner. Try again.

Your argument is irrelevant. Stocker is not a Back Pocket, yes he tries - but he is being thumped there. Ratts was a back pocket as it was the only position available for him. We have:
Docherty, Williams, Saad, Plowman, Newman, Williamson, Parks who are all better options.

He is tough, hard and clean. Rotate him off the HFF. Drop Martin and let him get fit, Martins role is similar to Stockers; a classy, tough, limited minutes midfielder suited best to kicking the ball i50.
Of on-ballers, the only blokes I’m comfortable having a run infront of Stocker are:
Walsh, Cripps, Dow and Kennedy.

Would rather Ed run off the wing as he’s a running machine, he’s also on his way out so Stocker should be getting games ahead of him.

Stocker being played as a back pocket when we have so much depth in the backline and no midfield depth really epitomises everything that’s wrong with our club currently.

 

[BlueVision]

I think Stoker showed some good signs last night when given a run in the midfield & think his grunt inside is of more benefit than throwing him in a back pocket.

 

[gab213]

Your argument is irrelevant. Stocker is not a Back Pocket, yes he tries - but he is being thumped there. Ratts was a back pocket as it was the only position available for him. We have:
Docherty, Williams, Saad, Plowman, Newman, Williamson, Parks who are all better options.

He is tough, hard and clean. Rotate him off the HFF. Drop Martin and let him get fit, Martins role is similar to Stockers; a classy, tough, limited minutes midfielder suited best to kicking the ball i50.
Of on-ballers, the only blokes I’m comfortable having a run infront of Stocker are:
Walsh, Cripps, Dow and Kennedy. Would rather Ed run off the wing as he’s a running machine, he’s also on his way out so Stocker should be getting games ahead of him.

Stocker being played as a back pocket when we have so much depth in the backline and no midfield depth really epitomises everything that’s wrong with our club currently.

Your response being verbose doesn't make it any more relevant than anybody else's. You have an opinion which is different to mine, that's all.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

No body grows up through junior footy as a back pocket player and gets drafted.. Platers adapt and find positions that either suit the teams needs or the coach identifies something in the player that they think will make them be good at that role.

sometimes players just need to adapt and learn the role to get a game, most fringe players will play anywhere they are asked just to get a game..

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

lumping players into a back pocket position for “development” is as horrid as us fitting a square peg in a round hole by placing midfielders into a forward pocket.

I don't understand how we have room to keep putting midfielders in the back pocket. We have 437 half backs on the list already.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

leaving Stocker on Liam Ryan and Toby Greene is negligent coaching. That’a not good for player development nor is it helping Teague’s own individual cause of maintaining his position.

Newman played most of that game on Greene and got smoked. The poor coaching was not pulling him off and trying someone else there...

In fact Teague admitted we played a +1 in defense yet could not once fill the leading lanes in front of finlayson or Greene.

What the * was the positioning of that +1 then??

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

leaving Stocker on Liam Ryan and Toby Greene is negligent coaching. That’a not good for player development nor is it helping Teague’s own individual cause of maintaining his position.

Only because supporters ignore midfielders getting smashed head to head. He probably would’ve got given a bigger bath by Yeo. Most supporters wouldn’t acknowledge it but internally they absolutely would.

 

[gab213]

Newman played most of that game on Greene and got smoked. The poor coaching was not pulling him off and trying someone else there...

In fact Teague admitted we played a +1 in defense yet could not once fill the leading lanes in front of finlayson or Greene.

What the fu** was the positioning of that +1 then??

The lack of making a change when a player is being beaten is a bigger concern than some of the others people express to me.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[blue healer]

leaving Stocker on Liam Ryan and Toby Greene is negligent coaching. That’a not good for player development nor is it helping Teague’s own individual cause of maintaining his position.

Stocker was not on Toby for long last night. Why do you think he whacked Newman?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Your response being verbose doesn't make it any more relevant than anybody else's. You have an opinion which is different to mine, that's all.

How is my post being verbose relevant at all? Where did I suggest that it being verbose made it more relevant than yours?

rather than arguing further, I’ll just agree to disagree with you. Clearly, you - along with myself and many other baggers here are still reeling from last night so we’re susceptible to being more snarky than usual.

I hope you enjoy your week ahead mate!

 

[dumb]

Kemp is utility, Stocker is not, agree its really dumb and lol at the constant examples of ex-footballers who did do well there.

You joke about Kemp but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he started back there.

Bloody hell Cobber "Insert ex-Carlton player from 30 years ago did it" Stocker can do it too!

Worked out well for SPS.

our own bryce gibbs spent some time in defensive roles. not sure whether that made him a better player.
best current example would be callum mills.

not sure where i sit in this line of thinking, giving some examples.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Toby was always going to be a huge problem. Was not happy about the Stocker match up, but who else could have done better.
When he was given midfield time, he really shone.

It was Liams best game to date and I am happy that at last we have a real grunt player who enjoys the physical side of the game. His kicking is improving every week as well.

Stoked to see Bam Bam play so well, I knew he had it in him. Many had written him off as a list clogger. Just reckon his great form over the last six weeks in the two's and last nights game is the result of him finally having full faith in his body again.

Frustrating to watch us bomb the ball to Harry constantly and expect this tactic to result in us kicking a winning score, just madness.

Next week we should see the return of Honey, he offers the explosiveness and x-factor that our forward line is so sadly lacking.

Really disappointed in the games of Martin and Williams. They both DSFU and need a rocket.

Need to see young Ramsay, SPS, Carroll and Kemp come in over the next two or three weeks.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

This is a more appropriate review of the game from a Carlton supporter perspective!