Autopsy Rd 14 Loss: Here comes another one, just like the other one

[gab213]

How is my post being verbose relevant at all? Where did I suggest that it being verbose made it more relevant than yours?

rather than arguing further, I’ll just agree to disagree with you. Clearly, you - along with myself and many other baggers here are still reeling from last night so we’re susceptible to being more snarky than usual.

I hope you enjoy your week ahead mate!

Absolutely, hope you have a good week too, I think we're all at a point where we've had enough.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Only because supporters ignore midfielders getting smashed head to head. He probably would’ve got given a bigger bath by Yeo. Most supporters wouldn’t acknowledge it but internally they absolutely would.

Noticed Stocker pushed into the middle a bit more this week finished with 18 possessions and 6 marks .
He shows more physicality with better foot skills than most of our list .
I would doubt our coaches even more if they were keeping Stocker away from the midfield because they where thinking he couldn't acquit himself well as a mid .

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Noticed Stocker pushed into the middle a bit more this week finished with 18 possessions and 6 marks .
He shows more physicality with better foot skills than most of our list .
I would doubt our coaches even more if they were keeping Stocker away from the midfield because they where thinking he couldn't acquit himself well as a mid .

I think they are easing him into it which I fully support. Hopefully by the end of the year he is a full time mid. Nothing wrong having a second position though. Hawthorn gets mentioned a lot and Hodge was their most important player and played back for large amount of his career so players aren’t always wasted there. The last few weeks we have also pumped big midfield minutes into Kennedy, Dow and Setterfield so I expect we will see the same with Stocker over the coming weeks.

 

[CordonFnBleu]

This may seem relatively minor in the scheme of things but imo is symptomatic of everything we do on the field: why, in the name of dog, do we always concede ground when the other team has the ball?

If they take an uncontested mark, nobody aggressively pushes up on the mark to ensure they don’t get an easy extra 5m. Instead, we actively run AWAY from the mark, often allowing the opponent to waltz along for 5, 10, 20m under zero pressure, turning a short gain into a much bigger one.

The same applies to stoppages. As soon as our mids see that the other team has won the footy, they all immediately sag off and start half-heartedly jogging towards our defensive 50, instead of charging in at the player with the ball and applying aggressive in-your-face pressure that might effect their disposal. What if the opposition fumbles? They actually do this often, and incredibly then have all the time in the world to pick up the footy again, because all our guys have literally run away from them.

Now this to me is a clear coaching issue, where the players are “thinking” too much about what they’re supposed to do next (get back and help the back 6 maybe?) instead of playing footy on instinct, which should be to attack the fu** out of the man and the ball every single time you see a chance.

Our group are wired all wrong at the moment, they are so passive, never wanting to impose their will on the game, jogging, corralling. It’s seriously so bizarre. I think we have lost sight of such a simple basic element of the game: if you never give an inch, you create pressure, force turnovers, win the ball back and create opportunities to score.

So why are we literally giving metre upon metre to the opposition, so willingly? Almost like it’s part of our game plan?

Just watch the successful teams in how they work the ground, and notice the huge difference. They - WB. PA, BL, GFC, RFC etc - all swarm in packs and surge the ground, whereas our guys aren't being taught that or are simply not buying in and are always running around like headless chooks.
If we don't have the right pieces for that chessboard, then throw them out and get new pawns that know how to fight for their King/Queen.

We know that our King won't be Teague - he will be gone some time next month - new King needs to have authority, charisma, leadership and experience, ie someone these pawns will fight for.
Expect memberships to drop between 10-15% next year if they don't start getting this right.

 

[Coops93]

Kennedy was good. I thought Cripps was good but went missing in the 4th qtr. Stocker was good ball in hand, but he's no back 6 defender.

We have too many good players to be this bad.

We should not be this weak willed.

 

[katmanblue]

Better pop on some extra snags Thursday night!

What on Thursday?

 

[Arr0w]

Teague stated he wanted to bring in tougher players, which would be true given Kennedy, Fog, Parks are naturally more aggressive

But for me, it's still a lack of trust and or innovation, especially if you want to try shifting magnets to get things to click

Kennedy spent time on a wing, did get a bit of it out there, from centre bounce outlet, but by the time he got the ball, GWS were already pushing numbers back. As soon as he went in the guts, anytime he did get the clearance, at least he hit the hotspot quickly. Rather than putting Kennedy on a wing, why not rest him forward and switch JSOS in the guts. It changes up how Haynes has to play the game

Ed, I don't get why he doesn't play purely as an onballer and or tagger. At least he will win a contested ball or negate the opposition

Doc, removed from the backline to play wing as he has struggled as a one on one defender trying to second guess intercepts. Try a stint forward where he is quick, huge endurance to repeat lead, generally sound overhead and a safe set shot

Try something different that suits the personnel

 

[Blue Heart]

Not sure about Lyon either but looking from a long way outside the club how would we actually know who is the best fit ? .
But we are here to give opinions also and im starting to think he's one of very few options we may have to explore .
If you want buy in and the tangibles youve mentioned Lyon will demand it and if he doesnt get it you'll be out of the place .
I think this is the start and end of our issues total buy in .

I really dont think we can compare Lyon to Malthouse as clearly Malthouse wasnt as invested as he could have been in the club .
Carlton sides just dont work hard enough on match day that is clear have said this for 3-4 years .
For whatever reason fitness , game plan , buy in dont know but i feel this is irrefutable .
These types of games v GWS just happen too often .

If he put a few off side thats fine with me because the club now must demand higher standards from its players and coaches .
Do we stick with Teague not looking good for mine as imo its clear he doesnt have anywhere near total buy in .
And that comes out with games like last night .
Do we go for a 3rd untried coach in this rebuild too risky imo will the players just continue to show up when they feel like it .

Whatever the case the next few weeks and rest of this year will tell a story on Teague and maybe even whether this rebuild will amount to very little or prosper .
We are fairly and squarely at the crossroads .

If we stick Teague, we will be having the same conversation in 12 months time and it will be truly another wasted year.

He maybe a very young nice fellow ... but footy is a results business. So if you can't win, we at least have to show some improvement.
And TBH, I haven't seen too much on field improvement of late.

 

[SBYM]

Does that suggest that you are comfortable putting blame on coaches but not players? Is there a difference?
You support the club just as all of us do.

I have no issue with fair and reasonable criticism. The vitriol can GAGF, particularly when it is directed at young players.

The coaches certainly have more agency in all of this than some kid at the beginning of his career who has been conditioned to think yesterday is acceptable.

Really...in direct contravention to the old adage, this is a situation where the s**t needs to roll uphill. The CFC chose those players, it developed them, it coached them. As I said yesterday, they have been conditioned to dish up this half-arsed crap. There is no passion because, for whatever reason, the club structures put in place around the players are as solid as tissue paper.

 

[SBYM]

Maybe we needed a 'Malthouse', but we just chose the wrong one...

Maybe Ross coming in and kicking them all up the arse is what's needed, simply because standards across the board are are just so poor, or because what is acceptable is not getting through to them.

****ed if I know, tbh...

 

[Thrawn]

I love Kade Simpson. I loved Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, etc. at their absolute peak too. Most of them were good clubmen. However, none of them knew anything about the standards required to play winning football.

I'm sorry, but Kade Simpson?

The same Kade Simpson who'd put himself in danger by dropping back in front of key forwards charging at him?

The same Kade Simpson in Round 12, 2007, who shouted at the team to pull their finger out as they were all walking heads down (except him), dejected, at half time as they were walking to the rooms?

The same Kade Simpson who, in numerous times, would work his arse off despite his frame and despite having to pick of the mess of players like Bower, Livingston, Thornton, etc?

The same Kade Simpson who was snubbed a few times for AA selection because of utter knuckle-draggers like Luke Darcy?

The same Kade Simpson who would've arguably made a better captain than Chris Judd?

No! He had the standard to play winning football... he just didn't have the teammates with the same passion and commitment to the jumper as he did. To compare his competitiveness with Gibbs and Murphy, who as a collective didn't have the competitive spirt and passion as Simpson does in his pinkie finger is a ridiculous thing to say. Wash your mouth out, please, for dragging down his name like that is just bullshit.

 

[Boy with chook]

Kennedy was good. I thought Cripps was good but went missing in the 4th qtr. Stocker was good ball in hand, but he's no back 6 defender.

We have too many good players to be this bad.

We should not be this weak willed.

Yep. Feels like we’re driving with the handbrake on.

 

[Duece1995]

mentally exhausted? over a ball sport? that you're not even participating in? do you think you might have deeper issues beyond carlton?

View attachment 1159152

Says the one who never leaves this forum and has over 100 thousand posts.

 

[thylacine60]

Says the one who never leaves this forum and has over 30k posts.

there's still a spot on the bf remedial maths course if you are quick........

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Apart from being totally incapable of defending an opposition kick-in, which is beyond ridiculous, the other thing that annoys me is the number of frees we give away at centre bounces.

Usually at stages where we have momentum, happened again last night in the 3rd when we were surging.

Fix this please.

 

[ctwenty1]

Are

We can cry all we like fact is any side who has mcgovern Saad wiilliam Martin in there top 6 paid players is really going to struggle . With our list demographic these guys are our oldest players and leaders in two years - get ready for more pain

they?

 

[Ash24]

Had a function to go to and didn't watch the game (can't be f'ed watching a reply after what I've heard so far). Anyone able to please tell me how JSOS went?

 

[KnaveyBlue]

The worst part about this loss?

When the players came out after half time the camera was on Curnow. He looked absolutely miserable, like he didn't want to be there. He looked sad and defeated.

He's a genuine happy dude who gives his all, and even he was at rock bottom.

 

[le dominateur]

It was a pathetic effort. McKay probably the only player to beat his opponent, Kennedy was passable. Plenty of guarding space and corralling, not enough tackling, helping teammates, aggression and intensity. Even Weitering looked disinterested.

 

[azlou]

I'm sorry, but Kade Simpson?

The same Kade Simpson who'd put himself in danger by dropping back in front of key forwards charging at him?

The same Kade Simpson in Round 12, 2007, who shouted at the team to pull their finger out as they were all walking heads down (except him), dejected, at half time as they were walking to the rooms?

The same Kade Simpson who, in numerous times, would work his arse off despite his frame and despite having to pick of the mess of players like Bower, Livingston, Thornton, etc?

The same Kade Simpson who was snubbed a few times for AA selection because of utter knuckle-draggers like Luke Darcy?

The same Kade Simpson who would've arguably made a better captain than Chris Judd?

No! He had the standard to play winning football... he just didn't have the teammates with the same passion and commitment to the jumper as he did. To compare his competitiveness with Gibbs and Murphy, who as a collective didn't have the competitive spirt and passion as Simpson does in his pinkie finger is a ridiculous thing to say. Wash your mouth out, please, for dragging down his name like that is just bullshit.

He’s talking about the other Kade Simpson

 

[azlou]

Had a function to go to and didn't watch the game (can't be f'ed watching a reply after what I've heard so far). Anyone able to please tell me how JSOS went?

Standard JSOS game low possession drops marks follows up slowly gets to the ball second tackles scraps and kicks a couple of points

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Standard JSOS game low possession drops marks follows up slowly gets to the ball second tackles scraps and kicks a couple of points

Wish this wasn't so accurate.

 

[FRUMPY]

Had a function to go to and didn't watch the game (can't be f'ed watching a reply after what I've heard so far). Anyone able to please tell me how JSOS went?

He was very ordinary.....along with about 18 others

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

 

[Davey33]

Have to say I find the perception of Docherty here interesting.

Has been diabolically bad for the past 3 weeks (Swans, Eagles, Giants) yet I would argue he was in our best for the 3 games immediately before that - in our best 3 against Dogs and Dees IMO, and in the best 5 against the Hawks. His form earlier in the season prior to that game was actually pretty solid - he copped it on here for a couple of glaring errors against Port yet in the immediate weeks after that all the talk was about how Doc was "looking like his old self". Month is a long time in footy.

He's playing a role not particularly familiar to him because our footy club thought it prudent to spend upwards of $1.4m a year on 2 half back flankers - one who absolutely cops it on here (Williams) and the other who seems to be exempt (Saad). I really don't see it with Saad truth be told - doesn't really defend (admittedly defends better than Williams or Docherty but fu** that's not saying much is it) and offensively I think what he adds is hugely overrated - part of that is our system being terrible but running fast to his left and then kicking long to a contest isn't a particularly efficient way of going forward. This isn't even mentioning Newman who would also rather have the ball in his hands than defend.

I'm not defending Doc's last month of footy (he's been shithouse and a poor leader on top of that) but our team is woefully imbalanced and I think his performances are suffering for it. He's been an AA and a B&F winner playing off half back - his best form this year was when he ******* played there and we didn't try and shoehorn 3 other half back flankers and a midfielder into our back 6.

Someone else mentioned him being fumbly late in games and I've also noticed this with him - particularly also looks gassed late in quarters/games which is why some of his more memorable gaffes being in last quarters. Food for thought for the fitness guru because he's not the only one flagging in red time...

Theres enough insight in this post alone for me to vote for you to replace Teague as our next coach.
Congrats

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

Well, what do you say about that? When Toby Greene kicked that bomb from 70 odd metres it sealed the deal for me. The lack of leadership on field is staggering and some of the players have zero clue and/or confidence. I'm really not sure where it all stems from but i watched a good chunk of the game with a buddy of mine who's actually a crows supporters and even he was wondering what the hell we were doing out there. Even some of weetos decisions early on when the ball was coming into the D50 just seemed odd. Across the board our confidence is just shot to bits. Players like Jack martin and newman amongst others have lost their mojo and zing completely. It's just gone gone gone. It's like we're scared to win and everything seems so reactive. Whenever a player does try something, show a bit of creativity/flair, they hit a brick wall. turnover etc.

What's happened.? I watched the blues beat the crows in july 2019 at the MCG. That day we just played with so much zip and confidence and our skills were just a cut above. Cripps was running around owning the place and some of our ball movement was slick, sharp and pretty to watch. "here we go", I thought.

How can we be here? It's becoming laughable. ANd as I sat there saturday night I could see my Crow mate cracking a cheeky grin.
They are going to put us to the sword on the weekend. You thought the giants loss was bad?

Strap in kids.