Autopsy Rd 15 Messy contest as Blues cleaned up by Giants

[SurreyBlue]

I am a huge Teague fan and have confidence in him to get things right as it all takes shape over the next couple of seasons, but I think he is absolutely taking the piss to not have given Cuningham more opportunities on the ball after his BOG 28 possession display v *. Very arrogant move imo.

This along with Fisher and SPS. Surely O’Brien is a better option then Cottrell as well. Flagging Cripps and Very few midfield rotations this year doesn’t sit well with me. Oh well, what do I know.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

This along with Fisher and SPS. Surely O’Brien is a better option then Cottrell as well. Flagging Cripps and Very few midfield rotations this year doesn’t sit well with me. Oh well, what do I know.

Personally I prefer Cottrell to O'Brien. On paper O'Brien should be the better footballer but I just think Cottrell will force the issue more and become a good AFL player.

 

[thylacine60]

agree, soap.........like his zest.......

 

[GoBlues!]

This along with Fisher and SPS. Surely O’Brien is a better option then Cottrell as well. Flagging Cripps and Very few midfield rotations this year doesn’t sit well with me. Oh well, what do I know.

Not sure what the MCs thinking is on LOB....he wasn’t even named as an emergency.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

agree, soap.........like his zest.......

A good way to look at it is as an opposition player... Who would you fancy your chances against more, O'Brien or Cottrell?

I also think O'Brien's quality ball-use is very much overstated.

Cottrell is rough around the edges but I really like his competitive nature. His running power has already translated to AFL level but O'Brien's hasn't... Perhaps a lack of mongrel in the latter?

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

A good way to look at it is as an opposition player... Who would you fancy your chances against more, O'Brien or Cottrell?

I also think O'Brien's quality ball-use is very much overstated.

Cottrell is rough around the edges but I really like his competitive nature. His running power has already translated to AFL level but O'Brien's hasn't... Perhaps a lack of mongrel in the latter?

Agree with you on cottrell.
Some players are really good at getting out of tight spaces, not as many players are really good at creating space
Honey is in both category's where do you see his best position going forward?

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Agree with you on cottrell.
Some players are really good at getting out of tight spaces, not as many players are really good at creating space
Honey is in both category's where do you see his best position going forward?

I haven't seen enough of Honey but you would think the "Gibbons-style" high half-forward role would suit him.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Thanx


Was really impressed with Polson last night too, good chance of being a weapon going forward

 

[passmark]

Not sure what the MCs thinking is on LOB....he wasn’t even named as an emergency.

Maybe he's not up to it yet.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Thanx


Was really impressed with Polson last night too, good chance of being a weapon going forward

Yep. Really like the look of him in the small running defender role. Playing with dare which is a credit to the coaches who have obviously given him licence to back himself.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Surely we're past the stage of importing opposition has-beens (noting that we probably failed to do so when the time was right under Bolton). Hawthorn, Geelong (and to a lesser extent Richmond and the Bulldogs) built their winning cultures off the back of young guys playing and experiencing success together in the VFL. By comparison, Cross and Lewis haven't exactly tuurned things around at Melbourne.

What we're trying to build has to come from within if it's going to stick.

I'm not suggesting has-beens (to me at least, that indicates they're no good anymore - eg, Cross/Lewis). I'm suggesting the type of players who are approaching the end (though still have a year or two of excellent football remaining), who should be, without question, best 22, and who bring such self-belief that they benefit us on-field directly and by (more importantly) improving the culture of the place. Admittedly, there don't seem to be a lot around this year. I look to teams that are just beginning rebuilds - Kangas, Hawks, Crows - or try and find players that might just want out/squeezed out.

Could mean a Sloane (30) or Smith (28) from Crows, Cunnington (29), Smith (31)/Gunston (28)/Breust (29)/Shiels (29). Happy to offer the money to get them interested, and clubs beginning rebuilds tend to be reasonable to trade with. I wouldn't want to give up too much in the way of players/draft picks. From that list, I'd be interested in any of Sloane, B Smith, Cunnington, I Smith (and would prefer all to Simmo or Murph). The others less so, but still interested in the other Hawks.

Hawks drafted incredibly well at the start of their move early 2000s but you look at the characters they recruited and it's not surprising the players developed a ruthless culture - it started with Hodge, Brown and Mitchell in 2001. Many would rank Hodge as one of the all-time great leaders. I think Cripps will go down a great captain, but we don't have much after that - next in line would be Walsh, imo, and that is telling given that we are 5 years into our rebuild. Within 5 years, Roughead, Lewis, Franklin, Sewell and Birchall were added to the Hawks - more competitive beasts. Two weeks in a row we've seen specific contests that say a lot about where we're at..

In any case, it may well be true that we do get there just by sticking to the current approach, but we've developed maybe 1 or 2 leaders in the past 20 years so I think there is a risk in expecting that culture to develop inevitably. My belief is that getting one or two of those older players in may reduce the risk, and I think we need to do whatever we can to reduce that risk. I certainly don't want to prioritise it over a Williams type, but there is no reason we can't take both approaches to the trade period.

Apologies for the massive response - I gotta stop spending so much time on BF (and thinking about footy!).

 

[The Dog]

The walk-out was 2013.
Their rebuild began a full 2 years before ours.

Noted, I stand corrected.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[DangerousD]

First 4 - 5 years of a players career is rarely linear

Just like Weitering, or an injured Harry early, SPS in a foreign role, Fisher suffering a number of injuries, Charlie's current injury, etc etc

Yet, based on results( this is how most analyze progress), we have come a long way in 2020

I expect us to make finals next year, which will thrill the masses, but I will probably be more critical than most, starting from this off season trade/draft period, depending on how we approach the period.

It will be clear if we are impatient, or holding our nerve

I understand the linear improvement line and I’ve seen real improvement in some players to date, like you I expect to play finals next year too, but in regards to improvement not being linear, whilst teams don’t get better each week and take a long time to develop consistency, you can usually see the glimpses of talent and the glimpses of brilliance and the occasional game where it clicks and confidence is high.

I worry that with some players this year, that there hasn’t been any glimpses, i Am worried about Dow but he has been injured, I am more worried about LOB and SPS, with SPS being the biggest concern, I see him as being too slow, too timid, too lazy and too weak to compete at AFL level. Lots of players and teams stagnate not many go backwards that far and recover.

I will reserve my judgement on whether we have come a long way in 2020, lose the last 3 and I’d say we haven’t, win 3 and it’s a fantastic success, I would be happy with 1 win and some positive signs to finish the year in for a few individuals. I’m not too sure on how to judge our improvement as it hasn’t come from the young draftees like Dow, LOB, Stocker, SPS, Cuningham and trades Kennedy and Marchbank, we have been playing a old side and I’m not sure how to judge our progress.

 

[DangerousD]

I once played with a bloke who'd take it as a personal insult if someone from the opposition made more runs than he did. One day, one of our opposition got 166, the team 315 (in 45 overs) and he took it as a challenge. He got 121, off about 80 odd balls, and we won the game inside 32 overs.

Love the post, and I do agree.

I captained a side, we had a fantastic run and made the GF from 3rd and played 4th in the GF, we rolled them for 130 and we were dismissed for 120.
I heard two people say, I knew we weren’t going to win (neither made a run)
The player who made 50 odd and was the last batter out (skyed ball) blamed me for batting him too low

The point of your story and mine and what I was trying to get across to Arrow was that, players mindsets and confidence is a huge thing, if you think you aren’t going to win then you most likely won’t.

Living in England for a few years it was very interesting noting just how often the soccer team on top of the table would win in the last 3-5 minutes, great teams think they are going to win, they believe it even when it looks like they are done.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Defneive running that means you man doesn't get the ball or you block up space is hardly going to result in a tackle.

I think there is a disconnect between what the supporters want from Dow and what the coaches want from Dow.

To me this is a very common phase in a young players education, going from the underage simply hunting the ball now they are trying to build all the defensive running and then eventually he will be released back to hunt the ball once he has shown he can do the defensive side.

Where is the evidence of Dow learning a
defensive game? Agree that he has to show this side of his game। soon.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Not sure what LOB offers that is a marked difference from what we have seen? Would like the opportunity to see it though

 

[Judd1400]

Yep. Really like the look of him in the small running defender role. Playing with dare which is a credit to the coaches who have obviously given him licence to back himself.

He actually played well in his second game back.
We need a nimble defender as we are on the slowish side down back.
I was not a fan but he looks like he is on the improve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[David Sylvian]

Finally watched the match this morning, no sound. Please stop potting Dow.
Theory on goal kicking, less time in quarters so more percieved pressure to kick accurately, small difference.
Harrys kicking is too relaxed, set shot routine please.
SPS seemed to be tracking Coniglio for the first three quarters, how did "Cogs" go?.
Cotterell is the rubber band man, bounces in and out of contests, has all the attributes, learning fast.
Doc has had the fumbles for a while now but towards the end of that game really regained some touch and authority.
Jack Martin wants to play midfield and should, kept willing himself into the game, wants to win.
Betts needs to go back to assisting team mates score rather than attempt highlights and going to ground far to often.
McG showed some real pace but at all the wrong moments.
Weiters Walsh Ed Murph and Setterfield pretty damn good.
Nearly got there.
Oh, and venting at Jones, then applauding him, becoming a humorous part of watching me, watching the Blues.

 

[BlueBayou]

Can someone tell me why Teague let Haynes do what he wanted all night with pretty much no one going up against him all night why the fu** wouldn't you tell McGovern or Casboult to just not let me go up uncontested and ever marking contests all these new age coaches haven't got a ******* clue sometimes to ******* nice

I said in an earlier comment that I would have experimented with Liam Jones as a 'defensive' CHF on both Moore last week and Haynes this game. Tell Jones to play CHF like he plays FB, punch when behind, mark the thing when he can, but above all else be accountable for the intercept defender.

It may be a little radical, it may even work. It would definitely stop Jonesy's 2 goal a game brain fades at FB.

 

[HARKER]

Personally I prefer Cottrell to O'Brien. On paper O'Brien should be the better footballer but I just think Cottrell will force the issue more and become a good AFL player.

If Cottrell had the kick O'Brien has, this wouldn't even be discussed.
Having said that though, Cottrells kicking showed up as being a reasonable standard via the pre-season.

It may not have to come down to one or the other, but if it did; I think the CFC have already shown their hand.

 

[LanceRomance]

This is an image of me skulking away from the TV on Thursday night.

 

[BlueBayou]

View attachment 953652

This is an image of me skulking away from the TV on Thursday night.

Man, it sucks that the barber shops are closed for covid, you really need a tidy up....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Couldnt agree more unfortunately we have 2 older players in Murph and Ed who cant really play anywhere else so the likes of Cunners and SPS are pushed elsewhere .

Spot on! And it's a bitter pill to take, especially when you know it's going to happen next year as well unless Murph gets injured.

With Ed I honestly don't mind, think we need an older bodied mid to take some of the load off Cripps and he's actually making solid contributions this season, but Murph... time was up last season if not, the one before.

 

[murphster]

I literally just SPEWED UP.......Three times

42 inside 50s for one goal......WTF !!!.....Our forward line was pathetic.

What a wasted opportunity......I think Im gonna be sick again

Yeah the forwards let us down again with poor finishing, must have had 6-7 set shots from between 50-40 and missed them all while Riccardi slots his one chance, Martin had 2 regulation snaps from under 30 and butchered them both badly, we should have been almost 10 goals up going into the last but instead we were 15 points up.

Can’t blame the mids or the defence for that loss as they gave us the chances but the forwards blew it, conversely our team defence restricted there chances to score, once again all down to kicking for goal which against lesser sides we can get away with but against the better sides you just can’t.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Spot on! And it's a bitter pill to take, especially when you know it's going to happen next year as well unless Murph gets injured.

With Ed I honestly don't mind, think we need an older bodied mid to take some of the load off Cripps and he's actually making solid contributions this season, but Murph... time was up last season if not, the one before.

Murph could play to his current output till he was 37-38 yrs old if he is continued to cruise through games with no defensive game whatsoever playing as a mid .
We arent a top side we dont have this luxury .
We are now over a season into Teagues tenure besides the obviuos talents of Walsh and a slightly improved Setterfield who is taking our midfield to the next level .
I undestand why murph and ed were sent back to mid roles but if we are going to take our game forward that midfield needs to evolve quicker than it currently is .
We tried under Bolton probably werent ready its time again .
It wont imo with both of them playing their current roles unless the club lands a topline mid from elsewhere .
But that is not a strategy to bank on .
I agree on Ed because of the defensive side to his game so imo if Murph cant spend larger chunks atleast 50% of gametime out of the midfield as a forward and contribute atleast defensively in that role he needs to be moved on .
We refuse to allow SPS to play to his capabilities and its to the detriment of the side longterm imo same goes for Cuningham .
Albeit fitness is probably playing a small factor with him .
Tough calls coming up but I suspect the club will give Murph a 1 yr contract and hope they can land a topline mid via trade or FA that they will hope will solve our mid issues .
Rather than making a tough call especially over the second half of this year and giving the likes of Cuningham and SPS much more mid time .