Review Rd 15 vs Sydney: Post-game views and reviews

[Panthera]

The Swans have had the wood over the Lions for the past decade, even during the three-peat they were dangerous. Our win/loss ratio is not as important as seeing genuine improvement in the young players. Some play well one week, others the next week. If the majority play well, we have a chance to win games....if not, well, we lose like tonight. It'll be another two-three seasons, when they are mostly in the 23-25 age group, that the Lions will be a tough, consistent team. A clearance specialist with our first draft pick is a must, our midfield needs this; most other bases in there are covered. Apparently the mids are quality in this draft, gun talls less so.

 

[John]

Probably a bit of a vague term, to be fair. What I meant to say is that I'm not certain he can really make it as a key defender.

Getting the kind of punishment he did today from a young forward like Reid doesn't bode well.

It does not bode bad either. I think he has made some positive improvements this year and I would not be surprised to see him permanently elevated if his improvement continues.

I am not sure that I think he was that disastrous really. I still say that if the midfield are going poorly that the defence are going to be under pressure for too long a time. I would obviously not want to have him have 5 or 6 dobbed against him each week but be that as it may it does happen even to the very best.

I am convinced that this board when discussing these losses is far too forgiving of the Rocky/Rich/Redden trio's defensive effort at times and pick on the less favoured. Rich was Ok going forward today but collectively the trio was defensively poor today. Singling out the defence is cheap criticism in my opinion when the mids are going poor. In a tight game I may be less forgiving of the defence but not in a blow out. Blow outs are down field issues.

 

[Ironmonger]

It does not bode bad either.

It does actually. You'd want to see him being at least competitive with players at a similar stage of development.

Of course you can blame the midfield, but there will always be times when the midfield is getting beaten, and that is when you rely on your defenders to make life difficult for the opposition forwards. Unfortunately, it was too easy for Reid today.

In McKeever's defence, it's always tough for a key defender one on one when he's not getting much support from the players around him. But even allowing for that he seemed to struggle.

He looked a lot more comfortable when he was moved off Reid. That's great, but key defenders need to be able to match up on key forwards to earn their spot.

 

[OldLion]

Our matchups almost played a number of Swans players back into form - got killed one-on-one after such a promising start. Long bombs to Reid. The move had to be made earlier to stem the flow. Forget structures at that point. Many players, esp across half forward, lacked intensity around the contest. Zorko was terrific as was Hanley. They keep on running. Polks must go - his opponent ran wild and he kept fluffing lines.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Our game plan has tended to revolve around short chipping until we get the right option, or Brown coming up the field and finding someone one out in the 50 through quick movement. I think Patty could be outstanding at this if tried, but sadly the Swans - slightly reminiscent of the Roos' days - flooded our forward line every time it went down there. Or maybe the lack of space was due to the tiny ground.

It seems to me that Adcock is always most notable when we are losing quite badly. Perhaps it's just how much we were missing Golby today. Stiller isn't bad, but I think Golby is a better kick and decision maker than him, so we lost a fair bit on the rebound.

As an unashamed Karnezis fan, I wasn't disappointed with him today but also wasn't that impressed. His marking was great, but he made a few kicking errors that I'm not used to seeing from him. He also struggled to impact the game much at all again - his biggest problem - but I put that largely down to the lack of forward 50 entry.

I think there may be a few changes this week. Any of Bewick, Stiller, McKeever, Polks, Beams, Karnezis, Crisp or Green could find themselves demoted this week. A reason why there have been so few changes recently (apart from this week due to injury) has undoubtedly been hesitancy to change a winning line up. This, imo, has saved Bewick and Polks for a week or two when they otherwise would've gone. Not the case this week though.

Also, just quickly, I really liked Vossy's comments in the post match presser. When asked who he thought played good games, with Zorko and Hanley mentioned, he replied, "We win as a team, we lose as a team". He also explained why McKeever was kept on Reid for so long in the video - probably a must see if you haven't already. On the club website.

 

[Last of the Roys]

My take on the match:

The experienced Swans dominated us all over the ground. It was pretty much as expected, but it couldn't help but leave our fans somewhat dissapointed. There were sparks of good play / good efforts, but they were few and far between. We just got taught a footballing lesson across the board.

I don't think the McKeever / Merrett thing was really much of an issue. We lost the game by being dominated in the midfield and around the contest; by bombing the ball into our forward line; and by allowing their defence to run us off our legs. Merrett may have done better but then you would have McKeever playing at half / full forward which is unacceptable IMHO. It wasn't as if McKeever was badly beaten - the ball was coming in under little pressure repeatedly and McKeever had virtually no help - contrast that to what was happening to Brown at the other end.

Down the other end our forward line set up was completely dysfunctional and the ball was just being bombed in. Green did nothing, but it was hard for him sitting under the ball all of the time; Polkinghorne was unfortunatelywent back to playing some atrocious football; Brown tried but had an off night; Merrett was so/so; at least Karnezis got some of the ball.

Anyway, the midfield is where we lost it. 10 less clearances, 7 less tackles despite 3 less contested possessions. And of course 59 clangers (only 30 more than last week!!!) - we were under far more pressure, but a number of them were just appalling (how many crap short handballs did we give up???).

 

[piari]

The team certainly has courage but lacks a common objective - they don't appear to have the ability to run to position. Too many times last night the ball came to the Lions 50 metre line and suddenly there were a couple of Swans players but not a sign of a forward - just what is the game plan for this to occur?
How many time did Browny attack the ball with at leads two opponents? Where is the spare Lions player? This has happened for so long that it defies any logic that a game plan exists to counter this. Browny just looks tired from carrying the burden for so long - brave but in need of help.
The biggest problem in the first half were the mistakes that the players mad handling the ball - understandable in young players, but where was the support for them. When Bewick dropped the ball there were three Swans around him in an blink and not a Lions player in sight.
I hope that Lisle, Docherty and a couple of other Magoos are given a chance now. The experience they gain will be invaluable and the players they replace will get the chance to show they are worth persevering with on next years list.

 

[Paulborracho]

Moving Merrett back would not have been waiving the white flag. We still had two tall leading forwards and a string of smalls.

Tonight I think the coaches either had a very poor game or alternatively they were trying a few different things in a game that we were at long odds to win. We were getting smashed in the clearances and yet at one centre bounce I noted that there was Raines, Polkinghorne and Lester all of whom were trying to find their man and had no interest in the ball itself. How the hell are we supposed to win a clearance if we have three guys in there who do not even try to win the ball?

Rocky did nothing much at all until the last which was disappointing. He also was not in the centre bounce much at all which I found odd seeing as he is pretty much our best clearance player. We were struggling in this area and yet we did not put either of Green or Harwood in there for even a short time. Both are clearance specialists. Instead we put a third tall type and a defensive forward who has shown no propensity to be able to win a clearance. There was obviously a plan going on but it confounded me as to what it was.

Karnezis looked really dangerous up forward but he is obviously still a way behind what is required endurance wise. Hopefully that will be addressed in the offseason and we could have a very good player on our hands. I thought Patty was pretty good all things considered today despite his shortcomings.

McKeever was found out today when he needed to put his body on his opponent. He didn't really have much idea about how to do that effectively and he paid a lot for it. Its been one bad game and its not time to panic or write him off. He will learn and an offseason building up his strength some more would help him a fair bit. Honestly I thought Patfull was just as poor if not poorer than McKeever and he did not have the excuse of inexperience. Goodes who has been in poor form absolutely schooled Patfull tonight. If you wanted to drop one of the defenders it should be a 50/50 call.

Crisp struggled with the pace of the game early and took quite a few bad options. He seemed to work into the game though. I think Voss really wants a big bodied mid and Crisp is the closest he has so he is giving him a chance to impress. So far it has been a bit mixed but he is worth persisting with.

Nice 100th from Stiller I thought. Very solid. I have no problem with him getting games and I would keep him on the list if I were making the decisions at the club.

Zorko, Hanley and Adcock all had very good games. If Hanley can keep his current form up through to the end of the year he would have to be an AA chance. Here's hoping.

Agreed on the above!

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Agree somewhat with John in that when Redden and Rockliff have poor games, the defence will always be under the pump, especially on a small ground like the SCG.

He seems to be a board favourite, but it seems as Green is becoming equally as ineffective as Banfield was. Between them the "forward pressure" duo of Green and Polkinghorne has to do more both in attack and in defence - only 1 tackle between them yesterday. Zorko is putting them to shame with his work ethic and smarts.

 

[acuguy]

I agree with Quigs when he said there must have been a few things we were trying in the coaches box. Rich, Redden and Rockliff were not mainstays at the centre bounce. We are learning, we need to have multiple options in there, it might cause us short term pain though!

As for Redden and Rockliff, when they didn't get their hands on the footy at the stoppage they also gave us nothing in blocks for other players. I put this down to communication when things were going tough they all started looking after their own property instead of working as a collective.

As for McKeever, people need to settle, take him for what he is- a 3rd year key defender with 3 years football experience. Physically he has the make up, he is doing okay, Sam Reid is a gun and he had some pretty good delivery from a rampant midfield.

We were too short down back, Lisle must come in this week. He can play key defensive or swap roles with Merrett. Personally i would rather see Lisle play in the backline. When our midfield is up and going they use big Rog really well and he is damaging. Let's not change the structure that has seen us have more wins this season than last!

Just lastly on Zorko and Hanley. Zorko is in our top 6 players, our young mids should watch tapes of him. He is at the footy, he hunts it, then he hunts the opponent, he follows up his possies and he presents up at the footy when he knows he has to. Unbelievable to think this bloke couldn't get a spot on a list. G.Ablett must be having KITTENS that the Suns traded him out for pick 34!

Hanley is on the cusp of realising that he can dominate this competition. I am very bullish when I say that i expect him to be our number 1 player on the list by the end of next season. You can see it in him, you can see the brain now thinking, i can take you on and beat you. He also took a nice mark floating back and kept his head up. This has been an issue in his game and he has fixed it. Sensational footballer!

 

[Bucking Beads]

As for McKeever, people need to settle, take him for what he is- a 3rd year key defender with 3 years football experience. Physically he has the make up, he is doing okay, Sam Reid is a gun and he had some pretty good delivery from a rampant midfield.

Fair call, I think the dilemma was that we just had nobody to swap with him unless we ruined all our plans.

We were too short down back, Lisle must come in this week. He can play key defensive or swap roles with Merrett. Personally i would rather see Lisle play in the backline. When our midfield is up and going they use big Rog really well and he is damaging. Let's not change the structure that has seen us have more wins this season than last!

Very keen to see Lisle get a crack but I feel it would be pretty hard on him to put him in the backline when he has been playing ruck/forward for the majority of the ressies season. Still open to that idea but I think Merrett down back if Lisle comes in.

 

[weevil]

McKeever got exposed because our midfield got smashed.

Was expecting this to happen at some point, it happens to young defenders sometimes. If the exact same thing is happening a year from now then there is a problem.

 

[Gabbatoir]

Premiership chance beats side in the middle of a rebuild, shock horror. Whilst I realise the point of these boards is to provide channels of discussion, writing off some players after one loss is just silly. Focus on the positives, a lot of the negatives from yesterday can just be put down to a lack of experience and as the players mature, the gap between their best and worst days will shrink.
Full credit to the Swans, they were a class above for most of the day. Goodes is a marvel, to still be moving as well as he does at that age is amazing.
For us, as people have said, Hanley is a star. I thought Crisp added a bit at times and is something worth persisting with over time.

 

[Fatcat08]

Surprised Drummond isn't getting a bit more discussion on here for what I though was an extremely poor game especially defensively. Given for large parts of the game he was our loose man in defense his inability to be 3rd man up in a contest and provide some support for our key defenders was appalling. Also continually tried to take on a tackler and was caught red handed more than once.

Rather than mckeever being singled out our defensive unit was poor in getting across into the space in front of goodies and Reid and going 3rd man up in a contest. Harwood did this well last week but seemed to be playing a tighter role this week.

Overall I think we suffered from the lack of time that you have on a small ground and panicked a lot when we got the ball. After the last 2 week's where we've had a lot more time and space we just couldn't adapt and suffered greatly.

In the 4th rocky and redden finally became involved and we looked a bit better. Where did they go for the first three quarters?

 

[vonn]

I was watching Reid pretty closely last night and the thing that stood out was the fact McKeever got lost when Reid led to take the mark. I don't know if he's more of a body on body player but that wasn't the right match up as Reid is actually fairly quick and agile for his size. Also the ball that was going in was nearly always spot on, I don't think their was much more McKeever could do taking into account his experience, inability to match Reid on the run and the lack of support he had from teammates.
Another thing is he was really conscious of his man and not the ball, which didn't help his positioning when it came in.
Just some quick observations from the ground.

 

[chopperduck]

We got jumped pretty much, smashed in the face, especially in the midfield and this put us right off our game. We went back to the bad habbits, which happens when you get put under extreme pressure. We had 3 players hunting 1 Swan looking for the tackle, meaning 2 other Swans were free and clear. We just couldn't stop their ball movement through the middle, this is mainly a confidence thing. When your team mates are sticking tackles and winning the footy, you have the confidence to run off your opponent and make yourself an option, this didn't happen. As such, when we won the ball, we didn't have a lot to go to, and were forced into quick bombs forward. This is why players like Rich, Hanley and Zorko who kept running and presenting all day, ended up with a lot of the ball. Zorko especially is just a gut runner, he is always running to either receive the ball, or to kill it.

As good as Redden and Rocky are, they are still young players, and are going to have off days. It shows how important it is for the midfield to not only play well individually, but as a unit, backing each other up. Credit to the Swans, they didn't let us do anything we wanted.

 

[Triple R]

Surprised Drummond isn't getting a bit more discussion on here for what I though was an extremely poor game especially defensively. Given for large parts of the game he was our loose man in defense his inability to be 3rd man up in a contest and provide some support for our key defenders was appalling. Also continually tried to take on a tackler and was caught red handed more than once.

Drummo was effectively tagged out of the game by one of the best key defenders (now playing as a forward) in the game. LRT is a big unit and smart defensively. On several occasions he was out-bodied and shown to be holding LRT because he was unable to match him physically. We didn't have the luxury of playing him on a medium small type and running off, he had to play 3rd tall on someone who was more concerned with stopping him than getting the ball. It boils down to improper use because of our lack in key defenders.

I've loved sauce down forward this year but in order to cover the loss of McGrath and Golby he needs to play back to release Drummo. Lisle will need to come in for he forward ruck role (or maybe Longer)

 

[chopperduck]

I was watching Reid pretty closely last night and the thing that stood out was the fact McKeever got lost when Reid led to take the mark. I don't know if he's more of a body on body player but that wasn't the right match up as Reid is actually fairly quick and agile for his size. Also the ball that was going in was nearly always spot on, I don't think their was much more McKeever could do taking into account his experience, inability to match Reid on the run and the lack of support he had from teammates.
Another thing is he was really conscious of his man and not the ball, which didn't help his positioning when it came in.
Just some quick observations from the ground.

McKeever is a very fast and agile player himself, i believe he is up there in our club for speed, as well as endurance, so i was disappointed he didn't get a fist anywhere near some of those marks. He is still a pretty raw player, reads the play to slow to know where the ball is going and probably therefore ends up watching his opponent too much, which means he will be second to the drop of the ball. He doesn't play body on body much, and Reid took advantage of this having clear run and jump at it all night. I think the commentary team did a good job of pointing this out, as well as the difference when Merrett played on him. His experience just kept that body contact, and didn't let him have that run and jump at the ball.

Swans had good delivery all night, so he was always on the back foot, but he has the tools, just not the knowledge to use them the best way i think. If Swans weren't hitting up pin point leads, they were kicking to dangerous spots all night. Was a hard night for our defenders, but Merrett showed how valuable experience is and the difference it can make. McKeever wont' learn this if he doesn't play though.

 

[vonn]

McKeever is a very fast and agile player himself, i believe he is up there in our club for speed, as well as endurance, so i was disappointed he didn't get a fist anywhere near some of those marks. He is still a pretty raw player, reads the play to slow to know where the ball is going and probably therefore ends up watching his opponent too much, which means he will be second to the drop of the ball. He doesn't play body on body much, and Reid took advantage of this having clear run and jump at it all night. I think the commentary team did a good job of pointing this out, as well as the difference when Merrett played on him. His experience just kept that body contact, and didn't let him have that run and jump at the ball.

Swans had good delivery all night, so he was always on the back foot, but he has the tools, just not the knowledge to use them the best way i think. If Swans weren't hitting up pin point leads, they were kicking to dangerous spots all night. Was a hard night for our defenders, but Merrett showed how valuable experience is and the difference it can make. McKeever wont' learn this if he doesn't play though.

Ah Okay didn't know that much about McKeever and wanted to give some unbiased feedback as some supporters on your board were (unfairly) tearing into him. Just wanted to say there wasn't much more he could do. But agree will Defs be better for the run. Haven't heard anything from the commentary as I haven't watched a replay yet, I'm sure Roosy was at his unbearable best. I won't complain but anyway good luck for the rest of the season.

 

[chopperduck]

I've loved sauce down forward this year but in order to cover the loss of McGrath and Golby he needs to play back to release Drummo. Lisle will need to come in for he forward ruck role (or maybe Longer)

Merrett has worked up forward, and i wouldn't want to change a forward line that has worked for us this year, however i'm torn as i see the same issue. We are just lacking a bit of experience down back with Ash, Goose and Golby out. Golby is only young, but he has been so so valuable this year going both ways. I think Merrett will help settle things down back and as you say, maybe free up Drummo which would be handy to cover the rebound of Golby.

It means from Brown, Merrett and Ash we are down 2 players from the setup that has functioned the best from us. What is the point of a good defense if we can't score? I just don't know which way we should go on this one. Lisle i think could take Merretts spot, and would provide some contested marking inside 50, letting Browny work up the ground a bit, which isn't a bad thing, but we are certainly missing Ash's experience and leading. Losing Ash and Golby has really effected our structure.

 

[chopperduck]

Ah Okay didn't know that much about McKeever and wanted to give some unbiased feedback as some supporters on your board were (unfairly) tearing into him. Just wanted to say there wasn't much more he could do. But agree will Defs be better for the run. Haven't heard anything from the commentary as I haven't watched a replay yet, I'm sure Roosy was at his unbearable best. I won't complain but anyway good luck for the rest of the season.

No probs, you were pretty much spot on. It's just his experience more so than his athletic ability that let McKeever down. He would probably be very similar to Reid in physical ability, but yeah, gets a bit lost when the ball is coming in fast and dangerous. It usually isn't as much of a problem as the delivery coming into the defensive 50 is usually under more pressure, which wasn't there.

I think the problem for most with McKeever is that there hasn't been a heck of a lot of improvement with his footy brain. He was struggling with the same things last year as well. He is worth persisting with, but will be interesting to see if we stick with him this week. We have options up forward, it's only McKeever or Merrett down back. I would maybe make the change until Goose can come back into the team.

 

[Lions_Fan]

Inconsistency is going to be common with a young group and I wasn't overly dissapointed. I definitely wasn't happy, but I wasn't expecting a win. A smaller margin would've been nice. I only saw the first half so I can't comment to much. Reid is a very good player and a fantastic mark. He's one of my favourite non-brisbane players. I wasn't suprised to see him beat McKeever, though by the time Merrett was moved on him the damage had been done. I was dissapointed in the midfield like alot of other people. At least Beams got some playing time, hopefully he'll get some more. I think it's time to bring in Lisle or Cornelius to help Brown while Merrett plays back while Goose is out. I was thrilled with Hanley & Zorko

 

[patfullfankezz]

A lot of players I guess were due for an off day. Why'd they all have to have them on the same day?!

Makes things a lot harder going into the next game.

 

[kylegee28]

I don't believe people are giving Sydney enough credit. Our players had off days because Sydney players made them have off days. They are just an absolute class above, and hopefully, in the next few years, we'll be able to match or even better that class.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

He seems to be a board favourite, but it seems as Green is becoming equally as ineffective as Banfield was. Between them the "forward pressure" duo of Green and Polkinghorne has to do more both in attack and in defence - only 1 tackle between them yesterday. Zorko is putting them to shame with his work ethic and smarts.

Absolutely agree with this. Zorko really is holding up a mirror, especially to Polks. Whilst I agree on Green, I give him a little more leeway due to relative experience. Polks has well and truly passed the games played barrier. I really think he doesn't believe he's up to it, and his own concern is killing him.