Review Rd 15 vs Sydney: Post-game views and reviews

[BrisLions3]

Don't have time to add more just now, but briefly:

Patfull = 190cm
Lester = 191cm

Also Redden is 189, Polec is 189, Maguire is 192 but they aren't utilities. Patfull is a medium defender, Polec is a wingman Maguire is a key defender, none of them are utilities. No one could confidently say where Lester or Crisp have been playing or are best suited to.

 

[BrisLions3]

Don't have time to add more just now, but briefly:

Patfull = 190cm
Lester = 191cm

Also by size, I didn't mean height, I mean body Strength and weight.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

I think he was more referring to the 5+kg weight difference.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Pathetic comment Kezz

I can't sprout classics all the time.

To be honest, I found the game frustrating. I just wanted to scream out "You guys are BETTER than that! I've seen it with my own two eyes!".

TBH we probably aren't, but some of our good performances have been great. I guess I shouldn't be too hard on the poor boy, he wasn't the worst, and I guess with a lot of the younger boys starting to get fatigued and a few probably overwhelmed by Sydney he wasn't helped.

 

[POBT]

No one could confidently say where Lester or Crisp have been playing or are best suited to.

I dunno about Crisp but Lester has spent significant portions of the last 4 or 5 games in the midfield. He has done a fair bit of work blocking for others at the stoppages and has been given defensive midfield tasks on occasion too. The advantage of Lester is that his engine and strength are ahead of his draft cohorts like Karnezis and Polec. That allows him to compete with the more mature bodies. I thought he had pretty good games against both West Coast and Hawthorn but I think he's struggled a bit in the past couple of weeks - I don't see him making as big an impression in the clinches as what he was when first moved into the midfield.

I've said for a while that I see him long term as a midfielder who can go forward or a forward who can go into the midfield. I think he's just a really solid all-round footballer - very few weaknesses. He's good enough overhead, works very well in tight, runs well for his size and is competitive. Let's remember that 2011 was almost a write-off for him so his exposure to senior level footy is minimal. Despite that, he's not missed a game this year (although I'd be inclined to give him a break soon). I believe that the club views him as a complete professional who does everything asked of him.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

Don't doubt your eyes Kezz. We are better than that and will prove as such this weekend ... I hope.
As for your boy, lets just say it wasn't his best game of the season but at the same time I think that Goodes has given up playing for another Brownlow. Played 'unsociable' football during the first half when the game was still up there to be won.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Don't doubt your eyes Kezz. We are better than that and will prove as such this weekend ... I hope.
As for your boy, lets just say it wasn't his best game of the season but at the same time I think that Goodes has given up playing for another Brownlow. Played 'unsociable' football during the first half when the game was still up there to be won.

I still can't believe that Joel can easily get smacked in the face (TWICE this season, the one in the Dogs game sending him off with the blood rule) and not even get a free but Simon clocks someone and gets reported! Okay, admittedly Goodes elbow to his nose was pretty quick, but it was still an elbow!

Lost a bit of respect for Goodes out of that.

 

[blynd_freddie]

I also struggle to see the 3 steps backwards and only one forward you are suggesting BrisLions3 – I know it was probably just to ‘coin a phrase but…

We went into this game having won four out of the last six games, hey even comparing the second half blowouts of 49pts - 11:9:75 to 4:2:26 against the hawks to the 26 point second half ‘blowout’ - 6:7:43 to 2:5:17 – suggests to me, some sort of ‘improvement’.

To be fair, the 30 odd minutes between the 6 minute mark of the 2nd quarter to the 9 minute mark of the 3rd was shyte – 9:6:60 to 3:1:19 – this 41 point variance is what I think Vossy was alluding to in his post-match summation but from this point on they only scored 2:6 to our 2:4 – I would have expected Longmire would have been very disappointed with the way Sydney didn’t finish off the game, surely he would have been chasing a more percentage due to tie up a top 4 possie?

Re the “lack of hard bodies” – yep, totally agree, our squad averaged almost 2.5kgs less per player and also averaged an amazing [almost] 50 games less per player…

Realistically, not such an unexpected defeat or margin in my opinion. oh and welcome.

 

[Tassie4ever]

It's one thing to bag out young players like Crisp, Lester and Karnezis for lacking the necessaries- they lack the fitness, judgement, game experience and skills base older players normally have. OK, last game v the Swans there was no place to hide and it showed sadly as it always will with a genuine full court press side.

On the other hand I give you Zorko. Who was out injured until well into the season. Had zero preseason. And who starred against the Swans- ie, excuses can take you only so far.

Then, as others above have commented, we come to Polkinghorne. What exactly is he in the side for? As a "defensive" forward- fail. Marking forward- fail. Goal kicking forward- fail. Contested ball- fail. Pressure on opposition ball carrier- fail. Doesn't appear anywhere in our top stats that I can see..

Debuted 2008, is 23 yo. Should be in the prime of his career.

Preseason, I predicted our progress would be told in whether Stiller and Sheldon would be be getting a game. Well I think we may have seen the last of Stiller for a while, but perhaps I should have included Polkinghorne.

Then again, who could have predicted he would go backwards.

 

[BrisLions3]

I dunno about Crisp but Lester has spent significant portions of the last 4 or 5 games in the midfield. He has done a fair bit of work blocking for others at the stoppages and has been given defensive midfield tasks on occasion too. The advantage of Lester is that his engine and strength are ahead of his draft cohorts like Karnezis and Polec. That allows him to compete with the more mature bodies. I thought he had pretty good games against both West Coast and Hawthorn but I think he's struggled a bit in the past couple of weeks - I don't see him making as big an impression in the clinches as what he was when first moved into the midfield.

I've said for a while that I see him long term as a midfielder who can go forward or a forward who can go into the midfield. I think he's just a really solid all-round footballer - very few weaknesses. He's good enough overhead, works very well in tight, runs well for his size and is competitive. Let's remember that 2011 was almost a write-off for him so his exposure to senior level footy is minimal. Despite that, he's not missed a game this year (although I'd be inclined to give him a break soon). I believe that the club views him as a complete professional who does everything asked of him.

Really because I've seen him play as a forward, midfielder and defender this year?

You make him out as though he is the next brownlow winner but in reality he averages 14 touches, 2 tackles and 4 marks. Hardly the stuff of champions. I really couldn't comment on the engine thing because I haven't really noticed his running ability but he performed poorly in the 3km run. I fail to see a spot in the midfield for him with Rich, Rockliff and co. He has the size to make it as a medium forward but lacks any form of contested marking ability. The other things you mention being competitive and a professional, well pretty much every AFL footballer is competitive and a professional, excluding the obvious cousins, fevola, connors types.

 

[John]

Debuted 2008, is 23 yo. Should be in the prime of his career.

The only comment that I will make is that I think that to say that sports people being in the prime of their careers at 23 in generally too young. I have tended to put the prime at 25/26 plus. It an be all downhill from about 29/30 onwards.

 

[kylegee28]

Just watching the replay of the game and couldn't help but notice that the banner didn't mention anything about Chinnys 100th

A sign he is on the way out perhaps?

 

[patfullfankezz]

Just watching the replay of the game and couldn't help but notice that the banner didn't mention anything about Chinnys 100th

A sign he is on the way out perhaps?

What a swift kick in the crown jewels. On the way out or not, you still acknowledge what people have done for the club.

 

[kylegee28]

What a swift kick in the crown jewels. On the way out or not, you still acknowledge what people have done for the club.

My thoughts exactly.

Poor form, indeed

 

[Haso]

My thoughts exactly.

Poor form, indeed

Didn't even notice that, and now I feel terrible. That might warrant a polite please explain tweet to @BrisbaneLions

 

[weevil]

Yeah that is really rough.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Perhaps the banner was done up early.

 

[whatboutbob]

It's one thing to bag out young players like Crisp, Lester and Karnezis for lacking the necessaries- they lack the fitness, judgement, game experience and skills base older players normally have. OK, last game v the Swans there was no place to hide and it showed sadly as it always will with a genuine full court press side.

On the other hand I give you Zorko. Who was out injured until well into the season. Had zero preseason. And who starred against the Swans- ie, excuses can take you only so far.

I'm not sure that you are, but IMO one can't compare 23yo Zorko with many pre-seasons under his belt (albeit probably a touch 'easier') to 20yo's. Having said that, I am astounded at just how game-fit Zorko is. I'm not sure he'd win beep-tests, but his competitiveness and drive to get to the next contest and to get to space when needed is a credit to himself and an example for the kids coming through. I'm just completely chuffed that we've got him and he's quickly becoming one of my faves.

 

[Grimreepah]

McKeever had a shocker, but I thought it was good that Voss stuck with him. It is not uncommon to see coaches have a plan B of switching around key defenders and key forwards mid game, but I can't recall it ever resulting in a win. So I've got no problem with Voss giving plan A every chance of coming good.

As is always the case, their midfield were too big and strong and their defensive pressure strangled us into making mistakes. Our mids need to reach that level to give us a fighting chance next time.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Really dissapointed with that banner, Regardless if he has hasn't been playing in the seniors much lately or out of the club soon.

He still has played 100 games for the Lions and should be acknowledged as a part of our club and what he has done for it.

 

[POBT]

Really because I've seen him play as a forward, midfielder and defender this year?

You make him out as though he is the next brownlow winner but in reality he averages 14 touches, 2 tackles and 4 marks. Hardly the stuff of champions. I really couldn't comment on the engine thing because I haven't really noticed his running ability but he performed poorly in the 3km run. I fail to see a spot in the midfield for him with Rich, Rockliff and co. He has the size to make it as a medium forward but lacks any form of contested marking ability. The other things you mention being competitive and a professional, well pretty much every AFL footballer is competitive and a professional, excluding the obvious cousins, fevola, connors types.

I disagree with most of what you say. He is a second year player who has played almost every game. On that basis alone, he is ahead of the development curve. His ability to compete with mature bodies at a senior level is ahead of the 3 other guys we took with our earlier picks in the 2010 draft.

Further, if at aged 19/20 you stand out at a football club for your professionalism, then chances are that it is a pretty strong characteristic.

He has played a variety of roles. So has Harwood. Black has been given different roles. Merrett has played back, forward and ruck. McGrath has been everywhere. You seem to be criticising him for a lack of a defined role - he has been given roles that have lasted several weeks. But as team need has changed, so has his role. I would have thought that flexibility sits in the plus column, rather than the minus. You said that no-one could know where Lester is best suited to playing - I told you that I had a very certain view on where Lester would end up.

One of the things our midfield lacks is genuine size and presence. Lester is capable of bringing that - the West Coast game demonstrated what he could do in that role. He bashed bodies and won the hard ball. You don't absolutely need that type in your midfield - but it can help. He showed in games against good quality sides what he was capable of as a midfielder. He has dropped off in recent weeks and, on that basis, I think that he either needs a break or needs to go back to the reserves to develop his game a bit more.

I reckon he is a highly promising type. I don't think he is the next Brownlow medallist. I'm not sure why you believe that having a positive opinion on a player therefore equates to some hyper-inflated prediction of future glory.

 

[Fatcat08]

I'm very bullish on Lester. For a second year player he is doing extremely well in a number of roles. Sure he's going to be up and down but overall they are very good signs. Long term i'm completely in agreement with POBT and I see him as the type of player that we all hoped (and still hope) that polkinghorne could be, that bigger bodied mid that can go forward as well and kick some goals. The advantage Lester has is that he can also play back. He's a very similar size to Jobe Watson and while he won't be that good (although you never know this early in a career) I see him providing that big body around the contest. Player take time to develop in their ideal roles and coaches have no choice but to put them there sporadically. Very few players are absolute stars in their first few years.

As for McKeever I think he was a victim of both a poor midfield effort and also a complete lack of assistance from the rest of the backline. It was the first week I can say we have been really poor in working for each other down back and the lack of a 3rd man up or someone cutting off space was glaring. I probably don't see him long term being a permanent full back or CHB but he will be more than serviceable as a backup for a fair few years yet.

 

[POBT]

I see him as the type of player that we all hoped (and still hope) that polkinghorne could be, that bigger bodied mid that can go forward as well and kick some goals.

Very good comparison FatCat.

 

[jackess]

I think it would be extremely close minded to pigeon hole Lester as a certain type of footballer at this stage of his career. He could end up being a medium or tall defender or forward, a link up midfielder or a hard inside midfielder.

 

[Apex61]

Polks lost his feet then handballed (poorly) to Bewick.

I felt this was a turning point in the game. We were in it up till this point then confidence went.
Bang they Goal and our team just went Bleh and started to crumble.