Autopsy Rd 16 Blues last quarter comeback ends in heartbreak

Who played well for the Blues against the Dees in Round 16?


  • Total voters
    176
  • Poll closed .

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
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I actively hate the idea of SPS becoming a backman. He's too much a natural mid for it for one, and his skills at extricating the ball from a contested situation to clear advantage are waaaay too valuable to throw him behind the ball. Around the stoppage is the perfect place for him.

Having said that, you're not wrong that we certainly need some more quality in the back half, some silk by foot. Part of our problem is that Plow's role is as much organiser as stopper; he's the mature player down there, and when Weitering went off he became the bloke that runs the back six. He's essentially third in line, behind Doc and Jacob; of course he's going to bite off more than he can chew. On one hand, we don't live in an ideal world, we're rarely going to have our full best back six available together; on the other, Plow cops it because he's effectively a bandaid for us, a jack of all trades that is expected to cover for a positional or leadership hole. He looks s**t when we're under siege or when a game is this close, because he's playing the hardest role across the back six; you cannot simply be all things. He cannot be the small defender and the intercept marker and the third man up and the playmaker at the same time; imagine how long your apprenticeship would be to collect all the skills needed to be that bloke. How long'd it take Dylan Grimes to be able to do most of that? And that's with Richmond supporters calling for his head for the better part of 10 years; and people on the Carlton board reckon we do whipping boys!

Plowman is average by foot, but he is required to be exceptional sometimes and gets found out. I'd sooner be blaming Weitering's injury, Simpson's decline, Newman's scattergun and Jones' chaotic influence than Plow's disposal by foot.
That's a bit strong isn't it? I fully agree.
 

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BlueGum

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Jan 16, 2016
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FIIK why we were so off the mark in the first half.

It seems to me that the zone thing anchors players to the guarding space role. I appreciate it at he ground when you can see how it works - really slows down the opposition, and forces them to kick back or sideways or to contests. Can be really effective at creating turnovers.

We ain't good though at switching into attacking play - there doesn't seem to be a system about it. Systems would help players do what was expected of them, and be predictable to the player with the ball? Instead we seemed to panic and our disposal went to ****. Created turnovers back the other way. Frustrating. Other teams gt the overlap run up and going.

Jack was great. Levi, Kreuz, Murphy, Walsh the Wonderboy also had good ones. Setters and Kennedy got better in the forward roles. Weiters is getting to be mr reliable (until his nose is broken).

Looooooking forward to the day we beat Melbourne. I really dislike them.
 

Blue and Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 29, 2018
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FIIK why we were so off the mark in the first half.

It seems to me that the zone thing anchors players to the guarding space role. I appreciate it at he ground when you can see how it works - really slows down the opposition, and forces them to kick back or sideways or to contests. Can be really effective at creating turnovers.

We ain't good though at switching into attacking play - there doesn't seem to be a system about it. Systems would help players do what was expected of them, and be predictable to the player with the ball? Instead we seemed to panic and our disposal went to ****. Created turnovers back the other way. Frustrating. Other teams gt the overlap run up and going.

Jack was great. Levi, Kreuz, Murphy, Walsh the Wonderboy also had good ones. Setters and Kennedy got better in the forward roles. Weiters is getting to be mr reliable (until his nose is broken).

Looooooking forward to the day we beat Melbourne. I really dislike them.
Lot of sense here Bluegum.... :thumbsu:
This zoning I feel depends greatly on knowing when to switch and that is very much an experience thing. Staying safe in coralling mode a few seconds too long is all it takes for it to go pear shaped.
 

agro

Premiership Player
Jun 7, 2003
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Pretty hard to get anything done offesively when 4 of our 6 defenders are all bad kicks and turning it over consistently. weiters is a good kick and simmo is ok but not elite. they others would be considered poor
how many turnovers did newmand and plowman have in the first qtr?
Plowman is pathetic by foot. Having good skills isnt just about the physical execution of the skill but also the mental ability to make the correct decision.. maybe he has a role as a lock down defender but we need to get some class around him (doc, willo, stocker & SPS) and have designated kickers
Simpson, Newman and Plowman- who is the fourth?
 

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
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FIIK why we were so off the mark in the first half.

It seems to me that the zone thing anchors players to the guarding space role. I appreciate it at he ground when you can see how it works - really slows down the opposition, and forces them to kick back or sideways or to contests. Can be really effective at creating turnovers.

We ain't good though at switching into attacking play - there doesn't seem to be a system about it. Systems would help players do what was expected of them, and be predictable to the player with the ball? Instead we seemed to panic and our disposal went to ****. Created turnovers back the other way. Frustrating. Other teams gt the overlap run up and going.

Jack was great. Levi, Kreuz, Murphy, Walsh the Wonderboy also had good ones. Setters and Kennedy got better in the forward roles. Weiters is getting to be mr reliable (until his nose is broken).

Looooooking forward to the day we beat Melbourne. I really dislike them.
I remember how, the year before last, when they thought they'd be the next big thing, their supporters ran all over the main board and on the team boards, commenting and liking melts on postmatch threads like crazy.

They are not the most likeable bunch, are they? I do hope we're not that insufferable in a few years.
 

Percy2257

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Suspended
May 11, 2019
140
255
AFL Club
Carlton
FIIK why we were so off the mark in the first half.

It seems to me that the zone thing anchors players to the guarding space role. I appreciate it at he ground when you can see how it works - really slows down the opposition, and forces them to kick back or sideways or to contests. Can be really effective at creating turnovers.

We ain't good though at switching into attacking play - there doesn't seem to be a system about it. Systems would help players do what was expected of them, and be predictable to the player with the ball? Instead we seemed to panic and our disposal went to ****. Created turnovers back the other way. Frustrating. Other teams gt the overlap run up and going.

Jack was great. Levi, Kreuz, Murphy, Walsh the Wonderboy also had good ones. Setters and Kennedy got better in the forward roles. Weiters is getting to be mr reliable (until his nose is broken).

Looooooking forward to the day we beat Melbourne. I really dislike them.
Me too!
 

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David Sylvian

Team Captain
May 19, 2019
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If you are referring to the one in the last qtr, that was after his opponent for the day had kicked 6 and was off the ground injured, The damage had been done. I love his athleticism and attack on the ball, but it needs to be better tempered and considered.
I was, he had, it hadn't we were still in it up to our eyeballs and you are right. :)
 

gbatman

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Mar 26, 2008
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???? SPS had 13 contested out of his 17? Hardly cruising around. 4th in pressure acts. I think he had a real go.
Stats don't show the full picture, you can jog after someone and it's a pressure act or have someone near you when you get the ball and it's a contested effort. There's a difference between registering stats like that and and how you go about it. You have a guy like Walsh who plays hard and has a high level of effort and puts his head over the ball and takes hard contact and you have guys who don't but still register similar contested ball.

I've watched the games this year, I don't just look at stats, I look at actions, I see a lot of people going half at it and a lot who go wholey at the contest and they do register similar pressure acts and hard ball gets and whatever.

There is a reason SPS, Fisher and Dow have been moved out from on the ball and Murphy and Walsh have come in from the wing to play more in the center. Because the latter have been playing harder and with more intensity. They haven't been moved out because they were going well in other positions, they got moved out because they weren't going well and weren't playing the hard footy that Curnow, Cripps, Walsh and even Murphy are playing.

Watch the games, going at a contested ball carefully, slowly and baulking at the contest, not going hard straight lines at the contest. I'm seeing that. That's part of why some guys who started this season in an inside role are now in outside roles.
 

mediumsizered

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Nov 11, 2005
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I agree that no balls should not be difficult to adjudicate, but at park level you're not getting people running in and bowling at 130+ every ball for 5 hours, either (unless the spinners are on). Could be that it's rather a good deal harder to look at the no ball line and watch the ball at that level of pace.
One of the contributing factors to missed no-ball calls is the distance umpires are now standing back from the stumps. This creates a distorted view of where the front foot is landing, complicated by scuffing of the popping crease & indentations which develop from bowlers' feet landing on or near the popping crease over & over again. It wasn't that long ago that umpires would stand no further back than the cut area of the pitch, but now they are standing up to a further metre back from there.
 
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Just wanted to point out the difference between this year and last.

Last year we averaged 61 points per game for and 103 points per game against.

This year we averaged 73 points per game for and 89 points per game against. So our defence and forwards are both 2 goals per game better off.

Only going to get better from here.
 

Les Bleus

Rookie
Feb 21, 2019
31
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AFL Club
Carlton
Slow starts does not equal lack of effort. Melbourne were constantly shrugging us and able to get away a next possession all the first half. Another pre season or two and tackles stick, bodies hold their ground.
The running capacity that this group has will not go away as they develop some “man strength”.
Soon we will be the ones owning the ball inside and running the game out.

It’s a long game, we are tracking very well



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Great observation.
I couldn't agree more and hope that proof will be in our 2020 season form.


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gbatman

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I hear ya Robin. Although I think those guys are out more because they flat out can’t run.
Maybe, I couldn't say what their running capacities are like, I wouldn't have thought they were bad, all I know is they don't attack the ball real hard and when the opposition get in they way they just don't go in low and hard like the others do and hit with impact. It's that impact that allows a player to win a free kick and break their arms free in a tackle. Even Silvagni has gone in there and given us that.

This part of the game is a big issue for us, we're just not a hard hitting team. Murphy has spent a bit of time not going hard but he's lifted recently, Ed goes hard, Cripps goes hard and it will be really good to have him back, Walsh goes hard and Jack is pretty hard at it. I think that's our midfield group right there. The velocity and desire to go low and hard and hit the man and the footy from Fisher, SPS and Dow has been low. One thing I will give Teague, he's sorted this out.

Even around the ground, Kennedy has come in and he's hit the footy hard and it's made things happen a few times. It's been a joy to watch because you get into serious games, it gets tough, the intensity goes up and players start hitting hard and if we build a team that can't do that then we're going to end up with a team that can with the soft games but can't beat the teams up the top and in the big games like what Ratten had to deal with.

They are out of the center because they don't physically compete hard, they don't hit the contested footy with velocity and haven't been putting their bodies on the line. Too many times I see from these guys, there's a moment you need to run hard at the ball, head over it and take a tackle and the issue is shirked or they do it at half pace and it's an easy tackle for the opposition when it could be a free kick to us or a possession for us. At some point these young guys need to draw a line in the sand and start playing tough footy or we're not going anywhere. Even Stocker showed signs that he's not going to shirk the issue and go hard when he has to, a few times he did things and took a hard tackle I just thought we might have one here.

Just an area of the game where we need to lift as a team and individual players.
 

FRUMPY

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Aug 18, 2006
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He just looks like he is doing it easy when he has the ball that makes people think he is cruising.
His effort is fine, its his kicking that is annoying me, goes for these dinky 15m kicks when with his skills he should be trying to bite off a bit more and hurt opposition. Last qtr against Melbourne and tries to hit a 10m kick and goes straight to Melbourne was bewildering.
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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Pretty hard to get anything done offesively when 4 of our 6 defenders are all bad kicks and turning it over consistently. weiters is a good kick and simmo is ok but not elite. they others would be considered poor
how many turnovers did newmand and plowman have in the first qtr?
Plowman is pathetic by foot. Having good skills isnt just about the physical execution of the skill but also the mental ability to make the correct decision.. maybe he has a role as a lock down defender but we need to get some class around him (doc, willo, stocker & SPS) and have designated kickers
I don't think Plowman is that bad by foot, but agree his decision making is very average and cause the turnovers. The daisy-cutter he kicked to JSOS showed he can have great footskills. A lot of the time his errors are lack of awareness (e.g needs to kick it lower or a bullet because someone is closing in) or tries to do too much. Same for Marchbank, its like they don't have peripheral vision sometimes.
 
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