Preview Rd 18 Carlton v Sydney Sat 23 July - 1.45pm @ SCG - Team post #166

[1981]

We will smash them bookmark it, the sauce says so.

Bombay, Kalina, India

OK, you have convinced me.

 

[Ti22]

OK, you have convinced me.

Good watch us finish the season by thumping a few teams.

Bombay, Kalina, India

 

[Soapy V]

I pulled it from the bit where you said that silvagni was selected because he was part of our future (which suggests Jaksch is not part of our future).

???? what has that got to do with being a father son or being blinded by his aura?

where did i say jaksch wasn't?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Silvagni is no more the future than Kristian Jaksch should be.

In their first games for the club this year, Silvagni had 15 touches at 40% DE, whilst Jaksch had 8 touches at 87.5% DE. So in terms of effective disposals, Silvagni had 6, and Jaksch had 7 (he only had 6 effective against West Coast too). Silvagni kicked 1 behind, but spent the whole game up forward/half forward, whilst Jaksch didn't score but spent half the game in defense.

Silvagni made the team after kicking 4, 4 & 2 goals over 3 weeks, but Jaksch didn't get a call up when he went 4, 1 & 4 (with more shots on goal).

I understand the love for a father son. But don't be blinded by his aura, and say hes more deserving of a game purely on form.

Form isn't purely based on statistical output. Attitude, intensity, smarts, training track. This would all be considered. I won't flat out deny that nostalgia might not play a part, but it would be a small part.
KJ has had his work ethic raised by, I believe, SOS, Josh Fraser, Bolton and many of our regular VFL watchers. He drifts in and out of games and his intensity fluctuates. Can't say I've heard anyone say similar about Jack. So, if their statistical outputs are quite similar, it makes sense that the one who has more drive gets the nod first.

 

[slashin_velvet]

You're making a call on 1 game each, at least you seem to be in the first part of your post?
Not exactly a large base, is it?
Granted, 3 games from Jack isn't a large base, but Jaksch has been in the system a number of years and that is a fair base.

I only have one game to go off with Jaksch because he hasn't been given more than 1 senior game to make am impact. In prior years where he's played for us, its been primarily as a defender. If I had a larger base for him, then I'd use it.

In regards to all the other points, I don't doubt that Jaksch has a lot of work to do, and I'm of the opinion that we aren't giving him ample chance to do it. Maybe next game we can make Silvagni fill a hole down back when the game gets going, and the opportunities to score ramp up.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting he was retained this week because he was FS, I suggested he was called up because of it, and skipped Jaksch in the queue. The fact that he was called up for a Collingwood home game, and not the GWS away game tells me everything - then add on the exclusive woolen jumper, and membership drives.

In terms of his kicking ability, his DE across his 3 games is 40% (6 effective touches - worst on ground for DE), 57.1% (4 effective touches - bottom 5) & 50% (6 effective touches - worst on ground). For such a fantastic user of the ball, he seemingly burns it a lot from a statistical perspective. In terms of 1%'s, neither Jack, nor Jaksch had one at all.

Watching him, I agree he provides a fair bit around the ground and his pressure has been good, but he also had a lot of work to do on his decision making and ball use.

 

[1981]

Good watch us finish the season by thumping a few teams.

Bombay, Kalina, India

Sorry I was kidding, you're crazy man.
But, in a good way.

 

[1981]

I only have one game to go off with Jaksch because he hasn't been given more than 1 senior game to make am impact. In prior years where he's played for us, its been primarily as a defender. If I had a larger base for him, then I'd use it.
.

He played forward last year I think and showed signs of being able to contest in the air, quite well actually, BUT didn't hold his marks, and when he got a chance he butchered it by foot. And then there's the GWS games.

That enough of a base?

In regards to all the other points, I don't doubt that Jaksch has a lot of work to do, and I'm of the opinion that we aren't giving him ample chance to do it. .

Probably bec his papers have been stamped by people who know what's going on ever better than us.

Maybe next game we can make Silvagni fill a hole down back when the game gets going, and the opportunities to score ramp up.

.

Too skinny right now.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting he was retained this week because he was FS, I suggested he was called up because of it, and skipped Jaksch in the queue. The fact that he was called up for a Collingwood home game, and not the GWS away game tells me everything - then add on the exclusive woolen jumper, and membership drives.
.

He was caled up bec of dominant displays in the VFL, characterised not just by kicking goals but also second efforts such as chase downs, smothers, tackles etc. I saw this, with my eyes at Preston, did you ????

 

[1981]

In terms of his kicking ability, his DE across his 3 games is 40% (6 effective touches - worst on ground for DE), 57.1% (4 effective touches - bottom 5) & 50% (6 effective touches - worst on ground). For such a fantastic user of the ball, he seemingly burns it a lot from a statistical perspective. In terms of 1%'s, neither Jack, nor Jaksch had one at all.

If you pull out the term 'statistics' you need to understand them.
3 games is not statistically relevant.
As I said earlier, lets see how his efficiency is after 30 games. I have a feeling you won't be complaining about his kicking in time.
Did you miss Bolton early this year when he said how good Jack's kicking is??
I can only assume you missed that.

I think it was Ling who said after Jack's first game, that kick on goal he missed Jack wouldn't have even felt it off the boot given all the lead up and hype to his first game and first shot at goal.
Did you take these things into consideration?
There are external elements that come into play.

 

[1981]

I only have one game to go off with Jaksch because he hasn't been given more than 1 senior game to make am impact. In prior years where he's played for us, its been primarily as a defender. If I had a larger base for him, then I'd use it.

In regards to all the other points, I don't doubt that Jaksch has a lot of work to do, and I'm of the opinion that we aren't giving him ample chance to do it. Maybe next game we can make Silvagni fill a hole down back when the game gets going, and the opportunities to score ramp up.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting he was retained this week because he was FS, I suggested he was called up because of it, and skipped Jaksch in the queue. The fact that he was called up for a Collingwood home game, and not the GWS away game tells me everything - then add on the exclusive woolen jumper, and membership drives.

In terms of his kicking ability, his DE across his 3 games is 40% (6 effective touches - worst on ground for DE), 57.1% (4 effective touches - bottom 5) & 50% (6 effective touches - worst on ground). For such a fantastic user of the ball, he seemingly burns it a lot from a statistical perspective. In terms of 1%'s, neither Jack, nor Jaksch had one at all.

Watching him, I agree he provides a fair bit around the ground and his pressure has been good, but he also had a lot of work to do on his decision making and ball use.

Did you go to the VFL game a month or so ago at Ikon , in the wet Jack kicked 3 in the first term?
He showed clean hands in the wet all day, and desperation like no other player on the ground.

Where you there?

 

[MileHigh]

If you think Silvagni was only picked due to form, and not other factors, then I have to strongly disagree (maybe its a post for the unpopular opinions thread).

He kicked bags of 4, 4 and 2 and was a hell of a lot more impact full from what I hear. I hear what you're saying that maybe cas of his name and interest that he got the nod ahead of Jaksch, but Silvagni has already shown us in 3 games that it was no fluke.

 

[slashin_velvet]

???? what has that got to do with being a father son or being blinded by his aura?

where did i say jaksch wasn't?

If you follow the posts you were responding to, I was pointing out that Jaksch was a bit unlucky that Silvagni jumped him in the queue after he put together some really good football in the level below. You responded that Silvagni got called up because he is the future, which suggests Jaksch wasn't called up because he isn't the future (it was deductive reasoning on my behalf, and apologies if that's not your thoughts).

I'm not having a dig at you, I'm just highlighting that in my opinion Silvagni's promotion to the seniors was not solely due to his football performance. I'm of the opinion that his form warranted a callup similar to Jaksch, but SOS got priority for the Collingwood game as the club was looking at more than just on field need.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

In terms of his kicking ability, his DE across his 3 games is 40% (6 effective touches - worst on ground for DE), 57.1% (4 effective touches - bottom 5) & 50% (6 effective touches - worst on ground). For such a fantastic user of the ball, he seemingly burns it a lot from a statistical perspective. In terms of 1%'s, neither Jack, nor Jaksch had one at all.

This is where stats lie. All forwards have average DE, especially if the majority of their kicks are at goal. If not at goal they are usually hard passes to make. Defenders have excellent DE as they are always kicking across goal under no pressure to an unmarked player.

One thing is for sure, in his first three games, Jack has shown a whole lot more than Jaksch has in three years.

 

[slashin_velvet]

He kicked bags of 4, 4 and 2 and was a hell of a lot more impact full from what I hear. I hear what you're saying that maybe cas of his name and interest that he got the nod ahead of Jaksch, but Silvagni has already shown us in 3 games that it was no fluke.

If you compare it to jaksch's run prior to that, he kicked 4,1,4. When Jaksch finally played a senior game, there wasn't a special jumper in his name. Or a special video about his inclusion.

Call me a cynic, but there was more to Jacks selection than just football form.

 

[Kernafides]

I can only go by a snippet on the Journey doc and Fraser's reviews but I think we want KJ to work harder and be more aggressive. Seems to be more mental with KJ. No doubt that is why Cas came in this week because yes while he hasn't hit the scoreboard of late, he is aggressive, competes and brings the ball to ground. I forgive his frustration because as our sole forward target it is unfair to expect him to out cluck 3 defenders week in week out with poor delivery.

 

[Azul]

Jaksch is a 14 game veteran. Maybe he'll only show his potential after 50 games. Although at age 21, I can't see the MC having the patience.

If we were confident enough to give him a block of 22 games next year then who knows but unless we trade Everitt and Casboult, retire Jamison and Walker and pay out Jones, I just can't see him being a fixture.

If the knocks on him are hunger and intensity, he hasn't been able to cultivate that in 4 years of NEAFL/VFL, sadly.

 

[1981]

As much as I hate to see kids get belted, I am glad Bolts is playing the kids as early as possible, because I firmly believe we have a really good core of young talent coming through and I advocate playing them together so that they can build their own comraderie, and leadership.

Weitering, Curnow, Cripps, Silvagni, Docherty, Plowman, Boekhorst, Sumner, Byrne (inj), etc.

What these boys grow, TOGETHER.

 

[1981]

Jaksch is a 14 game veteran. Maybe he'll only show his potential after 50 games. Although at age 21, I can't see the MC having the patience.

If we were confident enough to give him a block of 22 games next year then who knows but unless we trade Everitt and Casboult, retire Jamison and Walker and pay out Jones, I just can't see him being a fixture.

If the knocks on him are hunger and intensity, he hasn't been able to cultivate that in 4 years of NEAFL/VFL, sadly.

I think the last line says it all, most likely, and agree sadly.

 

[1981]

If you compare it to jaksch's run prior to that, he kicked 4,1,4. When Jaksch finally played a senior game, there wasn't a special jumper in his name. Or a special video about his inclusion.

Call me a cynic, but there was more to Jacks selection than just football form.

Jack was in our best 7 players in his first game.

How did Jaksch fare?

Oh, sorry, Jaksch's output was because he didn't have a famous daddy, right??

Jack's first game 2016 : 76 pts. No.1 for goal involvement.
Jaksch's first game 2016 : 38 pts.

Sorry, it is OK to use one game , right? (you tend to do this).

 

[1981]

He kicked bags of 4, 4 and 2 and was a hell of a lot more impact full from what I hear. I hear what you're saying that maybe cas of his name and interest that he got the nod ahead of Jaksch, but Silvagni has already shown us in 3 games that it was no fluke.

Maybe Stephen ought to take some credit.

Interesting to hear Andrew Gaze talk recently about being a son of a famous player.
He said in his view many FSs will actually try harder, bec of the pressure to perform (as their dad's were famous sportsmen).

If that is the case, and is why Jack is such a good prospect, then so be it.,

Make more kids Stephen and Jo !!!

 

[1981]

Thing is, I actually like Jaksch.
I have seen him take a lot of good marks, or at worst get very good elevation in packs, and be in a spot to take a great mark.

But he hasn't held onto enough of them, and when he gets them he often kicks poorly.

CLose enough but no cigar, not yet anyhow.

Personally I hope they keep him on the list, bec he is still young, but they (the MC) know a lot more than I, and if work ethic is the issue, I agree it is hard to see that changing.

 

[1981]

Only thing I will concede to Slashin, is it was a bit suss Jack's first game was against Coll.
But, if the club feel that will bring more peeps through the gate, then so be it - it is a business after all.
And, I firmly believe Jack's form and talent more than warranted selection, in fact I believe he should have played even earlier.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

KJ doesn't appear to be rated internally, is still stick thin and lacks the fundamental desire to succeed at AFL level. Was also completely lost up forward last week, and given that was the role that was assigned to him, he was pretty disappointing.

Just a terribly ineffectual footballer, the opposition just ignored him. Was at the game, and was amazed at how little presence he has. Absolutely zero threat. Didn't appear to be working too hard to get into it either. I have a feeling that may be the last we see of him.

 

[Jimmae]

The Blues are ranked 18th (130.6) in the competition for contested possessions while the Swans sit first (164.0)

Doesn't mean much beyond how each team approaches the stoppages. We try and space things out, hold our ground and win it clean to feed it outside without much regard for defense due to our counter-attacking structure (stupidly so IMO), while Sydney are set up to intelligently block for each other to release the football, but are otherwise happy to scrum it a bit to wear the opposition down.

They compartmentalise this intelligently as well, such that their elite runners won't get their hands dirty too often (eg. McVeigh).

Hawthorn's contested numbers aren't that great, but they get good clearance stance. Need to understand the system a little to provide some context if you're just going to drop one stat down for discussion.

 

[footyfan1978]

if work ethic is the issue, I agree it is hard to see that changing.

This is the crux of it I believe. At the moment that seems to be the feeling of he just has not got to the level required for an AFL listed player.
He still has time to turn it around but would want to make every post a winner from here on.

 

[guru1]

Disappointing that Jaksch is not getting another run. I think we needed to play him for the rest of the year and see if he is worth persissting with. But by dropping him I think that they have already made up there mind, he won't be ther next year. This really makes a bust of that whole trade, which is a shame as Whiley might be in the same boat.