Autopsy Rd 19 - Wait ... wut? Did we win? We s**t it in!

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I would say, re: Dow and Cunners speed, is even though Cunners might have Dow covered overall, I think Dow's shown more willingness to use his explosion. Cunners just haven't seen enough of it for whatever reason. I suppose Dow has more natural aggression.

I have my fingers crossed for Cuningham who was finding himself in one week and out the next situation earlier on in the year and now is out for the rest of the year - I suspect he was never 100% fit like a few others. Cuningham showed enough for supporters to be excited about his potential - a pity he too is in the 'wasted' or 'lost' year of development category.
 
Zone systems rely on team work and understanding as well as the basics of a level of fitness and skill for between the arcs players ( midfielders) - Carlton hasn't had the benefit of continuity or structure or the basics - so Bolton and his coaches are in a difficult place : do you carry on persisting and hoping things click with a view to the 'future' or do you go man on man all the time - kind of a no win situation against better sides really.
 
Oct 4, 2015
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Perhaps it's become more complex since his first year or two, but we did the defensive zone VERY well early under Bolton. I wonder if Docherty is a big reason for it working. He is very intelligent, strategy-minded and a director on the field. Perhaps it's all a bit too much for the team to do consistently well without his input this year.

Doc being out is a significant factor. Adding Doc, Willo and Byrne to our backline will help stem the flow, but even those 3 will take time to gel and build some cohesion. Been a very long time since they've played alongside each other.

The other being the more attacking game plan. Moving the ball on quicker generates more risk of turn overs which is what we've largely seen this year. Constantly turning it over puts the back line under more pressure and hence they struggle. Look at Jones and Rowe at times looking lost at sea back there. Their weaknesses got exposed more often.

Add the fact that Marchbank was out/not at his best for most of the year and it compounded our issues.

The older brigade had a worse season this year compared to last. Can't see that improving next year as they'll all be another year older. Maybe some will have better years but age catches up to everyone.

We lost Gibbs which was a huge loss for our midfield, but then Murphy has also been out injured or played injured leaving Cripps as the only guy to carry the load in the middle with Ed doing an admirable job to help out.

When the midfield is in trouble, you get scored against heavily. Minimal pressure on the opposition ball carriers, allowing them to drive i50 at ease. Look what happened against Brisbane.

Looking at who's available this year, we're going to struggle to find that quality, ready made mid or two we're looking for. Serious doubt Gaff will join us, in fact I'd say extremely low chance. Who can we target? Brayshaw has re-signed, Wallis or GHS would be handy but not likely to take us forward. It really is lean this year in terms of out of contract mids in the age bracket we're looking for.

This is why I'm concerned going in to next year. Hopefully Murphy can have a good year but relying on an injury prone 32 year old to be a main play maker is not going to cut it at AFL level. Ed will do a serviceable job again, I'm confident of that. Cripps should have another great year. But then, we are shallow. We rely heavily on Kennedy (same draft as Cuningham), Fisher, SPS, LOB and Dow. All second and third year players. We are going to continue to struggle big time until we fix that midfield. That's why I'm hoping we can add Shiel and Cerra during next year's trade period.
 

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Oct 4, 2015
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Zone systems rely on team work and understanding as well as the basics of a level of fitness and skill for between the arcs players ( midfielders) - Carlton hasn't had the benefit of continuity or structure or the basics - so Bolton and his coaches are in a difficult place : do you carry on persisting and hoping things click with a view to the 'future' or do you go man on man all the time - kind of a no win situation against better sides really.

This zone also involves closest player picks up the opponent which has lead to very unfavourable match ups and confusion.

I'll just add this is where Jones gets really exposed too. He ball watches and the man he's meant to be guarding just goes for a stroll on his own in their forward line and when we turn it over, no one is there to stop them taking uncontested marks.
 

Blue since 72

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Have heard from friend of a friend who was involved in our fitness department that Bolts' game plan is incredibly complicated. Something he might need to learn to simplify as he matures in the job.

This concerns me if correct. If we're seeing better results when the players "appear" at least to play with more freedom and less structure then the game plan needs to be looked at. Stubbornly trying to fit a round peg into a square hole would be very worrying.
 

Blue since 72

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Perhaps it's become more complex since his first year or two, but we did the defensive zone VERY well early under Bolton. I wonder if Docherty is a big reason for it working. He is very intelligent, strategy-minded and a director on the field. Perhaps it's all a bit too much for the team to do consistently well without his input this year.

Agree his on field direction could be a reason but if this is the case this is a massive issue. One player shouldn't hold the defensive structure fortunes of the team in his hands.
 
Aug 22, 2014
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This concerns me if correct. If we're seeing better results when the players "appear" at least to play with more freedom and less structure then the game plan needs to be looked at. Stubbornly trying to fit a round peg into a square hole would be very worrying.

I'm not concerned if we're setting the bar high. Expecting a bunch of young kids and cobbled-together opposition extras to gel and enact a complex game plan in their first few years is unrealistic, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect them to be able to learn to do so over time. AFL has become a much more complex sport, and while you can look at Richmond and say "they're playing simple, pressure football", they've also had years as a collective group to develop different set-ups and strategies and responses that can be used when the situation calls for it.

Make it complex, expect mistakes.
Learn from mistakes, get better.
In 5 years the complex becomes instinct.
 
May 1, 2016
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Agree his on field direction could be a reason but if this is the case this is a massive issue. One player shouldn't hold the defensive structure fortunes of the team in his hands.
Except it isn't as though it's just one player's absence, is it?

Our entire back 6 has been changed in and out. Weitering's had injury problems. Marchbank's been injured. Plowman's been injured. Byrne's been injured. Rowe's been injured. Alex Silvagni's been injured (and Jack's been sent down back, to cover for a lack of available personnel). Jones has been the constant, and now he's injured too. We've had to jerry-rig our back six for most of the season, and we've been forced to use players down there that haven't trained to play back there for longer than a month or two, robbing Peter to pay Paul (Murphy, SPS, Lamb, Jack).

This has left our midfield/forward flank short of players, and has deprived us of defensive running.

We have reset our back six after every single injury to a pivotal player in there, only to have someone new go down. Is it any wonder that the backline hasn't functioned at the level we have come to expect over the last two years?
 

Blue since 72

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I'm not concerned if we're setting the bar high. Expecting a bunch of young kids and cobbled-together opposition extras to gel and enact a complex game plan in their first few years is unrealistic, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect them to be able to learn to do so over time. AFL has become a much more complex sport, and while you can look at Richmond and say "they're playing simple, pressure football", they've also had years as a collective group to develop different set-ups and strategies and responses that can be used when the situation calls for it.

Make it complex, expect mistakes.
Learn from mistakes, get better.
In 5 years the complex becomes instinct.

Yeah fair enough, just not a fan of the overly complex, particularly in a fast paced largely instinctive game like footy.

Not a lot of time out there these days to get it right (you know... go with your first decision as it's more likely the best one and the game is so quick now), no need to over burden with too much considered decision making as well although your time and playing together points are certainly valid.
 

Blue since 72

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Except it isn't as though it's just one player's absence, is it?

Our entire back 6 has been changed in and out. Weitering's had injury problems. Marchbank's been injured. Plowman's been injured. Byrne's been injured. Rowe's been injured. Alex Silvagni's been injured (and Jack's been sent down back, to cover for a lack of available personnel). Jones has been the constant, and now he's injured too. We've had to jerry-rig our back six for most of the season, and we've been forced to use players down there that haven't trained to play back there for longer than a month or two, robbing Peter to pay Paul (Murphy, SPS, Lamb, Jack).

This has left our midfield/forward flank short of players, and has deprived us of defensive running.

We have reset our back six after every single injury to a pivotal player in there, only to have someone new go down. Is it any wonder that the backline hasn't functioned at the level we have come to expect over the last two years?

Yes agree with all of that. Was responding to a post suggesting Doc was perhaps a more important loss than he should have been.

Absolutely he left a large hole that we probably wouldn't have covered completely even without our subsequent injuries but agree with you that our break down down back is more to do with wholesale injuries rather than just Doc.
 
Aug 22, 2014
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Yeah fair enough, just not a fan of the overly complex, particularly in a fast paced largely instinctive game like footy.

Not a lot of time out there these days to get it right (you know... go with your first decision as it's more likely the best one and the game is so quick now), no need to over burden with too much considered decision making as well although your time and playing together points are certainly valid.

Agree completely. And at the moment, it's considered decision making - but the aim is for it to become instinctive behaviours based on trust in your teammates to be where they're supposed to be. When is kicking blind not kicking blind? When you know that there's always going to be a teammate ready for the "blind kick" to that spot ;)

Takes time to get there, and probably frustrates the players as much as it does us when it's not working properly yet, but the earlier we start it the sooner the payoff.
 

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Blue and Blue

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Are you the bloke that sits behind me each week, and yells "kick it long" every time we have the ball?
No, I am a merely a bloke that has a different opinion. I think its the right one as much as you think yours is and thats life. As for kicking it long. I like to think that when this side has been playing together long enough and the style develops from that experience...learning what each other does and things becoming second nature they will kick it long...and kick it short...and whatever the occasion demands.
 
Except it isn't as though it's just one player's absence, is it?

Our entire back 6 has been changed in and out. Weitering's had injury problems. Marchbank's been injured. Plowman's been injured. Byrne's been injured. Rowe's been injured. Alex Silvagni's been injured (and Jack's been sent down back, to cover for a lack of available personnel). Jones has been the constant, and now he's injured too. We've had to jerry-rig our back six for most of the season, and we've been forced to use players down there that haven't trained to play back there for longer than a month or two, robbing Peter to pay Paul (Murphy, SPS, Lamb, Jack).

This has left our midfield/forward flank short of players, and has deprived us of defensive running.

We have reset our back six after every single injury to a pivotal player in there, only to have someone new go down. Is it any wonder that the backline hasn't functioned at the level we have come to expect over the last two years?

Get out! Too much sense in this post!
 
Yes agree with all of that. Was responding to a post suggesting Doc was perhaps a more important loss than he should have been.

Absolutely he left a large hole that we probably wouldn't have covered completely even without our subsequent injuries but agree with you that our break down down back is more to do with wholesale injuries rather than just Doc.


Sure take an AA player out of a team line … easy peasy to replace …….
 

F_therest

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Oct 3, 2013
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Perhaps it's become more complex since his first year or two, but we did the defensive zone VERY well early under Bolton. I wonder if Docherty is a big reason for it working. He is very intelligent, strategy-minded and a director on the field. Perhaps it's all a bit too much for the team to do consistently well without his input this year.

Doc would be a big part of the defensive zone failure this year, but in addition to that is all our other injuries meaning it's been a rotating door making it difficult to gain cohesion, and also we've changed the game plan which has exposed our defence more.
 

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