Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[JustaBattler]

100%.

We rarely have the outside players in the right positions to create a handball chain away from the contest which would at least allow the end player to kick to someone further up the ground who is hopefully running into space.

The one time Saad got it off George and we got a snag is way too rare from this team these days, it's just win the ball off the stoppage and bang it forward.

Voss talks about taking our opportunities in front of goal which is true but it's also about taking those opportunities in general play, making a better decision and executing.

The bang it on the boot has infected the entire team and the coaching staff need to do something about it pronto.

I think that the coaches can ll be criticised for the team not evidencing basic well drilled team play as above - which is why I hav question marks about Voss...but then I look at th eplayers and ask myself is it the coaches or is it the players...and I end up going round and round in circles in my head...

which isnt good for my putting - I had 4 three puts on Satday FFS!!

 

[Soapy V]

Look, I have seen enough of your work on here to know that whatever I say here (other than "OK Arrow you are correct") will not be accepted by you but if Sicily's opponent goes of a high lead (by which I assume you mean lead up between half forward and the wing) the only thing that will happen is Sicily will let them go and mark their kick as it comes into FWD50.

But sure - we probably should have gone with Fogarty.

Welcome to the Club

 

[Stamos]

I think that the coaches can ll be criticised for the team not evidencing basic well drilled team play as above - which is why I hav question marks about Voss...but then I look at th eplayers and ask myself is it the coaches or is it the players...and I end up going round and round in circles in my head...

We do not do the fundamentals well, and our system does not work efficiently. That's coaching.
If we were doing that to a decent standard and failing, then you can focus on the players.

The fitness/form of key players certainly doesn't help, but that's not nearly the biggest issue from the first 2 weeks.

 

[Soapy V]

I think that the coaches can ll be criticised for the team not evidencing basic well drilled team play as above - which is why I hav question marks about Voss...but then I look at th eplayers and ask myself is it the coaches or is it the players...and I end up going round and round in circles in my head...

which isnt good for my putting - I had 4 three puts on Satday FFS!!

Hate three putting

 

[Blue since 72]

I think that the coaches can ll be criticised for the team not evidencing basic well drilled team play as above - which is why I hav question marks about Voss...but then I look at th eplayers and ask myself is it the coaches or is it the players...and I end up going round and round in circles in my head...

which isnt good for my putting - I had 4 three puts on Satday FFS!!

Yeah I think a lot of us are wondering just how much of this is on the players vs the coaches.

I'd be shocked if there was a direct instruction to "if you get the ball off a stoppage just bang it forward" but is there direct instruction to create contests whenever you can.

Why do we very rarely seem to have clean ball movement these days, are the players really that poorly skilled both physically and mentally? I've seen a lot of players in my time who look a million bucks at training but go to water under a bit of pressure in game, are we that team?

Guys like Newman are a big loss because he has both those attributes but jeez one player out and ....... I hope not.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

You can't teach that kick from D'Ambrosio, a lefty with that penetration and direction...

It's called recruiting...

A handball came to him first and then the deft kick...

He’s got an amazing peg hasn’t he

 

[Gointocarlton]

Ultimately, Young positioning was poor

I thought he tried to take the front position which is was the right thing to do against that muppet.

 

[goreds]

He has the personal confidence to try it - not that he had any option though.

I would bet London to a brick he doesn't make that kick 8/10 times under the same conditions.

At the end of the day their drilled structure and player positioning allowed him to have the confidence to 1. kick in that direction and 2. have a player ready to at least make a contest there.

Kudos to the Carlton defensive effort to force a degree of difficulty kick like that should also be acknowledged - whilst at the same time - where was the Carlton cover for the only kick that was going to be tried - in order to at least halve the contest/mark?

Disagree, D'Ambrosio has the ability to do this, nothing to do with confidence.

He does it week in, week out. His kick outs went coast to coast in round 1.

What's the point in having an accumulator (Ollie type) if they don't A. kick goals or B. deliver with precision?

The space was left by the Hawks for that kick, yes, but it was for a boundary line kick. He took it to the next level and absolutely speared the pass 45+ meters at speed. You can't stop that!

That's why it's called recruiting, find someone that does it differently or better than the rest...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Been saying since last year, Walsh needs to play on the wing. The new htb interpretation + back issues are stifling his ability to play football. Every possession is rushed, he is better than that... free him up from that congestion, take advantage of his running capacity and natural football talent.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Jed Lamb Types would have had Sicily outmarking them at every turn. You needed someone who could compete with Sicily in the air, and Kemp's history as a defender made him the perfect candidate

The irony being...

 

[JustaBattler]

Disagree, D'Ambrosio has the ability to do this, nothing to do with confidence.

He does it week in, week out. His kick outs went coast to coast in round 1.

What's the point in having an accumulator (Ollie type) if they don't A. kick goals or B. deliver with precision?

The space was left by the Hawks for that kick, yes, but it was for a boundary line kick. He took it to the next level and absolutely speared the pass 45+ meters at speed. You can't stop that!

That's why it's called recruiting, find someone that does it differently or better than the rest...

He has to have the confidence (under pressure) to know where he can try and kick to and the confidence to know that there will be a Hawthorn player there to at least compete - individual onfidnce is based on having experienced successful execution of skill AND having experienced successful execution of skill to a team mate(s) who are properly posiitoned to receive...

It takes seconds for the ball to get to the receiving player - at least 3 seconds at that distance- most AFl players can run 15-20 metes in that time - where was the Carlton defensive cover once that ball was launched from that angle to that side of teh field where a left footer under pressure could kick to?

Dont really understand what exactly you are disagreeing with...tbh...

Yes he has the ability to execute that kick - but to do it in match conditions is another thing - for Carlton NOT to be able to cover for that. is an example of poor defensive execution and cover....

it is how they won the game on the outside down the boundary...

That is not to say I think Carlton's recruiting has been good - far from it....far far from it.

 

[Stamos]

Disagree, D'Ambrosio has the ability to do this, nothing to do with confidence.

He does it week in, week out. His kick outs went coast to coast in round 1.

What's the point in having an accumulator (Ollie type) if they don't A. kick goals or B. deliver with precision?

The space was left by the Hawks for that kick, yes, but it was for a boundary line kick. He took it to the next level and absolutely speared the pass 45+ meters at speed. You can't stop that!

That's why it's called recruiting, find someone that does it differently or better than the rest...

You would have thought that * would have been able to use that kicking?

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

The irony being...

Sicily took a season low 5 marks against us, 2 of them in the Hawks forward 50 after he was moved off Kemp. So at most he out marked Kemp on 3 occasions.

Sicily also had a season low Intercepts against us (also 5) but a season high in 1%ers (11 with his next highest being 5) which would indicate he was forced spoil far more often than usual

 

[goreds]

He has to have the confidence (under pressure) to know where he can try and kick to and the confidence to know that there will be a Hawthorn player there to at least compete - individual onfidnce is based on having experienced successful execution of skill AND having experienced successful execution of skill to a team mate(s) who are properly posiitoned to receive...

It takes seconds for the ball to get to the receiving player - at least 3 seconds at that distance- most AFl players can run 15-20 metes in that time - where was the Carlton defensive cover once that ball was launched from that angle to that side of teh field where a left footer under pressure could kick to?

Dont really understand what exactly you are disagreeing with...tbh...

Yes he has the ability to execute that kick - but to do it in match conditions is another thing - for Carlton NOT to be able to cover for that. is an example of poor defensive execution and cover....

it is how they won the game on the outside down the boundary...

That is not to say I think Carlton's recruiting has been good - far from it....far far from it.

I'm disagreeing with the 'confidence' bit of the discussion...

It's pure ability...

When Charlie arcs around on his right and drills it long at goal or to H, he does it because he CAN (ability to do it) not because he has confidence.

You can encourage confidence in a person, you CANNOT teach/encourage someone how to kick at the age of 20+...

This discussion is purely about talent and needs for our once great club, how the hell do we keep drafting good ordinary players who accumulate but can't kick for shit??? Seriously??

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Lovely.

Re Walsh.

When we were at at best in 23, Walsh was that link play in transition and forward of contest mid. Remember when he regularly got coaches votes!

As a team we have reduced our handball forward game and Walsh just isn't the same player. Injuries seem to have really impacted him. Unfortunately, structurally we don't have a like for like replacement and it's hurting the team.

Perhaps we need to a bit creative, push cerra and Walsh more outside, rotating regularly so they dont gas out too quickly, with some minutes for Williams and Ollie. We can then use Lord more inside.

The other thing I noticed on the weekend is we didn't use our wings anywhere near as often as we have in the past. We play quite narrow.

It’s not like we don’t have inside mids!

Cripps & Hewy inside

Cerra & Walsh outside. Runners in support.

It ain’t rocket freaking science!

Jeeeeeeeeezzzzz!

 

[Stamos]

Coaches' Votes

Carlton v Hawthorn​

9 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
9 Josh Battle (HAW)
6 Tom De Koning (CARL)
2 Massimo D'Ambrosio (HAW)
2 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
1 George Hewett (CARL)
1 Mabior Chol (HAW)

 

[Arr0w]

Coaches' Votes

Carlton v Hawthorn​

9 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
9 Josh Battle (HAW)
6 Tom De Koning (CARL)
2 Massimo D'Ambrosio (HAW)
2 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
1 George Hewett (CARL)
1 Mabior Chol (HAW)

No howlers in that lot

 

[Soapy V]

Coaches' Votes

Carlton v Hawthorn​

9 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
9 Josh Battle (HAW)
6 Tom De Koning (CARL)
2 Massimo D'Ambrosio (HAW)
2 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
1 George Hewett (CARL)
1 Mabior Chol (HAW)

Shows how far off we were

 

[Its an amigo!]

Jed Lamb Types would have had Sicily outmarking them at every turn. You needed someone who could compete with Sicily in the air, and Kemp's history as a defender made him the perfect candidate

I actually remember a game where Jed Lamb did play on Sicily and Lamb did a great job.

 

[Blue Reaper]

And there it is!

Most of the running teams I’ve watched look fluid from D50 - using the ball by hand to players in a better position.

Pleased to hear we have players in a better position - that’s a step ahead of where I thought we were.

Looked to me like we were so consumed with defence, that we’d forsaken running to support.

In - creative handball.
Out - dump kicking.

We should bring Diesel back to the club, one of the club’s most prolific handballers … Oh wait.

 

[SurreyBlue]

No howlers in that lot

Flea wasn’t voting….

 

[Garters]

Lovely.

Re Walsh.

When we were at at best in 23, Walsh was that link play in transition and forward of contest mid. Remember when he regularly got coaches votes!

As a team we have reduced our handball forward game and Walsh just isn't the same player. Injuries seem to have really impacted him. Unfortunately, structurally we don't have a like for like replacement and it's hurting the team.

Perhaps we need to a bit creative, push cerra and Walsh more outside, rotating regularly so they dont gas out too quickly, with some minutes for Williams and Ollie. We can then use Lord more inside.

The other thing I noticed on the weekend is we didn't use our wings anywhere near as often as we have in the past. We play quite narrow.

Walsh is at his damaging best when he plays more outside than in. But he looks very slow and has put on quite a bit of muscle. I think the back injury has severely impeded what he was known for 2023. Whether it's permanent or not time will tell.
There was interesting footage on first crack of players refusing to use the release handball out wide. Was pretty damning, we had all the runners doing their thing in support only to be burnt by the ball carrier not lifting their eyes and looking laterally only to dump kick long to a contest and then watch it sling shot back over their heads for a goal on turnover. Dumb, lazy football.

Is that coaching or a mentally lazy playing group that can't follow instruction. I don't know but needs to turn around asap if we are to salvage the season.

 

[Stamos]

For what it's worth, Jake Niall and Micheal Gleeson on The Age Realfooty podcast talked about us getting screwed by the umps.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

I actually remember a game where Jed Lamb did play on Sicily and Lamb did a great job.

Unfortunately last weeks game didn't take place in 2018

 

[katmanblue]

You don't need height to use your body to nullify an interceptor

Best way to keep a Sicily at bay is to play through his opponent, who should be on a high lead

You mean have them move into space and target that player?

You know we're more likely to wait until they're in space then kick it straight over their head to the trailing defender.

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