Autopsy Rd 23 An Inglorious End to 2019 - Bring On The Silly Season

Who played well for the Blues in Round 23 at the Cattery?


  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .

blue healer

Premiership Player
Apr 25, 2010
4,989
6,573
wagga wagga
AFL Club
Carlton
These are your comments. All Arr0w is saying, and he's been harping on this point for about two years, is that Brisbane are a year ahead of us in assembling their list. See also, https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/04/11/the-stats-that-prove-you-cant-compare-brisbane-and-carlton/ . Comprehend the numbers.

Given that
  1. Brisbane are a year ahead of Carlton;
  2. Carlton won more games in the equivalent year; and
  3. Carlton did so without a significant contingent of best 22 players available,
It is more than reasonable, to suggest that Carlton are ahead of Brisbane on this basis.
Well Brisbane are playing off today for first spot and unless they lose by over 100 points will finish no lower than second.

To suggest that we are ahead of their rebuild suggests that we should be in this same position this time next year.

This is an empty argument, it is just ridiculous to compare list rebuilds.

The only thing I think we can take out of Brisbane's success this year is that we have been shown by them what is possible if we can put the icing on the cake at the trade table.

If, as many think, we finish mid table next year and then sneak into the eight in 2021, will we then be arguing that we are a year behind Brisbane's rebuild?

From what I can see they have Collingwoods first this year and GCS second which would make me think that their chances of further enhancing their list this year are just a bit enviable given we go from Adelaides first to our own third which means even our trade collateral is lower than theirs.
 

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Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
16,552
39,361
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
What difference does it make? They have moved on the same amount of best 22 players hence why they have as many new players as we do playing. The whole reason you turn over a list is to bring in best 22 players. Those other teams have done that to the same extent we have.
You are just talking about a bottoming out rebuild vs a rebuild without bottoming out.
We are on two different tangents

If we were in a flag window, we wouldn't of traded out the likes of Gibbs, 2E, Hendo etc

The likes of the Cats target more quality mature players, after they rebuilt their side, as we are about to undertake
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
3,286
7,821
the wilderness
AFL Club
Carlton
Well Brisbane are playing off today for first spot and unless they lose by over 100 points will finish no lower than second.

To suggest that we are ahead of their rebuild suggests that we should be in this same position this time next year.

This is an empty argument, it is just ridiculous to compare list rebuilds.

The only thing I think we can take out of Brisbane's success this year is that we have been shown by them what is possible if we can put the icing on the cake at the trade table.

If, as many think, we finish mid table next year and then sneak into the eight in 2021, will we then be arguing that we are a year behind Brisbane's rebuild?

From what I can see they have Collingwoods first this year and GCS second which would make me think that their chances of further enhancing their list this year are just a bit enviable given we go from Adelaides first to our own third which means even our trade collateral is lower than theirs.
Brisbane needed everything to go their way for this year to transpire as it has - I think the point of the comparison is to push back against some of the short term catastrophising that goes on after a poor loss and to show that, with all the stars aligning, anything is possible.

The point on trade collateral is annoying, especially since we should've been given a priority pick last year. On the bright side, we went harder in what appears to have been a much stronger draft last year, and should be able to get more value for future picks given the respective ladder positions.
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
10,494
9,956
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
You’re in another universe. A couple of kids learning how to play at the highest level. Conditional is such a nasty inference for any player and certainly not deserving of these two.

I refuse to let your sour puss view of the world dampen my enthusiasm for the future.
Kids aren't undroppable and fisher appeared to be undroppable as he was getting games when he needed to be dropped. Not saying they won't be good players but need to learn some lessons and we missed an opportunity to give fisher a big lesson.

And I don't know why my opinion would have any effect on your life going forward but you keep tagging me or mentioning me in your posts. Weird way to not let it effect you haha

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk
 

BIuebagger

All Australian
Oct 3, 2017
719
2,458
AFL Club
Carlton
- Weiters absolutely killed Hawkins, and it was glorious.
- Walsh is amazing. And this is only his baseline, next year will be even better. Lock for the RS. He is going to be an absolute hero and household name within the history of our club.
- Murphy, Cripps and Ed battled all day and did pretty well I thought in the stoppages. Hope Ed is okay.
- Had no answer to them dropping back a spare number and our usage entering 50 didn’t help that. Blicavs or Stewart kept picking them off. Weather was a factor but thought we would have been more mindful of that.

The weather was absolutely shocking and I commend all of us who sat through that in the pouring rain and that wind. Was horrible. No one should be deterred from what we’ve achieved in this second half of the season. Teague and the boys have done a fantastic job.

Time for silly season, let’s go grab and sign the players that are of quality and of need in the trade period, have a big pre season and come into 2020 showing that we have finally arrived and woken from our long long slumber.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Premiership Player
Apr 20, 2006
4,408
4,520
AFL Club
Carlton
We are on two different tangents

If we were in a flag window, we wouldn't of traded out the likes of Gibbs, 2E, Hendo etc

The likes of the Cats target more quality mature players, after they rebuilt their side, as we are about to undertake
That’s the thing though it’s obvious when our rebuild started 2015, in that time they have rebuilt their side to the same extent we have. You can’t say a team hasn’t rebuilt when they have brought in the same amount of best 22 players as we have just because they done it in a different fashion. It sounds a lot more like you’re talking about bottoming out not rebuilding.
 

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
7,873
14,935
AFL Club
Carlton
The losses to Richmond & Geelong highlighted the gap between Carlton & the top teams. Geelong toyed with us yesterday, and the size difference and body shapes were clearly evident. That will change next year. We need Coniglio, and another small crumbing forward. We need to get Harry playing on the ball and Kreuzer resting in the forward line b/c he has a good pair of hands and will always be a threat in the forward line.

As for Geelong they are the ultimate flat track bullies. I would not be surprised if they went out in straight sets.
Add WC to the list.

Cast your mind back to 2011, when we were going fairly well. We beat Sydney twice that year, at home and away, but while we beat them I could well see the precise same gameplan/goals that won them a flag 2 seasons later; they needed to get more bulk around the ball (either via building existing players up, as they did, or by trading them in) to match our quality and mature midfield, and they needed to continue to acquire players to complement what they already had.

WC and Geelong (and Richmond, but to a lesser degree) all kept us at arms length, beating up on us around the ball and using our clearances to feed their intercept games, and all for different ends. What I want is for us to improve our stoppage coaching (and our list depth and quality through the middle, to complement the work done by the coaches) to create clean clearances, or at the very least avenues towards clear extraction, and strategies to clear out the forward flanks to allow our talls to run and leap at the ball.

We can lower the eyes and we can go long to marking targets, but we need to have systems in place to give our talls opportunity. There is a difference between our long kicks down the line against sides like St Kilda, WB, Freo, and our long bombs to Vlaustin, McGovern (and Barrass, and Shepard) and Stewart.
 

Robbo's my hero

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 6, 2007
12,616
21,781
Sunbury
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Sunderland,Pelicans, LA Kings
Kids aren't undroppable and fisher appeared to be undroppable as he was getting games when he needed to be dropped. Not saying they won't be good players but need to learn some lessons and we missed an opportunity to give fisher a big lesson.

And I don't know why my opinion would have any effect on your life going forward but you keep tagging me or mentioning me in your posts. Weird way to not let it effect you haha

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk
You’re not that important Frump!
 

slashin_velvet

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 5, 2011
6,625
10,310
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys, STL Blues
So whos is to blame when we win the stoppages. You know it just might be the players and not the coaches.
If we're going down that path, why did we sack Bolton and replace him with Teague.

I've been a Barker defender for a long time, but I think it's time he moved on.
 

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Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
16,552
39,361
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
That’s the thing though it’s obvious when our rebuild started 2015, in that time they have rebuilt their side to the same extent we have. You can’t say a team hasn’t rebuilt when they have brought in the same amount of best 22 players as we have just because they done it in a different fashion. It sounds a lot more like you’re talking about bottoming out not rebuilding.
The biggest difference is age demographic

Compare us to say the Crows, who have relied on more mature players, now they are faced with the task of remaining relevant

Cats will be faced with the same problem at some stage, just like the current Swans list

Easiest thing to do is a rebuild if you are brave enough, this next phase is about being smart enough, last phase is the most difficult, it combines bravery and smarts to remain relevant, while constantly rejuvenating the list for sustainability
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
5,459
7,168
AFL Club
Carlton
Geez we’ve got some negative nancies (makes sense that Nancy’s plural has to end in -ies) dancing on the grave on what was the Carlton’s 2019 season. Simpson cooked! I just shakes me head.
I think it would be far more accurate to say we have some people who have different opinions and see things differently. Its amazing how many people get upset by a different opinion. Makes me laugh.
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
5,459
7,168
AFL Club
Carlton
I was at the game. All that brushing aside must have happened up the other end. I was surprised at his numbers for the game as it appeared to me that he’d had the ball on more occasions. Our best quarter for the match was the third and it seemed that Simmo was in the thick of it while we were having our best patch but maybe I was dreaming it. As for avoiding physical contact? Nup. It didn’t happen.
Yep, you were dreaming. Or maybe you define being in the thick of it as collecting one more disposal in the third quarter than he did in the first and second quarters. LOL. You know, you are allowed to say it when Simmo has a crap game.
 

blue healer

Premiership Player
Apr 25, 2010
4,989
6,573
wagga wagga
AFL Club
Carlton
Brisbane needed everything to go their way for this year to transpire as it has - I think the point of the comparison is to push back against some of the short term catastrophising that goes on after a poor loss and to show that, with all the stars aligning, anything is possible.

The point on trade collateral is annoying, especially since we should've been given a priority pick last year. On the bright side, we went harder in what appears to have been a much stronger draft last year, and should be able to get more value for future picks given the respective ladder positions.
How did we go harder in a stronger draft last year?

Walsh was a no brainer and the only reason we got Stocker was a swap of first round picks because we had traded ours out. Silvagni and Finbar were late and, I'd suggest, project picks given that clubs weren't exactly lining up to take them.

I don't disagree with any of those picks at this point but to say we went hard is a bit of a stretch.

As for everything going Brisbane's way this year, that's the luck of the competition. Richmond to name just one premier had a dream run with injuries in their year and those before.

I don't see the need to push back against those that "catastrophise". They are entitled to their opinion and I know from experience on here that I'm not going to change anyone's mind (just as I don't expect to change yours) so I no longer bother, merely post my alternate opinion.
 

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