Autopsy Rd 3 Insipid Loss to Carlton (Be Civil)

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BigRang

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Agree ^^^

Anyway, re- The Insipid loss etc...

*We still have a very young football team.

*Missing key personnel, particularly in our backline and particularly a couple big blokes that would have been more capable of manning up that big lump Harry. Pretty hard for poor old Brennan and Lukey, the blokes a monster, and he had Eddie blocking like a man possessed for him all game.

*Could have done with a proper key forward, but for whatever reason the fitness/coaching staff deemed Treacy (Only bloke left in the cupboard) not ready. Now don't get me wrong, I hope he gets a run sooner rather than later but I don't know all the ins and outs and if they reckon he's not ready then that's the way the cookie crumbles.

*Crippa went mad and we didn't have anyone that can go with him. Would have been Fyfe normally but he wasn't there, think about it rationally we don't have anyone else that could have stepped in and done what he does.

*Young mids got beaten, sh*t happens, see first point. They're gonna have ups and downs, good on J-Lo for leaving them in there to cop it I reckon, would have been worse to take them out and put Conca or whoever else in there...If they've got a bit of fire in the belly they won't have liked it and hopefully it stirs them right up. (This is also probs why Acres looks so terrible in a bad loss. Hard to look good on the outside when we're getting smashed on the inside.)

*We need the Lobster back. Whatever you think of him, he gets around the ground, gives a contest and an outlet, and he's not a stationary lump like Meek/Darcy when he goes forward. He'd have made Jones accountable instead of running off either of the said lumps and marking everything in sight.

*I was pretty excited about this season... But then we got our normal barrage of injuries, again think about it rationally, new sports guy wasn't going to be able to fix old sports guy's mess in his first 8 weeks... Shortened pre-season etc, plenty other sides getting crappy injuries to. We've had another couple of bad luck impact type ones, plus dead Hilly, but it looks like we've got few blokes coming back in so hopefully we're on the upward trend here now... Cross your fingers and toes on this I suppose... Anyway we we're never going to be world beaters this season we were all excited I know but at best we were probably going to be making up the numbers around 7/8th if we got a god run at it (See first point).

Anyway that's my 2cents... We all hate losing, but we really just need to think about it rationally, this year is still about development, it'll be the next couple of years that'll show where we're really at. For mine, when they're available we need to leave the young fellas in the side (Henry/Valente/Treacy/Sturt etc etc) It'll help build cohesion quicker.
 
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theGav56

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Agree ^^^

Anyway, re- The Insipid loss etc...

*We still have a very young football team.

*Missing key personnel, particularly in our backline and particularly a couple big blokes that would have been more capable of manning up that big lump Harry. Pretty hard for poor old Brennan and Lukey, the blokes a monster, and he had Eddie blocking like a man possessed for him all game.

*Could have done with a proper key forward, but for whatever reason the fitness/coaching staff deemed Treacy (Only bloke left in the cupboard) not ready. Now don't get me wrong, I hope he gets a run sooner rather than later but I don't know all the ins and outs and if they reckon he's not ready then that's the way the cookie crumbles.

*Crippa went mad and we didn't have anyone that can go with him. Would have been Fyfe normally but he wasn't there, think about it rationally we don't have anyone else that could have stepped in and done what he does.

*Young mids got beaten, sh*t happens, see first point. They're gonna have ups and downs, good on J-Lo for leaving them in there to cop it I reckon, would have been worse to take them out and put Conca or whoever else in there...If they've got a bit of fire in the belly they won't have liked it and hopefully it stirs them right up. (This is also probs why Acres looks so terrible in a bad loss. Hard to look good on the outside when we're getting smashed on the inside.)

*We need the Lobster back. Whatever you think of him, he gets around the ground, gives a contest and an outlet, and he's not a stationary lump like Meek/Darcy when he goes forward. He'd have made Jones accountable instead of running off either of the said lumps and marking everything in sight.

*I was pretty excited about this season... But then we got our normal barrage of injuries, again think about it rationally, new sports guy wasn't going to be able to fix old sports guy's mess in his first 8 weeks... Shortened pre-season etc, plenty other sides getting crappy injuries to. We've had another couple of bad luck impact type ones, plus dead Hilly, but it looks like we've got few blokes coming back in so hopefully we're on the upward trend here now... Cross your fingers and toes on this I suppose... Anyway we we're never going to be world beaters this season we were all excited I know but at best we were probably going to be making up the numbers around 7/8th if we got a god run at it (See first point).

Anyway that's my 2cents... We all hate losing, but we really just need to think about it rationally, this year is still about development, it'll be the next couple of years that'll show where we're really at. For mine, when they're available we need to leave the young fellas in the side (Henry/Valente/Treacy/Sturt etc etc) It'll help build cohesion quicker.
Re Cripps, we certainly could have played Blakely ahead of Henry, and we could have played Conca in the midfield. It was pretty obvious Cripps and co we’re going to come out hard and we left our midfielders exposed.

Re the forward line, the issue is the total misreading of the rucks ability to play as a KPF as opposed to being the third tall in a functional forward line. Or, to accept that we are going to play a small forward line and not bomb it long to the ruck which resulted in some of the easiest interceptions I can recall. Instead we seemed to expect them to play the same as Lobb.
 

theGav56

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We're still a year from that real sweet spot of contending.
Average games of 70-100
Average age of 25/26
Contending for what? Are you suggesting in a year we are looking to finish top 2 or perhaps top 4, because that is what contending for a premiership looks like?
 

BigRang

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Re Cripps, we certainly could have played Blakely ahead of Henry, and we could have played Conca in the midfield. It was pretty obvious Cripps and co we’re going to come out hard and we left our midfielders exposed.

Re the forward line, the issue is the total misreading of the rucks ability to play as a KPF as opposed to being the third tall in a functional forward line. Or, to accept that we are going to play a small forward line and not bomb it long to the ruck which resulted in some of the easiest interceptions I can recall. Instead we seemed to expect them to play the same as Lobb.
Yes, we could have played Blakely, but he's not the answer long term. Yes, we could have put Conca in there but he's not the answer long term. The answer is Brayshaw/Cera/Serong/Henry etc, and by taking them out and putting in Blakely/Conca etc you're robbing Peter (long term answer) to pay Paul (short term answer). Like I said I think it's good they didn't pull them out, they got to stay in there and get beaten by a midfield which on paper doesn't look any better. Hopefully its pu a rocket up them. Also, I think Henry needs to stay in and get up to speed with the speed of the game.

RE - the forward line, we don't have one. Which is probably why they played 2 rucks. Like I said I'd say either Treacy isn't/wasn't ready or they decided to back in the blokes that got the job done the week prior. Hard call to make either way when the cupboard is bare and the side had a good win the week prior. Now we've lost, and some blokes will be available for selection that haven't been so hopefully we see some changes made.
Like I said in my earlier post it's just my 2cents. I'm not going to go back and forth because this is an Internet forum and it's stupid to do so. Think rationally about where the age and development of the side is plus availability of key personnel, you'll most likely come to the conclusion that we're still going to have good and bad days. We're not Richmond/Geelong/WB etc. And probably 1-2 years away from being able to back up every week and cover ins/outs like the established sides do.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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I cannot believe in the 21st century that people still have their head in the sand regarding sexual harassment. It does not matter if what was said was "intended" as a "joke". There is absolutely not excuse for one employee to make a comment about another employee's body. No. Excuse. At. All.

That a payout was made is enough of an admission for me.
 

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mightymouse75

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The umps rolled us in the second quarter
Wheels fell off pretty quickly with 6 or so unanswered goals mostly resulting from bullshit midfield frees moved quickly to a backline still in bewilderment.
Hey how did I get back to the Ross The Boss thread????
You are stuck in a loop 😂
 

theGav56

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Yes, we could have played Blakely, but he's not the answer long term. Yes, we could have put Conca in there but he's not the answer long term. The answer is Brayshaw/Cera/Serong/Henry etc, and by taking them out and putting in Blakely/Conca etc you're robbing Peter (long term answer) to pay Paul (short term answer). Like I said I think it's good they didn't pull them out, they got to stay in there and get beaten by a midfield which on paper doesn't look any better. Hopefully its pu a rocket up them. Also, I think Henry needs to stay in and get up to speed with the speed of the game.

RE - the forward line, we don't have one. Which is probably why they played 2 rucks. Like I said I'd say either Treacy isn't/wasn't ready or they decided to back in the blokes that got the job done the week prior. Hard call to make either way when the cupboard is bare and the side had a good win the week prior. Now we've lost, and some blokes will be available for selection that haven't been so hopefully we see some changes made.
Like I said in my earlier post it's just my 2cents. I'm not going to go back and forth because this is an Internet forum and it's stupid to do so. Think rationally about where the age and development of the side is plus availability of key personnel, you'll most likely come to the conclusion that we're still going to have good and bad days. We're not Richmond/Geelong/WB etc. And probably 1-2 years away from being able to back up every week and cover ins/outs like the established sides do.
By thinking rationally, I really don’t see it like that. Why do we play Mundy? He’s just as unlikely to be there when we are contending. But the support, especially physical support, allows the emerging midfielders to actually be competitive. They can learn all the lessons dished out to them last weekend but also have a big body (such as Blakely or Duman, or Conca) standing alongside them, taking some of the hits.

And sure our forward line was hung out to dry, but if you are playing a physically underdeveloped player like Henry for development, putting him in that kind of situation verges on irresponsible. Regardless it is the job of our coaches to develop strategies to mitigate team inadequacies. If you put a team of small forwards on the park you need to play to their advantage, and we simply did not. We kicked it to Darcy who was no match for a bog ordinary, but much more mobile KPD who did whatever he liked.
 

FreoRicci

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Yes, we could have played Blakely, but he's not the answer long term. Yes, we could have put Conca in there but he's not the answer long term. The answer is Brayshaw/Cera/Serong/Henry etc, and by taking them out and putting in Blakely/Conca etc you're robbing Peter (long term answer) to pay Paul (short term answer). Like I said I think it's good they didn't pull them out, they got to stay in there and get beaten by a midfield which on paper doesn't look any better. Hopefully its pu a rocket up them. Also, I think Henry needs to stay in and get up to speed with the speed of the game.

RE - the forward line, we don't have one. Which is probably why they played 2 rucks. Like I said I'd say either Treacy isn't/wasn't ready or they decided to back in the blokes that got the job done the week prior. Hard call to make either way when the cupboard is bare and the side had a good win the week prior. Now we've lost, and some blokes will be available for selection that haven't been so hopefully we see some changes made.
Like I said in my earlier post it's just my 2cents. I'm not going to go back and forth because this is an Internet forum and it's stupid to do so. Think rationally about where the age and development of the side is plus availability of key personnel, you'll most likely come to the conclusion that we're still going to have good and bad days. We're not Richmond/Geelong/WB etc. And probably 1-2 years away from being able to back up every week and cover ins/outs like the established sides do.
That’s a poor outlook. If just playing the youth, they’re going to get smashed. Why play Mundy then. There has to be some experience, mature bodies inside to help out. Conca does so well in this, and Blakely is actually a good defensive mid. It’s important to keep the mature guys around the centre, to have leadership and support. Feel this is exactly why we’ve struggled for a few years in that De Boer, Barlow, Crowley, Suban etc were moved on in one per two pre seasons. Suddenly there’s nothing in the engine room and Fyfe is the mature guy, who already gets smashed around.
 

Piggy Smalls

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Contending for what? Are you suggesting in a year we are looking to finish top 2 or perhaps top 4, because that is what contending for a premiership looks like?
Richmond turned it around about that quickly. So did Collingwood. Prior to that so did West Coast. I was at derby 1 in 2015 and if you’d told me West Coast would make the granny I’d have laughed in your face.

There’s no reason we can’t IF we can get something close to our best 22 fit and firing more the majority of a season.
 

Piggy Smalls

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Contending for finals.
which you need to do to be able to contend for a flag.

I had us 8-12th this year.
Case in point would be Bulldogs 2016. Just made the 8 off a big loss to us in R23 and then went into beast mode (or was it throw mode...)

Either way it goes to show that anyone can win it in September as long as they’re in it.
 

BigRang

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By thinking rationally, I really don’t see it like that. Why do we play Mundy? He’s just as unlikely to be there when we are contending. But the support, especially physical support, allows the emerging midfielders to actually be competitive. They can learn all the lessons dished out to them last weekend but also have a big body (such as Blakely or Duman, or Conca) standing alongside them, taking some of the hits.

And sure our forward line was hung out to dry, but if you are playing a physically underdeveloped player like Henry for development, putting him in that kind of situation verges on irresponsible. Regardless it is the job of our coaches to develop strategies to mitigate team inadequacies. If you put a team of small forwards on the park you need to play to their advantage, and we simply did not. We kicked it to Darcy who was no match for a bog ordinary, but much more mobile KPD who did whatever he liked.
We'll agree to disagree about the mids I think...
Mundy is a different kettle of fish because 1. He's actually good. 2.He's probably as much an on-field coach as he is a good footballer and as such can impart wisdom on the fly.

Forward line got hung out to dry because midfield got smashed. Midfield gets beaten = crap delivery to forward line, we could have had Gary Ablett Snr down there trying to sit on blokes heads and it wouldn't have mattered, let alone a lumbering lump of a ruckman.
This is why I hope we see some changes this week to bolster midfield and forward line. Delivery/Fucntion will *look* like it has improved without actually improving.

Anyway like I said it's just my 2cents and I'm not going to go back and forth on an Internet forum. It won't get any of us anywhere.
 

BigRang

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That’s a poor outlook. If just playing the youth, they’re going to get smashed. Why play Mundy then. There has to be some experience, mature bodies inside to help out. Conca does so well in this, and Blakely is actually a good defensive mid. It’s important to keep the mature guys around the centre, to have leadership and support. Feel this is exactly why we’ve struggled for a few years in that De Boer, Barlow, Crowley, Suban etc were moved on in one per two pre seasons. Suddenly there’s nothing in the engine room and Fyfe is the mature guy, who already gets smashed around.
RE - Mundy see above post. 1. He's actually good. 2. As much an on-field coach as he is a player so he can impart wisdom on the fly. Very much worth having in a young side. Conca/Blakely can to do what Mundy does.

2. Poor outlook. Wel exxcccuuuuseeee me for not thinking the four horseman are approaching and the apocalypse is nigh!! Fair dinkum, we are a YOUNG football side.
We will not challenge for top four/two this year. We were never going to. If you thought we were going to then I suggest you have a look at your own outlook. This year is STILL about development.
Like I've said a few times now, IT'S JUST MY 2CENST. I'm just looking at things rationally and I believe that NOT throwing the toys out of the cot and whacking Conca/Blakely and co into the midfield was a god thing. Let the young fellas learn that they're going to have to take a few hits and stand up for themselves if they want to be legitimate A-graders. And if Cerra wants the big pay rise that he's probably holding out for then he'll have to perform a bit better than that.
 

Madas

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100% it does. Why you think Kennedy is often free leading to the ball. Smart forward organisation. Darling does it, Ryan does it. It’s part of the forward craft
Exactly !
It's the smart ( but dirty ) way to play the modern game
If you can't beat em ........
 

Wigarus

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I cannot believe in the 21st century that people still have their head in the sand regarding sexual harassment. It does not matter if what was said was "intended" as a "joke". There is absolutely not excuse for one employee to make a comment about another employee's body. No. Excuse. At. All.

That a payout was made is enough of an admission for me.
So the coach can't tell a player s/he's too fat or a recruiter can't say s/he isn't tall enough?

What an absurd thing to say.
 

Purple Madness

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So the coach can't tell a player s/he's too fat or a recruiter can't say s/he isn't tall enough?

What an absurd thing to say.
Bit off topic but I couldn't help myself.

Just quickly, blokes get victimised and sexually harassed every single day in the workplace but it's not as newsworthy as the other way round.
 

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